Why do Western men marry Thai girls of ill-repute?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If they enjoyed it, you wouldn't have to pay them.

If I thought someone would pay me to do something I enjoyed, I would.

So faulty logic on your part.

(Not that I think most of them enjoy doing it with customers anyway, there's always one or two exceptions)

[dhream]

Some people should spend some time inside a female skin. Say a month, so they get the whole ovulation cycle experience too, wonder how they'd judge the other gender then? We men have a lot to answer for the way women are to a large degree neurotic about a normal healthy human drive that should be celebrated and indulged.

I would be more than happy to spend 5 years as a woman,

In that time I would expect to get married, have two kids, then divorce the guy, getting his house, alimony and child maint.

Being a woman would be brilliant, free money for life!

Cynical, but true! I still think we have the better deal all round. If I could be hot young thing for five years, I'd go into porn, then high end escorting, no question! Why drag kids around after you've made it in the rarified world of a top call-girl. Actually why drag kids around at any age or gender, but that just crazy ol me.

[dhream]

To take your hypothesis to an absurd conclusion, If I pay for dinner and drinks on a date, then we have a one-night stand, is it prostitution? Or was she just having her needs met too?

No, that's a normal dinner date.

Prostitutes exchange sex for cash, if the process is indirect, they aren't prostitutes.

OK so why is the fact that cash is paid directly for a service, taboo? Why is 'prostitution' so wrong? If sex on a dinner-date is 'normal'?

If she mowed my lawn that's Ok, if she cooks my dinner, that's OK, if she even gives me a non sexual massage that's Ok, why is sexual relief then not OK? Stripped, as it were of how one processes it mentally (this vague amorphous thing called morality) where in any other logical sense, is the problem?

I was merely correcting your definition, I have not stated if it is in any way right or wrong.

I know, I must admit I was baiting you, hoping for some moral hogwash I could demolish... Immature of me, but I was, and still am, procrastinating on fixing my bricked android device...

[benalibina]

If they enjoyed it, you wouldn't have to pay them.

Well......no need to write anymore on this topic....for you.....you have totally discredited yourself.....songsaan.

[dhream]

Maybe someone should do a poll. Say you meet a girl in a shop, you date her for a while and eventually live with her or marry her. A year into the relationship she reveals that for six months she worked in a bar when she was young to pay for her mums operation or something like that.

What are you going to do? Divorce her because she was a bargirl or because she didn't fully disclose.

Answer that question honestly and you will know what your relationship to your partner is. No need to disclose it here but just ask yourself.

And now the same question, but she had worked in a Pattaya go-go for 20 years?

This is not a baited question, but are you playing devils advocate, AOA, or are you inferring there might be degrees of 'culpability' in length of carnal service?

For me, it's unequivocal, girl is/was either on the game or not. 20 years or a fortnight are immaterial. Unlike someone who was a lifetime thief, for example, It's not something I'd put a moral judgement on, but more calling a spade a spade and not a cake-trowel. I might consider other factors were i to find myself in this situation. Terminal stage Syphilis in the body of the confessor might be one.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

@dhream,

Can't say it bothers me, if someone is selling a product I want to buy, and the price is right .......

Re, sexual partners, can't see the difference, if they ain't a virgin, does it matter how many did it between the first and you?

I always go along to the HIV test clinic before taking on a new partner, we both get tested & read each others results.

Anything else, I can live with.

PS

Thais take antibiotic courses about 3x a year, most disease is quickly destroyed before it takes hold.

Edited September 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[dhream]

I didn't come here to get laid. Not everybody did you know.

"But, Yossarian" said Colonel Cathcart "Suppose everyone felt that way?" "Then I'd be a damned fool to feel any other way." said Yossarian.

[Munger]

I prefer for them to meet me in my room and I don't care what anyone calls them, as long as it is polite.

Indeed. And "whore" isn't polite, but says a lot about the attitude of the person who uses it!

It's an unpleasant business whatever you call it. Even if you call them bar girls and pretend they enjoy it.

So how do you know they don't enjoy it? You obviously have a lot of experience in this area what clues should we look for that indicate not enjoying?

Would you enjoy a sex partner 20 to 40 years older than you. Wise up.

[dhream]

@dhream,

Can't say it bothers me, if someone is selling a product I want to buy, and the price is right .......

Re, sexual partners, can't see the difference, if they ain't a virgin, does it matter how many did it between the first and you?

I always go along to the HIV test clinic before taking on a new partner, we both get tested & read each others results.

Anything else, I can live with.

PS

Thais take antibiotic courses about 3x a year, most disease is quickly destroyed before it takes hold.

I won't get into the antibiotic vs superbug debate, but... if you are saying they dose as a matter of routine, then taking antibiotics 'on spec' is maybe not the best way to use them.

Getting that test done before leaping between the sheets is a wise wise move, I was complacent, and tested late, this fortunately was not life-changing for me, but neither was it in my best interests going forward, lesson learned.

[dhream]

Western men think that bar girls are not actually prostitutes and that all Thai women would jump in a bus to Pattaya or Pat Pong if they had financial difficulties.

Also, they wouldn't have a chance of getting such a woman if they weren't for sale.

Your first sentence is poppycock.

Your second sentence applies to Hollywood stars too. Women use youth and beauty as a commodity. I have no problem with that. And for anyone with the money, every one of them is 'for sale' we just call it 'marriage' whereby you pay her off in instalments, often long after she is once more 'on the market'.

I've tried both methods, and from here on in, I'm 'renting' my wives by the hour. And my maids by the week.

Edited September 20, 2014 by dhream

[Ulysses G.]

Would you enjoy a sex partner 20 to 40 years older than you. Wise up.

I would have when I was a horny young lad. I sued to fantasize about my teachers in their 60s - and every other female that I knew. Everyone is different when it comes to sexual desire.

[SoiBiker]

Oh my Lord. Some of you really are that deluded. Amazing.

[benalibina]

Oh my Lord. Some of you really are that deluded. Amazing.

Your comment about somedody doing a job and because said person is liking it, that individual should do it for free........that is delusional. Get it ?

[thailiketoo]

Not if the job involves a sweaty old farang on top of you.

Hugh Grant is a sweaty olf Farang? I didn't say anything about old men nor did anyone else. Sorry there are men in Thailand going with bar girls who are not sweaty old Farang.

I realize you don't like or respect older gentlemen but that's hardly what we were talking about.

I asked, "So how do you know they don't enjoy it? You obviously have a lot of experience in this area what clues should we look for that indicate not enjoying?" Not old men, people like Tiger Woods, Eddie Murphy (arrested with a ladyboy) or Hugh Grant?

[SoiBiker]

I'm guessing that your partners enjoyment probably isn't much of a priority in this kind of situation.

[dhream]

Oh my Lord. Some of you really are that deluded. Amazing.

SoiBiker, what's the harm in it, sexual delusion? If you don't approve, that's your prerogative, but you're the deluded one if you think that many of us here have no right to be frank and quite comfortable about our baser motivations for living here. There are many motivations besides the easy cheap prostitutes, many of those motivations we would likely share. Why we should feel shame, or worry what our mommas think (as one preachy individual put it a few posts back) of the tart we are squiring, is frankly nobody's business but our own.

Just because many of us choose to pay for non-coerced sexual encounters with adults (of any gender) and are quite earthy about it, does not make us less capable of being thinking, sensitive, and considerate partners during these encounters, and elsewhere in our lives.

Unlike you, I don't profess to speak for what my partners think or feel about it at all. I'd be happy to hear they are feeling relieved to be feeding a child or elderly relative rather than a drug habit, but who am I to judge?

When I am with them, we have a few drinks and share a few jokes, it is not perverse sex, in the vanilla sense of what perverse means, at any rate. They get a nice bath, a robe and a clean bed for as long as they wish to stay and nap. Plus any food or goodies lying about. I'm not saying "Gee, what a nice guy i am!" I'm just saying its an agreeable liaison, date with benefits, for both of us.

You should try it sometime.

Instead of impotently watching the scare docos about the criminal gangs and enslaved women, all of which would disappear overnight if people like you in authority lightened the hell up, and let women sell sex lawfully, like anything else that is marketable and in demand.

It will never go away, and the pornification of everything is here to stay, like it or not. It's just sex, man. It's an appetite, that's all it is. Civilisation as we know it will go on, indeed, without sex, it cannot exist! So why the hysteria? Or in your case sulky disapproval.

You may as well de-stigmatise it in your own psyche and partake.

If not then let us be. Nobody here is bagging you by saying that riding your bike in Thai streets is disapproved of, deluded, and risky, (I think it is, but if you accept that risk as part of the package, who am I to deny you your cycling pleasure, and good luck to you) so extend me that reciprocal courtesy.

Finally, I can't presume to know your state of mind, but you don't sound terribly happy, old boy. ;-)

Edited September 20, 2014 by dhream

[SoiBiker]

Sorry, but 'sensitive partners'? With someone you're exploiting?

Incredible.

[thailiketoo]

I'm guessing that your partners enjoyment probably isn't much of a priority in this kind of situation.

So now you know about the personal lives of Hugh Grant, Tiger Woods, Eddie Murphy and me? Isn't that being a little presumptuous? How did you get such information about us and others in as you said, "That kind of situation?" You do seem to know a lot about it. I'm interested in knowing how you came by all of this knowledge.

[thailiketoo]

Sorry, but 'sensitive partners'? With someone you're exploiting?

Incredible.

I pay women. Men who don't pay women are exploiting by baiting ladies with the thought of a later reward while providing services in the present for free.

Not that women don't do the same thing but at least the couple who exchanges cash is up front about motive.

[dhream]

Sorry, but 'sensitive partners'? With someone you're exploiting?

Incredible.

How is someone who willingly offers her charms for a not insignificant amount of cash by any local standard, plus 'taxi' tip, that she gets to keep all to herself, being 'exploited'?

Your detailed womens shelter data and prostitute interview evidence is where?

I see no need to defend myself at all against your trite, sniffy, and ignorant pronouncements that are likely borrowed from those equally misguided 'friends of humanity' at Lonely Planet.

There is no one more tedious than the well-meaning intellectual, who has never bothered to discover that there may, in fact, be several hundred thousand content, willing, autonomous sex workers at large in Thailand.

Because then you'd lose your entire wobbly and very dated argument.

Which is based on nothing more than old data your own hang ups, and a quaint Dickinsonian notion, disproved by many prostitutes themselves, that they are all waiting to be 'saved'.

You have advanced no intelligible argument other than your harrumphing one-liners, designed to intimidate us with your boundless compassion and deep understanding of the exploited prostitute and her lot.

With a reasonable command of English, some of these women, at least in my experience, share at length on their personal lives during a visit, chattering away brightly about their families, and sometimes, odd clients they meet, and that is not the behaviour of an exploited, fearful individual. But you and your kumbaya mates wouldn't have a clue about that.

It is breathtaking that you and your lot have 'decided' that because a transaction takes place, and in some cases, women are harmed (possibly no more than in many marriages, which is not to condone it, but to add some real life perspective) that there can not conceivably exist any human interaction of value and positive emotion.

You reduce the act to an exchange of cash and dna. It is anathema to you to even consider any possibility of human warmth or emotional merit whatsoever in the transaction, particularly for the woman. What a barren clinical vista the romantic landscape of your mind must be! All the charm of an equation-filled whiteboard.

To reduce it all to plain English, you would not know 'exploitation' if it was up you sideways in a songthaew filled with go-go girls.

There is more than enough opportunity in Thailand for young women to earn a living wage in a myriad of jobs, and it may surprise you to know that, sex work, with selected refined clients, is one of the significantly better options nowadays. A hell of a lot better than the centuries past, where women in Thailand were sexual slaves to their husbands on a complex and cruel three-tier 'mea noi' hierarchy. Probably something else you know bugger-all about.

Exploited? Do be brief!

[dhream]

I'm guessing that your partners enjoyment probably isn't much of a priority in this kind of situation.

No it's all about maximum exploitation, degradation, humiliation, and if possible not even paying them. The icing on the cake is getting them arrested for soliciting after you've done the deed! (You'd LOVE a genuine answer like that, wouldn't you, Pilgrim?)

[dhream]

Would you enjoy a sex partner 20 to 40 years older than you. Wise up.

I would have when I was a horny young lad. I sued to fantasize about my teachers in their 60s - and every other female that I knew. Everyone is different when it comes to sexual desire.

I was 19 she was 47, we had a torrid tryst on several occasions, Ivy, the busty divorcee was unforgettable... She sure as hell wise'd my young hide up!

Edited September 20, 2014 by dhream

[dhream]

Not if the job involves a sweaty old farang on top of you.

Hugh Grant is a sweaty olf Farang? I didn't say anything about old men nor did anyone else. Sorry there are men in Thailand going with bar girls who are not sweaty old Farang.

I realize you don't like or respect older gentlemen but that's hardly what we were talking about.

I asked, "So how do you know they don't enjoy it? You obviously have a lot of experience in this area what clues should we look for that indicate not enjoying?" Not old men, people like Tiger Woods, Eddie Murphy (arrested with a ladyboy) or Hugh Grant?

Here we go again, the one-line expert on Thai love, romance, and sexuality (as it relates to hookers he's never been with) is now expounding on how the missionary position with older men simply ruins what little love for the job was left in a working girls benighted existence. On yer bike!

You still haven't told us SoiPiker, what qualifies you to cast aspersions upon us, from your lofty bicycle seat, but then you can't -because the answer is 'nada'. You two-wheeled troll.

Edited September 20, 2014 by dhream

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I'm guessing that your partners enjoyment probably isn't much of a priority in this kind of situation.

If I'm paying, her enjoyment has no importance at all.

In fact, if she admitted to enjoyment, I wouldn't pay.

When you buy gas for your m/c, do you ask the pump attendant if they enjoyed serving you?

When you eat out, do you ask the waitress if she was pleasured by waiting your table?

Edited September 21, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[metisdead]

Posts containing inappropriate language have been removed as well as the replies.

[Kabula]

Having owned a Private a investigation Agency for 25 years in Arizona I've seen it all!

I believe most women and men fall under the category of ill repute after digging into their personal history.

A saying comes to mind. "I never married a hooker because of her occupation and never married a regular woman because she didn't have the hooker experience!"

[dhream]

Having owned a Private a investigation Agency for 25 years in Arizona I've seen it all!

I believe most women and men fall under the category of ill repute after digging into their personal history.

A saying comes to mind. "I never married a hooker because of her occupation and never married a regular woman because she didn't have the hooker experience!"

Here speaks a man of integrity. I find the whole 'ill-repute' line ridiculously dated, and therefore troublesome to begin with.

The worst are the god-botherers, who, in their secret envy of those who are brave enough to follow their bliss, conveniently excise from their muddled minds their own gods advice to refrain from casting the first stone.

Come to think of it 'Stoning' for having a little on the side? How beyond belief is that? And it still goes on today.

Heartrendingly barbaric, some of us are no better than insects.

I will say it again and until my last breath. If the so-called smartest guys in the room, would get off their moral high-horse about who gets to hump who and how, the world would be a happier, less crime ridden, and much less sexually exploitative, place.

The root of the evil lies in their calcified sexual 'commandments' not in the union of two consenting adults in private.

Go a little further back and we all enjoyed a happier pagan existence, with female gods, and fertility rites being honoured and worshipped, not covered up, belittled, feared, and shamed. How did we ever fall for all that garbage imported from the Middle East anyway?

We didn't. it was foisted upon us by the terror of the 'Holy' Roman Imperial sword. History gradually made it our 'truth', and now look at the mess we're in.

Edited September 21, 2014 by dhream

[dhream]

Same old same old from Thai visa. Buying a lady dinner is the same as prostitution. All women aspire to trapping a man into marriage and fleecing him.

No wonder people laugh at this place, and you guys couldn't get laid back home.

No, you are blatantly being disingenuous and downright misquoting in the above and you know it.

The remark about dinner is only used often as it serves to show how ridiculous YOUR morality is, not ours, just in a way your sunday-school mind can grasp. Alas, even that over-simplified example of how your morality splits hairs to a ridiculous degree, goes over your closed-minded little noggin.

If you are going to take the moral high ground you had better be BEYOND reproach in your own use of argument.

I'm sure people do laugh at this place (I presume you mean Thailand) but it's not because of the sex industry, which is a model of efficiency in a business sense. The entire nation would do well to adopt it as a benchmark, hell, it couldn't do any worse!

You are the one who sounds like you have not been laid in a very long time, buddy.

Look at all the fanatics of the world, hysterically tearing off heads and wanting it all their way, what is the one other glaring issue they have? They hate and fear the power of human sexuality, particularly as expressed through the female channel. They are miserable frothy-mouthed, murderous fruitcakes, if that is the end-product of sexual suppression, control, modesty, or whatever the hell you pretty it up as, you can keep it.

Your final remark is just childish, but hey, sunday-school in, sunday-school out...

[Sigurris]

Wise words indeed. In the West sex is still a dirty word and the act of sex seen as something less than wholesome. Yet it is what makes us. And G-d forbid anyone who looks beyond the missionary lights off type of sex. If you want to buy some toys to enjoy in the privacy of your own home you are forced into seedy dark shops (although, thankfully, that is changing, certainly in Aus) and made to feel somehow tainted. Sex is healthy, fun, wonderful and, for the religious out there G-ds gift to us.

The number of partners is seen as critical by some men who never need to count their own. (In the UK a man who sleeps with 50 women is jack the lad but a woman is a slut).

And who is the person of ill repute( a middle age western term) the person who pays or the person who is paid. This is 2014 so come on lets get real.

I have probably slept with more people than a lot of bg's I have also committed crimes (and paid my price to society). In my youth I was your mothers worst nightmare. But I changed. Cannot others be granted the opportunity to change?

[benalibina]

Same old same old from Thai visa. Buying a lady dinner is the same as prostitution. All women aspire to trapping a man into marriage and fleecing him.

No wonder people laugh at this place, and you guys couldn't get laid back home.

No, you are blatantly being disingenuous and downright misquoting in the above and you know it.

The remark about dinner is only used often as it serves to show how ridiculous YOUR morality is, not ours, just in a way your sunday-school mind can grasp. Alas, even that over-simplified example of how your morality splits hairs to a ridiculous degree, goes over your closed-minded little noggin.

If you are going to take the moral high ground you had better be BEYOND reproach in your own use of argument.

I'm sure people do laugh at this place (I presume you mean Thailand) but it's not because of the sex industry, which is a model of efficiency in a business sense. The entire nation would do well to adopt it as a benchmark, hell, it couldn't do any worse!

You are the one who sounds like you have not been laid in a very long time, buddy.

Look at all the fanatics of the world, hysterically tearing off heads and wanting it all their way, what is the one other glaring issue they have? They hate and fear the power of human sexuality, particularly as expressed through the female channel. They are miserable frothy-mouthed, murderous fruitcakes, if that is the end-product of sexual suppression, control, modesty, or whatever the hell you pretty it up as, you can keep it.

Your final remark is just childish, but hey, sunday-school in, sunday-school out...

You seem to enjoy this topic.