School has lost my degree

[ldiablo]

I need some help. I have been working at a school now for going on two years and last year i was informed by my coordinator that my director wanted to have my degree and transcript from my college which i glady supplied after having them mailed from Canada. Now i understand that it was very dumb of me but i did supply them with the original copies. I graduted in 1994 from Southern College in Orlando, Florida in 1994 with a bachelor's degree in Business. In 2001 my college was forced to close due to a scandal which involved the owner not being completely honest with student loans. Two weeks ago i went to business administration and informed them that i wanted to get a non b and a work permit in order to work legally in Thailand. She informed me that she needed my degree and transcript which i stated that they already had in my file. Upon lookng in my file it was basically empty, except for my resume and police clearence. The coordinator as well as the lady that looked after business administration and also the director are no longer at the school. The director has being transfered to Chaing Mai and the other two were fired.I have Thai teachers that remember me giving them the documents but they have obviously been misplaced. I had the lady phone the ex director and she claims she is unaware of this and i also phoned my od coordinator and have in writing that he passed them along to her. I have also approched the new director, coordinator and a board of executive with this issue and do not seem to be getting anywhere with this issue. I have checked with the Student National Clearinghouse and they do not have my old school on file. Anybody have any ideas. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Jeffrey346]

I know in America there are 3rd party companies that do degree verification. I'm sure Canada has similar business. The US companies should be able to verify a Canadian degree as well.

[arminbkk]

Ok, this remark is not going to help, but: why would you give away an important document such as a degree for another person to keep on file?

[Mario2008]

1 post containing illegal activity removed.

[MAMMartin]

Ok, this remark is not going to help, but: why would you give away an important document such as a degree for another person to keep on file?

the OP already said it was dumb - so why comment!

[MAMMartin]

Idiablo it sounds like you are ****ed, however in my experience in Thailand the certificate is most likely mis-placed rather than lost. almost no paperwork ever gets thrown away. With luck it is in a file somewhere. Why did they want it originally as that may help you to help them start looking in the possible places. You will need to "encourage" the staff or even offer to help them to even look beyond your personnel file.

[donmuang37]

I would offer a substantial reward (1 or 2,000 baht) to anyone who can find and return the degree and transcripts to you.

The suggestion about the degree verification companies could be pursued in parallel.

Good luck

[ldiablo]

I'm response to the question in regards to why they wanted my degree was simply that I had stated on my application that I had a degree and went my first year from teaching grade 5 to my second year teaching Toeic to grade 11 students which in turn increased my salary by 3000b per month so they wanted to ensure that I had the qualifications to justify the increase. I have searched the intenet and have found that many students from my college are having the same difficulties in trying to verify. Again, I know it was certainly not a smart thing to have done but in my country we respect other peoples important documents. I appreciate all your comments and input in regards to this matter.

[Suradit69]

Ok, this remark is not going to help, but: why would you give away an important document such as a degree for another person to keep on file?

In an indirect way, I think that was answered here: " I graduted [sic] in 1994 from Southern College in Orlando, Florida" --- "...which involved the owner not being completely honest with student loans. "

I expect a replacement degree could be purchased online for less than $10. Since the actual institution has already been shuttered, who would anyone check with to verify its authenticity?

Edited September 5, 2014 by Suradit69

[Tony125]

I'm response to the question in regards to why they wanted my degree was simply that I had stated on my application that I had a degree and went my first year from teaching grade 5 to my second year teaching Toeic to grade 11 students which in turn increased my salary by 3000b per month so they wanted to ensure that I had the qualifications to justify the increase. I have searched the intenet and have found that many students from my college are having the same difficulties in trying to verify. Again, I know it was certainly not a smart thing to have done but in my country we respect other peoples important documents. I appreciate all your comments and input in regards to this matter.

Learn from this, I am from USA and if asked for documents high school, college records, medical info I always give "Copy " You could have shown them the original and had them copy it but there was no reason ever to give anyone an original document for them to hold.

[zeichen]

I would check with the alumni committee from the school. They will still exist and they might know which company did the printing for the school. If you still have your transcripts, you might be able to get the printer to print your diploma again. If you have photocopies or a scan of it, might help also.

Though it hasn't happened to me, I know of 3 other teachers I have worked for that it did happen to. I empathize fully. Keep your cool though with Thai staff. Don't make them feel too guilty. Though I would probably be screaming my head off.

[exsas]

Surely to value the authenticity of the degree, the college which has closed will have passed details onto a third party.

In which case a duplicate certificate could be obtained

Edited September 5, 2014 by exsas

[Estrada]

Was it the Florida Southern College, which is the oldest private college in Florida founded in Orlando in 1883 and now in Lakeland? If so then give them the right title. If they cannot find your degree then your college must have been issuing worthless pieces of paper, or perhaps it was not a Degree merely a Diploma for a college course. Although my University closed down the new University that took over their work had all my records from 1972.

When we started checking hundreds of CVs at the height of the Diploma Mill Scam, we found 20% of applicants had bought their degrees on line based on "lifetime experience".

Edited September 5, 2014 by Estrada

[Estrada]

I would offer a substantial reward (1 or 2,000 baht) to anyone who can find and return the degree and transcripts to you.

The suggestion about the degree verification companies could be pursued in parallel.

Good luck

Good idea, from my experience offering a reward usually works.

[golfhacker]

The Ministry of Labor should have a copy of your degree in your file. Pop along with food gifts and see if someone can find it for you.

[Somtamnication]

Verification, what verification. The grey area here is that you can get one made up, if it can still be verified. If it cannot be verified, and few schools do that, you are still ok.

[Docno]

Was it the Florida Southern College, which is the oldest private college in Florida founded in Orlando in 1883 and now in Lakeland? If so then give them the right title. If they cannot find your degree then your college must have been issuing worthless pieces of paper, or perhaps it was not a Degree merely a Diploma for a college course. Although my University closed down the new University that took over their work had all my records from 1972.

When we started checking hundreds of CVs at the height of the Diploma Mill Scam, we found 20% of applicants had bought their degrees on line based on "lifetime experience".

Place still seems to exist despite name and location changes. In fact, they highlight they're continuity since the 19th century: http://www.flsouthern.edu/about.aspx

[tuvia]

From the description, I am guessing the OP means this place: http://www.oocities.org/helpscstudents/

There are some help links here for former students (but who knows how old), but if your job/visa depends on a bachelors degree, one problem you are going to have - if this is indeed the place - is that this "college" was only a junior college, and only granted associates degrees, not bachelors degrees.

[hgma]

I graduated in 88, then registered my degree with the Netherlands Association of Engineers, which in return issued a certificate with reference number of authentity.

In case of loss or damage.....refer to the number and eighter get a copy or confirmation on request.

In your case graduates are registered, so get back to the source and request confirmation or certificate of authentity.

Good luck

HGMA

[Greg Nixon]

I had this scumbag friend in China who told me all his credentials for teaching were false. He said he could have any document produced in Shanghai. He was actually a diver. I watched him teach. He didn't know what he was talking about. He asked other teachers what he should teach ? He taught everything from Kindergarten to University sometimes on the same day. What were his real credentials - he was white. His native tongue was English. No one checked his credentials. Should anyone decide to go this route get a degree from a prestigious University not from some obscure bankrupt college in Florida.

[iancnx]

If you have a work permit? The labour office will have a copy of your degree

[iamariva1957]

This degree bit here in Thai is worth buying extra 'originals' of the degree from your University/college before hand. It is easy to do. But remember one thing, though this poster graduated in '94 those of us who are older and left school back before the internet and laptops and where only Main Frames where being used if they had one or a connection to one... those 'copies' of our certificates/diplomas can more than likely only be found in paper form and then after a search through old fashioned files in some store room somewhere.

This has happened to me (Fordham University NY in '79). My dregree could not be found, though they had records of the money that I and my parents spent in tuition costs! So how did I get things done here in Thai... Well it was a mixture of bluff, guile, letters of recommendation, letters of explanation from the school, and given my age 57...life experience. In the end all was fine. It was not like I skipped through the 'system' here, but rather pleaded my case to the authorities that are not wanting to reject those who can teach or lecture but rather to keep those that might not have the experience or willingness to see things through. For just because you have a degree does not mean to anyone that you are somehow better at being a teacher than someone without but who does have the experience life teaches you and the willingness and can show the dedication it takes to be a teacher. For remember that an Art History degree does not an English teacher make.

The degree issue here is more along the lines of the cover charge to a club. If you can afford it then you are better class of patron for said club. But by showing that you have something more to offer than a piece of paper or parchment and show that you are serious and willing and driven... those things do mean more in the long run. It ain't easy, but it can be done. This is Thailand, and so the idea of anything can be done is not far from the truth.

[BruceMangosteen]

As a reminder, color copies are only 20 baht. I just made some myself. Anytime I apply for a WP or my degree is requested, I spend the 20 baht(plus 5 baht for thick paper/diploma thickness) and without fail, year after year, they say to me "we don't need the original" to wit I say to them, "I trust you with it, just don't lose it". If nothing else it speeds along the processes as some are impressed with color documents.

Edited September 8, 2014 by BruceMangosteen

[BruceMangosteen]

Was it the Florida Southern College, which is the oldest private college in Florida founded in Orlando in 1883 and now in Lakeland?

How could the OP not know the difference between "Southern" and "Florida Southern College" which as you know is in Lakeland. I've never heard of "Southern" College in Orlando and did spend some years there. There is a traditionally black "Southern" College/University but I think it's in another state.

As was indicated, if you don't know the name of your college/university and give the original degree/diploma to anyone, one has to question how you can be a teacher in any nation. It defies common sense. This entire thread could be one big rouse or whatever that word is for joke on others?

That said, I did meet another teacher in Thailand who claimed he went to Arizona State University and it low and behold was the University of Phoenix, an online University, and he didn't have a degree/diploma yet the Thai staff believed him. In another instance, an applicant showed up for an interview after saying she had a B.A. from an obscure University in Massachusetts. It turned out that another teacher had attended said University and asked her a few questions about the city etc.. She excused herself and left the property never to be heard from again. All of it again, a joke on the Thai people who have no clue on how to certify a degree and/or extract the information needed to verify someone's story about having same. Is it so difficult to remember the name of your University and that of a few professors and where you lived during your education?

[lostinisaan]

I always scan important documents in and send them to my e-mail address. So the OP never sent his degree to anybody to apply for a job?

Nor did the labor department have a copy of it?

And all in a sudden, after two years , he wants to apply for a work permit? But the bad director had misplaced his "real" degree.

I'm sorry, but something smelts fishy here.

Edited September 8, 2014 by lostinisaan

[A1Str8]

I know in America there are 3rd party companies that do degree verification. I'm sure Canada has similar business. The US companies should be able to verify a Canadian degree as well.

I second it. That's your only option.

Don't expect their help in finding it.

Matter of fact, it wasn't even them. You already asked them and they seem to know nothing about it(which doesn't come as a surprise to be honest).

[BruceMangosteen]

I always scan important documents in and send them to my e-mail address. So the OP never sent his degree to anybody to apply for a job?

Nor did the labor department have a copy of it?

And all in a sudden, after two years , he wants to apply for a work permit? But the bad director had misplaced his "real" degree.

I'm sorry, but something smelts fishy here.

The labor department IMHO would be a waste of time. So much paperwork flows through them, it's hard to imagine they are going to stop said flow and ques to search for a farangs original application and attachments. I don't recall in my province they even looked for degrees, but it was a few years ago. Definitely not on my most recent renewal.

Regarding making copies, in all honestly again, every year it seems I get asked for another complete set of copies of both the passport and visas along with all pages of the Work Permit. They submit them for funding is my educated guess and don't bother making a copy for the school files. In fact, I know this again to be true where I teach. I've seen the file on myself. I then of course removed all the documents and no one has noticed some three years later. Why did I remove them you wonder? Because I saw a student looking through the files of all the teachers. They were not kept in a secure place.

It's a tough world and a hard living. Make the best of it. Phones in the classroom have ruined most chances of actually teaching.

[ldiablo]

I always scan important documents in and send them to my e-mail address. So the OP never sent his degree to anybody to apply for a job?

Nor did the labor department have a copy of it?

And all in a sudden, after two years , he wants to apply for a work permit? But the bad director had misplaced his "real" degree.

I'm sorry, but something smelts fishy here.

What smelts fishy as you say, which I am sure you meant to say smells, (a wonder why Thai students suck in English having morons like you as a teacher).You don't know me or have any idea of the circumstances surrounding this matter so your lame ass opinion is of no value to this topic. Go back to your smelty fishies and leave the conversation to people that can actually put together a proper sentence. Edited September 9, 2014 by ldiablo

[WonnabeBiker]

so sorry for the OP's loss and troubles. Can't say I'm surprised!

I've had to pay >5,000 Baht to have my degree sent over by DHL from the UK. But then, there are 'teachers' here who can't even hold a conversation. Some weren't a single day at a university. Who checks their degrees?!? Oh, they are looking for something splendid and expensive looking ?!?

They really need to start verifying degrees in the interest of those who have genuine ones. Not checking certain countries' degrees can't go on as before, unless the TCT wants to lose the rest of its credibility.

[WonnabeBiker]

Sorry for your loss and the trouble this has and will cause you.

When will they look beyond some nice looking certificate? How about investigating degrees of certain African universities?!? A nice looking certificate is all they want and need? Mmm. They talk national security and then this!