Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[MAJIC]

@ jpinx no 902

You not read that? Westminster is the problem -- they never tell everything beforehand. Even the latest pensions changes are unfathomable"

The easy answer is : should Scotland pull off the YES vote? (unclear as yet) then England could pay up NI Pensions earned in Scotland to date,and advise Scotland to start their own Scottish Pension scheme!

This extreme Nationalism can work two ways you know!

"Scotland has said they want to use the pound -- Westminster is stalling,,,,,,, "

Or maybe they don't intend to be blackmailed,and have decided not to give in to Salmonds dubious demands! which even Salmond can't give any reassurance that Scotland will use the pound! because everyone has said NO!

If it's a Yes win, what's to stop Westminster announcing the next morning that Scotland in now on its own and all government payments to Scotland immediately cease.

Wouldn't put it past them.

Are you expecting the price of Independence to be as cheap as Salmond wishes it to be?

Rest assured unlike some other Countries we honour our debts!

Edited September 12, 2014 by MAJIC

[Aceicol]

As do both the other parties who would ever have a possibility of power.

Its all political manoeuvring......the city will speak if the government dares to carry out this folly....and the UK government will bow to their pressure as always.

I hope you're right mate as I hope if it happens an independent Scotland thrives as well as the rUK. However I don't think there will be either the political will, public opinion or even the City in support of it.

General opinion in Wales if you split is, some want you to leave to pave the way for further powers for Wales, others think if you leave you've cherry picked your years after years of being subsidised. I would expect England being a lot more right wing than Wales or Scotland will be a lot happier to go for the throat and treat you as a foreign country. For them there won't be the love lost that I think the Welsh will feel.

One thing is for certain I wouldn't treat this as a game of poker, as to lose is massive. Just assuming the UK will bow down to agree to secure a foreign countries debts seems like a very risky hand to play to me.

Serious question, if you were Welsh, English or Northern Irish would you be happy with your government to underpin a foreign country and their risk. I'm not asking this provocatively but how would you feel about that? As a Welsh person who wishes you well whatever the result, I wouldn't be too happy about it personally.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Aceicol

[MJP]

@ jpinx no 902

You not read that? Westminster is the problem -- they never tell everything beforehand. Even the latest pensions changes are unfathomable"

The easy answer is : should Scotland pull off the YES vote? (unclear as yet) then England could pay up NI Pensions earned in Scotland to date,and advise Scotland to start their own Scottish Pension scheme!

This extreme Nationalism can work two ways you know!

"Scotland has said they want to use the pound -- Westminster is stalling,,,,,,, "

Or maybe they don't intend to be blackmailed,and have decided not to give in to Salmonds dubious demands! which even Salmond can't give any reassurance that Scotland will use the pound! because everyone has said NO!

If it's a Yes win, what's to stop Westminster announcing the next morning that Scotland in now on its own and all government payments to Scotland immediately cease.

Wouldn't put it past them.

Are you expecting the price of Independence to be as cheap as Salmond wishes it to be?

Rest assured unlike most other Countries we honour our debts!

Do we? Quantitative easing begs to differ.

Because absolutely nothing has been agreed in legislation prior to the vote, who in the hell knows what's going to happen?

This is being managed so badly on both sides it beggars belief.

[MAJIC]

Ouch..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29126937

Will the price of food go up in England?

What a ridiculous article.

Currently, many major supermarket prices are no different in Scotland than they are in shops in England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

This is despite the fact that they face higher distribution costs in Scotland, as well as a public health levy on selling alcohol and tobacco (which is due to end in 2015).

Read it properly.

Prices will rocket in Scotland because of higher distribution costs, same with the mail etc

A 3ltr bottle of white extra strength cider will be a luxury and a distant memory to most.

In fact prices are generally higher in Central London than Scotland for food.....so I seriously doubt this assumption....besides Scotland may well cut the tax on real ale as Alex Salmond looks like he enjoys the odd slurp.

I've every confidence on this issue.

And have you confidence on Royal Mail deliveries,who only today,are claiming Scottish outlying districts already owe them £ 200 million pounds for servicing loss making unprofitable outlying routes, how long do you think RM will keep servicing loss making routes,when it can't be absorbed by England?....... Answers on a back of a Postage Stamp please!

Edited September 12, 2014 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

@ jpinx no 902

You not read that? Westminster is the problem -- they never tell everything beforehand. Even the latest pensions changes are unfathomable"

The easy answer is : should Scotland pull off the YES vote? (unclear as yet) then England could pay up NI Pensions earned in Scotland to date,and advise Scotland to start their own Scottish Pension scheme!

This extreme Nationalism can work two ways you know!

"Scotland has said they want to use the pound -- Westminster is stalling,,,,,,, "

Or maybe they don't intend to be blackmailed,and have decided not to give in to Salmonds outrageous demands! which even Salmond can't give any reassurance that Scotland will use the pound! because everyone has said NO!

[MAJIC]

@ jpinx no 902

You not read that? Westminster is the problem -- they never tell everything beforehand. Even the latest pensions changes are unfathomable"

The easy answer is : should Scotland pull off the YES vote? (unclear as yet) then England could pay up NI Pensions earned in Scotland to date,and advise Scotland to start their own Scottish Pension scheme!

This extreme Nationalism can work two ways you know!

"Scotland has said they want to use the pound -- Westminster is stalling,,,,,,, "

Or maybe they don't intend to be blackmailed,and have decided not to give in to Salmonds dubious demands! which even Salmond can't give any reassurance that Scotland will use the pound! because everyone has said NO!

If it's a Yes win, what's to stop Westminster announcing the next morning that Scotland in now on its own and all government payments to Scotland immediately cease.

Wouldn't put it past them.

Are you expecting the price of Independence to be as cheap as Salmond wishes it to be?

Rest assured unlike most other Countries we honour our debts!

Do we? Quantitative easing begs to differ.

Because absolutely nothing has been agreed in legislation prior to the vote, who in the hell knows what's going to happen?

This is being managed so badly on both sides it beggars belief.

The man that knows everything and nothing,made the initial application for a Referendum. Sadly he has convinced too many,and it will end in years of tears,if President Salmond realises his ambitions!

Has quantitive easing got anything to do with honouring our debts? as a Country? you seem to be talking about the greedy Banks a few year ago, which caused a near catastrophic Banking melt down.

As I recall our UK Government (Labour) bailed out the Banks,including RBS and bought up some other Banks which contained the damage somewhat!

[MJP]

@ jpinx no 902

You not read that? Westminster is the problem -- they never tell everything beforehand. Even the latest pensions changes are unfathomable"

The easy answer is : should Scotland pull off the YES vote? (unclear as yet) then England could pay up NI Pensions earned in Scotland to date,and advise Scotland to start their own Scottish Pension scheme!

This extreme Nationalism can work two ways you know!

"Scotland has said they want to use the pound -- Westminster is stalling,,,,,,, "

Or maybe they don't intend to be blackmailed,and have decided not to give in to Salmonds dubious demands! which even Salmond can't give any reassurance that Scotland will use the pound! because everyone has said NO!

If it's a Yes win, what's to stop Westminster announcing the next morning that Scotland in now on its own and all government payments to Scotland immediately cease.

Wouldn't put it past them.

Are you expecting the price of Independence to be as cheap as Salmond wishes it to be?

Rest assured unlike most other Countries we honour our debts!

Do we? Quantitative easing begs to differ.

Because absolutely nothing has been agreed in legislation prior to the vote, who in the hell knows what's going to happen?

This is being managed so badly on both sides it beggars belief.

The man that knows everything and nothing,made the initial application for a Referendum. Sadly he has convinced too many,and it will end in years of tears,if President Salmond realises his ambitions!

Has quantitive easing got anything to do with honouring our debts? as a Country? you seem to be talking about the greedy Banks a few year ago, which caused a near catastrophic Banking melt down.

As I recall our UK Government (Labour) bailed out the Banks,including RBS and bought up some other Banks which contained the damage somewhat!

Devaluing the Pound by printing and bailing was a partial default. Yes it prevented immediate meltdown.

[nontabury]

snp1.JPG

Yes, no problem, if that was the capital city of the United Kingdom.

[nontabury]

If your alluding to the rise of UKIP, you could't be more wrong ...

I wasn't so the rest of your post was wasted. They (our partners in the EU) were being referred to as the Krauts, Frogs etc long before Farage made his entrance. Why is that the English have these derogatory names for just about every other significant nationality? Is it a need to look down on, or sneer at everyone? I've never understood nor wished to be associated with it.

Who exactly,certainly not me, thou I have heard Scottish Nationalist throw many insults at the English, as well as at other people.

I'm reminded of the Tories in Westminster laughing at the thought of the oil revenues going straight to the Scottish parliament.

Is't it Strange that very little was heard of Scottish nationalism for 260yrs during which time the rest of the UK subsidised Scotland, then on the discovery of North Sea oil, selfish narrow mind Nationalism raised it's ugly head. Then the Scottish motto became "Lets not Share"

So now you want separation, fair enough, but amongst the many things you have not taken into account as Transum keeps pointing,along with Currency and EU membership, there is also the the lost income derived from the financial sector, which according to a Scottish economist see post 818 dwarfs the earnings from oil.

[Neeranam]

I'm reminded of the Tories in Westminster laughing at the thought of the oil revenues going straight to the Scottish parliament.

Is't it Strange that very little was heard of Scottish nationalism for 260yrs during which time the rest of the UK subsidised Scotland, then on the discovery of North Sea oil, selfish narrow mind Nationalism raised it's ugly head. Then the Scottish motto became "Lets not Share"

So now you want separation, fair enough, but amongst the many things you have not taken into account as Transum keeps pointing,along with Currency and EU membership, there is also the the lost income derived from the financial sector, which according to a Scottish economist see post 818 dwarfs the earnings from oil.

yer arse - get your historical facts correct.

Obviously, history classes in England are different from ones in Scotland.

[Neeranam]

Copied from the Guardian.

FROM THE OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER
Friends, university chums, donors!

I write to you in a time of crisis. The UK faces its greatest ever threat. In Scotland, people who care about other people and social justice and the poor and the vulnerable are threatening our very way of being. 300 years of making loads of money together could be undone if we do not act against the malicious forces of empathy, consideration and caring. The usual tactics of divide-and-rule and fear and banging on about the currency seem to have failed us, so we now look to you to help save the UK as we know it, i.e the one that's made loads of dosh for us all.

For our part, we have activated Gordon Brown and the governor of the Bank of England and have locked Alistair Darling in a cupboard. In accordance with procedure, we have deployed a royal baby and a record amount of empty gestures by raising Scottish flags over government buildings and sprinting to Scotland for a day which, quite frankly, was more than enough time thank you very much. We have ensured that the BBC makes plenty of comparisons between the SNP and UKIP and implies that the Queen has called Alex Salmond "a knobler".

But now it's your turn.

We have served you well. We have deflected attention and anger away from you and onto the poor and unemployed, onto immigrants and the vulnerable, all so you can make more money. We have lowered your tax rates and been to hell and back (i.e. the EU) to defend your bonuses. Now it's time you did something for us (and yourselves. You want to keep getting richer, don't you?). If you're a banker, say how your bank will leave Scotland (even if that just means relocating the plaque on the door). If you're the boss of a mortgage lending company, say that mortgages will be more expensive. If you're Standard Life, say you'll leave Scotland like you threatened to if devolution was brought in and it doesn't matter that you didn't then and that you were just bluffing, the important thing is to scare people now. John Lewis, supermarkets: just say prices may go up or something vague like that. And never mind if you're the boss of BP, people won't think: "hold on, he's the boss of BP! He hasn't got my best interests at heart", not if we all scare them together. We just have to frighten them then we can get back to selling you the NHS and anything else we can get hands on.

Remember Royal Mail? We did alright by you then, didn't we? We can do that again and again.

We need your help so we can make money together, so the UK can go back to (big) business as usual. So get out there and frighten 7 shades of Kilmarnock out of the Scottish voters. Remember: you scratch our back and we'll scratch yours. Let us come together to preserve the UK (as a money-making tool for all of us).

<deleted> best wishes and see you at the Mansion House dinner/next Tory fundraiser,

David Cameron

[nontabury]

Taking care of us???

Lmao.....remember the Poll Tax?

Your Iron Lady demanded £386 from me for that abomination at a time I was earning £250 a month.....my appeal for some relief on that was denied.

Yes we long remember what England has given us transam.

I understand your pain even though the poll tax and pit closures where over 20 years ago.

Don't let the need for revenge and stickin it to the English cloud your judgement .

Think about your pocket!

For sure the Scots are going to lose money.

The terrible things done to the Scots were also done to the English before them.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/short-history-enclosure-britain

Simon Fairlie describes how the progressive enclosure of commons over several centuries has deprived most of the British people of access to agricultural land. The historical process bears little relationship to the “Tragedy of the Commons”, the theory which ideologues in the neoliberal era adopted as part of a smear campaign against common property institutions.

Lets not forget who has done more damage to the fabric of England than Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, yes that's right those two Scotsmen Tony LIER Blair and Gordon Bigot Brown.

[nontabury]

I wish the English would keep out of it - we really don't care what they think.\

You should care what the English think of it, an estimated 500,000 will have a vote on it.

Not sure where you've obtained these figures, that would be approx 1/10th of the Scottish population, and an even greater % of the people eligible to vote. What ever the numbers lets hope they do right by England and vote "YES".

[smokie36]

Lets not forget who has done more damage to the fabric of England than Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, yes that's right those two Scotsmen Tony LIER Blair and Gordon Bigot Brown.

They did me no harm....unlike your iron lady.

[wilcopops]

"Scotlands vote is not about Braveheart or kilts or tribal nationalism. Its about democracy"

"Even more startling, Scotlands independence can be consensual. England and Wales, to their enormous credit, have already accepted Scottish sovereignty, and whatever happens in the referendum there is no going back on that decent and gracious decision. Scotland may or may not become an independent country but it is already and without argument a free country."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/scotland-vote-braveheart-nationalism-democracy-independence

Edited September 13, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Plus if they vote Yes there is very liitel to stop rUK shafting an Infependent Scotland on the way out as this well thought out academic piece lays out in great detail.

http://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/negotiations-after-a-scottish-referendum-yes-vote/

Thailand can only marvel at how sophistacted and nuanced an advanced democratic society is that allows such a vote . If this was Thailand Salmond and his cohorts would be arrested and in chokee for an indeterminate for lese majeste against Queen Elizabeth - or if not they would now like their red compatriots either be in exile , or in step with central command.

It's nuts. Every last detail for transition to independence should have been negotiated and legally agreed prior to the vote. But no. Salmond's ego had to come first.

I'm worried for the Scots.

I'd be more worried about your perception of what is actually happening....you seem to have got your "facts" arse about face Edited September 13, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Taking care of us???

Lmao.....remember the Poll Tax?

Your Iron Lady demanded £386 from me for that abomination at a time I was earning £250 a month.....my appeal for some relief on that was denied.

Yes we long remember what England has given us transam.

I understand your pain even though the poll tax and pit closures where over 20 years ago.

Don't let the need for revenge and stickin it to the English cloud your judgement .

Think about your pocket!

For sure the Scots are going to lose money.

The terrible things done to the Scots were also done to the English before them.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/short-history-enclosure-britain

Simon Fairlie describes how the progressive enclosure of commons over several centuries has deprived most of the British people of access to agricultural land. The historical process bears little relationship to the Tragedy of the Commons, the theory which ideologues in the neoliberal era adopted as part of a smear campaign against common property institutions.

Lets not forget who has done more damage to the fabric of England than Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, yes that's right those two Scotsmen Tony LIER Blair and Gordon Bigot Brown.

You know when someone hasn't a proper argument when they resort to gratuitous mudslinging, baseless ad hominem attacks and inappropriate use of Godwin's law.

Edited September 13, 2014 by wilcopops

[smokie36]

"Scotlands vote is not about Braveheart or kilts or tribal nationalism. Its about democracy"

"Even more startling, Scotlands independence can be consensual. England and Wales, to their enormous credit, have already accepted Scottish sovereignty, and whatever happens in the referendum there is no going back on that decent and gracious decision. Scotland may or may not become an independent country but it is already and without argument a free country."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/scotland-vote-braveheart-nationalism-democracy-independence

Decent piece.....when he talks of unaccountable government I am reminded of the government which covered up the Hillsborough disaster.

That alone shows you what the Tories are capable of and frankly that no one served jail time for that is an absolute disgrace.

So in looking at Westminster government....perhaps many Scots will think issues on currency to be less important than removing an undemocratic government from making decisions which affect our lives but we have no say in.

Yup I would vote YES simply in memory of the closures of the '80's and the Poll Tax fiasco.

[jpinx]

You know when someone hasn't a proper argument when they resort to gratuitous mudslinging, baseless ad hominem attacks and inappropriate use of Godwin's law.

=========================>>

Not to mention the endless, boring repetition of the mantras of bigotry. So much noise and so little cohesive argument. I am reminded to not enter into a debate with imbeciles -- they will drag me down to their level and then beat me with their vast experience

[MJP]

Plus if they vote Yes there is very liitel to stop rUK shafting an Infependent Scotland on the way out as this well thought out academic piece lays out in great detail.

http://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/negotiations-after-a-scottish-referendum-yes-vote/

Thailand can only marvel at how sophistacted and nuanced an advanced democratic society is that allows such a vote . If this was Thailand Salmond and his cohorts would be arrested and in chokee for an indeterminate for lese majeste against Queen Elizabeth - or if not they would now like their red compatriots either be in exile , or in step with central command.

It's nuts. Every last detail for transition to independence should have been negotiated and legally agreed prior to the vote. But no. Salmond's ego had to come first.

I'm worried for the Scots.

I'd be more worried about your perception of what is actually happening....you seem to have got your "facts" arse about face

I cannot see any fault in anything I've said. What are the "facts"?

[transam]

You know when someone hasn't a proper argument when they resort to gratuitous mudslinging, baseless ad hominem attacks and inappropriate use of Godwin's law.

=========================>>

Not to mention the endless, boring repetition of the mantras of bigotry. So much noise and so little cohesive argument. I am reminded to not enter into a debate with imbeciles -- they will drag me down to their level and then beat me with their vast experience

JUST tell all if the SNP has the important answers for Scots, cos nobody has yet heard them. If you have them then post them here so we can all sit back and wait for the vote...Theres a good chap...

[jpinx]

Ooops - I made the mistake of leaving my browser open and transam jumped in with the same old questions which have been answered umpteen times already.

[transam]

Ooops - I made the mistake of leaving my browser open and transam jumped in with the same old questions which have been answered umpteen times already.

You are absolutely right, you don't know the answers, gawd it is difficult here at times..........

[smokie36]

Ooops - I made the mistake of leaving my browser open and transam jumped in with the same old questions which have been answered umpteen times already.

You are absolutely right, you don't know the answers, gawd it is difficult here at times..........

Currency : Pound

EU: Probably if it suits us.

Defence: Nuclear stuff out.

Jobs: Lowered taxes and investment breaks for new companies.

Oil: Its ours....and we may encourage new exploration....and better education so our kids can get work on the se fields.

Education: Free to university level for all who attain the required standard.....based on need.....rich families can and should pay a contribution.

Heath: Free

Pensions: No change

Taxation: I can see income tax remaining same....perhaps going up slighly in the interim then dropping again.

[transam]

Ooops - I made the mistake of leaving my browser open and transam jumped in with the same old questions which have been answered umpteen times already.

You are absolutely right, you don't know the answers, gawd it is difficult here at times..........

Currency : Pound

EU: Probably if it suits us.

Defence: Nuclear stuff out.

Jobs: Lowered taxes and investment breaks for new companies.

Oil: Its ours....and we may encourage new exploration....and better education so our kids can get work on the se fields.

Education: Free to university level for all who attain the required standard.....based on need.....rich families can and should pay a contribution.

Heath: Free

Pensions: No change

Taxation: I can see income tax remaining same....perhaps going up slighly in the interim then dropping again.

At last we have concrete answers........... ....................

[wilcopops]

Plus if they vote Yes there is very liitel to stop rUK shafting an Infependent Scotland on the way out as this well thought out academic piece lays out in great detail.

http://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/negotiations-after-a-scottish-referendum-yes-vote/

Thailand can only marvel at how sophistacted and nuanced an advanced democratic society is that allows such a vote . If this was Thailand Salmond and his cohorts would be arrested and in chokee for an indeterminate for lese majeste against Queen Elizabeth - or if not they would now like their red compatriots either be in exile , or in step with central command.

It's nuts. Every last detail for transition to independence should have been negotiated and legally agreed prior to the vote. But no. Salmond's ego had to come first.

I'm worried for the Scots.

I'd be more worried about your perception of what is actually happening....you seem to have got your "facts" arse about face

I cannot see any fault in anything I've said. What are the "facts"?

For once I'm in total agreement...I'm quite sure you can't see any fault in anything you've said.

[siampolee]

I expect the usual outcry of a biased press report, however it might be wise to see how the financial sector feels about the situation and where Scotland and subsequently England and that will include Wales might well be heading. Money controls political aims a,d methinks that the S.N.P. have not factored that particular factor into ther campaign....

Those roses that we see the S.N.P. proffering may well turn into thistles which are useless weeds,possibly prophetic that the thistle is a Scottish emblem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093574/Scotland-heading-for-a-Great-Depression-after-a-Yes-vote.html

[MJP]

Wilcopops, why are you quite happy to walk into a trap set by Westminster? You vote yes, with nothing agreed prior on how transition takes place (should have been the Scotland Independence Act 2014) and now Westminster holds all the cards.

Why have you done this?

Fact is there are no facts. Facts are only those written down and agreed in law. As I see it you're totally exposed.

[Chopperboy]

"Scotlands vote is not about Braveheart or kilts or tribal nationalism. Its about democracy"

"Even more startling, Scotlands independence can be consensual. England and Wales, to their enormous credit, have already accepted Scottish sovereignty, and whatever happens in the referendum there is no going back on that decent and gracious decision. Scotland may or may not become an independent country but it is already and without argument a free country."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/scotland-vote-braveheart-nationalism-democracy-independence

Most countries in the West are not free, its just a fake left/ right paradigm creating an illusion of control. In reality most of the politicians are just shadow government puppets. It doesn't matter if its Blair, Brown, Bush or Obama they are all just well paid actors there to assist the globalist psychopaths relentless agenda - war, power, wealth, control & eugenics....

[BKK Blues Brother]

Ooops - I made the mistake of leaving my browser open and transam jumped in with the same old questions which have been answered umpteen times already.

You are absolutely right, you don't know the answers, gawd it is difficult here at times..........

Currency : Pound

EU: Probably if it suits us.

Defence: Nuclear stuff out.

Jobs: Lowered taxes and investment breaks for new companies.

Oil: Its ours....and we may encourage new exploration....and better education so our kids can get work on the se fields.

Education: Free to university level for all who attain the required standard.....based on need.....rich families can and should pay a contribution.

Heath: Free

Pensions: No change

Taxation: I can see income tax remaining same....perhaps going up slighly in the interim then dropping again.

At last we have concrete answers........... ....................

North sea oil is going to pay for all that! The nationalists are living in fantasy land..

As i predicted..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093574/Scotland-heading-for-a-Great-Depression-after-a-Yes-vote.html

Edited September 13, 2014 by BKK Blues Brother