'Deadly blasts' in China's Xinjiang

[webfact]

'Deadly blasts' in China's Xinjiang

(BBC) Two people have been killed and others hurt in a series of blasts in China's Xinjiang region, Chinese media say.

A local Communist Party news portal said the explosions took place in at least three locations in Luntai county.

Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.

In July, dozens were killed and injured in violence at police and government buildings near the city of Kashgar.

Two days later, the imam of a mosque in Kashgar, the largest mosque in China, was killed in an apparent targeted attack.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29306070


-- BBC 2014-09-22

[squarethecircle]

It'll be interesting to see if this shapes up into another Patani. Chinese police are quite willing to go out-and-out brutal - I read close to 300 militants or "militants" have been killed since the March-April attacks in Urumqi and Kunming, and when 2 people were stabbed to death in south Xinjiang the Ch. police/military ended up killing 6 militants/terrorists in the response. I wonder if this response will help keep the place from becoming like Patani, or whether that is the future despite Chinese anti-terrorist police's best efforts. I also read in a recent report that Chinese intelligence indicates that command-level officials in Pakistan's military are secretly or not-so-secretly aiding militants crossing into Pakistan to train...ironically enough in the exact same region in N Waziristan along the Pak.-Afgh. border that were targeted by the controversial US drone strikes. All of this I have read on the Sinocism newsletter which is worth subscribing to (just do a google search) for any China-related news.

[Publicus]

The CCP Boyz in Beijing who pride themselves on being hard nosed authoritarian dictators that immediately and decisively crush dissent, revolt, rebellion, are finding out what it means when your local Muslim population declares that you are their Great Satan.

First came the long knives of Uighur slashers in several PRC train stations of major cities in the West and the South over the past two years. Now come the bombs.

The Uighurs have become increasingly militant, provoked most recently and severely as Beijing has closed mosques and schools to include openly killing a couple of imams.

That the CCP Boyz 20 years ago concluded a major reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union was its inability to harmonize the many diverse ethnic groups within its vast borders makes the CCP Boyz all the more aggressive against their 'ingrate' Muslim comrades.

[squarethecircle]

"The CCP Boyz in Beijing who pride themselves on being hard nosed authoritarian dictators that immediately and decisively crush dissent, revolt, rebellion, are finding out what it means when your local Muslim population declares that you are their Great Satan."

It's like a bit of karma, no? The suicide attack in Urumqi in April was reportedly carried out in a fresh SUV, certainly there are more than poor locals educated in the local madrassah behind this. All the midst of high-security. I wonder if central Asian republics like Uzbekistan might also have a stake in "unrest" in Xinjiang continuing. PRC wants Xinjiang for its abundant resources but it seems other people have this in mind as well.

[squarethecircle]

"Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me."

Some are bad but most are good IME. You must be a Chinese as the only people I have heard say they are outright scared of them are Chinese. Certainly most westerners aren't. They also quite openly deal drugs in Beijing, and I wonder if this is used to fund the cause.

" If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt."

Well likewise, if you colonize Muslim lands you can expect bombs and terrorism as well. Then again, if you don't colonize them they'll want to colonize you. Seems like two great evils - PRC and radical/militant/savage Islam - having a rather explosive meeting.

[Publicus]

The CCP Boyz in Beijing who pride themselves on being hard nosed authoritarian dictators that immediately and decisively crush dissent, revolt, rebellion, are finding out what it means when your local Muslim population declares that you are their Great Satan. First came the long knives of Uighur slashers in several PRC train stations of major cities in the West and the South over the past two years. Now come the bombs. The Uighurs have become increasingly militant, provoked most recently and severely as Beijing has closed mosques and schools to include openly killing a couple of imams. That the CCP Boyz 20 years ago concluded a major reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union was its inability to harmonize the many diverse ethnic groups within its vast borders makes the CCP Boyz all the more aggressive against their 'ingrate' Muslim comrades.

Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me.

The Chinese in my experience have no serious problem with ethnic groups. There are after all something like 56 different groups in Mainland China. They do know how to handle those they fear though. If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt.

Uighur migrants worked and lived in the same city and throughout the industrial province of the PRChina where I lived and worked for four years. None of the economic migrants spoke any English so I had no interaction with them which was fine given they got in to riots in their neighborhoods because they were kept separated from the local women. The prime minister had to visit Shenzhen and Guangzhou cities to calm the Uighur laborers over fair pay, just treatment and to (not so loudly) assure them they would have access to a select and specialized group of Chinese women brought in exclusively to serve and comfort the Uighurs.

One would need to document the claim the CCP and the PRChinese haven't any challenges in respect of their ethnic groups. For one thing, it's the line of the CCP Boyz in Beijing that there are only 56 ethnic groups throughout the CCP. There are 56 recognized ethnic groups in the PRC, which reminds one of the perpetual conflict between Beijing and the Vatican over who appoints the cardinals, bishops, monsignors, priests, nuns and the lay church leaders. Religious practices and procedures are indeed a new source of conflict in Xin Jiang between the imams of Allah and the imams of the CCP.

The fact is the "sleeping dragon" never sleeps because it can't afford to sleep. The huge swarm of the People's Armed Police currently terrorizing the Uighurs of Xin Jiang are paramilitary forces founded in the early 1990s to relieve the People's Liberation Army of any further Tianamen Square kinds of actions - as in massacres - after the PLA objected to the role it had to play June 4-5 1989.

The long and the short of it is that the CCP Boyz in Beijing fear a lot because they have a lot to fear. Yes, Xin Jiang Muslims are going across the border to Afghanistan and Pakistan and to other places of the region to, ahem, get educated. The sleepwalking dragon is however ignored in Kabul and in Islamabad because Muslims stick together despite all the glad handing the CCP Boyz get from both places. Much to the Boyz' great disappointment Tehran has looked the other way as has Turkey. Malaysia continues to try to be polite to the Boyz as its Navy carries out manoevers with elements of the U.S. Pacific 7th Fleet.

Someone posed a very good question about a Pattani in Xin Jiang. The CCP Boyz and more importantly the PRChinese people themselves recognize it's already begun.

If you have any contact with PRChinese you'd know they are, well, terrified by developments in Xin Jiang, Beijing, the western and southern PRC, fearing for their lives now at train stations of the major cities of the PRC and they just don't know where else keep their eyes peeled. It's just not much comfort to any PRChinese travelling by any means in the PRC that the heavily armed PAP and their armored personnel carriers are highly visible at nearly every terminal, station, port or facility.

[squarethecircle]

"The huge swarm of the People's Armed Police currently terrorizing the Uighurs of Xin Jiang"

I'm not so sure about this. Are they terrorizing innocent Xinjiang people, or are they meeting a cruel and ruthless terrorist campaign with something equal? I mentioned before that there were 6 militants killed after 2 militants attacked civilians in the south of Xinjiang (I believe in Hotan if I remember correctly) last month. I kind of wish, having friends in the military in the south in Thailand, they would be able to launch an equally forceful crackdown, it does seem like China values its citizens' lives, as do Russia and Israel. And I guess you've seen that the secularized Muslims do have it fine in the mainland, at least the ones that don't cause trouble.

Another thought: I wonder how much corruption in China is going to present a problem. If you've been to expat-dominated parts of Beijing you have probably come across the Al-Qaeda looking guys offering illegal drugs. I'd bet 100 bucks that money is used to fund terrorist attacks, and would bet another 100 bucks that due to corruption/graft the Ch. police would continue to look the other way, maybe excepting small crackdowns, as I saw those guys continue to operate even when the local police patrol walked by.

[Publicus]

"The huge swarm of the People's Armed Police currently terrorizing the Uighurs of Xin Jiang"

I'm not so sure about this. Are they terrorizing innocent Xinjiang people, or are they meeting a cruel and ruthless terrorist campaign with something equal? I mentioned before that there were 6 militants killed after 2 militants attacked civilians in the south of Xinjiang (I believe in Hotan if I remember correctly) last month. I kind of wish, having friends in the military in the south in Thailand, they would be able to launch an equally forceful crackdown, it does seem like China values its citizens' lives, as do Russia and Israel. And I guess you've seen that the secularized Muslims do have it fine in the mainland, at least the ones that don't cause trouble.

Another thought: I wonder how much corruption in China is going to present a problem. If you've been to expat-dominated parts of Beijing you have probably come across the Al-Qaeda looking guys offering illegal drugs. I'd bet 100 bucks that money is used to fund terrorist attacks, and would bet another 100 bucks that due to corruption/graft the Ch. police would continue to look the other way, maybe excepting small crackdowns, as I saw those guys continue to operate even when the local police patrol walked by.

Some few people aren't sure but the CCP Boyz in Beijing are absolutely certain. It's a long standing rule that one person's separatist "freedom fighter" is another person's terrorist.

The CCP dictator in chief Xi Jinping was 100% sure when last month he said of Xin Jiang "terrorists": "We will catch them with nets spreading from the earth to the sky, and we will chase them like rats scurrying across the street, with everybody shouting, ‘Beat them.’ ” Xi made no distinctions between Xin Jian Muslims in general and any possible extreme minority of terrorists among them. Indeed, anyone who generations ago liked the Gestapo would love the CCP and its heavily armed People's Armed Security Police (contrasted to the unarmed regular Public Safety Bureau Police people see in the streets every day and who politely assisted me on more than one occasion).

And let's be clear about the fact the CCP cares only for its survival, its personal prosperity and its perpetual dominance over the PRC that enables its privileged position, unchallenged status, absolute rule. Whoever is perceived to threaten these absolutes - anyone suspected of it - will be completely destroyed.

Killings by China anti-terror cops raise concerns

Gillian Wong Associated Press

Updated: 09/08/2014

BEIJING (AP) — When attackers from China's minority Uighurs killed 37 people in a July rampage in far western Xinjiang, police responded by gunning down at least 59 of them. When three Uighurs allegedly killed a top state-appointed Muslim cleric, police shot dead two of them. When security forces led a raid on 10 suspected Uighur terrorists, they fatally shot all but one.

The incidents are part of a pattern raising concerns that Chinese police are excessively using deadly force in their bid to prevent more attacks by Uighur militants, who have killed dozens of civilians in train stations and other public places over the past few years. In some cities, patrolling SWAT units have already been authorized to shoot dead suspected terrorists without warning.

To understand just how tough it can be to determine whether China's hand is being forced — or whether officials are recklessly lashing out at those who resist them — consider this recent series of confrontations in Xinjiang: On Aug. 1, police cornered a group of alleged terrorists in an abandoned house and shot nine of them dead, arresting one. In June, police gunned down 13 "mobsters" who allegedly attacked a local police station. In April, checkpoint police fatally shot a teenage Uighur motorcyclist after he allegedly attempted to grab their guns.

http://www.ydr.com/nation-world/ci_26489492/killings-by-china-anti-terror-cops-raise-concerns

The CCP have no law defining terrorism or providing a legal definition of who or what is a terrorist, which is so very convenient for the CCP Boyz and their heavily armed and equipped paramilitary People's Armed Security Police that get more funding than the entire CCP military and have more members than the CCP armed forces. The PAP exists to thoroughly intimidate the PRChinese people. The direct consequence is that the PRChinese people aren't quite sure who their worst enemy might be.

[squarethecircle]

^^^you may be right on that, but do we see any evidence that the active XJ militant organizations are targeting Chinese Gestapo police? Certainly not in the KM or Urumqi attacks, those were normal people. I read a similar implication on Irrawaddy News this evening, that XJ militant groups are somehow "freedom fighters" against oppression by Chinese gov't, but the only example it gave of any "response to oppression" was a bombing of a brothel and nightclub. It is kind of offensive to colonize a Muslim land and then build brothels on it (not that Muslim males don't enjoy brothels in large numbers) but if the only example you can come up with of "all this terrorism is really just a response to oppression" is a bombing on a brothel, is it reasonable to claim the Chinese authorities are really being so over-handed in their crackdowns? I've seen the heavily armed police you described but can't see them attacking anyone who didn't make an attack themselves. Of course the point is not to justify CPC which I agree is in the service of evil, but simply to point out that the XJ militant groups that are getting in the news are another evil, linked to a much greater evil.

You do have to admit it seems like Muslims don't take bull-crap, the Han-man has invaded plenty of other places without a terroristic response, but has certainly gotten one in places like XJ and Pattani and it may be a taste of their own medicine, but I also think the main targets of the terrorism/"freedom-fighting" are mostly innocent civilians, soldiers, and police. No sympathy for them here.

[copa8]

The CCP Boyz in Beijing who pride themselves on being hard nosed authoritarian dictators that immediately and decisively crush dissent, revolt, rebellion, are finding out what it means when your local Muslim population declares that you are their Great Satan. First came the long knives of Uighur slashers in several PRC train stations of major cities in the West and the South over the past two years. Now come the bombs. The Uighurs have become increasingly militant, provoked most recently and severely as Beijing has closed mosques and schools to include openly killing a couple of imams. That the CCP Boyz 20 years ago concluded a major reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union was its inability to harmonize the many diverse ethnic groups within its vast borders makes the CCP Boyz all the more aggressive against their 'ingrate' Muslim comrades.

Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me.

The Chinese in my experience have no serious problem with ethnic groups. There are after all something like 56 different groups in Mainland China. They do know how to handle those they fear though. If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt.

you're dealing with Publicus, who anti-China/Chinese. if ISIS were operating in China, he'll call them freedom fighters.

[Publicus]

The CCP Boyz in Beijing who pride themselves on being hard nosed authoritarian dictators that immediately and decisively crush dissent, revolt, rebellion, are finding out what it means when your local Muslim population declares that you are their Great Satan. First came the long knives of Uighur slashers in several PRC train stations of major cities in the West and the South over the past two years. Now come the bombs. The Uighurs have become increasingly militant, provoked most recently and severely as Beijing has closed mosques and schools to include openly killing a couple of imams. That the CCP Boyz 20 years ago concluded a major reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union was its inability to harmonize the many diverse ethnic groups within its vast borders makes the CCP Boyz all the more aggressive against their 'ingrate' Muslim comrades.

Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me.

The Chinese in my experience have no serious problem with ethnic groups. There are after all something like 56 different groups in Mainland China. They do know how to handle those they fear though. If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt.

you're dealing with Publicus, who anti-China/Chinese. if ISIS were operating in China, he'll call them freedom fighters.

The statement invites the proper response that it is shallow and it is glib.

A serious or respectable post would go a long way around here.

But hey, then again probably not -- what could I have been thinking?

It wuz a brief and passing thought anyway.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Publicus

[squarethecircle]

"you're dealing with Publicus, who anti-China/Chinese."

We're kind of getting off-topic but anyways it is unfair to say he is anti-China/anti-Chinese. He seems to have quite an obsession with the CPC who I agree are up there with the Nazi Party and Imperial Japan in terms of nastiest. Probably unfair to derail the subject...but again it does some like karma, one evil meeting another evil...The nation is clearly interested in Xinjiang/E. Turkistan for its bountiful energy resources, like the Iraq of China. I'd like to head out there myself if I get a chance; I bet this area will become quite dangerous, even for westerners, over the next decade.

[Publicus]

Apparently I might be advised to say I do not support terrorism.

Muslim terrorism anywhere anytime for any reason or purpose is lunacy, Murder One. Mass murder besides.

Muslims in Xin Jiang have a lot more to complain about to the CCP Boyz in Beijing than Muslims in the ME or elsewhere have to complain against the United States or anyone else.

The PRChinese people are deeply concerned and apprehensive about Uighur long knife attacks in train stations in the West and the South and wonder what might be next and where. Which means the CCP Boyz throughout the PRC have a serious domestic security problem to deal effectively with.

The huge and highly disciplined paramilitary force that is the People's Armed Police are not your local cops dressed up to play war games, they are ruthless CCP members and a trained repressive force that are absolutely loyal to the Party which itself is the state. The raison d'etre of the PAP is to intimidate the PRChinese people themselves and, if ordered, to kill PRChinese people in whatever numbers. That such people as the PAP naturally draw the assignment to supress, repress, terminate, a separatist movement that itself is increasingly turning ruthless and violent makes me consider that it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

[arjunadawn]

Spend 30 minutes, twice a day, reading international news, and really let the gravity of the "muslim" problem sink in. Western Civilization is but one aspect of a quest for global domination by these nihilists. It is everywhere and the excuses elsewhere that muslim jihadis are a response to western policy in the middle east and Israel are indefensible.

[LawrenceChee]

The Chinese are being firm and not letting it sink it to take root before it becomes another ISIS

This perhaps the west can take a leaf for two ...better be ruthless now for a smaller community that is not engaged with the mainstream of the population than have a huge ongoing crisis involving more civilian deaths later ...

cue the Middle East where back flopping politics have led us to where we are now ...where the west have to first engage themselves constantly on a shifting ally position ...launch air strikes for short relative calm ..start again in a different region ...

[Publicus]

The Chinese are being firm and not letting it sink it to take root before it becomes another ISIS

This perhaps the west can take a leaf for two ...better be ruthless now for a smaller community that is not engaged with the mainstream of the population than have a huge ongoing crisis involving more civilian deaths later ...

cue the Middle East where back flopping politics have led us to where we are now ...where the west have to first engage themselves constantly on a shifting ally position ...launch air strikes for short relative calm ..start again in a different region ...

Thank you for the first two paragraphs as you consciously and knowingly stepped forward to present very frankly the Chinese mind clearly, directly, concisely.

However, then there is a sudden mixing of apples and oranges.

In the first two grafs the focus is domestic, then suddenly there is a leap to global and international terrorists based in a far away part of the world involving a mix of foreign people, governments, national and religious interests (among other factors). Each targeted enemy would require its own particular approach, means, methods, purpose, goal(s), would it not?

After all, the CCP doesn't need or want to send in to Xin Jiang the PLA Air Force to start bombing roads, vehicles, towns, buildings and so much else......does it. The CCP Boyz have the PAP on the ground, virtually everywhere doing the job it's expected to do, which is to protect the State by crushing separatism.

Nor are the Chinese people or their leaders up against ISIS or anything like it. Xin Jiang Uighurs are not an organized army trying to negate existing international borders. The CCP btw is not a model of any thing to any people any where or any time..

[Publicus]

Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me.

The Chinese in my experience have no serious problem with ethnic groups. There are after all something like 56 different groups in Mainland China. They do know how to handle those they fear though. If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt.

you're dealing with Publicus, who anti-China/Chinese. if ISIS were operating in China, he'll call them freedom fighters.

The statement invites the proper response that it is shallow and it is glib.

A serious or respectable post would go a long way around here.

But hey, then again probably not -- what could I have been thinking?

It wuz a brief and passing thought anyway.

I will give you a respectable post.

It is a good thing that people with cooler minds have the final say and as for heavy handed police then you only need to go to Melbourne on any day of the week.

As to calling me Chinese I can assure you that you couldn't be further from the truth but I did work there for many years and studied the fascinating history. Can you remember when the bamboo curtain fell and what caused it to fall? I can.

I'll need to see where and how I called you Chinese, that I said you are Chinese. I'd need to see that specifically and exactly. I understand you are not particularly insulted which I'd also understand. But I'd need to see the statement in which I said you are Chinese.

While I've never been to Melbourne or to Australia, I'd really hesitate before I would compare the police there to the highly disciplined paramilitary People's Armed Police that protect the CCP dictators of the PRC against its people.

The Bamboo Curtain.....I lived through the whole of the Cold War Era (1946-1991) so I'll PM my standard Cold War Quiz to you.

[LawrenceChee]

*Messed up quotes edited out*

I am uncertain why the police forces of the CCP deserves special mention ...there is police corruption and brutality everywhere . It's not right and it needs to be stopped and addressed

As I have mentioned in my previous posts ...people who frequently use extreme terms such as dictators , oppressors in forums should also have themselves examined because there is underlying current of hatred and one sided opinions that is dangerous and unbalanced.

The Chinese government is not perfect and they are doing their best in a diversified environment.

The ways of the west can be somewhat adapted to Chinese use but not all is relevant.

The logical thinking western partners also understand there are things the Chinese government can share that is noteworthy and useful to their own countries

If one only has a unified opinion that all of the Chinese CCP is bad and evil and blah blah blah ...it's boring, rhetoric and at risk of sounding rude it's almost akin to the terrorists of ISIS with their daily babble

Edited September 25, 2014 by Scott
Messed up quotes edited out

[squarethecircle]

"I am uncertain why the police forces of the CCP deserves special mention ...there is police corruption and brutality everywhere . It's not right and it needs to be stopped and addressed "

The ones Publicus is referring to - not the day-to-day Chinese police - are different from "police corruption and brutality" because they are there specifically to defend the Party's interests, and we've already seen they are quite prepared to murder people to further this cause.

"If one only has a unified opinion that all of the Chinese CCP is bad and evil and blah blah blah ...it's boring, rhetoric and at risk of sounding rude it's almost akin to the terrorists of ISIS with their daily babble "

Not all of them but at the core it's an accurate statement, at the core they're in the service of evil, same with Islamic terrorists. I read a quote from Mao to the effect that Chinese people are weak and easy to repress; I hope the good among them will prove him wrong. But it's not really relevant for Publicus to bring all this up when the subject is about the XJ groups, who have also shown they are quite willing to murder innocent Chinese's to protect/further their cause.

Edited September 25, 2014 by squarethecircle

[Publicus]

LawrenceChee

Posted Today, 06:35

I am uncertain why the police forces of the CCP deserves special mention ...there is police corruption and brutality everywhere . It's not right and it needs to be stopped and addressed

As I have mentioned in my previous posts ...people who frequently use extreme terms such as dictators , oppressors in forums should also have themselves examined because there is underlying current of hatred and one sided opinions that is dangerous and unbalanced.

The Chinese government is not perfect and they are doing their best in a diversified environment.

The ways of the west can be somewhat adapted to Chinese use but not all is relevant.

The logical thinking western partners also understand there are things the Chinese government can share that is noteworthy and useful to their own countries

If one only has a unified opinion that all of the Chinese CCP is bad and evil and blah blah blah ...it's boring, rhetoric and at risk of sounding rude it's almost akin to the terrorists of ISIS with their daily babble

The compulsion of authoritarians to require their critics to have their heads examined is a predictable and expected response to the criticism. It's what the Soviet Russian Communist Party did to its dissidents and it's what the Chinese Communist Party does to its critics. Now posters at TVF want head shrinking imposed against posters here.

Western intelligence agencies are unanimous in their database that the CCP's People's Armed Police is a paramilitary domestic security force that is highly disciplined, trained, armed, equipped. The PAP gets more funding than the entire Chinese armed forces and it has more members than do the CCP's armed forces.

The PAP were founded in the early 1990s in response to the objections of the PLA after the fact of the massacre by the PLA of Chinese people demonstrating in Tianamen Square, June 4-5 1989 as ordered by the Chinese Communist Party leaders in Beijing. Now the PAP exist to handle those same but lower profile everyday chores of the CCP Boyz in Beijing, the Uighurs of Xin Jiang being the most prominent current instance.

Your post also demonstrates how Chinese circular logic and Western Aristotelian logic differ radically, fundamentally, are opposite ways of thinking..

That Xi Jinping and his CCP just recently welcomed Robert Mugabe to Beijing with a 21 gun salute, lavish dinners and treatment indicates that, although countries of the West have had their weaknesses of leadership, the leadership in Beijing love other tyrant dictators who are also mass murderers of their own people.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

"I am uncertain why the police forces of the CCP deserves special mention ...there is police corruption and brutality everywhere . It's not right and it needs to be stopped and addressed "

The ones Publicus is referring to - not the day-to-day Chinese police - are different from "police corruption and brutality" because they are there specifically to defend the Party's interests, and we've already seen they are quite prepared to murder people to further this cause.

"If one only has a unified opinion that all of the Chinese CCP is bad and evil and blah blah blah ...it's boring, rhetoric and at risk of sounding rude it's almost akin to the terrorists of ISIS with their daily babble "

Not all of them but at the core it's an accurate statement, at the core they're in the service of evil, same with Islamic terrorists. I read a quote from Mao to the effect that Chinese people are weak and easy to repress; I hope the good among them will prove him wrong. But it's not really relevant for Publicus to bring all this up when the subject is about the XJ groups, who have also shown they are quite willing to murder innocent Chinese's to protect/further their cause.

The points are well taken with some extending and revising of them.

The poster you quote fails completely to consider or to recognize that I'd posted to the thread that the ordinary everyday police of the PRChina assisted me more than once against shady characters in the PRC, and that these unarmed Public Safety Police were polite and supportive of me in each instance.

Crime is rampant in the PRC so it's common that people's residences are enclosed by chain link fences or solid walls, and that all of their windows are covered by metal cages. It's just not unusual for a PRChinese to be the victim of crime on more than one unfortunate occasion, so foreign devils can also expect to be victimized to include by taxi drivers or by ghost-like pickpockets far more stealthy and slick than in other countries, and the like.

The unarmed Public Safety Bureau Police are the polite everyday servants of the society that the PRChinese people see in the streets throughout each day and night. They certainly have their flaws, but they absolutely are not the People's Armed Security Bureau Police (PAP).

I mention the People's Armed Security Bureau Police (PAP) because they are the huge and endemic police force that are paramilitary police, highly disciplined and trained, highly armed and equipped, and are the public internal security force that is directly engaging the Uighurs in their own occupied land and that are engaging Uighurs suspected of terrorism in armed confrontations and also in their villages throughout Xin Jiang.

It is the PAP the PRChinese people see standing with military automatic assault weapons at the ready in train and bus stations throughout the PRC since the long knife attacks by Uighur militants have killed dozens in the train stations of major PRC cities in the West and the South. It is the PAP people see in their armored personnel carriers at transport terminals throughout the country, the same PAP that are engaging the Uighurs on their own occupied soil.

[LawrenceChee]

There is without doubt Xinjiang belongs to China.

It seems strange one would described it as occupied lands as if everyday there is casted doubt Hong Kong still belongs to the UK.

After a terrorist attack, it's normal to send in the PAP who are trained for such scenarios to reinforce public order and reassure the crowds the government is taking things seriously and it's elevated protection .....when there is a similar situation in the USA , one sees the FBI tactical forces , SWAT teams all dressed in the same gear doing exacting the same as they try to secure the area

Even in defending a public street riot recently in USA , you see even the local police force all geared all , a move that was later described as overkill and did more to stir up public dissatisfaction than it's intended purpose of law enforcement

As for the PAP defending the party's interests ....logic would dictate the same teams above defend the USA constitution from foreign and domestic attacks why would it be any different in China ?

The USA constitution or any country's basic right of survival is the same as China's party ideals ...

Is China now not a sovereign country given the right to defend it's way of existence just because it's leadership is communist ?

One may disagree with communism or the type of leadership but the right to defend their own country and culture is surely their own right...visiting the country often or even working there gives us the right to an opinion but we are ultimately only visitors as we are in Thailand unless you are Chinese by birth right

[Publicus]

My god.

The People's Armed Police get more funding than the CCP's armed forces do, all and the whole of the CCP's armed forces. In stark contrast, the FBI is a line item in the U.S. Government budget that is nowhere remotely near or anywhere close to the budget of the Pentagon.

The PAP were organized in the early 1990s by the sovereign government of the People's Republic of China, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chinese Communist Party. The PLA generals objected to the sovereign CCP after the fact of the massacre by the PLA of Chinese citizens demonstrating in Tianamen Square, June 4-5 1989. The PAP have been the massacre go to guys ever since.

The constitution of the United States is predicated on the precepts and principles of the European Enlightenment. The constitution of the CCP and its People's Republic of China was inspired by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao and was written by the Chinese Communist Party. It would be difficult in the extreme to find two more contrasting documents pertaining to dictatorial rule versus democratic self government.

Sovereignty is not the issue. Twenty-first century fascism in Beijing is the issue and Xin Jiang separatism (as well as Hong Kong and Taiwan) are the current premier demonstration project and model of it being brought to the world by the CCP Boyz in Beijing.

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Democratic self government is a long shot in describing a 2 party rule that has been going like ping pong every 4 years.

Having one more choice than the CCP is not real democracy in a grand scale or any more effective. The rule of vote is not the only way to govern or the best although I can see the fairy tale likeness in attracting some in thinking they make a difference in the world by that

In trying to present that as the ultimate solution is the arrogance that graces the many social and political problems of the west.

I actually enjoy the rule of democracy in the Scandinavian countries where it's about fairness and equity and will continue to push that to the central committee in CCP as the model to follow

As for replicating that for 1.3 billion people and the scale involved ..it will take years to tweaking and some mistakes along the way to get it right.

However it will be in China's time and decision to make that happen and all the rush of the west atypical of trying to leave a legacy in 4 years of presidency is not the same as a 10 year one

There is no rush for the Chinese CCP to reform at a pace dictated by the west and we will do it our own way in according to our customs and culture and in the right time when we feel it is right

[Publicus]

There are very few two party democracies. Most parliamentary governments are coalition governments that must necessarily be inclusive. Even in the exceptional system such as the USA where two major parties dominate, the rights of the minority party and its voters are protected and respected.

In the PRC no one votes for the CCP so to say democracies have only one more choice that the PRChina people have is completely wrong. The PRChinese have no vote and thus no choice whatsoever. Anyone who says the PRChinese have one fewer "choice" than voters in a given Western multi-party democracy must have just crash landed here from a life and civilization on another planet.

The West is defending itself against ruthless and primitive aggressive religious fanatics. Beijing is further imposing itself across the lands of the former East Turkistan Islamic Republic, which it calls Xin Jiang (New Frontier) and whose people it must fight and kill to subjugate.

[harryfrompattaya]

Spend 30 minutes, twice a day, reading international news, and really let the gravity of the "muslim" problem sink in. Western Civilization is but one aspect of a quest for global domination by these nihilists. It is everywhere and the excuses elsewhere that muslim jihadis are a response to western policy in the middle east and Israel are indefensible.

Uighurs are against the Chinese because the Chinese are supporting Israel against the Arabs in the Mideast.

Remember who are the grandfathers of Communism is

Israel China Russia EU and US are going to act together against the Muslims soon.

[arjunadawn]

Spend 30 minutes, twice a day, reading international news, and really let the gravity of the "muslim" problem sink in. Western Civilization is but one aspect of a quest for global domination by these nihilists. It is everywhere and the excuses elsewhere that muslim jihadis are a response to western policy in the middle east and Israel are indefensible.

Uighurs are against the Chinese because the Chinese are supporting Israel against the Arabs in the Mideast.

Remember who are the grandfathers of Communism is

Israel China Russia EU and US are going to act together against the Muslims soon.

Yes, and those in Yala oppose the Thai because... and Abu Sayaf has been hurt by Manila, and Jamiah Ialamia opposes... what? The Muslim Indonesian state? And boko harem has been aggrieved, and UK Muslim jihadis have been harmed by liberal multiculturalism. Cheyna Muslims oppose Moscow because... A on and on and on and on ad nauseum.

It's a condition of modern self loathing that the west inculcates into people the absurd notion that no one is responsible for their actions, unless of course they are of a western culture. Indeed, every single Muslim jihadi action throughout the world, if itemized and considered through a very narrow filter, can offer some victim narrative. However, isn't it odd that the very scriptural references... indeed, 1400 years of Islamic history demand continued expansion and slaughter of idolaters and infidels?

We can consider your point and discuss it; not to do so is ignorant. However, when one considers the infection globally it is apparent that modern Islamic expansion is just a continuation 1400 years of the madness of hate politics and ideology, dangerously wrapped in divine mandate. It's absurd to conclude that the entire world is on fire because of massive and coincidental injustices to all peoples who happen to be Islamic! At a certain point- now!- this absurd denial must be confronted. Muslims are at war everywhere because Islamic scripture demands it. You cannot prove me wrong because it's grossly evident, not even interpretative. Islam remains in dar al harb- House of War until dar al salam- House of Peace is established=global Islam!

The reason there is this mythical silent Muslim majority is because they do not have a scriptural leg to stand on in the face of warring Muslim jihadis, who nearly always cite Koranic and ahadith authority.

Edited September 26, 2014 by arjunadawn

[LawrenceChee]

There are very few two party democracies. Most parliamentary governments are coalition governments that must necessarily be inclusive. Even in the exceptional system such as the USA where two major parties dominate, the rights of the minority party and its voters are protected and respected.

In the PRC no one votes for the CCP so to say democracies have only one more choice that the PRChina people have is completely wrong. The PRChinese have no vote and thus no choice whatsoever. Anyone who says the PRChinese have one fewer "choice" than voters in a given Western multi-party democracy must have just crash landed here from a life and civilization on another planet.

The West is defending itself against ruthless and primitive aggressive religious fanatics. Beijing is further imposing itself across the lands of the former East Turkistan Islamic Republic, which it calls Xin Jiang (New Frontier) and whose people it must fight and kill to subjugate.

55555555555555555555555555555....in the USA minority rights are protected and respected.

It's delusional thoughts that allow some to think they have the right to lord over others and impose their values thinking it's a one size fit all solution for the world

[P45Mustang]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

[arjunadawn]

There are very few two party democracies. Most parliamentary governments are coalition governments that must necessarily be inclusive. Even in the exceptional system such as the USA where two major parties dominate, the rights of the minority party and its voters are protected and respected.

In the PRC no one votes for the CCP so to say democracies have only one more choice that the PRChina people have is completely wrong. The PRChinese have no vote and thus no choice whatsoever. Anyone who says the PRChinese have one fewer "choice" than voters in a given Western multi-party democracy must have just crash landed here from a life and civilization on another planet.

The West is defending itself against ruthless and primitive aggressive religious fanatics. Beijing is further imposing itself across the lands of the former East Turkistan Islamic Republic, which it calls Xin Jiang (New Frontier) and whose people it must fight and kill to subjugate.

Great post but I am curious: is China actually expanding into new lands? I basically cant see how this is China but hasn't china long claimed the areas under discussion?