Once You're Employed, Spoken Agreements Have No More Meaning...

[aarontendo]

Or, maybe I'm just crap at my job. See, I should be prepping somethign right now, right?

[OmegaRacer]

Sorry OP, if I were you, I wouldn't put up with that crap. I think you're an easy target for the admins or whoever orders you around. You've been saying yes too often and therefore they keep giving you more and more work.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by my school. 18-20 hrs of classroom teaching, no other duties, no morning assembly, a great boss and very helpful secretary and overall much freedom to teach as I see fit.

[dao16]

My mother, now deceased, taught for many years in the U.S.

Let me tell what teachers there MUST do.

As a teacher you are required to be Red Cross certified in case one of the student gets hurt or has a seizure.

You need to pay for that course yourself

There is "playground monitor" duties assigned to you, which means two or three times a month you need to spend at least three hours or until the school playground closes down watching the children play.

There are "parent consultation" nights when you have to be in school available until 7:30 or 8:30 in case a parent comes in to talk about his or her child and there schoolwork,

Quite often once a week, but nobody ever shows up.

The state (depending on which state you work in, different requirements apply) needs you to keep your "teachers certificate" current, usually by taking seminars during the "summer break" to learn the most modern teaching methods.

At your expense of course.

And of course their are those that are told to be "sports monitors" for afterschool "sports" activities.

Almost none of this extra activity is paid for.

There are such activities as Chess Club, Science Club, Future Farmers of America (I'm not making that up),French and Spanish language clubs, etc.

Oh, and I almost forgot "detention" for those sent there for some infraction in school. Must be monitored by a teacher of course.

Oh, and the school she taught in required that as a teacher she had to be there at least one hour before the students arrived and must be there at least an hour after school day ended, EVERY day.

Exactly what were you complaining about now ?

Not sure where she taught. My gov't run schools were nothing like that.

Ok, yes on the certs they have to do and the monitoring duties (although we had specific coaches and health teachers that did all the in-school detention duties).

Parent consultation was once or twice a semester and tons of parents went.

Clubs were handled by teachers and they would swap them out, thus sharing them during different terms.

Teachers certs, yes...check. However, all of my teachers left for the entire summer (most notably, my English Literature teacher, who would spend the summer in Europe watching theater and opera), spent time with family, worked on other projects or taught summer school (yes, for extra pay).

We had intramural leagues that coaches would monitor, but that didn't last long at all. The regular junior varsity and varsity sports lasted all year, of course, but those were coached by paid coaches--sometimes teachers at the school, but often hired coaches, like you would see at the university level. I know because their pay for coaching was public information (maybe due to title 9, to make sure the same amount was being spent on male and female sporting activities).

Yes, they have to get there about an hour early, but not really more. I used to take a special speed and fitness class with our school's football team (even though I played soccer) at 7Am sharp in the AM....I guarantee you there were hardly any teachers around at 6:30 when I went to my locker. We started regular classes at 8 AM.

ANYWAY--not saying your mother didn't go through this and I realize teachers do work hard. However, what you described is worlds away from my K-12 experience. Of course, the US is a big place, so....obviously, anything is possible.

[lostinisaan]

I am not talking about not being allowed to sit down while teaching. I am talking about Thai teachers not being allowed to sit down at all. They are to stand up and check their books. When a foreign teacher is teaching, they cannot sit down.

Part of the problem in Thailand is the endless minutia about things like this. If you are a good teacher you will behave in a manner that suits teaching effectively. If you are a bad teacher, standing or sitting makes little difference.

Seems that's not just for Thai teachers.

The guy on the photo was on facebook all day long and sitting..Result: Free accommodation and food for three years.

In an unknown military camp somewhere near Baan Jamm Mei Dai.--

[greenchair]

My mother, now deceased, taught for many years in the U.S.

Let me tell what teachers there MUST do.

As a teacher you are required to be Red Cross certified in case one of the student gets hurt or has a seizure.

You need to pay for that course yourself

There is "playground monitor" duties assigned to you, which means two or three times a month you need to spend at least three hours or until the school playground closes down watching the children play.

There are "parent consultation" nights when you have to be in school available until 7:30 or 8:30 in case a parent comes in to talk about his or her child and there schoolwork,

Quite often once a week, but nobody ever shows up.

The state (depending on which state you work in, different requirements apply) needs you to keep your "teachers certificate" current, usually by taking seminars during the "summer break" to learn the most modern teaching methods.

At your expense of course.

And of course their are those that are told to be "sports monitors" for afterschool "sports" activities.

Almost none of this extra activity is paid for.

There are such activities as Chess Club, Science Club, Future Farmers of America (I'm not making that up),French and Spanish language clubs, etc.

Oh, and I almost forgot "detention" for those sent there for some infraction in school. Must be monitored by a teacher of course.

Oh, and the school she taught in required that as a teacher she had to be there at least one hour before the students arrived and must be there at least an hour after school day ended, EVERY day.

Exactly what were you complaining about now ?

[greenchair]

Yes and she would have enjoyed paid summer breaks between two and three months a year. had twenty to thirty students under her care and write reports for.(not 200 reports ) probably quite a high monthly salary with benefits. An old age pension she could pay into. job security. no need to buy tickets home. No need for overseas call bills. no need to put her kids in expensive international schools. But most of all no sacrifice of being away from her family.

Edited September 15, 2014 by greenchair

[kaorop]

I don't sit down in class. I think standing is good excercise. How can you teach conversational English sitting down in Thailand?

You go to work to exercise, doesn't sound like your mind is on the job,

and of course towering over Annuban students sitting on the floor, with their necks strained back is an effective way to teach

How can you even ask that last question? Very limited frame of reference it would seem.

Sit when needed stand when needed, it is that simple.

[yanyk]

Posted A minute ago

Its a big problem i must say because the students will be at the receiving end. The funniest thing is that they give no apologies and sometimes act as if you are plain dumb. For example, a friend of mine works in a school, in his contract , it stated he will be working 17 hours per week, the school will pay for visa expenses , accommodation would be provided and BOOM , he signed

1. accommodation was a very old Village house inside the school, no air conditioner, no fan , no fridge no bed.

he was to buy everything by himself. of course he rejected it and he was told he can pay for a good place himself.

2. one month gone, 4 hours were added to his time and the HOD told him they have done so to all teachers.

haha on a bad day the HOD was to travel and begged him to teach his class and unconsciously handed over his timetable to him.

my friend immediately noticed he had just 13 hours per week.

3. He was later told to do Morning talks and teach a new word every morning.

4. He was told he was not allowed to organize extra lesson for students. (they initially told him he was free to do it )

Th problems are just too much and he has lost interest in the job...

but the truth is every institution has its problems

[lostinisaan]

Posted A minute ago

Its a big problem i must say because the students will be at the receiving end. The funniest thing is that they give no apologies and sometimes act as if you are plain dumb. For example, a friend of mine works in a school, in his contract , it stated he will be working 17 hours per week, the school will pay for visa expenses , accommodation would be provided and BOOM , he signed

1. accommodation was a very old Village house inside the school, no air conditioner, no fan , no fridge no bed.

he was to buy everything by himself. of course he rejected it and he was told he can pay for a good place himself.

2. one month gone, 4 hours were added to his time and the HOD told him they have done so to all teachers.

haha on a bad day the HOD was to travel and begged him to teach his class and unconsciously handed over his timetable to him.

my friend immediately noticed he had just 13 hours per week.

3. He was later told to do Morning talks and teach a new word every morning.

4. He was told he was not allowed to organize extra lesson for students. (they initially told him he was free to do it )

Th problems are just too much and he has lost interest in the job...

but the truth is every institution has its problems

1. Guess they couldn't just build a new house for your friend on campus in time. This is Thailand. Not Disneyland.....

2. Why do you think was he the HOD?

3. I did that already 10 years ago and we had plenty of fun....

4. Just do it and don't wake up sleeping dogs. Nobody would give a damn.....

Yep, too many people are making too many problems. Please see:Even if you don't like Phil......

Edited September 15, 2014 by lostinisaan

[ggt]

Verbal commitments in Thailand...are another form of corruption...even the written contract...is often totally ignored...this is Thailand...

[Kasset Tak]

I don't think that anyone is trying to minimize the responsibilities of a teacher. That are 'in loco parentis' and the responsibilities are enormous. But we do not necessarily do things that enhance the education of the school or provide safety. We are paraded out and showcased and then put back in our 'place.' Let me give you some examples:

Our teachers have to attend morning assembly -- not a problem. We were told to stand behind our classes. Then one day we were all unceremoniously shuffled to the front of our classes. We were to face the class, then no, we should turn and face the flag. We were told what to wear and if you had on the wrong color shirt, it was a 50 baht deduction. If you roll up your leaves, you are reprimanded in front of the class.

Our teachers are also required to March with the students and to perform the dance of the month. Again at the capricious spot where they decide we should be standing only to be reprimanded because they changed their mind.

Teachers are not allowed to sit down in the classroom -- for the homeroom teacher that means standing all day and checking the books while standing or leaning over a desk. They are then criticized because the ticking is not neat enough.

So, would I take a first aide class--most certainly (actually I have but I am no longer certified). NO ONE at our school is certified in first aide. Would I stay until the last student is picked up by his parents, reluctantly, but yes. It's what you do when you care about their safety and welfare. Should I stay 1 hour after the last student has left because someone has arbitrarily decided that I should; I think not.

Oh, and when these precious holidays come around that are the big reward for being a teacher, they get shorter by the year. Now it's a matter of a week and 1/2 in October and teachers are expected to take turns coming in on specific days for testing of new students.

It's not the things that go toward the needs/care/education of the students. It's the temperamental and fickle nature of the administration that makes the job less-than-satisfying at times.

I can only agree with what you are saying. I was told today that I will have to teach during October so holiday only 4 days, 26-30 September. I will hand in my letter of resignation in the end of the week!

Edited September 15, 2014 by Kasset Tak

[Scott]

Sorry to hear you will be resigning, but it's understandable. Let us know how it goes for you.

I know many teachers who have a difficult time making travel plans to return to their home country because of the capricious nature of the schools. It's also hard to have family come and visit when you can't tell them when the holidays are.

I

[Mencken]

No, I don't go to school to excercise, what nonsense and if you are teaching tiny kids (something I find personally "peculiar" for adult men), by all means get down to their level. Point is, these ESL imo is an active job. It requires circulating to control the class, a must. Yelling at kids to shut up from a chair is a fail on so many levels. Checking books, LISTENING closely to pronunciation of the quieter ones. If you are giving some bit of written work and running for a chair to sit down, that's a fail. You are too old, fat and or lazy.

It doesn't matter what Thai teachers do or teachers in US or Iceland. It only matters what we must do to honor a contract (note: HONOR), do the right thing and do not insult the Thai people to sych an extent it makes the next batch of teachers even more despised. Many of you seem quite good at that.

Verbal agrements in EFL the world over, 555. Even written agreements are worthless. For the school and agency,

It is also about honor and doing the right thing.

Sorry you are leaving, you seem earnest. Take a break and try again. Then you will know if you can hack the madness. Look closely at where you are hired and what terms.

[Mencken]

Verbal commitments in Thailand...are another form of corruption...even the written contract...is often totally ignored...this is Thailand...

Its not just Thailand, EFL teachers are treated like thus the world over. You picked a great "career", get used to it or repeat after me....welcome to McDonalds can I take your order? At least at MCD they have rules, oh and you will earn more too.

Don't complain. What are you really worth? If you deserve better miney or treatment, go get it.

[carter1882]

You can always tell the amateurism of these teachers in the north east. They never realised that proper teaching is a massive commitment with a host of unpaid responsibilities and duties all apart from the in class time that is really the easier part. I was twenty years at major international schools in Bangkok and the job would leave me shattered. I really needed the long holidays. Now i quit it is blissful to have so much time to do things. The fact that the OP seems genuinely informed and thankful to the poster who listed the duties of a teacher in the US just proves my point. There are thousands of cowboys out there who don't have a real clue what being a teacher is!

[meand]

You can always tell the amateurism of these teachers in the north east. They never realised that proper teaching is a massive commitment with a host of unpaid responsibilities and duties all apart from the in class time that is really the easier part. I was twenty years at major international schools in Bangkok and the job would leave me shattered. I really needed the long holidays. Now i quit it is blissful to have so much time to do things. The fact that the OP seems genuinely informed and thankful to the poster who listed the duties of a teacher in the US just proves my point. There are thousands of cowboys out there who don't have a real clue what being a teacher is!

Nor do they want or even need to have a clue, because salaries are not commensurate with the amount of work and dedication you are talking about. You seem to be complaining about something that has been brought on by the Thais themselves. Pay for amateurs, and that is what you'll get of course.

Edited September 16, 2014 by meand

[iamariva1957]

What got me about the original poster's diatribe was the poor use of the English language and sentence structure to project a well thought out opinion. Frankly I had trouble reading through their broken sentence structure and thought patterns . But that being said, foreign and even local teachers here have about the same extra work that most teachers have anywhere. There are things that a teacher has to do and will be asked to do that are not reflected in their 'contracts' (if they even have one) or in their described responsibilities.

I have been teaching for over 4 years now here in LOS and have to say that I do 'hear' what the poster was (trying) to say. I too have been required to do more than I was expecting. I have worked the extra hours and held English classes for the other members of the school staff countless times. I have been given tasks that have nothing to do with why they hired me in the first place (like arrange Sports Day events, decorating stalls, local holiday presentations and the like). I have even had to buy my own supplies more times than not (as my requests go unheard or "forgotten").

Sure my days can be long and I too have known what it is like to have my co-teacher disappear for hours on end and so have to deal with a classroom filled with 30+ kids. So what. I can remember days in the NYC school system years ago now where I was faced with the same thing. So it is nothing new and any teacher who has put in their time knows it.

No school is perfect and neither are the administrations of said schools. Yes, here in Thailand things will be different and usually are in most other places as well. But that is not really the problem. In fact it is us foreign teachers, those "Native Speakers" (whatever that means) that come here with our Western attitudes and classroom protocols and expect that those elements are some sort of 'global standard'. They are not. Not here in LOS, not in Cambodia, not in West Africa, not even in Poland or the Ukraine, and certainly not in Saudi (I have taught in all of them). So we have to tailor make our classroom performance/s and our lesson plans as well as how we work within the present system in order to get the job we know we are there to do done as best as we can for the students and not simply for ourselves. Couple all of that with the issue of Gap Year folks looking to be 'helpful', or those with a wish to 'try' teaching and both with their "Here today, gone tomorrow" ... to the beaches... attitude, well what is the local administration suppose to think? We are seen as rich Farangs. So why would we want to teach here at the salaries that are being offered? The school that I teach at now asked me that very question! Oh, they were happy to have me on the payroll, but still had questions regarding my dedication from the start. It was only after I showed them that I could not give a fig about the money (though nice to have and required, so do not get me wrong) but rather it was about me teaching my students... therefore it was about the students!

Salaries aside, for they change from one school and country to another and remember that no teacher has ever gotten rich by just teaching. It is also just as important to one's classroom to work with your administration as best as you can and put your foot down from time to time... but for the students and not yourself (here... do it with a smile and with "kind words"). But, as I have already said, no one is going to get rich teaching and no one working here in The Kingdom is going to be taking the money they make here back to their home country as its value in your home currency is almost nil so not really worth it. Certainly this applies to a teacher's salary no matter how much it might be. For no one is going to be getting millions of Baht teaching. Certainly not teaching English. So suck it up and deal with the reality.

Life has never been fare. That along with death and taxes is a constant. Yes we try and 'cheat' all of them from time to time, but it never really works in the short run let alone the long run. So though the system may not be the best or the most logically based it is the system that we as foreign teachers are expected to work within. Personally, I trust no one except myself when it comes to contracts. I read them and then sign them after I have discussed anything that might have raised a red flag in my eyes. But lies happen and that is nothing new. As teachers we should, like a good parent, be able to spot them a mile off. But when they come from the administration that we have been hired by, it can be hard to accept that the they have changed the 'rules' in mid stream and now we find ourselves in that canoe without the proverbial paddle. But such is life. But we must remember that we are there not for ourselves but rather for our 'craft' which is created by our classroom and the students within it. So in short we are there for the kids. Hard work? You bet it is! One that does not come with any medals or even accolades. But if you want those, then teaching is not for you.

Edited September 16, 2014 by iamariva1957

[Scott]

<snipped>

I was twenty years at major international schools in Bangkok and the job would leave me shattered. I really needed the long holidays.

The problem for many teachers is that in October the break for the teachers isn't measured in weeks, but in days and some teachers get no break. For the summer, many schools have a summer program, so again, there is either no break or a very short break. There is certainly not a 'long holiday' for many.

I never minded the full-on responsibility of teaching and the extra time, and work, but the breaks were necessary to re-charge.

The other problem that many people don't realize is that for foreign teachers getting the supplies and things they need for projects isn't easy. Some don't speak Thai, or don't speak well enough to get to the places where the things they need are available. We just finished a program for parents and the foreign teachers were asked to get costumes for the students. None of the foreign teachers had any idea where they could costumes for 30 kids.

[iamariva1957]

You can always tell the amateurism of these teachers in the north east. They never realised that proper teaching is a massive commitment with a host of unpaid responsibilities and duties all apart from the in class time that is really the easier part. I was twenty years at major international schools in Bangkok and the job would leave me shattered. I really needed the long holidays. Now i quit it is blissful to have so much time to do things. The fact that the OP seems genuinely informed and thankful to the poster who listed the duties of a teacher in the US just proves my point. There are thousands of cowboys out there who don't have a real clue what being a teacher is!

Nor do they want or even need to have a clue, because salaries are not commensurate with the amount of work and dedication you are talking about. You seem to be complaining about something that has been brought on by the Thais themselves. Pay for amateurs, and that is what you'll get of course.

I have to ask... is any salary "commensurate with the amount of work or dedication"? Nope. "Brought on by the Thais"? Really? How do you figure that? If you need teachers and no one is doing anything on a national level to place teachers in positions where they will be able to help in the education of Thai students (in this case) then schools need to look elsewhere. In Thailand what with the influx of foreign tourists wanting to stay for extended periods and their need of earning a little extra money then why shouldn't the schools grab what they can. If there is a need then a way has to be found to supply that need. The problem really is with the caliber of the 'teachers' they find. Usually it is those that want to 'help' or want to 'try teaching'. But neither stay very long. I have known folks who have stayed for usually 2 months (the term of their 60-day Visa only to extend it by an additional 30-days and go to the beaches with their saved up salary). This has been the pattern for years. The fact is that teaching seems to many to be an easy job. It isn't! To some it seems like an easy way to make some extra cash. It isn't! Some even see it as a lark of sorts. It ain't! Then there are the ones that really do want to teach, but think that being a teacher is something that deserves respect. It doesn't, for respect is earned! Then there are ones that think that teaching is a like joining the Peace Corp, "doing good", and deserving of a medal. It ain't for the most part. For the fact is that personal chest thumping isn't the goal one should be striving for! Teaching is a job that goes beyond 'self'. You are there for your students... period!

[iamariva1957]

No, I don't go to school to excercise, what nonsense and if you are teaching tiny kids (something I find personally "peculiar" for adult men), by all means get down to their level. Point is, these ESL imo is an active job. It requires circulating to control the class, a must. Yelling at kids to shut up from a chair is a fail on so many levels. Checking books, LISTENING closely to pronunciation of the quieter ones. If you are giving some bit of written work and running for a chair to sit down, that's a fail. You are too old, fat and or lazy.

It doesn't matter what Thai teachers do or teachers in US or Iceland. It only matters what we must do to honor a contract (note: HONOR), do the right thing and do not insult the Thai people to sych an extent it makes the next batch of teachers even more despised. Many of you seem quite good at that.

Verbal agrements in EFL the world over, 555. Even written agreements are worthless. For the school and agency,

It is also about honor and doing the right thing.

Sorry you are leaving, you seem earnest. Take a break and try again. Then you will know if you can hack the madness. Look closely at where you are hired and what terms.

So you find it "peculiar" for an adult male to teach "tiny kids" (I guess you meant younger students)? Really? What are we all pedophiles then in your mind? I am male have been teaching for years now (NYC, LA, and good number of other locations around the world and am a certified Kindergarten and First grade teacher as well as a History and English lit and English Language teacher. I am now 57 and I have never heard such a myopic view point as the one you sort of started your post with!

Also, what is the "honor" bit you go on about? Who are we to honor? The contact? The school's administration? I never see you mention the honor you are duty bound to give to your students. Actually you never mention the students' needs as they pertain to your position as teacher. Of course a teacher should never "yell" at their students. Actually one should never yell at anyone, especially not here in LOS! Also, who is disrespecting the Thai people or their culture? The kids that come here and stay for a couple of months trying out being a teacher? If that is what you are referring to, then I agree with you. But it is not disrespect, but rather a myopic idea of what being a teacher is all about.

As for you remark about "contracts". Yep, you are right. I have taught all over the world and know from experience that a contract might be worth the paper it was printed on and in most cases and in some countries there is little one can do about it if you are 'burned'. So one sort takes the good with the bad in those cases. But if teaching is a 'calling' then as with any job, one has to be vigilant and expect the odd 'misunderstanding' or 'breach of contract' and take your lumps like the adult you are and do what you can to get things sorted out (even if it means a lawyer is hired). Honoring a contract and its construct is important yes, for all concerned. But there is a real world out there that thinks nothing of breaking agreements (China is a good example).

But your line about adult males is disrespectful and you should keep your 'fears' and opinions on that subject to yourself! For there are a great number of us male teachers (both Gay and Straight) that have been teaching for years that will find that offensive and without merit. I am just saying,

[belg]

good to read about your post

but who forces you to be a teacher ?

[lostinisaan]

good to read about your post

but who forces you to be a teacher ?

Might be the survival instinct?

[WonnabeBiker]

@LostinIsaan, promises are rarely kept. Photos aren't forwarded to you and books won't get returned.

One director rented us out to do English Camps. For an extra Saturday at some neighboring village school, the pay was 500 B. (I love these English Camp and gladly helped a private school which paid 200 B per day). another director overwhelmed all new-starts by asking us to hold a seminar. Turns out that would use up half of our Autumn holidays! At least those would be p a i d. My school now claims some regulation forbids them paying foreigners "when they are not actually working". (That's a 4.0 for creativity right there) Turns out he thought he might attract paying school teachers for this seminar. But we ended up teaching our M4-6 students instead.

For the B-Visas, the Chinese girl who had studied for years in Thailand and spoke the language and me had to go to Chaeng Wattana. The director insisted on a female chaperone. It was utter failure as the paperwork was incomplete. So the girl cum chaperone were paid to return, while I had to go to Vientiane. The Chinese teacher got every part of her trip paid for. But I was only getting 500 B. The excuse was that government regulation forbids them from paying for travel in a foreign country. (Have strong views on the need to send a bodyguard on a CHAN TOUR VIP bus to Bangkok. And that teacher was half my age, spoke Thai and being Chinese had probably some Kung &lt;deleted&gt; moves which would make any attacker regret they tried).

Every school has some level of Thainess, apathy and lack of functionality. Our school has had the water turned off for a week at the boys' toilets. WHY?!? The stench in unbearable. And the government school I visited for the provincial competition had water spouts for eavery urinal and working wash basins. (Those have been out of order the last few years by the look of things). Hygiene? Who cares!

Meetings? You bet! But those will be in Thai.

But no discussions of the curriculum, of classes and brainstorming on how to improve things at our special program. (80,000 Baht Sony TV so that English teachers can watch Thai shows? Granted! Water for the toilets? Nope, it's not a necessity, apparently)