Graft fight a 'national priority'

[gemguy]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

True .....I would not argue other wise.

But remember it is always negotiable when done in a amiable way.

Some people would pay the officer and then ask for his cell phone number and tell him they may need his assistance at some time in the future.

As in: "Nice to meet you officer ...can I rely on your help at sometime in the future...maybe?"

Although having police officer ( acquaintances ) can be a liability somewhere down the line, usually they would be more of an asset and helpful if you do run into problems at a future date.

It is like making friends with the immigration officials, rather than believing you should always stay clear of them is the better policy.

[Keesters]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

True .....I would not argue other wise.

But remember it is always negotiable when done in a amiable way.

Some people would pay the officer and then ask for his cell phone number and tell him they may need his assistance at some time in the future.

As in: "Nice to meet you officer ...can I rely on your help at sometime in the future...maybe?"

Although having police officer ( acquaintances ) can be a liability somewhere down the line, usually they would be more of an asset and helpful if you do run into problems at a future date.

It is like making friends with the immigration officials, rather than believing you should always stay clear of them is the better policy.

Personally I have no interest in making friends with a police or immigration officer the same as I have no interest in making friends with a 7/11 cashier. They all move along too quickly to other, mostly green(back)er, pastures for them to be helpful in the future. Not that I need help anyway. Treat each and every one of them with respect and you'll, generally, get respect back.

[Sarathi]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

I thought they take the fine to the station and pay it in for you - all part of the service. No?

[Keesters]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

I thought they take the fine to the station and pay it in for you - all part of the service. No?

Brilliant. Never thought of it like that.

[brucec64]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

A very valid point. Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism, and there were cries of indignation over this "evil practise", yet not a single dissenting comment from the same group when the NCPO, NLA, the Cabinet, and soon the reform council, were formed almost excusively based on nepostism and cronyism. But I guess in this case it's the "good" nepotism and cronysm, when the "right" people are selected.

[Keesters]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

[Larry001]

Good luck. Can send out a loud message by arresting some of the recent politicians and Provincial Governors and charging them immediately. Will not be too difficult to get the necessary evidence. Hasn't Suthep disappeared off the scene??? ha ha ha. Coward he is.

[brucec64]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

[spidermike007]

How do you end graft in Thailand?

1. Get serious. Stop talking, and start acting.

2. Replace the entire judiciary, nationwide. Even if the police make arrests, how does that benefit society when the perpetrator is wealthy enough to buy off the fabulously corrupt prosecutors and judges?

3. Encourage the new judges to hand out serious sentencing. Start with fines that are commensurate with the level of corruption taking place. If you are talking about a Phuket mayor, who has been taking tens of millions of baht for many years, fine him 10 million baht. And make sure the fine cannot, and will not be reduced by another corrupt judge. And make sure the fine stays with the family, and until it is paid in full, the family cannot even conduct a transaction as simple as selling a car., much less a property.

4. Start handing out meaningful jail sentences. Corruption will drop significantly if there is a deterrent. Ten years in prison is a deterrent, and is warranted in the case of a major corruption case.

5. Change the libel laws, so these corrupt officials can be called out, and their families can be shamed. This is important. Teach people that there is a significant loss of face, that is associated with corruption.

6. Stop jawboning. Talk is good if it leads to some changes. Otherwise, talk is all it is. Show us, do not tell us.

[The Deerhunter]

When he fears that younger people copying the wrong values when they discover that many corrupt officials and politicians get away with it how comes that no action will be taken against Yinluck(till now) and all the Land Department officials on Phlukhet who issued wrong title deeds? Do these people ever think before making such remarks? I doubt it.

And 200 stolen supercars only announced last week. The people you & I mention and as many as possible of the more notable & high profile practitioners of corruption must be arrested. If convicted and if found guilty, they must be punished by the law-for-all and shamed in front of their peers. If not, then it is all for nothing!

The General must let people from the top to the bottom of Thai Society see real punishment and real accountability for corrupt actions. Losing face is not enough if they have stashed 5 or 10 million baht or more away in family assets or overseas accounts.

Moving corrupt officials to an "inactive post" is fine while the case is being developed and prosecuted, but a guilty verdict requires authoritative action. There must be a scale of corruption punishment and strict goalposts set, and adhered to. Judges (military and civil) must set the punishments at sentencing. Sentencing can be split into "penal" and "fiscal" sentencings; and allow suitable time (3 to 12 months) for the money to be calculated and followed to complete the fiscal sentencing. Competent foresic accountants must be appointed to follow the money.

For the very small fish, demoting or firing may be enough. For the bigger corruption criminals, (that is what they are), imprisonment and cancellation of pension priviledges are required. On, up to confiscation of assets to the value of the "take" they made. The "book" must be kept open for say 20 years. If some of the smart big guys have shifted it overseas, every time it appears more has come back, snatch it again. The people doing the sentencing and forensics need to understand that they work under the same rules, if not stricter rules. They would be very obvious targets for brown paper bags.

Trillions of baht have been stolen in just the last 10-20 years. Whole generations of thai taxpayers have had their tax payments and their childrens' birthrights looted. The economy has been sabotaged and the development of the entire nation has been undermined by the scale of the theft. Justice must be done. and be seen to be done. Unless Thai people see real punishment to real corrrupt people then it is all for nothing. Without real punishment, there is no incentive to stop corruption. The current initiative will fail and nothing will be achieved.

This is a once in a generation initiative. If this one is allowed to founder it will only have to be done again in 10 or 20 years. Please do not let it fail.

Edited September 8, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[Keesters]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

Because it was the 'Tip of the Iceberg', 'The Straw that broke the Camels back'. I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties. We shall have to wait and see. Honestly I'm not sure Thailand is mature enough for democracy. Politics here reminds me of kindergarten kids squabbling over the play-dough.

When I arrived here 30 years ago it was under mostly military backed government. People were happy, carefree and fun loving. They got on with whatever job they had and never complained about anything. Since Black May 1992 when the military removed itself/was removed from politics all I hear is moaning, groaning, politics this politics that, want want and more want, protest here and protest there. They seem to have lost the fun in life. I'm hoping for a return to the more fun loving peaceful times.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Keesters

[SaamBaht]

It's difficult to be corrupt and end corruption at the same time. Could somebody cc the good General.

[brucec64]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

Because it was the 'Tip of the Iceberg', 'The Straw that broke the Camels back'. I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties. We shall have to wait and see. Honestly I'm not sure Thailand is mature enough for democracy. Politics here reminds me of kindergarten kids squabbling over the play-dough.

Can you honestly say that passing a 2.6 trillion baht budget bill, without debate, with a unanimous vote, can be considered the action of a functional, competent government? This is what happens when cronyism is taken to the absolute limit.

[wilcopops]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

Because it was the 'Tip of the Iceberg', 'The Straw that broke the Camels back'. I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties. We shall have to wait and see. Honestly I'm not sure Thailand is mature enough for democracy. Politics here reminds me of kindergarten kids squabbling over the play-dough.

Can you honestly say that passing a 2.6 trillion baht budget bill, without debate, with a unanimous vote, can be considered the action of a functional, competent government? This is what happens when cronyism is taken to the absolute limit.

"I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties." - and that is the crux of the matter......what happens in a corrupt system - govt, business or other - instead of appointing the BEST person for the job, they get a MATE who is a best, NOT the best, but usually just plain incompetent.....and because he's a mate of the boss, no-one can do a thing about it.

[wilcopops]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

Because it was the 'Tip of the Iceberg', 'The Straw that broke the Camels back'. I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties. We shall have to wait and see. Honestly I'm not sure Thailand is mature enough for democracy. Politics here reminds me of kindergarten kids squabbling over the play-dough.

When I arrived here 30 years ago it was under mostly military backed government. People were happy, carefree and fun loving. They got on with whatever job they had and never complained about anything. Since Black May 1992 when the military removed itself/was removed from politics all I hear is moaning, groaning, politics this politics that, want want and more want, protest here and protest there. They seem to have lost the fun in life. I'm hoping for a return to the more fun loving peaceful times.

"I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties." - and that is the crux of the matter......what happens in a corrupt system - govt, business or other - instead of appointing the BEST person for the job, they get a MATE who is a best, NOT the best, but usually just plain incompetent.....and because he's a mate of the boss, no-one can do a thing about it.

[Keesters]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

... Yingluck was forced to step down for a single instance of nepotism...

More like multiple instances of incompetence. But who's counting. Gone is gone and good riddance. Nepotism & cronyism aside let's see how competent our new leaders are before criticizing them.

Actually, for a single instance of nepotism: http://www.thenational.ae/world/yingluck-forced-to-step-down-by-thai-court.

Even the Nation has spoken out on the evils of cronyism: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-must-embark-on-Mandelas-road-to-democrac-30239150.html (this is just one example)

How has an offence that was seen as to be serious enough in May to take down a PM and half the Cabinet, just 3 months later become an "aside"?

Because it was the 'Tip of the Iceberg', 'The Straw that broke the Camels back'. I don't care how nepotic or cronyic a government is as long as it is competent in its duties. We shall have to wait and see. Honestly I'm not sure Thailand is mature enough for democracy. Politics here reminds me of kindergarten kids squabbling over the play-dough.

Can you honestly say that passing a 2.6 trillion baht budget bill, without debate, with a unanimous vote, can be considered the action of a functional, competent government? This is what happens when cronyism is taken to the absolute limit.

I don't know as neither do you. We shall just have to wait and see if the budget works. The proof will be in eating the pudding not just looking at it.

You are judging the present regime based upon just one or two words. Its the actions that make competency not words. Yingluck and Thaksin both had how many years before their downfall. Yet you'd dismiss this lot within weeks. You need to calm down and give them time to prove that they are up to the job or not. If they fail then you can start waving your red flag at them.

[fab4]

Prime Minister General Prayuth Chan-ocha has promised that his government regards the fight against corruption as a national agenda assignment and a key element of national reform.

Well today's the day to see if these fine words actually mean anything. Today, being the day that all members of the NLA have to report their assets and liabilities to the NACC, ..............or not.

[Nickymaster]

Prime Minister General Prayuth Chan-ocha has promised that his government regards the fight against corruption as a national agenda assignment and a key element of national reform.

Well today's the day to see if these fine words actually mean anything. Today, being the day that all members of the NLA have to report their assets and liabilities to the NACC, ..............or not.

Nasty fab4. Grow up man and enjoy that Thailand is improving.

It must hurt that your role model failed tremendously in tackling corruption. Or was it just a show in the first place?

(You remember the second guy from the left and his involvement in corruption? Former party leader Yongyuth was involved in a huge scandal when he was taking this picture. Shameless crooks)

Anyhow, let's be happy that Thailand is finally solving problems.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Nickymaster