The Fattening of Thailand

[robblok]

Nobody is talking about banning foods.

With one exception. As an ingredient TRANSFATS should not be legal in manufactured foods or chain restaurants.

Typical hysterical reaction / SCARE TACTICS / right wing moralistic argument about an imaginary perfect ideal of perfect choice for the individual totally IGNORING the corporate structures that are poisoning our populations in hidden insidious ways. Pumping the cheapest and most widely available foods with stuff almost guaranteed to make people sick. Not providing clear warning labels. You can educate all you like but if the FOOD ENVIRONMENT for the masses is the way that it is and doesn't improve and only government can FORCE the big food industry players to make it improve, that will be a small dent at most.

Also the best bang for the baht is in PREVENTION. Before more people become obese. Once people become obese, it becomes very hard and the long term success rates are low. Plus people have already had their health damaged.

They are talking about altering and banning foods and so are you.

I can live with Trans-fats not being allowed to be used. Problem is it is a first step once they start banning stuff.. who knows where it ends.

You always talk about others who are to blame.. with the exception of kids i don't agree. I don't know about a single fat guy who woke up fat. I had to buy jeans that were bigger and bigger its not like you are not warned at some point.

Of course its much easier to blame big cooperation (and yes they are partly to blame) but obese doing it to themselves. I seen many many examples here of old friends who are overweight know it and and refuse to eat less as they enjoy food. (their choice)

(kids excluded)

You can prevent obesity by targeting them when they reach certain weights or better yet waist sizes. (before obese of course) and from that point on certain things are forbidden for them. This way healthy people don't have to be punished and obese are helped.

[robblok]

Just in the 5 years I've been in Thailand, I've noticed an increase in overweight Thais.

As for the "experts" who are now saying that sugar is the culprit, IMO they are falling into the same trap that "experts" in the 70s and 80s did when they tried to vilify fat. It's not about one particular food group so much as it is the amount of calories and exercise.

Human beings are generalists when it comes to food. We can thrive on almost anything, which helps explain why our population keeps growing exponentially.

You should read up on insulin resistance and carbs (sugar) Its a big problem.

[Jingthing]

Please stop lying.

Not talking about banning foods, except for the proven poison transfats.

Talking about pressuring big food industry to manufacture more healthy foods and to provide clear WARNING LABELS with specific risks when they include high levels of ingredients known to be obesity promoting (such as sugars).

The slippery slope argument, again, pure old fashioned CHEAP FEAR tactics.

It's like the morons who say you can't allow gay marriage because then people will want to marry their dogs.

Wrong. Totally wrong.

There are many little things that can help.

In the US there have been experiments with subsidizing purchases of fresh fruit and veg for poor families with kids showing risk of obesity. So far these programs show promise.

There is no one simple answer.

Education is great ... but it is not enough.

It is especially hard for poorer people without access to kitchens or affordable accessible healthy foods.

Thailand has access to low cost fresh fruit and veg for the masses (unlike the USA). But it seems most poor URBAN Thai people don't really have kitchens (or perhaps no time to properly cook anyway), so they eat mostly on the street or at 7-11. It would be hard to regulate street food, but the big food companies that stock 7-11 could be regulated.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Please stop lying.

Not talking about banning foods, except for the proven poison transfats.

Talking about pressuring big food industry to manufacture more healthy foods and to provide clear WARNING LABELS with specific risks when they include high levels of ingredients known to be obesity promoting (such as sugars).

The slippery slope argument, again, pure old fashioned CHEAP FEAR tactics.

It's like the morons who say you can't allow gay marriage because then people will want to marry their dogs.

Wrong. Totally wrong.

There are many little things that can help.

In the US there have been experiments with subsidizing purchases of fresh fruit and veg for poor families with kids showing risk of obesity. So far these programs show promise.

There is no one simple answer.

Education is great ... but it is not enough.

100% agree that it should be on the labels and a warning is nice too. Just don't go for simple banning. Though in case of Transfats i can go for it.

The slippery slope argument is not a fear tactic its proven that once certain things are started it goes on and on and on. So I feel I am in my right to be a bit skeptical.

How long since you have been back to the US ? I know that now in the Netherlands where I have been for the last weeks far more healthy alternatives are available as before. So here clearly a change has been started. I was amazed at all the new healthy stuff and fresh products now in the supermarkets.

This all without banning.. but yes there are more rules that certain items need to be put on as ingredients (and im all for that that is part of education)

[inbangkok]

I notice way more overweight people (especially children) now than when I lived here in 2010. This is just my personal observation obviously...........

[Jingthing]

I am not talking about overpriced products for the elites. The elites indeed can take care of themselves.

Talking about the masses and most people are poorer, in the USA, Thailand, most countries. The problem is the cheapest and easiest foods to get (7-11 in Thailand; fast food like McDonalds in the U.S.) are highly processed and the most horrible for health.

Putting labels on food that are clear with large health warnings is ONLY something GOVERNMENT can make companies do. Duh! They will never do that voluntarily.

Right wing ideologues are so afraid of government and want to make everyone else irrationally afraid of government. It is true big government can be a force of great evil. But for some things, like forced food warnings, and building roads, it is the government or it does not get done.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

I am not talking about overpriced products for the elites. The elites indeed can take care of themselves.

Talking about the masses and most people are poorer, in the USA, Thailand, most countries. The problem is the cheapest and easiest foods to get (7-11 in Thailand; fast food like McDonalds in the U.S.) are highly processed and the most horrible for health.

Stop lying.. did you see the prices in the Dutch supermarket ?

Also when did you get back to the US that you have such in depth knowledge ?

Anyway off to enjoy my day

[Jingthing]

Ignoring that noise, you know, economics is a factor in all this.

As said fruits and veg is cheap enough in Thailand, but so many people don't have the kitchens or time to cook it.

If they did cook it, would they douse it in sugar and oil anyway?

For processed foods, they are cheap foods.

They are made with cheap ingredients. Also high profit ... but still cheap to buy.

They've got artificial stuff in there giving a long shelf life.

Bread products for example, even though Thais don't eat much bread.

Modern bread stays "fresh" a long time.

Healthy bread goes stale in a day.

Modern bread is obviously economically a better model for manufacturers and cheaper for consumers.

Poor people want to fill their stomachs. Thailand doesn't have very much starvation these days, but still filling the stomach (cheap and tasty) is a priority over longer term health risks for most people.

Thailand being a rice culture has an opportunity to switch away from WHITE rice (basically converts to SUGAR) to at least half milled rice.

For that to happen, there would need to be a major cultural shift.

How does that happen? Not magically.

You can't even order it at most restaurants.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[laislica]

it is high amounts of animal protein that is causing the problem here and everywhere else.

No.

For those without a medical problem, there should be a fat tax

Tax rebate for those maintaining a healthy weight.

I think that There is no simple answer to this point, I will try to simplify by taking short cuts.....

(Also ignoring diabetes etc)

If you ate a healthful breakfast, eggs bacon mushrooms, tomatoes, black pudding, steak etc.

You would feel full and stop eating. The food would be digested slowly and you would not be hungry again for many hours.

BUT

Take sugar in your coffee, also eat toast, orange juice, hash browns, fried potatoes, cereals etc. and

Your body will release insulin to reduce the sugar spike in your blood.

Now the excess blood sugar is stored as fat.

At this point it does not matter what the source of the calories is, protein, carbs, fructose, alcohol.

Digestion of the food continues to attempt to push blood sugar high and your body responds by releasing insulin.

When insulin is present, excess calories are stored as fat.

It is as if there are two processes consuming your food.

You and your fat cells.

Your body is good at storing fat, and the food is used up quickly.

Now despite a huge meal, you feel hungry again far too soon.

This causes you to consume more calories than you need and you steadily gain fat.

As an example, Xmas dinner. Eat huge, feel bloated for a short while and then hungry again.

The solution may be to follow a food combining diet for a month or two.

Ie, segregate meals into either protein, carbohydrate or fruit and never mix these in a single meal.

Green veg can be eaten with both protein and carbohydrate meal types.

After eating protein and fat meal, wait about 4 hours before eating again.

For carbohydrates, wait about 2 hours.

The wait after fruit is very short, say 30 minutes.

It's not hard to do even if eating out.

I cured chronic heartburn this way and lost a lot of fat.

Sorry for glossing over many scientific facts but I hope that some will do their own research and learn more and also get a grip on the "Fat Beast" that we have been saddled with.

Good luck

[laislica]

Nobody is talking about banning foods.

With one exception. As an ingredient TRANSFATS should not be legal in manufactured foods or chain restaurants.

Typical hysterical reaction / SCARE TACTICS / right wing moralistic argument about an imaginary perfect ideal of perfect choice for the individual totally IGNORING the corporate structures that are poisoning our populations in hidden insidious ways. Pumping the cheapest and most widely available foods with stuff almost guaranteed to make people sick. Not providing clear warning labels. You can educate all you like but if the FOOD ENVIRONMENT for the masses is the way that it is and doesn't improve and only government can FORCE the big food industry players to make it improve, that will be a small dent at most.

Also the best bang for the baht is in PREVENTION. Before more people become obese. Once people become obese, it becomes very hard and the long term success rates are low. Plus people have already had their health damaged.

What many do not know is that transfats block essential fatty acids.

The transfats looks like a key to a lock that the essential fatty acid fits but the transfats enters the lock and snaps off thus preventing the lock from being opened by the correct key.

I hope that this metafor makes sense.

What the transfat does is to stop essential chemical processes from completing.

This leads to one becoming "run down" and eventually very sick.

[Sena Dave]

" you ate a healthful breakfast, eggs bacon mushrooms, tomatoes, black pudding, steak etc.

You would feel full and stop eating. The food would be digested slowly and you would not be hungry again for many hours.
BUT
Take sugar in your coffee, also eat toast, orange juice, hash browns, fried potatoes, cereals etc. and
Your body will release insulin to reduce the sugar spike in your blood.
Now the excess blood sugar is stored as fat."

Spot on , sugar gives you a blood sugar spike after insulin has been released and turned into energy or fat your blood sugar reduces and you feel hungry again. Carbs work in exactly the same way. More meat , vegetables , and yes Fat , and no sugar or Starchy cereal carbs, you can eat high fibre carbs as they are digested in a different way to processed carbs , drink only water. Finding out the GI , of food is a good way to see how this works

[spidermike007]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I don't really care how fat the adult males get, as long as the women continue to look really good in a skirt. I do agree that the children need some guidance.

But the women are getting larger. I am astonished by the number of big women I see these days. Even when I am cruising around, the bars and massage shops are loaded with large women. Who hires them anyway? Oh, this 185 pounder is a good one, I think she should work here. The diets are changing. 7/11 meals for 40 baht. KFC, McDonald's, chips, candy, etc. are becoming a lot more popular than they used to be.

[laislica]

Ignoring that noise, you know, economics is a factor in all this.

As said fruits and veg is cheap enough in Thailand, but so many people don't have the kitchens or time to cook it.

If they did cook it, would they douse it in sugar and oil anyway?

For processed foods, they are cheap foods.

They are made with cheap ingredients. Also high profit ... but still cheap to buy.

They've got artificial stuff in there giving a long shelf life.

Bread products for example, even though Thais don't eat much bread.

Modern bread stays "fresh" a long time.

Healthy bread goes stale in a day.

Modern bread is obviously economically a better model for manufacturers and cheaper for consumers.

Poor people want to fill their stomachs. Thailand doesn't have very much starvation these days, but still filling the stomach (cheap and tasty) is a priority over longer term health risks for most people.

Thailand being a rice culture has an opportunity to switch away from WHITE rice (basically converts to SUGAR) to at least half milled rice.

For that to happen, there would need to be a major cultural shift.

How does that happen? Not magically.

You can't even order it at most restaurants.

Please Rob and JS, I think you are both in the same book, if not the same page!

We bought a house in a nice Moo ban. No kitchen, we had one built.

I am now convincing my wife to reduce the use of sugar in home cooking!

My wife is over fifty and believes that unless she has a diet high in carbs, she will " have no power".

We are in Spain at the moment and she is reducing carb intake on average, quite well.

She is noting that her weight is also falling whilst she still has power!

This is a slow process, to overcome years of custom and practice, not to mention all the lying adverts that the Thais are bombarded with.

So rather than ban the use of transfats, how about banning adverts for them and insisting on the warnings on the labels...

Never going to happen in this world of lobbyists etc.

One member on TVF refuses to accept any anecdotal evidence and is only open the "scientifically verified, peer reviewed" evidence.

The problem that I have with this is that funding can and I believe does, skew results to favour those who provide funds.

Earlier, a poster referred to the "science" of the 70/80's, yes, just who should we trust.Who tells the truth?

In the meantime, we can use our eyes.

To gain about 8Kg over 10 years takes about 20 additional calories per day.

Lifestyle changes are needed here and the easiest change is to reduce the intake of those lovely addictive carbs.

[leggo]

I live in Rayong, where they put so much sugar in the food it has nearly become inedible. There is so much obesity here it is quite alarming. The kids do no sport - oh I lie - they do go shopping mall,play video game! one of the great problems with the culture here is that parents don't know how to say no. Children are idolized (well they are pretty cute!) and as they grow up they end up like a lot of their counterparts in the west. It's tragic. I noticed last time I was in Saigon how few even fat people there were. They exercise every evening in the parks, they don't have the money for fast food etc. I am nearly seventy and weigh 69 kilos. I do about 7 hours exercise a week -I'm healthy , feel great and look forward to living at least another 15 years by which time I'll be completely gaga and they can turn off the switch then but these poor sods will be lucky if they make it to sixty! It's a crying shame that parents and schools who pretend to love these children so much are too lazy to do anything about it.

[hotsoup]

Came back from Tesco Lotus this pm. Forgot to buy bin bags. Went up to 7. Neither shop hardly sells anything that looks like food. Tesco Lotus appears to sell nothing but washing powder and crisps. 7/11 too. Said to Madame, not like this in France/UK. Answer: we have markets. Me: Yes the ones where you are required to buy a kilo of flies before you can get your hands on some meat. France has markets, still! Next question: Why can you buy great fruit in the street but no vegetables? Same answer. As far as I can make out most Thai people have given up on cooking, live out of plastic bags + a visit to MisterDonut and Swensens

[Robert24]

@hotsoup: I don't know where you stay but from my experience you can get all kind of vegetables at any market. Also those Tescos I go to have vegetables, fruit, fish, seafood and meat -basically the same you can get at any market. Just go to the first market next to your home and I guess you can get pretty much everything you need there. ( except the processed food you don't like)

[A1Str8]

I give credit when credit is due. Thai cuisine is unique for sure. But stop calling it healthy coz i am having a laugh attack.

What's healthy? The white rice? Or the sticky rice? Or the beloved pork that is on a steady diet of antibiotics? Or the inability to consume anything without a lot of added sugar? Or maybe the overcooked vegetables that have been rendered useless by getting rid of all the nutrients in it?

But hey. At least the gogo dancers are still slim and hot so i am off to see them.

Edited September 6, 2014 by A1Str8

[Jingthing]

...

Please Rob and JS, I think you are both in the same book, if not the same page!

...

I'm afraid not but thanks for trying.

[JSixpack]

But hey. At least the gogo dancers are still slim

Well, many of them still are.

and hot so i am off to see them.

Just got back.

[JSixpack]

Just in the 5 years I've been in Thailand, I've noticed an increase in overweight Thais.

Yep. And that's what the OP is all about.

It's not about one particular food group so much as it is the amount of calories and exercise.

No. You've been brainwashed into still believing the simplistic calories in/calories out theory blessed since the 60s or so. You have far to go.

The first step is to learn that all calories aren't treated equally. Better go read Good Calories, Bad Calories. Or watch the vids that JT gave above or this one:

A couple more to educate you:

Human beings are generalists when it comes to food.

Pigs, you mean?

We can thrive on almost anything, which helps explain why our population keeps growing exponentially.

The point is that large segments of populations, here Thai, ain't thriving by being obese and diabetic. Havin' babies is a different matter.

Edited September 6, 2014 by JSixpack

[laislica]

Just in the 5 years I've been in Thailand, I've noticed an increase in overweight Thais.

Yep. And that's what the OP is all about.

It's not about one particular food group so much as it is the amount of calories and exercise.

No. You've been brainwashed into still believing the simplistic calories in/calories out theory blessed since the 60s or so. You have far to go.

The first step is to learn that all calories aren't treated equally. Better go read Good Calories, Bad Calories. Or watch the vids that JT gave above or this one:

A couple more to educate you:

Human beings are generalists when it comes to food.

Pigs, you mean?

These are wonderful videos and a must watch as far as I am concerned.

Don´t forget Cereal Killers Don't Fear Fat.

Another great and Google can find it.

[JSixpack]

No. You've been brainwashed into still believing the simplistic calories in/calories out theory blessed since the 60s or so. You have far to go.

The first step is to learn that all calories aren't treated equally. Better go read Good Calories, Bad Calories. Or watch the vids that JT gave above or this one:

A couple more to educate you:

These are wonderful videos and a must watch as far as I am concerned.

Don´t forget .Cereal Killers Don't Fear Fat

Another great and Google can find it.

Found it, will take a look!

The classic indictment of sugar:

If you must pick out "one particular food group," that's it.

[coolkat]

The more affluent the people are the more they will spend on unhealthy food and get overweight or obese.

Look at the difference between Malaysia 44% obese, and Viet Nam or Cambodia, 10 to 12% obesity.

Malaysia being the richest country in the area Viet Nam or Cambodia the poorest.

America and Europe still have not found any remedy to the problem, although they are spending billions to educate the people as to what healthy eating is.

Sometimes, wealth doesn't help our health issues and I don't foresee any change for the future.

I read that in the US it's the poor people who are obese due to the poor food choices that they have. Their food are those poor in nutrional value but high in fats, sodium etc.

Vietnam and combodia are poorer than malaysia. I don't know but there is a difference between being so poor you cannot eat anything and poor that you can only afford poor quality food.

[coolkat]

Btw get on an exercise program you lazy nuggs.

I have completed p-90x3 home fitness program that you can do at home and am now doing a modified program of p-90x3, focus t-25 and stronglifts.

[Scott]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I don't really care how fat the adult males get, as long as the women continue to look really good in a skirt. I do agree that the children need some guidance.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I don't really care how fat the females get as long as the men continue to look really good.

Like you, I do agree that the children need a lot of guidance. Schools also need to help with good nutrition and parents need to more closely supervise snacking habits.

[belg]

i was obese in my home country, work work work and almost no excercise...

came to thailand, no work anymore and exercise daily , even if it is just walking the dog 2x per day for 30 minutes

normal weight now, but the wife is ballooning

[robblok]

...Please Rob and JS, I think you are both in the same book, if not the same page!

...

I'm afraid not but thanks for trying.

Not on the same page at all I am here in the Netherlands where i see healthy alternatives because of education.

I also have seen the prices here and ge has not saying this is for the elites. Meaning expensive, but its not. I asked him how long since he has been in the USA as i find the changes in the Netherlands big on those 3 years who knows hos info is outdated. He did not even awnser so probably did not go back for a long time.

My point is that education without banning is working and rellies on self helping instead of blaming others and staying in a victim role.

You latisca too charge yourself and changed. Nobody forced you... nobody banned your foods.

It is important that ingredients are put on labels. Its also important that there are warnings but after that its freedom of choice. It works in the Netherlands so it could work elsewhere too.

Its better to take charge yourself instead of waiting for the government to do it. But its easier to blame someone else instead of yourself.

Even in thailand vegetables are cjeap and everyone has access to them. Meat is more expensive but still available. Maybe taking eggs will help.

I am just against banning though transfats could be banned. I see no advantages to taking them. It certainly should be real clear from packaging if there are transfats in something.

[Jingthing]

Again, stop the lies.

Never suggested banning any food except the ingredient of transfats when put into manufactured and chain restaurant foods.

Who goes to the store seeking a bag of transfat poison? Nobody, but they get it anyway.

As far as responding to baiting questions about my recent travel experience, forget about it. None of your business, don't ask again, just because I don't respond to all rude baits is no indication of anything except I don't appreciate rude baiting personal questions.

Netherlands? Oh please, a small rich nation with a welfare state government.

Hardly comparable in any way to the USA and Thailand.

Total waste of energy to "debate" with someone who thinks the global obesity epidemic can be solved 100 percent with morality lectures about personal responsibility (as if social policies, government policies, food culture, food economics, corporate policies, food environment, etc. have nothing to do with it), that is ridiculous, but will respond if lies about my position are posted. Again, not in favor of banning foods.

That morality is everything POV is more about an irrational ideological position than logic and medical science.

It's also idiotic from a social policy POV, higher obesity rates have a great social and financial cost for entire societies.

Societies need to tackle this more profoundly than just blaming the people effected.

You've heard the morality lectures all your life. It's old hat. Something from Granny's time.Granny didn't live in the modern FOOD ENVIRONMENT.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Again, stop the lies.

Never suggested banning any food except the ingredient of transfats when put into manufactured and chain restaurant foods.

Who goes to the store seeking a bag of transfat poison? Nobody, but they get it anyway.

As far as responding to baiting questions about my recent travel experience, forget about it. None of your business, don't ask again, just because I don't respond to all rude baits is no indication of anything except I don't appreciate rude baiting personal questions.

Netherlands? Oh please, a small rich nation with a welfare state government.

Hardly comparable in any way to the USA and Thailand.

Total waste of energy to "debate" with someone who thinks the global obesity epidemic can be solved 100 percent with morality lectures about personal responsibility (as if social policies, government policies, food culture, food economics, corporate policies, food environment, etc. have nothing to do with it), that is ridiculous, but will respond if lies about my position are posted. Again, not in favor of banning foods.

That morality is everything POV is more about an irrational ideological position than logic and medical science.

It's also idiotic from a social policy POV, higher obesity rates have a great social and financial cost for entire societies.

Societies need to tackle this more profoundly than just blaming the people effected.

You've heard the morality lectures all your life. It's old hat. Something from Granny's time.Granny didn't live in the modern FOOD ENVIRONMENT.

So your lying again. You dont know the prices ao how can you call it expensive. Typical JT calling others liars while doing the same.

Never backing anything up with proof. Reasonable question about when you were last in the USA as things tend to change. Seems you have not and are avoiding the question.

Banning ingredients is the same as banning foods. A ban is a ban and that is what your calling for.

No morality here but you as a obese guy always feel attacked. Anytime i suggest doing something yourself instead of waiting for others to act for you you feel attacked.

I see in the Netherlands that putting things on labels works thankts to the EU. I meal salads healthy ones cheaper as a burger at mc donalds. I see plenty of healthy alternatives that were not here 3 years ago. So education works here. Unless us Dutch are far superior to people from the USA it could work there too.

I back up claims with proof and signs of change you dont even disclose when you last been to the usa.

[robblok]

Does not mean im pro transfats, they can be banned. But if its on labels you can stop eating it before a ban comes into effect.

I almost never ever buy processed foods, i cook myself.