Koh Tao - DNA tests do not match with those of suspects in British tourists' murder

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

Agree, workers are particularly careful with keeping all their work tools safe, it can mean the difference between working and not.

Upcountry certainly but not in Koh Tao which is a rich island. Sure no hired worker has to be bring his hoe to work. The hoes are beign provided.

[ChrisY1]

Difficult for anyone to know exactly what's happening here when only yesterday afternoon we had the headlines that a british backpacker was arrested......

Is it that the news agencies are guessing for their news....or are the police making things up to appease everyone?

Whatever...it seems to me to be turning into a bit of a debacle at present....but time will tell of course, and hopefully arrests of the guilty will be made.

[jomcondo]

The cops already know who done it.

They may not have CSI here but their snitch network is 2nd to none.

it's going to make painful viewing for some.

[Dogmatix]

This is not a surprise at all. The circumstantial evidence against Chris Ware seems very thin and the Burmese were obvious police targets.

The longer it goes on without any credible arrests, the greater the suspicion of one of the normal causes of police investigative failure in violent crimes of tourists, i.e. police involvement. Here the names of Kirsty Jones, Leo del Pinto, Adam Lloyd and Vanessa Arscott (RIP) spring to mind and they must be a tiny tip of the iceberg. I wonder how many Thais have been murdered by serial police killers who are still at large to continue their lives of crime.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Katipo]

While the investigation (if you can call it that) is ongoing, the police would do better to shut their mouths rather than providing half baked speculation and opinion to the media and public. The police themselves are doing far more damage to Thailand's reputation than the murder itself.

I really feel for the family and friends of the victims, and all those who have been falsely accused by the police. It is completely disgraceful.

I hope certain TV members hold their tongues also as you never know who might be reading the drivel you type here. It is already widely accepted that TV is full of idiots, and too many people here are reinforcing that fact with their mouthing off.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

News are conflicting. Bangkok Post says that they now check up the DNA of the Brits. So the farang suspects are not yet cleared and for me certainly that guy leaving the island immediately after the murder is the prime suspect.

[Dogmatix]

News are conflicting. Bangkok Post says that they now check up the DNA of the Brits. So the farang suspects are not yet cleared and for me certainly that guy leaving the island immediately after the murder is the prime suspect.

Yes, but who else left on that ferry and where are they all now?

[FireMedic]

Was the dead male's DNA taken as well? If they were together prior, maybe it is his semen. Either way, a simple test can determine what race you should be looking for, African, Asian, or Caucasian.

[halloween]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

If you had bothered to read your own link you would find (in red) DNA CANNOT: Determine the age or race of the donor

[ebean001]

Be careful where you throw your DNA (cig butts).

[slygeeza]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

I would want to get out of there myself if my friend had just been murdered, and obviously they couldnt take him

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

The things we here so far point to two possible scenarios:

1. Murder out of jealousy. The killer sees (or hears, god sake the farangs are not quiet during sexual intercourse) the couple having sex on the beach and wants to take revenge on the girl. So picks up one of these hoes hanging around the bungalows and kills them. Prime suspects for this are clearly some farang.

2. Murder because of rape attempt. The killer sees the couple having sex on the beach and wants to join in the action. He or she or they is picking up a hoe in order to knock down the male. The victims fight and the knocking is so violent that they are getting killed. Prime suspects for this are more likely asian.

Normally we would tend to think that the second scenario is more likely. Asians do not respect any girl having sex in public and in any case for them farang practice free sex. So having witnessed the girl flirting with many boys and having public sex, they certainly want to join in.

[dBrown]

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It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

Hopefully, the police are looking for locals who left the island in a hurry. For example, somebody who didn't show up for work the next day, etc.

You guys have never been to Thailand or can't read or what ?

It has been made clear by police officials already that Thais don't do such horrific things, so they are excluded from every suspicion.

[Dogmatix]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

I would want to get out of there myself if my friend had just been murdered, and obviously they couldnt take him

Your best mate has just been brutally murdered there for no apparent reason. It is obviously a very dangerous place and you no longer have any mood to party and enjoy yourself there. You probably fear for your own life, particularly if you were a potential witness. You are thinking about going home, or at least getting out of what you now see as a horrible country as soon as possible. Why stay on Koh Tao?

[affen02]

I think the boy who left the island as fast as he could was scared, thinking he maybe would be targeted by the killers, sort of panic reaction.

[Dogmatix]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

If you had bothered to read your own link you would find (in red) DNA CANNOT: Determine the age or race of the donor

The Thai media were speculating on semen in the dead man's anus, based on the stories of bisexual depravity feed to them by the police.

[tx22cb]

I have wondered if this was a gang rape and killing. IIRC the woman was raped in both "places" and the man in one. I wondered how one guy could have the energy, if you will.

Wait - was the man also raped?

So what will the "Bikini" PM ban next - handsome tourists wearing swimming trunks at a beach?

[Dogmatix]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

Agree, workers are particularly careful with keeping all their work tools safe, it can mean the difference between working and not.

Upcountry certainly but not in Koh Tao which is a rich island. Sure no hired worker has to be bring his hoe to work. The hoes are beign provided.

One of the reports suggested that hoes are commonly used there to make bonfires on the beach.

[6NS]

It sounds to me as though there might have been multiple killers because of the sea water found in the male victim's lungs and evidence of a struggle by wounds on his body. One or more assailants was possibly attacking him including dragging him into the water, while one or more assailants was attacking the girl. The semen does not match the DNA of any of the suspects currently, and sound more like the actions of a local gang.

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

I would be focusing some of my staff (police force) on the employes at the party.

To me this is starting to look a little more planned.

[moe666]

I understand there will be a new CBS show offered on TV it will be called CSI Thaivisa

[ClutchClark]

Who/Where does the hoe belong to? Someone has to be familiar with it - an item one usually does not find on a beach....

CB

Actually it is the most common tool found on the beach because it is used by hotel groundskeepers daily to dig small holes to bury the seaweed that is raked up at low tide. Every hotel with beach access performs this task and has at minimum one long handled hoe stashed in the foliage at beach edge.

This bloody hoe will have several prints from hotel staff. It might also have prints from the assailant.

[minikev]

A hoe is likely to be kept close to the beach by someone who goes crabbing or looking for shellfish etc. Perhaps it was close by and to hand.

I also believe this horrific crime was committed by 3 or more men. The investigation needs to move swiftly whilst the people that did it are still in panic mode.

As for the people that suggest the police don't care as to who they nail for this. The police have already had scapegoats from Myanmar and England they have released them as the evidence proved negative, they are continuing their investigations and hopefully they will catch them. This crime is hugely in the public eye and I'm sure the police have been made well aware they need to find the real killers and bring them to real justice.

I sincerely hope they get them and treat them the same as they treat this young pair whatever nationality they are.

None of us on here have any real idea of what happened we can only guess. I do believe we should keep posting and make sure it is understood that such acts of terrible violence cannot be forgotten or swept under the carpet.

[smutcakes]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

Agree, workers are particularly careful with keeping all their work tools safe, it can mean the difference between working and not.

Upcountry certainly but not in Koh Tao which is a rich island. Sure no hired worker has to be bring his hoe to work. The hoes are beign provided.

One of the reports suggested that hoes are commonly used there to make bonfires on the beach.

And the fact there is building work going on continuously in the area, i have no doubt there were a few hoes lying around be there for beach work or mixing cement. Given the wealth and laissez faire attitude of some of the large families who own these areas, i doubt they would think twice about leaving their hoes lying around, no one would dare steal it.

[khunpa]

I find it extremely hard to understand, why it is so hard to find the person/persons who did this.

First of all based on the location and that the place must be filled with evidence. Also someone walking around must have clear wounds on him. If more persons did it, I doubt they will be able to hide it.

The fact that all the information coming out is clearly uncontrolled, shows that the total investigation is a complete mess and unprofessional. Also the fact that they let people leave the place after discovering the murders, is just plain stupid.

Then add to that comments like "No Thai could have done this" and you are already thinking... "This will never be solved" (just like other cases). Maybe Thais did not do it, but at least keep you mind open and look at all possibilities.

Edited September 18, 2014 by khunpa

[johnlandy]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

For any number of reasons 'that is why'

If the truth (the real truth) is ever established you will almost certainly find that the perps are citizens of the realm. 'nuff said'

[Toscano]

They still haven't said if the blood on the hoe matched that of the victims. I would think they should be coming out with that first. They are trying to hard to blame someone and make arrests for the sake of it. It's also interesting that BBC are still stating the pair were captured on cctv when it was retracted earlier on, and also they mention that a motive may be that they were having sex on the beach which is taboo in Thai culture!

What rubbish. At 4am they would have reasonably expected to have complete privacy. Their actions wouldn't have upset anyone. They were clearly stalked by predatory males, and then raped and killed.

I don't know where all this 'upsetting' the locals comes from. I have seen Thai couples having sex in a local park at night while I was out running. Also walked in on students at it in a classroom once.

Jeremy , Your experience of couples having sex was surely on the mainland and perhaps in a city . Island people are something completely different , with primordial instincts that have had little or no influence from more sophiticated mainland people .

[Briggsy]

DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

[JOC]

To my fellow posters, I have to give you credit for your imiganative skills!!

Have anyone even considered the possibility of a fishingcrew ashore for a good time??

Swim in, swim out!!

Edited September 18, 2014 by JOC

[jackspade]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Actually, DNA testing can't determine anything regarding race that's of any value to CSI, and the very link you provided mentions this fact. You can't take a piece of DNA and say, Oh, this guy is 1/3 Filipino, half Thai and part Burmese. It doesn't work like that. DNA can show ancestral DNA, but that rarely matches with a person's racial appearance (for instance, many "white" people have African American ancestral DNA.)

What can DNA tests determine, for purposes of CSI? Two things, plain and simple:

1. Match.

2. Not match.

Further info: http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

Edited September 18, 2014 by jackspade

[smutcakes]

They still haven't said if the blood on the hoe matched that of the victims. I would think they should be coming out with that first. They are trying to hard to blame someone and make arrests for the sake of it. It's also interesting that BBC are still stating the pair were captured on cctv when it was retracted earlier on, and also they mention that a motive may be that they were having sex on the beach which is taboo in Thai culture!

What rubbish. At 4am they would have reasonably expected to have complete privacy. Their actions wouldn't have upset anyone. They were clearly stalked by predatory males, and then raped and killed.

I don't know where all this 'upsetting' the locals comes from. I have seen Thai couples having sex in a local park at night while I was out running. Also walked in on students at it in a classroom once.

Jeremy , Your experience of couples having sex was surely on the mainland and perhaps in a city . Island people are something completely different , with primordial instincts that have had little or no influence from more sophiticated mainland people .

Christ, its 40Km off the coast of mainland Thailand, not some remote outback. I think you will find most of those who work their do not come from there originally, they come from the mainland, and secondly the real locals have plenty of funds, resources to educate their children where they want anywhere in the world, it is not some back country disjointed hicksville place.

The island has grown over the last 20 years on the back of diving, parties and general tourism, i dont think in general a prudish attitude to sex would really be anything different to mainland Thailand, actually you would expect the population would be far more acclimatized to farang than the majority of mainland residents.