Lao children are better educated than Thai kids

[timewilltell]

Basically a rubbish interpretation of a good report. Nowhere in the report does it back up that headline.

Good to see a post from someone with the ability to read and comprehend properly. The report does not conclude what the headline states, and is based on a limited survey of "business executives", not on any educational results .

Ironically, almost every post here, apart from Wilcopops, shows a lack of ability to understand something as simple as the OP report then proceeds to critcise the quality of the Thai education system.

Don't you think business executives might have a valuable opinion on the merits or otherwise of the level of education of the people presenting themselves for employment. How better to measure the success of a country's education system? Any method you might come up with would be flawed anyway.

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[timewilltell]

claffey, on 11 Sept 2014 - 09:37, said:

Yooyung, on 11 Sept 2014 - 08:30, said:

Year after year after year...we hear the same old tune about the education system here. Its funny in a sad kind of way. Thais love to call anyting they consider unfashionable or stupid as being 'Laos'......How ironic this is then.....

This REALLY needs to be sorted out NOW! I am working at a government school at the moment......not for much longer because I have had it! Thai schools are, in the main a joke. Thai teachers are dinosaurs that are still using teaching techniques that come from 1937. I often walk past the Thai teachers classes and more often than not they are sitting on their backsides with NO interaction with students! They simply write a load of info on the board and the kids copy it.....after that thier job is done!!!! I would be ashamed to teach in such a way. I feel it is my job to try and engage the students, interact with them, get them questioning me. I am the odd one out it seems.

The head of English at my school is a lovely lady that has a Masters degree in English. I often have to speak Thai with her as, if I dont, she wont understand what I am on about! Unfortunately this is common here. I have only met a handful of Thai English teachers that can actually have a conversation past the level of a 5 or 6 year old. I have to 'teach the teachers' sometimes and guess who are the ones that dont show up???!!!! You guessed it....the Thai English teachers!!! Why? Because its such a MASSIVE loss of face for them to be in a room with a native speaker.....I mean, what if I ask them a question? If I do everyone will see that the reality is that they CANNOT speak English!!! They are the teachers that most need to be there when I am 'teaching the teachers' What hope do the kids have? They see me once a week, twice if they are lucky. The rest of their exposure to English is through these numpties that cannot do their jobs properly.

I am looking forward to AEC opening. Thailand is slowly but surely starting to wake up to the fact that its not the centre of the universe. Its starting to realise that its not looking too good in comparision to its other ASEAN friends. It could go either way, but I am a bit cynical. I think Thailand will do what it always does, it will sweep things under the carpet, it will withdraw from a fight on a level playing field, a fight in which it will most surely ge a very bloody nose. AEC will be just a name, the Thais will find a way to get around all the horrible new rules that will show them up. It will be AEC on paper only. In reality nothing will change. The nepotism that is the cause of so much incomptence here will stay. The sad thing for Thailand is that talented people get cast aside by others with connections, or money. I have so many lovely and smart students in my classes....but so what? The system is against them. I just cannot see this place doing what is required to enable it to really, I mean really compete with places like Singapore. I hope I am wrong.

Am I being cynical? After reading headlines for years and years about how the educations system needs to change...and nothing happening...yes I am being cynical. I think the answer to the problem is clear. If you want an education.....go to Laos!

So most Thais cant speak English beyond the level of a 5 or six year old?? So let me ask you this..How many people in the UK can speak French or German or any other language beyond the level of a six year old?? I don't speak Thai beyond the level of a six year old but its not from lack of trying!

While the Thai educational system has many shortcomings, these type of surveys need to be taken with a pinch of salt!!

Many of us on this forum are married to Thais. If the education system is producing such robotic people incapable of critical thought then we need to ask the question why so many'educated' westerners marry Thais?????

The perfect educational system doesn't exist. We need to be culturally aware when analyzing the Thai system and remember that its developed from a different way of thinking. Let's not be arrogant and assume that Western systems are the best. I've just returned here from the UK. People are miserable there and struggling to survive. Compare that with the vibrancy and positive outlook of Thai's. Maybe we are the ones who have it all wrong????

Oh dear, here we go again. The simple reason, read simple for simple folk, is that people in the UK already speak English duh... and why do Thais need to learn English, because it is the international language of business/tourism, I hope this helps you.

A huge amount of Thai business is with China and Japan. Therefore it may be beneficial to some Thai people, who would like to be successful, to become fluent in Chinese or Japanese...duh...

Thai people who speak Japanese or Chinese have a much higher earning potential than if they speak only Thai and some English.

If people in the UK or US could learn another language they might well be less arrogant and more culturally aware.

Instead of nitpicking why don't you engage with me upon my main point: We shouldn't judge Thai people using our set of western values. Thai people have their own values and we should respect and accept that...

That's why so many Westerners complain constantly and never understand Thai people. They judge them by our own values and compare everything to back home. For example, an American guy told me this week that Thailand is really catching up with the West. I replied: I hope the west can catch up with Thailand in terms of whats really important in life, such as family and taking care of each other...I believed his head then fell off with the thoughts of an Asian country being better at something than the West!!

I actually agree with some of what you say. Thai's do have their own set of values which include deception, lying, selfishness, lack of personal responsibility, xenophobia and a whole lot of other undesirable traits. Westerners also have a whole lot of undesirable traits which include the above at a lower general level along with the world owes me a living idea and a terrible sense of family values taking societies overall. Southern European countries seem to do better with the latter. Thailand's family values that you refer to are not so great so far as I can see, with their children often subbed out to grandparents or friends and families often split apart geographically. I am not sure Thailand is ahead of many societies in that regard.

Every society has good values and bad values anyway. The issue comes when members of that society cannot see the bad values and try to paint them as good - that is simply delusion.

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[timewilltell]

Year after year after year...we hear the same old tune about the education system here. Its funny in a sad kind of way. Thais love to call anyting they consider unfashionable or stupid as being 'Laos'......How ironic this is then.....

This REALLY needs to be sorted out NOW! I am working at a government school at the moment......not for much longer because I have had it! Thai schools are, in the main a joke. Thai teachers are dinosaurs that are still using teaching techniques that come from 1937. I often walk past the Thai teachers classes and more often than not they are sitting on their backsides with NO interaction with students! They simply write a load of info on the board and the kids copy it.....after that thier job is done!!!! I would be ashamed to teach in such a way. I feel it is my job to try and engage the students, interact with them, get them questioning me. I am the odd one out it seems.

The head of English at my school is a lovely lady that has a Masters degree in English. I often have to speak Thai with her as, if I dont, she wont understand what I am on about! Unfortunately this is common here. I have only met a handful of Thai English teachers that can actually have a conversation past the level of a 5 or 6 year old. I have to 'teach the teachers' sometimes and guess who are the ones that dont show up???!!!! You guessed it....the Thai English teachers!!! Why? Because its such a MASSIVE loss of face for them to be in a room with a native speaker.....I mean, what if I ask them a question? If I do everyone will see that the reality is that they CANNOT speak English!!! They are the teachers that most need to be there when I am 'teaching the teachers' What hope do the kids have? They see me once a week, twice if they are lucky. The rest of their exposure to English is through these numpties that cannot do their jobs properly.

I am looking forward to AEC opening. Thailand is slowly but surely starting to wake up to the fact that its not the centre of the universe. Its starting to realise that its not looking too good in comparision to its other ASEAN friends. It could go either way, but I am a bit cynical. I think Thailand will do what it always does, it will sweep things under the carpet, it will withdraw from a fight on a level playing field, a fight in which it will most surely ge a very bloody nose. AEC will be just a name, the Thais will find a way to get around all the horrible new rules that will show them up. It will be AEC on paper only. In reality nothing will change. The nepotism that is the cause of so much incomptence here will stay. The sad thing for Thailand is that talented people get cast aside by others with connections, or money. I have so many lovely and smart students in my classes....but so what? The system is against them. I just cannot see this place doing what is required to enable it to really, I mean really compete with places like Singapore. I hope I am wrong.

Am I being cynical? After reading headlines for years and years about how the educations system needs to change...and nothing happening...yes I am being cynical. I think the answer to the problem is clear. If you want an education.....go to Laos!

So most Thais cant speak English beyond the level of a 5 or six year old?? So let me ask you this..How many people in the UK can speak French or German or any other language beyond the level of a six year old?? I don't speak Thai beyond the level of a six year old but its not from lack of trying!

While the Thai educational system has many shortcomings, these type of surveys need to be taken with a pinch of salt!!

Many of us on this forum are married to Thais. If the education system is producing such robotic people incapable of critical thought then we need to ask the question why so many'educated' westerners marry Thais?????

The perfect educational system doesn't exist. We need to be culturally aware when analyzing the Thai system and remember that its developed from a different way of thinking. Let's not be arrogant and assume that Western systems are the best. I've just returned here from the UK. People are miserable there and struggling to survive. Compare that with the vibrancy and positive outlook of Thai's. Maybe we are the ones who have it all wrong????

Can you read better than a 6 yr old !!!!!! yooyung said that thai ENGLISH TEACHERS !!!!! cannot speak beyond the level of a 6 yr old not all thais . I was teaching some pupils to speak thai for free in my house on weekends and the local school english teacher stopped me because i was teaching them to write the alphabet wrong ie not the same as a 1950`s scripted typewriter. Went to see him ,showed me his degree but could not speak a word of english

Maybe you should try teaching them English for free instead?

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[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

My kid was spanked by the teacher because she thought that his hair was too long (not longer then half inch) and my son is in a private school. So far he has not had any lesson in geography at all, so I have to teach him that myself after school. The English teacher is from the Philippines and it's easier to understand a guy with heavy Scottish accent then her. And for this shit I have to pay for! I don't even want to think about how it is in the free government schools in Thailand, I fell very sad for the kids in this country for the shitty school system they got.

And you didn't take your kid out of the school? Or report the teacher?

I told the teacher if she spank my son again I give her a good spanking, it stopped after that. It's the only private school in town so I got no other options.

[me313]

Its a pity and a shame that this is the case in Thailand, Thais are not stupid or slow learners, the ones that I have taken under my wing, have proven to be very quick learners and shown how cleaver, Thais really are.

The culture of "I am older than you so therefore I am smarter than you" and "Do as I say not as I do" doesn't help, as with not allowing the children to debate with or question the all revered Ajarn as individuals, does not allow them to grow, explore and develop as western educated children do.

I think It will be very hard to uproot this age old culture and if they do put in a plan of change, who is going to implement it? as the Thai Teachers will have no experience or understanding of it.

Just my opinion

Well written--cheers

[Artisi]

My kid was spanked by the teacher because she thought that his hair was too long (not longer then half inch) and my son is in a private school. So far he has not had any lesson in geography at all, so I have to teach him that myself after school. The English teacher is from the Philippines and it's easier to understand a guy with heavy Scottish accent then her. And for this shit I have to pay for! I don't even want to think about how it is in the free government schools in Thailand, I fell very sad for the kids in this country for the shitty school system they got.

And you didn't take your kid out of the school? Or report the teacher?

I told the teacher if she spank my son again I give her a good spanking, it stopped after that. It's the only private school in town so I got no other options.

Be careful, she might just like a good spanking.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Artisi

[wilcopops]

The report doesn't actually say what the topic title says though, does it?

[bunnydrops]

Here is an example of Thai English teaching.

The kids (10 year old) have to have 2 hours of English a week and then they get an assignment for the week.

Here is last weeks assignment

Translate the following English sentences into Thai.

Which lists has eggs on them?

Which lists has chickens on them?

Which lists has apples on them?

Which lists has bananas on them?

etc.

Ten sentences, all with only one word different. That is it for the week.

[3NUMBAS]

they dont have all the gadgets to waste time on so do more usefull things .

[anotheruser]

Dumber than Lao people? That is a quite fitting and well deserved accolade. Try not to tink too mut.

[wilcopops]

Here is an example of Thai English teaching.

The kids (10 year old) have to have 2 hours of English a week and then they get an assignment for the week.

Here is last weeks assignment

Translate the following English sentences into Thai.

Which lists has eggs on them?

Which lists has chickens on them?

Which lists has apples on them?

Which lists has bananas on them?

etc.

Ten sentences, all with only one word different. That is it for the week.

OK - I think you need to explain the educational theory behind this and then lay out the reasons you find it unsatisfactory.......of course you can't, because you no nothing either about education or trying to put forward an argument.

bet you failed the test too!

[anotheruser]

Yes, but GDP per person in Laos is considerably lower than Thailand.

And even if GDP per person in Laos is growing quicker than Thailand, it will take them decades to catch up with Thailand. And it's not going to happen.

Just as absurd as being scared that GDP per person in places like Bulgaria, Romania and Poland, that they will catch up with Britain !

Measuring wealth and comparing it to intelligence, is not valid. Germany won't catch up to the USA ever. Does that make Americans more educated and smarter than Germans? To put it in perspective Laos has a population one tenth the size of Thailand. So for Laos to grow as big in Thailand isn't possible. Given that Laos is also a landlocked country doesn't add to it's potential economic growth. That being said that Laos has an over all growth rate that exceeds Thailand's at the moment is nothing remarkable. Thailand can only build so many more malls and condos. The market is completely saturated and this will lead to stagnation. Obviously Thailand's neighbors can only grow given this.

Thailand will go into a state of recession soon as they have no more real avenues to improve upon. Everything is already over exploited.

The PM, general or whoever he is should try to outpace the growth in Laos on a person for person basis. If that is not possible it is pretty sad. Boy, oh boy Thailand is being compared to Laos. Ten years ago this would have been unthinkable.

[lungmi]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Year after year after year...we hear the same old tune about the education system here. Its funny in a sad kind of way. Thais love to call anyting they consider unfashionable or stupid as being 'Laos'......How ironic this is then.....

This REALLY needs to be sorted out NOW! I am working at a government school at the moment......not for much longer because I have had it! Thai schools are, in the main a joke. Thai teachers are dinosaurs that are still using teaching techniques that come from 1937. I often walk past the Thai teachers classes and more often than not they are sitting on their backsides with NO interaction with students! They simply write a load of info on the board and the kids copy it.....after that thier job is done!!!! I would be ashamed to teach in such a way. I feel it is my job to try and engage the students, interact with them, get them questioning me. I am the odd one out it seems.

The head of English at my school is a lovely lady that has a Masters degree in English. I often have to speak Thai with her as, if I dont, she wont understand what I am on about! Unfortunately this is common here. I have only met a handful of Thai English teachers that can actually have a conversation past the level of a 5 or 6 year old. I have to 'teach the teachers' sometimes and guess who are the ones that dont show up???!!!! You guessed it....the Thai English teachers!!! Why? Because its such a MASSIVE loss of face for them to be in a room with a native speaker.....I mean, what if I ask them a question? If I do everyone will see that the reality is that they CANNOT speak English!!! They are the teachers that most need to be there when I am 'teaching the teachers' What hope do the kids have? They see me once a week, twice if they are lucky. The rest of their exposure to English is through these numpties that cannot do their jobs properly.

I am looking forward to AEC opening. Thailand is slowly but surely starting to wake up to the fact that its not the centre of the universe. Its starting to realise that its not looking too good in comparision to its other ASEAN friends. It could go either way, but I am a bit cynical. I think Thailand will do what it always does, it will sweep things under the carpet, it will withdraw from a fight on a level playing field, a fight in which it will most surely ge a very bloody nose. AEC will be just a name, the Thais will find a way to get around all the horrible new rules that will show them up. It will be AEC on paper only. In reality nothing will change. The nepotism that is the cause of so much incomptence here will stay. The sad thing for Thailand is that talented people get cast aside by others with connections, or money. I have so many lovely and smart students in my classes....but so what? The system is against them. I just cannot see this place doing what is required to enable it to really, I mean really compete with places like Singapore. I hope I am wrong.

Am I being cynical? After reading headlines for years and years about how the educations system needs to change...and nothing happening...yes I am being cynical. I think the answer to the problem is clear. If you want an education.....go to Laos!

I agree. I'm English Teacher (no work permit, but Buddhist volunteer ) in a Hill Tribe school. My students (Hmong, Karen, Lisu and Thai) after

one year have a basic knowledge of English and how to use it. Good pronounciation, learning by doing (fish farm, garden, herbs).

I'm supported by the foundation of Princess Sirindhorn as part of intercultural learning.

[timewilltell]

Here is an example of Thai English teaching.

The kids (10 year old) have to have 2 hours of English a week and then they get an assignment for the week.

Here is last weeks assignment

Translate the following English sentences into Thai.

Which lists has eggs on them?

Which lists has chickens on them?

Which lists has apples on them?

Which lists has bananas on them?

etc.

Ten sentences, all with only one word different. That is it for the week.

OK - I think you need to explain the educational theory behind this and then lay out the reasons you find it unsatisfactory.......of course you can't, because you no nothing either about education or trying to put forward an argument.

bet you failed the test too!

Ha ha. That is so Thai! The educational theory behind the subject of the post you responded to, is about someone who has a basically flawed understanding of English, making as little effort as possible to teach a principle, well actually the idea is not even that advanced, (note not principal because he or she is probably counting the proceeds of undocumented income), but misunderstanding that their assignment creates more confusion than education because of its own basic errors.

The sad thing is that you do not understand that the sentences are grammatically incorrect in the first place. Added to which the whole assignment in one dimensional and about as boring as my history lessons were 40 years ago.

The even sadder fact is that in your response you confuse the word no and know and ignore capitalising your final sentence as well. There are other grammatical errors, but let us leave those aside for a moment. I do understand that being picky about grammar is frowned upon on this forum but if you are going to pick fault with someone on that related issue, then maybe make sure that your response is grammatically correct!

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[The Blot]

Thailand is and it will always be a hierarchy system, it is deep rooted in their culture and this is how it works in South East Asia. Striving for democracy! I hope they succeed. I hope they consider to put the right man/woman on the right spot. Not let the hierarchy decide how it should work... The Blot has Spoken!

[Thai at Heart]

First they need to really recognise there is a problem. (still not fully realised how big the problem is)

Then they need to work out what the problem is.(Face and a lack of ability to fail and criticise is the real problem)

Then they need to make a plan to solve the real problem. (This is years away because they haven't identified the problem).

Then they have to probably learn from elsewhere to solve the problem. (There are ghosts in government house still today).

I give it at least 40 years because to solve this problem, it is actually necessary to dismantle part of the culture.

[GanDoonToonPet]

The report doesn't actually say what the topic title says though, does it?

Yes it does, if you look deeper into it. At the beginning of the report, there are tables of the rankings for the different 'pillars'. The rankings for Thailand & Laos are:

Health & Primary Education:

Thailand 66

Laos 90

Higher Education & Training

Thailand 59

Laos 110

However, if you look at the country profiles (pp 241 & 361) you'll see that the data are skewed by some of the health stats & Thailand's primary education ranking is even worse than the OP! The HE section, which includes secondary education, is where you'll find the stat from the OP.

4th pillar: Health and primary education

4.01 Malaria cases/100,000 pop.*............................. 209.6 ............39

4.02 Business impact of malaria.................................... 5.4 ............24

4.03 Tuberculosis cases/100,000 pop.*..................... 119.0 ............99

4 04 Business impact of tuberculosis............................. 4.7 ............99

4.05 HIV prevalence, % adult pop.*............................... 1.1 ..........110

4.06 Business impact of HIV/AIDS................................. 4.6 ..........105

4.07 Infant mortality, deaths/1,000 live births*.............. 11.4 ...........61

4.08 Life expectancy, years*......................................... 74.2 ...........70

4.09 Quality of primary education...............................3.6 ............90

4.10 Primary education enrollment, net %*.................. 95.6 ............58

5th pillar: Higher education and training

5.01 Secondary education enrollment, gross %*.......... .87.0 ...........79

5.02 Tertiary education enrollment, gross %*.................51.2 ...........54

5.03 Quality of the education system..........................3.4 ............87

5.04 Quality of math and science education.................. 3.9 ............81

5.05 Quality of management schools............................. 4.1 ............81

5.06 Internet access in schools...................................... 4.6 ............61

5.07 Availability of research and training services...........4.2 ............69

5.08 Extent of staff training............................................ .4.4 ............37

Similarly the figures for Laos are

4th pillar: Health and primary education

4.01 Malaria cases/100,000 pop.*.......................... 1,655.2 ............45

4.02 Business impact of malaria.................................... 4.0 ............53

4.03 Tuberculosis cases/100,000 pop.*..................... 204.0 ..........119

4.04 Business impact of tuberculosis............................. 4.0 ..........130

4.05 HIV prevalence, % adult pop.*............................... 0.3 ............59

4.06 Business impact of HIV/AIDS................................. 4.2 ..........120

4.07 Infant mortality, deaths/1,000 live births*.............. 54.0 ..........126

4.08 Life expectancy, years*......................................... 67.8 ..........104

4.09 Quality of primary education.............................. 3.7 ............84

4.10 Primary education enrollment, net %*.................. 95.9 ............56

5th pillar: Higher education and training

5.01 Secondary education enrollment, gross %*........... 46.5 .........124

5.02 Tertiary education enrollment, gross %*................ 16.7 ..........99

5.03 Quality of the education system......................... 3.8 ............60

5.04 Quality of math and science education.................. 3.9 ............83

5.05 Quality of management schools............................. 4.1 ............79

5.06 Internet access in schools...................................... 3.8 ............88

5.07 Availability of research and training services......... 3.9 ............83

5.08 Extent of staff training............................................ 4.3 ............45

Edited September 12, 2014 by GanDoonToonPet

[tonbridgebrit]

Yes, but GDP per person in Laos is considerably lower than Thailand.

And even if GDP per person in Laos is growing quicker than Thailand, it will take them decades to catch up with Thailand. And it's not going to happen.

Just as absurd as being scared that GDP per person in places like Bulgaria, Romania and Poland, that they will catch up with Britain !

Measuring wealth and comparing it to intelligence, is not valid. Germany won't catch up to the USA ever. Does that make Americans more educated and smarter than Germans? To put it in perspective Laos has a population one tenth the size of Thailand. So for Laos to grow as big in Thailand isn't possible. Given that Laos is also a landlocked country doesn't add to it's potential economic growth. That being said that Laos has an over all growth rate that exceeds Thailand's at the moment is nothing remarkable. Thailand can only build so many more malls and condos. The market is completely saturated and this will lead to stagnation. Obviously Thailand's neighbors can only grow given this.

Thailand will go into a state of recession soon as they have no more real avenues to improve upon. Everything is already over exploited.

The PM, general or whoever he is should try to outpace the growth in Laos on a person for person basis. If that is not possible it is pretty sad. Boy, oh boy Thailand is being compared to Laos. Ten years ago this would have been unthinkable.

Hello 'anotheruser'.

I agree with measuring wealth and comparing it to intelligence is not actually valid, but surely, you accept that 'standards of education' are (partly) linked to GDP per person ?

You mention how Germany won't catch up with the USA ever. I agree. It's unlikely that Germany's GDP per person will ever catch up with America's GDP per person.

You also mention about how the population of Laos is one tenth of Thailand's, so there's no way Laos can grow as big as Thailand. Well, yes, the economy of Laos will never be as big as Thailand's, but it's GDP PER PERSON might catch up with Thailand at some point in the future.

Laos is a landlocked country, this doesn't help economic growth, this I agree. Foreign firms and Laos firms are not really going to set up large manufacturing centers (factories) in Laos. The goods must be exported, in the case of Laos, the goods must be transported (exported) to Bangkok first and then, the goods can be exported. This means manufacturing in Laos will always have a big drawback. Thailand can manufacture goods, and export using it's own harbours.

"Thailand will go into a state of recession soon as they have no more real avenues to improve upon. Everything is already over exploited.". Well, it's reasonably likely that tourist numbers will carry on rising (we're still seeing growth in the number of tourists coming to Thailand from Europe and America), and indeed, Chinese tourists coming here are growing rapidly. I think give it ten years, the number of Chinese tourists will be double what it is now. Surely, this will help Thailand's economic growth ?

And the latest news about Volkswagon setting up their car plant in Thailand. Wages in Thailand are still far lower than in Europe. It makes sense to re-locate some of Europe's factories to cheaper places (like Thailand). So maybe, Thailand can have economic growth due to the re-location of European (and American) factories. Yes, I know that the cars built in Thailand are for the South Asia market, not for export to Europe, but still, new factories in Thailand is good for Thailand's economy.

My main point is, is that it doesn't really matter that Laos children are better educated than Thai kids. Education (schools and colleges) is surely, about equipping young people with the skills they need at the workplace. Why teach Thai children to speak some English ? Because they will probably need it at some workplaces. And the workplace. It's about the economy, the GDP per person.

I think we agree that GDP per person in Laos will take decades to catch up with Thailand. That's assuming it will catch up !!

[tonbridgebrit]

Everybody, for God's sake, have people actually been to Laos ? Have people actually been to the bits of Laos that are outside of the capital, Vietianne ?

If you have, then you will know that Laos is a backward and undeveloped nation when compared to Thailand !!

There's a stack of Laos people in Thailand, some are here legally, others are illegal. They're here, because, because they want to be here and not in Laos.
There's not many Thais in Laos, although some Thai blokes are over there, visiting the Laos wife/girlfriend. Yes, it's easier for a Thai man to get a girlfriend in Laos than to get a girlfriend in Thailand. That's because the poverty in Laos is far greater than in Thailand.

So, let's just stop trying to say that Laos is a better place than Thailand !!

[lovelaos]

Everybody, for God's sake, have people actually been to Laos ? Have people actually been to the bits of Laos that are outside of the capital, Vietianne ?

If you have, then you will know that Laos is a backward and undeveloped nation when compared to Thailand !!

There's a stack of Laos people in Thailand, some are here legally, others are illegal. They're here, because, because they want to be here and not in Laos.

There's not many Thais in Laos, although some Thai blokes are over there, visiting the Laos wife/girlfriend. Yes, it's easier for a Thai man to get a girlfriend in Laos than to get a girlfriend in Thailand. That's because the poverty in Laos is far greater than in Thailand.

So, let's just stop trying to say that Laos is a better place than Thailand !!

Yes, I've lived here for more than 10 years and visited most parts. So, I have some experience.

To say Laos is "backward" compared to Thailand goes against what this report says. Do you have experience of Laos, outside of Vientiane? I would love to hear your views.

"Some Thai blokes are over there visiting their girlfriends" really? So the numerous multi million dollar Thai investors and corporations in Laos are just visiting for a quickie? You clearly have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. Were you here for a 4 day visa run and suddenly become an expert?

Most Laotians living in Thailand are uneducated labourers/maids/prostitutes who can make slightly more money there than here. Believe me, they don't want to be there, some are there against their own will.

Of course there is poverty in Laos as there is in parts of Thailand. Step outside Bangkok once in a while and open your eyes.

[tonbridgebrit]

Everybody, for God's sake, have people actually been to Laos ? Have people actually been to the bits of Laos that are outside of the capital, Vietianne ?

If you have, then you will know that Laos is a backward and undeveloped nation when compared to Thailand !!

There's a stack of Laos people in Thailand, some are here legally, others are illegal. They're here, because, because they want to be here and not in Laos.

There's not many Thais in Laos, although some Thai blokes are over there, visiting the Laos wife/girlfriend. Yes, it's easier for a Thai man to get a girlfriend in Laos than to get a girlfriend in Thailand. That's because the poverty in Laos is far greater than in Thailand.

So, let's just stop trying to say that Laos is a better place than Thailand !!

Yes, I've lived here for more than 10 years and visited most parts. So, I have some experience.

To say Laos is "backward" compared to Thailand goes against what this report says. Do you have experience of Laos, outside of Vientiane? I would love to hear your views.

"Some Thai blokes are over there visiting their girlfriends" really? So the numerous multi million dollar Thai investors and corporations in Laos are just visiting for a quickie? You clearly have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. Were you here for a 4 day visa run and suddenly become an expert?

Most Laotians living in Thailand are uneducated labourers/maids/prostitutes who can make slightly more money there than here. Believe me, they don't want to be there, some are there against their own will.

Of course there is poverty in Laos as there is in parts of Thailand. Step outside Bangkok once in a while and open your eyes.

Hello 'lovelaos'. Okay, I'm sorry if I have upset you.

I have been to Vietiane many times, and I've been to Laungprabang twice. Yes, I was first in Vietianne about ten years ago, and I do realise that the place has massively changed (become more modern) since then.

When I said Laos is backward, I meant it in the sense that the 'infrastructure' their is far less than Thailand. I was also trying to say that GDP per person is far lower in Laos than in Thailand.

Yes, big foreign companies (like Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonalds, Pizzahut, etc) are starting or will start entering into Laos pretty soon, but they've been in Thailand for decades. Why is that ? Is it because Laos actually discourages foreign companies, or is it because those foreign companies don't regard Laos as big enough ?

About the Thai men who go over to Laos to get a Lao girlfriend. Yes, I realise that a fair number of Thai and Chinese people are in Laos, with their million dollar investments. But the number of Thai men who are there to visit and see the Laos girlfriend (or the number of Thai men in Thailand who have got a Lao girlfriend) is far greater than the number of Chinese/Thai/Western investors sorting out their million dollar investments. You agree that a stack of Thai men have Laos girlfriends ? You agree, right, that's not because Thai men are better looking, it's because Thai men have more money. So now we have "stepping stone theory". We come here and get ourselves Thai girlfriends because we've got more money than Thai men, and Thai men go and get Laos girlfriends, because Thai men have got more money than Laos men.

Yes, the Laos people you see in Thailand are mainly un-skilled labourers. They can earn more money in Thailand than in Laos, yes, they're certainly not here because they think Thailand is more fun. Un-skilled and sem-skilled workers outnumber the other groups in society, and yes, Laos is poor, wages are low, that's why they are in Thailand. Poorer countries export their people/labour to richer countries, that's what we're seeing in Laos/Thailand.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that you agree that GDP per person in Laos is far lower than Thailand's. I'm just trying to say, even if Laos does have children that are better educated than Thailand, assuming Laos economic growth is more rapid than Thailand's, well, it will still take them decades to catch up with Thailand's GDP per person.

By the way, yes, I do dislike it when Thais look at Laos people, and laugh at them, and have a superiority complex when in their presence. We're all people, regardless as to how much money or education we've had.

[wilcopops]

I think you need to review why Thai people laugh.

[wilcopops]

Focusing on GDP is a highly distorted way of comparing education.

....and I'd say there is every likelihood German GDP per capita will overtake US in the next 2 decades......for instance they already stand out as one of the few western nations with a trade surplus with China.

Laos ius now in the fortunate position of having both China and Vietnam competing for influence there.

I've travelled around the country a lot and the changes are RAPID.....

[lovelaos]

Everybody, for God's sake, have people actually been to Laos ? Have people actually been to the bits of Laos that are outside of the capital, Vietianne ?

If you have, then you will know that Laos is a backward and undeveloped nation when compared to Thailand !!

There's a stack of Laos people in Thailand, some are here legally, others are illegal. They're here, because, because they want to be here and not in Laos.

There's not many Thais in Laos, although some Thai blokes are over there, visiting the Laos wife/girlfriend. Yes, it's easier for a Thai man to get a girlfriend in Laos than to get a girlfriend in Thailand. That's because the poverty in Laos is far greater than in Thailand.

So, let's just stop trying to say that Laos is a better place than Thailand !!

Yes, I've lived here for more than 10 years and visited most parts. So, I have some experience.

To say Laos is "backward" compared to Thailand goes against what this report says. Do you have experience of Laos, outside of Vientiane? I would love to hear your views.

"Some Thai blokes are over there visiting their girlfriends" really? So the numerous multi million dollar Thai investors and corporations in Laos are just visiting for a quickie? You clearly have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. Were you here for a 4 day visa run and suddenly become an expert?

Most Laotians living in Thailand are uneducated labourers/maids/prostitutes who can make slightly more money there than here. Believe me, they don't want to be there, some are there against their own will.

Of course there is poverty in Laos as there is in parts of Thailand. Step outside Bangkok once in a while and open your eyes.

Hello 'lovelaos'. Okay, I'm sorry if I have upset you.

I have been to Vietiane many times, and I've been to Laungprabang twice. Yes, I was first in Vietianne about ten years ago, and I do realise that the place has massively changed (become more modern) since then.

When I said Laos is backward, I meant it in the sense that the 'infrastructure' their is far less than Thailand. I was also trying to say that GDP per person is far lower in Laos than in Thailand.

Yes, big foreign companies (like Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonalds, Pizzahut, etc) are starting or will start entering into Laos pretty soon, but they've been in Thailand for decades. Why is that ? Is it because Laos actually discourages foreign companies, or is it because those foreign companies don't regard Laos as big enough ?

About the Thai men who go over to Laos to get a Lao girlfriend. Yes, I realise that a fair number of Thai and Chinese people are in Laos, with their million dollar investments. But the number of Thai men who are there to visit and see the Laos girlfriend (or the number of Thai men in Thailand who have got a Lao girlfriend) is far greater than the number of Chinese/Thai/Western investors sorting out their million dollar investments. You agree that a stack of Thai men have Laos girlfriends ? You agree, right, that's not because Thai men are better looking, it's because Thai men have more money. So now we have "stepping stone theory". We come here and get ourselves Thai girlfriends because we've got more money than Thai men, and Thai men go and get Laos girlfriends, because Thai men have got more money than Laos men.

Yes, the Laos people you see in Thailand are mainly un-skilled labourers. They can earn more money in Thailand than in Laos, yes, they're certainly not here because they think Thailand is more fun. Un-skilled and sem-skilled workers outnumber the other groups in society, and yes, Laos is poor, wages are low, that's why they are in Thailand. Poorer countries export their people/labour to richer countries, that's what we're seeing in Laos/Thailand.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that you agree that GDP per person in Laos is far lower than Thailand's. I'm just trying to say, even if Laos does have children that are better educated than Thailand, assuming Laos economic growth is more rapid than Thailand's, well, it will still take them decades to catch up with Thailand's GDP per person.

By the way, yes, I do dislike it when Thais look at Laos people, and laugh at them, and have a superiority complex when in their presence. We're all people, regardless as to how much money or education we've had.

You haven't upset me at all.

I wasn't thinking about Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonalds, Pizza Hut... I was referring to the likes of The M Group, The Loxley Group, The EGCO Group, The Space System/Loral Co., Ltd, The Shinawatra Group etc.

Anyway, back on topic, there have been vast improvements in Lao education over the last few years. Children as young as six are being taught French and English daily. Of course there is lots of room for improvement but as the report states. Lao education is improving at a faster rate than Thailand.

:-)

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, but GDP per person in Laos is considerably lower than Thailand.

And even if GDP per person in Laos is growing quicker than Thailand, it will take them decades to catch up with Thailand. And it's not going to happen.

Just as absurd as being scared that GDP per person in places like Bulgaria, Romania and Poland, that they will catch up with Britain !

Measuring wealth and comparing it to intelligence, is not valid. Germany won't catch up to the USA ever. Does that make Americans more educated and smarter than Germans? To put it in perspective Laos has a population one tenth the size of Thailand. So for Laos to grow as big in Thailand isn't possible. Given that Laos is also a landlocked country doesn't add to it's potential economic growth. That being said that Laos has an over all growth rate that exceeds Thailand's at the moment is nothing remarkable. Thailand can only build so many more malls and condos. The market is completely saturated and this will lead to stagnation. Obviously Thailand's neighbors can only grow given this.

Thailand will go into a state of recession soon as they have no more real avenues to improve upon. Everything is already over exploited.

The PM, general or whoever he is should try to outpace the growth in Laos on a person for person basis. If that is not possible it is pretty sad. Boy, oh boy Thailand is being compared to Laos. Ten years ago this would have been unthinkable.

Hello 'anotheruser'.

I agree with measuring wealth and comparing it to intelligence is not actually valid, but surely, you accept that 'standards of education' are (partly) linked to GDP per person ?

You mention how Germany won't catch up with the USA ever. I agree. It's unlikely that Germany's GDP per person will ever catch up with America's GDP per person.

You also mention about how the population of Laos is one tenth of Thailand's, so there's no way Laos can grow as big as Thailand. Well, yes, the economy of Laos will never be as big as Thailand's, but it's GDP PER PERSON might catch up with Thailand at some point in the future.

Laos is a landlocked country, this doesn't help economic growth, this I agree. Foreign firms and Laos firms are not really going to set up large manufacturing centers (factories) in Laos. The goods must be exported, in the case of Laos, the goods must be transported (exported) to Bangkok first and then, the goods can be exported. This means manufacturing in Laos will always have a big drawback. Thailand can manufacture goods, and export using it's own harbours.

"Thailand will go into a state of recession soon as they have no more real avenues to improve upon. Everything is already over exploited.". Well, it's reasonably likely that tourist numbers will carry on rising (we're still seeing growth in the number of tourists coming to Thailand from Europe and America), and indeed, Chinese tourists coming here are growing rapidly. I think give it ten years, the number of Chinese tourists will be double what it is now. Surely, this will help Thailand's economic growth ?

And the latest news about Volkswagon setting up their car plant in Thailand. Wages in Thailand are still far lower than in Europe. It makes sense to re-locate some of Europe's factories to cheaper places (like Thailand). So maybe, Thailand can have economic growth due to the re-location of European (and American) factories. Yes, I know that the cars built in Thailand are for the South Asia market, not for export to Europe, but still, new factories in Thailand is good for Thailand's economy.

My main point is, is that it doesn't really matter that Laos children are better educated than Thai kids. Education (schools and colleges) is surely, about equipping young people with the skills they need at the workplace. Why teach Thai children to speak some English ? Because they will probably need it at some workplaces. And the workplace. It's about the economy, the GDP per person.

I think we agree that GDP per person in Laos will take decades to catch up with Thailand. That's assuming it will catch up !!

There is no feasible reason why German HDP per head cannot reach that of the USA. It isn't that far away now. A few percent of growth can equalise differences very quickly.

20% can be made up in 30 years. Who knows which industry or technology break through will be the next big thing for everyone. The USA has been front and centre of hitec for 40 years.

Its tough at the top