Koh Tao - DNA tests do not match with those of suspects in British tourists' murder

[halloween]

DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

Even IF DNA could tell you a person's height and hair and eye colour, it couldn't tell the difference between a Thai and Danny DeVito.

BTW Danny has a rock solid alibi.

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Brits' murder: DNA from crime scene do not match that of captured suspects

BANGKOK, 18 September 2014 (NNT) – Police revealed the DNA collected from the body of the two British tourists murdered on Koh Tao in Suratthani and from nearby evidence do not match those of suspects in custody.

It was initially thought both victims had died from wounds to their heads. Forensic police determined on Wednesday, however, that the male victim may have been dragged into the sea before death, after finding water in his lungs. Forensic officials confirmed that both victims were engaged in sex at some point at or near the time of the murder. Police also said DNA collected from the semen found on the body of the female victim were possibly from two people. However, none of the DNA matched those of migrant workers being detained as prime suspects.

Police has asked the British mission for cooperation in preventing Christopher Alan Ware, friend of the male victim, from leaving Thailand. Police officials earlier allowed Mr. Ware to depart from Koh Tao with the intention of leaving Thailand, but now said they needed to question him further.

In the meantime, Minister of Interior Anuphong Phaochinda has vowed to take up the issue of tourists' safety when he assigns ministry policies to provincial governors nationwide today.


-- NNT 2014-09-18

[cloudhopper]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Actually, DNA testing can't show any information regarding race, and the very link you provided mentions this fact. You can't take a piece of DNA and say, Oh, this guy is 1/3 Filipino, half Thai and part Burmese. It doesn't work like that. DNA can show ancestral DNA, but that rarely matches with a person's racial appearance (for instance, many "white" people have African American ancestral DNA.)

What can DNA tests determine, for purposes of CSI? Two things, plain and simple:

1. Match.

2. Not match.

Further info: http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

Maybe they can send a sample to this company -

https://www.23andme.com/ancestry/

[BestBitterPhuket]

It's time to start DNA testing locals, from that island and nearby islands. The killers could have arrived in their own boat. Thailand has to stop hiding unpleasant truths. The police has already allowed local criminal gangs to prey on innocent foreigners in Koh Pangan for a long time. If they don't act responsible now, the tourist industry will be doomed.

Edited September 18, 2014 by BestBitterPhuket

[minikev]

It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

I have wondered if this was a gang rape and killing. IIRC the woman was raped in both "places" and the man in one. I wondered how one guy could have the energy, if you will.

Mr. Miller had wounds on his knuckles, suggesting he fought the perpetrator before he was killed, said Pol.Maj.Gen. Ponchai Sutheerakun. He added that no signs of sexual assault were found on Mr. Miller's body, effectively disputing earlier media reports that Mr. Miller was raped before his death.

[howzat]

You would think on a small island they would have this case wrapped up fairly quickly.

[ColdSingha]

The things we here so far point to two possible scenarios:

1. Murder out of jealousy. The killer sees (or hears, god sake the farangs are not quiet during sexual intercourse) the couple having sex on the beach and wants to take revenge on the girl. So picks up one of these hoes hanging around the bungalows and kills them. Prime suspects for this are clearly some farang.

2. Murder because of rape attempt. The killer sees the couple having sex on the beach and wants to join in the action. He or she or they is picking up a hoe in order to knock down the male. The victims fight and the knocking is so violent that they are getting killed. Prime suspects for this are more likely asian.

Normally we would tend to think that the second scenario is more likely. Asians do not respect any girl having sex in public and in any case for them farang practice free sex. So having witnessed the girl flirting with many boys and having public sex, they certainly want to join in.

3. An earlier altercation between a local and the male victim led to them being followed by the killer and friends who attacked the boy killing hime then raped and killed the girl.

[BIGTOE3]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

Maybe they had Airplane tickets ??

[IAMSOBAD]

Are there jet ski or beach chair Mafia on that beach? I still say look closer to the locals and stop blaming every foreign worker or tourist just to close the case for Thailands image.

I agree that they were followed by someone they had previous had interaction with and pissed them off. I know many people attacked hours after large ATM withdrawals or just after buying an expensive new phone. They were all targeted by a local and followed and robbed or attacked.

An arrest never made in each case.Blame the victim seems the new norm here. Just look at some recent quotes by @#$%&*-.

Edited September 18, 2014 by IAMSOBAD

[7Heaven]

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It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

Hopefully, the police are looking for locals who left the island in a hurry. For example, somebody who didn't show up for work the next day, etc.

You guys have never been to Thailand or can't read or what ?

It has been made clear by police officials already that Thais don't do such horrific things, so they are excluded from every suspicion.

I live here and can read if you provied a link to that statement from Thai police.

[Topah]

If it is a local gang killing tourists, think about how big effect it has for the tourism. It cannot be like that in any situation. Hopefully there won't be a set up.

It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

[Credo]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

Agree, workers are particularly careful with keeping all their work tools safe, it can mean the difference between working and not.

In which case the murderer is the one without a hoe. It's really quite simple, Watson.

[zaZa9]

It would be nice to know if the DNA found in the semen was connected to the shared cigarette or the unshared one (or the lipstick one, but they didn't say they found DNA on that one). And what was the sex of the DNA found. If the shared one, then you have a strong suggestion of at least two attackers.

A hoe as a murder weapon seems to imply local people because tourists don't usually have access to hoes at night on the beach. Nor would they be likely to use one as a weapon, being unfamiliar with it.

Nor is it a common fishing boat tool....

[Keesters]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Checked out that link and

DNA analysis cannot: Determine the age or race of the person who donated the sample

So would you like to rethink your assumption that Asian DNA and Western DNA are different

Edited September 18, 2014 by Keesters

[halloween]

Actually, DNA testing can't show any information regarding race, and the very link you provided mentions this fact. You can't take a piece of DNA and say, Oh, this guy is 1/3 Filipino, half Thai and part Burmese. It doesn't work like that. DNA can show ancestral DNA, but that rarely matches with a person's racial appearance (for instance, many "white" people have African American ancestral DNA.)

What can DNA tests determine, for purposes of CSI? Two things, plain and simple:

1. Match.

2. Not match.

Further info: http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

Maybe they can send a sample to this company -

https://www.23andme.com/ancestry/

If they charge you $100 and send you a load of old cobblers, how would you know that you've been had?

[kieran2698]

They still haven't said if the blood on the hoe matched that of the victims. I would think they should be coming out with that first. They are trying to hard to blame someone and make arrests for the sake of it. It's also interesting that BBC are still stating the pair were captured on cctv when it was retracted earlier on, and also they mention that a motive may be that they were having sex on the beach which is taboo in Thai culture!

What rubbish. At 4am they would have reasonably expected to have complete privacy. Their actions wouldn't have upset anyone. They were clearly stalked by predatory males, and then raped and killed.

I don't know where all this 'upsetting' the locals comes from. I have seen Thai couples having sex in a local park at night while I was out running. Also walked in on students at it in a classroom once.

Jeremy , Your experience of couples having sex was surely on the mainland and perhaps in a city . Island people are something completely different , with primordial instincts that have had little or no influence from more sophiticated mainland people .

Is that a joke?

[jomcondo]

They still haven't said if the blood on the hoe matched that of the victims. I would think they should be coming out with that first. They are trying to hard to blame someone and make arrests for the sake of it. It's also interesting that BBC are still stating the pair were captured on cctv when it was retracted earlier on, and also they mention that a motive may be that they were having sex on the beach which is taboo in Thai culture!

What rubbish. At 4am they would have reasonably expected to have complete privacy. Their actions wouldn't have upset anyone. They were clearly stalked by predatory males, and then raped and killed.

I don't know where all this 'upsetting' the locals comes from. I have seen Thai couples having sex in a local park at night while I was out running. Also walked in on students at it in a classroom once.

Jeremy , Your experience of couples having sex was surely on the mainland and perhaps in a city . Island people are something completely different , with primordial instincts that have had little or no influence from more sophiticated mainland people .

Is that a joke?

no just another delusional TV poster........this ones talking about the lost tribe of koh tao.

[biplanebluey]

BBC World Television is reporting 2 more tourists have been stopped at Swampy.

I'm sure they will get somebody, anybody.

Yes exactly,that is the problem-------- "ANYBODY"

[GAZZPA]

A sad result of the island being owned and policed by gangsters. More stories will start pouring out now, such as this one

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/09/17/islander-who-was-glassed-in-murder-island-koh-tao-tells-of-his-lucky-escape/

That the police have always covered up for the young wealthy scions of the influential local families has led to their feeling of being totally untouchable.

They have now given the island the name of "murder island", not good for tourists for sure.

I can't see how they can leave this one alone, even if it is the wealthy locals they have to be brought to justice. If they are never found this publicity will hang over Thailand for a long time and rumours will inevitably start and circulate.

If the global press get wind that the local police "may" be protecting local citizens (true or not) then it would be devastating for Thailand, there are already clear examples to draw upon and support such a theory like the Red Bull heir. It will send a message of how unprotected you are when coming here and how unsafe it can be. It will put a lot of fear into tourists if they think that there is no justice for foreigners whilst holidaying here and that they cannot rely on the police for protection and justice.

This could be a pivotal case for Thailand, I hope for the sake of the victims families and for the reputation of Thailand the killers are found and brought to justice.

[Always18]

You would think on a small island they would have this case wrapped up fairly quickly.

That's a rational deduction which has no place in a Thai scenario...........................

[CMCMANGOMAN]

Interesting comparison from my personal experience. My Thai next door neighbor attempted to kill me with a hoe. He threw it at my head from about 3 meters away with all his strength. I moved my head just in time to avoid certain serious injury or death. Upon missing me, he immediately jumped on his motorcycle and sped off with his wife to the local police station. Once there, he proceded to accuse me (the falang) of attempting to murder him with his own hoe!

Unfortunately for him, I know all the police and they like me. They told him to stop lying and get lost. He pressed the issue and used his wife as his witness. Eventually, the police threatened him with a large fine for having caused the falang trouble and wasting their time. I never bothered to file counter charges of attempted murder. TiT.

[ChrisY1]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

Agree, workers are particularly careful with keeping all their work tools safe, it can mean the difference between working and not.

Upcountry certainly but not in Koh Tao which is a rich island. Sure no hired worker has to be bring his hoe to work. The hoes are beign provided.

One of the reports suggested that hoes are commonly used there to make bonfires on the beach.

Hoes in Thailand are used for almost everything...they're everywhere and I'de say that almost every Thai home with a garden or land would have one.

[stevehaigh]

Who/Where does the hoe belong to? Someone has to be familiar with it - an item one usually does not find on a beach....

CB

not true at all, they are everywhere in Thailand. i bet i could walk out of my house and find one inside 50 meters.

[culicine]

I would suggest Koh Tao tourism is now dead or severely depleted, as long as a killer is allowed to walk free. No evidence so far of migrant worker or tourist involvement. It could well be a local or local islander. Who would want to visit there knowing a murderer is walking free and the police have been so incompetent/unwilling to catch the killer.

[zaZa9]

Well I say , 'Thank God for DNA Testing!' , or some innocent farang would be heading for a life time of hell in a Thai prison .

[biplanebluey]

A hoe is likely to be kept close to the beach by someone who goes crabbing or looking for shellfish etc. Perhaps it was close by and to hand.

I also believe this horrific crime was committed by 3 or more men. The investigation needs to move swiftly whilst the people that did it are still in panic mode.

As for the people that suggest the police don't care as to who they nail for this. The police have already had scapegoats from Myanmar and England they have released them as the evidence proved negative, they are continuing their investigations and hopefully they will catch them. This crime is hugely in the public eye and I'm sure the police have been made well aware they need to find the real killers and bring them to real justice.

I sincerely hope they get them and treat them the same as they treat this young pair whatever nationality they are.

None of us on here have any real idea of what happened we can only guess. I do believe we should keep posting and make sure it is understood that such acts of terrible violence cannot be forgotten or swept under the carpet.

I cannot disagree with your sentiments ,but I have now been here long enough to find it difficult to share your optimism about our police.They are an organization second to none for corruption,and their motives for catching criminals are always swayed by outside influence or just plain orders from above

[circusman]

It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

How you can say sounds like a local gang is beyond me. How in the heck can you deduct that ? Boggles the mind.

[circusman]

It would be nice to know if the DNA found in the semen was connected to the shared cigarette or the unshared one (or the lipstick one, but they didn't say they found DNA on that one). And what was the sex of the DNA found. If the shared one, then you have a strong suggestion of at least two attackers.

A hoe as a murder weapon seems to imply local people because tourists don't usually have access to hoes at night on the beach. Nor would they be likely to use one as a weapon, being unfamiliar with it.

Who is unfamiliar with a hoe ? Come on canuckamuck, get real.

[dotpoom]

Australia TV today showed the two suspect Farangs that were brought in for questioning......bad form to do that...it wouldn't happen in most countries until at least they were charged. Especially now that it looks as if they had nothing to do with this horrible event.

[BigC]

It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

Also their best get away would have been via the sea

This is a problem as if the killer has not been caught then this style of killing shall not only put females on edge but also males

I wonder if any workers have not turned up to work and got of there yet again the sensible thng would be to carry on as normal for as long as possible then make an excuse and leave the island

I wonder if the British Nation sore something which is why he left in a hurry as the attackers might be after him

If so he has to speak up if not then not my he can do