Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[danmarnj]

Groundskeeper Willie has his own views:

http://mashable.com/2014/09/13/groundskeeper-willie-scotland-independence/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link

[baboon]

Well we have to continue to live next door to each other unless there is a Teutonic shift

Why are you bringing the Germans into it?

[Neeranam]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/and-then-my-heart-went-boom/

What the BBC have been doing this week is disgusting.

[jpinx]

id vote yes if i could obviously. But my instinct tells me when dealing with a change like this, you need to either have a massive groundswell for change (like Obama in 2008), or you need to have a strong and consistent buffer to weather those who have every intention of voting for change right up until they stand in their booth and look at their paper (like the UK General election in 1992 or even Obama again in 2012). Either there has to be a genuine longstanding resentment for the status quo (1997) and a real genuine impetus for change, or there has to be a feeling that regardless of your political ties, youre voting for history. For me, that surge really did push right up until midweek. But i feel the momentum has been halted. It will once again carry on, and maybe even surge again as we approach Thursday. But itll ebb away at the end. Too many people like to flirt with change. But if anything, the problem for Scotland is that theres no clear AWFUL answer. Theres just two really good options on the table (so long as you buy into Devo max). And in that case, i think a lot of hesitant support will drift away when they come face to face with their ballot paper.

Then again, one of my mates is insistent that people will walk in unconvinced, but think "to hell with it! lets do this". Its all up for grabs. Salmond will tell you that every minute every day if he could. In fact the latest poll putting the no's in an 8 point lead will have him ecstatic if only because its kind of against the general trend of the other polls (about 3-5% difference) thus making it a bit of an outlier, but it wil also help him no end make the case that the argument hasnt been won yet, and his campaigners and voters cant just sit back and expect other people to go vote for them. They HAVE to turn out to make this happen. Its music to the YES campaigns ears so close to polling day. Its all to play for... and they cant sit back yet and expect the yes vote to romp it despite his own private polling telling him otherwise.

Ironically, I fear the real ground swell of opinion will be the English, tired of being hated, wanting complete break up of the Union after this, Wales, NI the lot.

You have no idea the effect the obvious hatred of English people is having here south of the border. None knew it was this bad and none realised what a great deal in subsidy the other three countries in the UK were getting.

Genie is definitely out of the bottle now.

Yes! the Genie is definately out of the bottle,and not before time, we need to know our friends North of the border,I have still no doubt the NO vote will still hold out,but as far as our 300 year alliance goes,it may be too little too late! and prolonging the inevitable,eventual split!.will not please the English people if there is too much pandering,concessions and hatred to the other members of the United Kingdom! Next time with the help of the up and coming UKIP,it could very well be the English calling for a Divorce!

You are making the same mistake as so many others -- the UK was not based on any "alliance" - it was based on the elite anglo-scots forcing the population into a union they didn't want. The Scottish history authors tend to tell a different story to the English ones Similarly in the 1920's when Ireland had to fight for independence, Northern Ireland was created to accomodate the Anglo-Irish. The same happened in many other countries -- East Ukraine is another Northern Ireland in the making

[smokie36]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/and-then-my-heart-went-boom/

What the BBC have been doing this week is disgusting.

Yes the BBC have shown themselves to be the publicity machine of the establishment over and over again.......disgraceful when you consider their remit.

Hopefully BBC Scotland's chiefs will be losing their jobs if not their heads soon enough!

[nontabury]

Good luck to the Scottish - what ever they decide. I say that as an Englishman - genuinely ! The Scottish Folk still have plenty of " spunk " and won't let others take over their country. George Galloway - mmmmmm. I hate most of what he spouts - but the guy is a very accomplished performer. There are various factions that I would rather he support than oppose because his performances are pretty good ! Unfortunately, whilst I have rather a fond liking of the fella, I am opposed to most of what he says !

If I ever return to UK, I would most likely prefer to live in an independent Scotland as opposed to a $$$/&@?/Islam$&/ spineless England any day.

George referred to ( in one of his latest speeches ) about a " Frenzied gathering of UK Soldiers " at a recent Ibrox Game all dressed in uniform and behaving in a very aggressive manner - which apparently gave him great cause for concern! Well, Mr George..... I can only hope that escalates and actually gets the Media coverage it should get......because maybe then, a few would wake up south of that H Wall and smell and see the coffee and all it's colour !

There were 10 German Bombers in the sky, there were 10 German Bombers in the sky, there were 10 German Bombers, 10 German Bombers, 10 German bombers in the sky. And the RAF from England shot them down, the RAF from England shot them down......go for it boys..... And never forget lads like Lee Rigby...... Press suppression stops us in England saying what we want to say !!

Don't think about about a few pounds lost here n a few bob lost there, protect your own interests and be independent from the spineless political wan/ers from England - be grateful for the opportunity to take control of your own destiny!

Best wishes !

Not quite what you wrote today post 934 in the thread "Does Britain have a jihad problem"

[wilcopops]

YES or NO - the referendum is going to give the UK the most serious political kick up the arse they've had for decades....if not centuries......they will HAVE to review how the UK nations operate and even look at the 2 party system, which is far too geographic in nature

No bad thing Wilco, no bad thing at all.

who is suggesting what is a "bad thing"?

Edited September 14, 2014 by wilcopops

[7by7]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/and-then-my-heart-went-boom/

What the BBC have been doing this week is disgusting.

Yes the BBC have shown themselves to be the publicity machine of the establishment over and over again.......disgraceful when you consider their remit.

Hopefully BBC Scotland's chiefs will be losing their jobs if not their heads soon enough!

All BBC news outlets have given equal coverage to both sides.

But people who live 6000 miles away and/or don't ever watch BBC TV, listen to BBC radio or even read the BBC news website and instead rely on propaganda sites like Whinge over Scotland for information wont know that.

For example, this article on the BBC website.

They also have a dedicated section; Scotland decides.

Of course, like any other impartial news organisation, they can't cover everything and they do make mistakes; like Nick Robinson's 'heckling' of Salmond over the question of many large Scottish financial institutions fleeing south in the event of a Yes vote.

Although Salmonds reply, which despite some reports was broadcast by the BBC, was so pathetic that maybe Robinson was trying to give him time to come up with a better one!

[smokie36]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/and-then-my-heart-went-boom/

What the BBC have been doing this week is disgusting.

Yes the BBC have shown themselves to be the publicity machine of the establishment over and over again.......disgraceful when you consider their remit.

Hopefully BBC Scotland's chiefs will be losing their jobs if not their heads soon enough!

All BBC news outlets have given equal coverage to both sides.

But people who live 6000 miles away and/or don't ever watch BBC TV, listen to BBC radio or even read the BBC news website and instead rely on propaganda sites like Whinge over Scotland for information wont know that.

For example, this article on the BBC website.

They also have a dedicated section; Scotland decides.

Of course, like any other impartial news organisation, they can't cover everything and they do make mistakes; like Nick Robinson's 'heckling' of Salmond over the question of many large Scottish financial institutions fleeing south in the event of a Yes vote.

Although Salmonds reply, which despite some reports was broadcast by the BBC, was so pathetic that maybe Robinson was trying to give him time to come up with a better one!

The BBC showing a dozen YES placard holders in Rutherglen when thousands were parading along Buchanan St in Glasgow is not an accident 7by7.

To say it was a simple mistake is laughable.

[7by7]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

[transam]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/and-then-my-heart-went-boom/

What the BBC have been doing this week is disgusting.

Yes the BBC have shown themselves to be the publicity machine of the establishment over and over again.......disgraceful when you consider their remit.

Hopefully BBC Scotland's chiefs will be losing their jobs if not their heads soon enough!

All BBC news outlets have given equal coverage to both sides.

But people who live 6000 miles away and/or don't ever watch BBC TV, listen to BBC radio or even read the BBC news website and instead rely on propaganda sites like Whinge over Scotland for information wont know that.

For example, this article on the BBC website.

They also have a dedicated section; Scotland decides.

Of course, like any other impartial news organisation, they can't cover everything and they do make mistakes; like Nick Robinson's 'heckling' of Salmond over the question of many large Scottish financial institutions fleeing south in the event of a Yes vote.

Although Salmonds reply, which despite some reports was broadcast by the BBC, was so pathetic that maybe Robinson was trying to give him time to come up with a better one!

The BBC showing a dozen YES placard holders in Rutherglen when thousands were parading along Buchanan St in Glasgow is not an accident 7by7.

To say it was a simple mistake is laughable.

Does anyone really take any notice of placards..?

Shouldn't folk take more notice of answers to questions that haven't yet arrived..?

[smokie36]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

[smokie36]

At the BBC's thebigdebate with 8000 16/17 year olds they were trying to get some of them to sit in the don't know or no sections as there weren't enough no voters.

The no campaign speakers were booed off the stage at the end.....surprisingly the BBC edited this out!

Go check it out on twitter 7by7....you will see the comments from those that attended.

[transam]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

I really hope folk ask the YES campaigners for answers. I have read a lot from a YES campaigner and it was laughable. Give Scots folk answers, NOT what swashbucklers THINK, answers.

[smokie36]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

I really hope folk ask the YES campaigners for answers. I have read a lot from a YES campaigner and it was laughable. Give Scots folk answers, NOT what swashbucklers THINK, answers.

I can imagine you at Kempton Park transam....saying let's wait until they make the final turn before sticking a sixpence on anything....can't be too cautious!

[transam]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

[nontabury]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

Up to a couple of days ago he was in the Channel Islands, like any sensible Scotsman anywhere but Scotland, although he could now be in London supporting his favourite Scottish team "Tottenham Hotspur".

[jpinx]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Look at it this way -- most of the undecided voters are actually not going to vote NO - they are just too worried to say YES out loud. Come voting day they will

[transam]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Look at it this way -- most of the undecided voters are actually not going to vote NO - they are just too worried to say YES out loud. Come voting day they will

, North Korea just buried the YES campaign..........

[nontabury]

OK so what will happen after Thursday, I hope we can all agree that the best outcome would be for an outright winner, say 90% vote to either the Nationalist or to those opposed to the idea of separation. However at this late stage it seems this is not going to happen, if it's a narrow victory for the "YES" side I think those on the losing side will quietly accept the democratic decision of the majority and try and make the best of a bad job, while if it's a small victory for the "YES" side I'm not so sure. According to Alex Salmonds and the SNP they were saying up to a couple of months ago that they would not push for a re-run for at least another generation,say 25 yrs, yet as we've seen on recent TV forums relating to Scotland, there are some nationalist already saying that they will push for another go in 5-10yrs. Does the UK deserve this continuos uncertainty,personally I think not.

[smokie36]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

Up to a couple of days ago he was in the Channel Islands, like any sensible Scotsman anywhere but Scotland, although he could now be in London supporting his favourite Scottish team "Tottenham Hotspur".

I have a lot of Avios points nontabury.

[smokie36]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Well I have to concede that we know exactly what the no camp are offering.

One billion pounds a week in debt repayments.

A semi privatised NHS

An education system which favours the wealthy and creates an even wider divide between haves and have nots.

Leaving the EU and turning more and more right wing.

A lifetime of Tory rule being governed by the Southeast of England.

If that is your bag folks then I recommend you vote no.

[nontabury]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

Up to a couple of days ago he was in the Channel Islands, like any sensible Scotsman anywhere but Scotland, although he could now be in London supporting his favourite Scottish team "Tottenham Hotspur".

I have a lot of Avios points nontabury.

Hope not all acquired from Royal Jordanian airways, first time I came to Thailand 26yrs ago, flew with them, never again, complete shambles.

[smokie36]

Buchanan St yesterday....this is what the BBC don't want us to see......

[transam]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Well I have to concede that we know exactly what the no camp are offering.

One billion pounds a week in debt repayments.

A semi privatised NHS

An education system which favours the wealthy and creates an even wider divide between haves and have nots.

Leaving the EU and turning more and more right wing.

A lifetime of Tory rule being governed by the Southeast of England.

If that is your bag folks then I recommend you vote no.

, everything you have mentioned is stuff that costs money. So Salmoond will provide that money...?

[smokie36]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

Up to a couple of days ago he was in the Channel Islands, like any sensible Scotsman anywhere but Scotland, although he could now be in London supporting his favourite Scottish team "Tottenham Hotspur".

I have a lot of Avios points nontabury.

Hope not all acquired from Royal Jordanian airways, first time I came to Thailand 26yrs ago, flew with them, never again, complete shambles.

I'm happy to report they have improved greatly....and the food is as good as BA.

[smokie36]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Well I have to concede that we know exactly what the no camp are offering.

One billion pounds a week in debt repayments.

A semi privatised NHS

An education system which favours the wealthy and creates an even wider divide between haves and have nots.

Leaving the EU and turning more and more right wing.

A lifetime of Tory rule being governed by the Southeast of England.

If that is your bag folks then I recommend you vote no.

, everything you have mentioned is stuff that costs money. So Salmoond will provide that money...?

Yes transam....stay with the Tory south and get even poorer while we make loadsamoney!

Remember that phrase?.....yes so do I.

[jpinx]

Only 7% "don't knows".

Yes 46%

No 47%

Don't know 7%

93% say they are decided and will not change

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/are-you-sure-that-you-will-definitely-vote-this-way-or-do-you-think-you-might-s

The Don't Knows will decide this

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/should-scotland-be-an-independent-country-1#line

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/

Given the tight outcome let's hope that the losers accept graciously and work to progress Scotland in whatever form it might be.

[inutil]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Ill be honest, ive been voraciously reading all day, and im swinging back to Yes if anything. And i put myself as a nice middle ground voter that wants to see all sides. Its exciting. If anything, the polls from the last twenty four hours show such wild variation that this is still up for grabs with plenty of time for momentum to really build. The yes campaign are also going to hammer the No campaign on:

1. BBC bias.

2. The empty promises of devo max.

3. An orchestrated campaign of scaremongering among business leaders in collusion with SPECIFICALLY David Cameron.

If they make either of those stick (and they are making at least the first two stick at the moment), thats a lot of potential voters theyre playing to.

The no campaign on the other hand are offering more of the same.

It would be tough to suggest, even for me, that the no campaign are consolidating now. Theyre under siege and only a concerted drive on at least that second point will see them through. But the promises have to have substance behind them, and if they let that cat out of the bag, you watch the backbenchers crawl from tehir hole to rubbish any new powers to Scotland and burst the balloon. Scary times for no. Im simultaneously thrilled and terrified.

[smokie36]

Facts are facts Smokes, not about a horse stumbling at the final furlong cos it's run out of steam. Facts must be taken into consideration all the way to the finishing post. The YES guys have NOOOOOOOOOO answers, nothing. 50% of Scots see this and will NOT be taken in by sales talk, why, cos they ain't daft.

If the YES folk want to achieve their aim by "spinning" facts, well, just hope folk read through it. I would love to say something here which the YES folk would to hear, but I will not sink to that depth .......

Ill be honest, ive been voraciously reading all day, and im swinging back to Yes if anything. And i put myself as a nice middle ground voter that wants to see all sides. Its exciting. If anything, the polls from the last twenty four hours show such wild variation that this is still up for grabs with plenty of time for momentum to really build. The yes campaign are also going to hammer the No campaign on:

1. BBC bias.

2. The empty promises of devo max.

3. An orchestrated campaign of scaremongering among business leaders in collusion with SPECIFICALLY David Cameron.

If they make either of those stick (and they are making at least the first two stick at the moment), thats a lot of potential voters theyre playing to.

The no campaign on the other hand are offering more of the same.

It would be tough to suggest, even for me, that the no campaign are consolidating now. Theyre under siege and only a concerted drive on at least that second point will see them through. But the promises have to have substance behind them, and if they let that cat out of the bag, you watch the backbenchers crawl from tehir hole to rubbish any new powers to Scotland and burst the balloon. Scary times for no. Im simultaneously thrilled and terrified.

Simple truth is they can't say any more on Devo Max although \Cameron would love to give concessions at this point to save his skin.

They have already stepped dangerously close to breaking the election rules and I can't see them trying it again.

Unless sheer desperation sets in by Wednesday......

On another note....what do you think Rupert Murdoch is doing in Scotland this week?