Bachelor's Degree graduates in Thailand face a bleak future for their careers

[IamNoone88]

i watched with interest as friend did a Thai Bachelors degree. We were at that level at 12 years old. It is quite worthless. The ratio should be 1.5 as many without education are grafters and sometimes that is all you need.

[dinger]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

Correct, I have seen jobs here in Thailand where they require bachelors degree, but same thing in USA requires only a high school diploma. So Thai degrees are no where near the same standard as western degrees.

Anyway, that's really not the issue. The issue is that Bachelor Degrees were never meant as being vocational programs. They are purely education for the sake of learning only.

If ever anyone learnt anything in a Bachelors degree it was to be able to think, question, understand problems and find solutions. That's not enough for a career or job. But it's a good start. If any graduate can't make out with that then they really should have chosen a trade school instead.

This is most likely the most insightful post on the state of play in Thailand on this whole thread... although I dont fully agree with your statement of standards of Thai degrees versus western degree's, IMHO the standard of "western degree's" has certainly "dumbed" down considerably over the last 25-30 years and just about any monkey even with marginal literacy in the 3 "Rs" can get a degree in the west these days...

There is a decided lack of proper vocational, training/skills/careers in Thailand, ie your electrian's, plumbers, welders, ie hands on skilled professsions/jobs and this is where the focus should be in giving people marketable skills and rewarding careers, there is too much emphasis on obtaining a "bit paper" which doesnt give a person hand's on skills.

The funny thing from personal experience is I dont think a lot of people realise how much money a skilled good hands "tradesman" can make, for example I know Thai welders, real welder's i might add , not the sun glasses/burning bits of wire varient most TV believe are "welders",

Some of these boys are "creaming" it and would make the vast majority of graduate's blush, when it comes to the earning/career stakes and most have not done much more than completed high school and most even havent been to a trade school and have THB 5-10 milion houses (paid for) new cars every couple of years, and very little worry about the amount of money in the bank, now although some earn their money working out side Thailand, there are some in the same position who have never worked outside Thailand.

and how have they done this you may ask ?......being skilled hands on welders, not a degree in sight

Would tend to agree the U S standard has gotten lower over the years, and not trying to compare educational systems between countries. But I can ask my daughter to add up 3 fairly simple numbers and first thing she does is reach for a calculator. But I do beleive she now has an advanced degree in Facebook

To me it appears to be a double edge sword here, the students are not getting much to work with once the graduate and Thailand has completly over saturated the market with brand new degreed workers. I live in a decent size city in Issan and we have 2 large universities here which sends out who knows how many brand new grads each year. Multiply that by all of the schools nation wide and no wonder they have a hard time finding a job.

Just a side note I notice there are a lot of vocational schools around, any idea what sort of programs they run there, just wondering

[lahgon29]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

My wife has a bachelor of accounting from Ubon Uni...I am often amazed at her skill with figures. You are wrong, sir...Most bachelor degrees are worth EXACTLY the paper they are printed on [as long as It's A4 from a discount stationary]

[Sydebolle]

As long as the system patronises everybody and it is impossible to fail ..... it makes the face value of a BA look like a flattened piece of paper which usually comes rolled and used in a rest room. Since the subject of below-zero standard schooling and education has been covered over and over you might just close the thread instead 8-)

[selftaopath]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

I wonder if the other degrees from Thai Universities are worth a damn either. Hell, how many have been purchased etc. And these "degreed" people think they can find suitable employment? Well not outside Thailand I suspect - with the exception of Dr. T. lol. Maybe not even in Thailand if nepotism/corruption is not an issue

[GarryP]

I do not know where some of you get the idea that it is not possible to fail. Try studying at Ramkamhaeng. The fail rate is very high. Open university I know, but grading is very strict. In some faculties the failure rate is up near 80 percent.

[selftaopath]

trouble is that the degree of knowledge associated to these degrees is very minimal, in reality they are no better than a western high school leaver and that doesnt mean finisher, it means someone that left as soon as they were able. When these people are still unable to add up manually, spell correctly or even understand an equation there is a big reason they are not able to get work. To pass a degree these days is a joke, they used to mean something 20 years ago when you needed to have a brain and think to be able to p[ass but no longer. Even iv]n schools they teach absolute garbage to the students, they treat them like idiots with their pass no matter what you answer tests and when only one class(out of several at the same level)actually teaches the harder subjects due to the fact most students cannot even fathom what the classes are about it becomes obvious.

Maybe some old fashioned learning and actually having to pass exams to advance or get a degree might help but I doubt it.

Maybe these "educated" Thais might consider mimicking farmers e.g. petition the govt. for subsidies... lol

[tim armstrong]

Two key questions - is the purpose of education to broaden the general knowledge of students and meet their own interests or to train them to do some kind of specific job, technical or otherwise? If its more about training then let the industries themselves design curricula and schools, so that the graduate is able to perform properly a specific sets of tasks and has a clearly identified skill set. The hotel and IT industries come to mind where they have their own colleges and training schemes producing professionals in a defined discipline. The bachelor degree maybe then becomes a gateway and introduction into this world.

[ezzra]

If you call cheating, plagiarizing and down right buying the degree a " bachelor Degree"

than no wonder no one put much stock in those worthless papers...

[Baerboxer]

Same as the UK. Do a pointless easy degree and what do you expect ?

What are your degrees in?

Edited September 22, 2014 by Baerboxer

[MaiChai]

My Thai wifes view on this: employers don't want to pay the price of a graduate because non grads are cheaper. You can read into this that graduates don't offer a benefit over non grads, thus the standard of Thai graduates must be low, and this is despite the costs involved in getting a degree. Thus raise the standards and make sure grads have the skills businesses want. This will reduce the amount of graduates getting qualified (including the dross), increase the skill level and make it worth while taking on graduates.

Reminds me of the mba glut; too many with the qualification without it meaning anything.

[tomross46]

Students are tough to pass the test, but are not tough how to work or think. If you have an education but do not know how to apply it to the real world, you will will fail. When you finish you degree, get a job and learn how to work, how to follow instruction and documented processes. Just because you have a degree does not indicate that you know everything. I have had recently graduated engineers come into the factory and tell an operator how to run their machine, and they could not operate the equipment themselves. You learn by doing, and failing, not by the book. If you make a mistake, learn form it, but do not make the same mistake twice.

[Baerboxer]

If you call cheating, plagiarizing and down right buying the degree a " bachelor Degree"

than no wonder no one put much stock in those worthless papers...

There are a great deal more on-line, pretend Universities dishing out degrees and qualifications of all sorts in the West than Thailand.

I have dealt with several Universities here, and the standard is very good. Certainly much higher than equivalent courses in India and the Philippines.

I lectured part time at a University in the UK, examined and designed specific courses. If you failed someone or awarded a lower grade than expected you were put under pressure to review it again in a more "open minded" way. I have several friends who currently lecture (some as professors) at US universities and they tell some interesting tales.

There are scoundrels all over the world, and education is, IME, very variable in quality all over the world.

That's my experience - so pray tell, how many examples of cheating, plagiarizing, and paying for degrees have you been involved with?

However, many bachelor and master's students I've met here leave a lot to be desired with their work ethic, and don't seem to take the learning skills acquired into other activities with them.

[CNXTim]

The news article was singularly vague and downright foolish. what is there to comment upon?

[Minnehaha]

This seems to be a global problem as tertiary education is encouraged and/or made possible, especially in western countries, where the growth in the sector hides the true unemployment rate. Also the spike in masters and doctorate holders is due to not being able to get a job, so staying on at university is just to fill in time, except for the really bright and able. Trouble is they think it's free in the western world, but we end up footing the bill for the unpaid billions$$$ loans they take out - and govt lets them off.

In the US if a person does not pay back a student loan it never 'goes away". It becomes a liability with interest charged and eventually the IRS gets it either through seizing assets, garnishing wages, reducing any social security you might see at old age, and even any money inherited.

[kimamey]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

Correct, I have seen jobs here in Thailand where they require bachelors degree, but same thing in USA requires only a high school diploma. So Thai degrees are no where near the same standard as western degrees.

Anyway, that's really not the issue. The issue is that Bachelor Degrees were never meant as being vocational programs. They are purely education for the sake of learning only.

If ever anyone learnt anything in a Bachelors degree it was to be able to think, question, understand problems and find solutions. That's not enough for a career or job. But it's a good start. If any graduate can't make out with that then they really should have chosen a trade school instead.

You're probably right about the difference in standard between degrees in Thailand and elsewhere but could another reason for Thai companies asking for degrees be because they feel degrees are important and 'elite'? They don't necessarily understand much about degrees but it's the thing to have, which is possibly also why there seem to be so many graduates.

Edited September 22, 2014 by kimamey

[Lukecan]

This is a global problem.

Getting into college is so damn easy these days, heck I was one of the worst students in my class back in the day, and now I'm about to graduate from the best university in my country. I don't know how I got in, but I got in.

I'm majoring in Management Information Systems, tbh I have no clue what I'm going to do after I graduate. The only thing I'm good at is the stock market, I've made a few million baht in the last 4 years trading with my dads money, lol. What leads me to believe that I'm a good trader is that I even made money in the bear market. I'm trying to build up a decent portfolio which will give me a dividend income of at least 2m/baht/year

The idea of working for someone else disgusts me, I want to find a niche and go from there, but I still haven't found that niche and I'm about to graduate from uni, 7 courses left to graduation

[zoroastra999]

Simple common sense would suggest that the value of a degree is directly proportional to the number of students that fail. In other words, if everyone graduates from a particular university then the degree certificate is worth no more than a criminal fake. Yet how many students with an English major (for example) can’t string together a coherent sentence? Surely they’ve got a fake degree issued by a real university – and we must regard that as a crime. Time and money have been stolen from the innocent, and those responsible should be banged-up like other big-time criminals.

[Nowisee]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Sadly, this is such an accurate statement. It's astounding the level of incompetence and lack of intellect in graduates from so called "Universities" here.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Nowisee

[phantomfiddler]

That could be something to do with the fact that they leave university knowing absolutely nothing ! From my 33+ years of observation here I would guess that a mere english O-Level pass would require a much higher degree of useful knowledge than a thai university degree, and until the powers that be do something about the lamentable state of education I see no imminent improvement

[wabothai]

Thailand needs lots of development. When these guys and gals get of their behind there will be plenty of work. Are they capable of creating their own jobs? Thailand has a long way to go with plenty of opportunities. The money lies in the street.

[eddie61]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Especially a BA in " English '.

englit

[eddie61]

Same the world over for most fields of study. parents were wrong to send their kids to university. trade school is a better bet for most

And at 25 years of age they will have accrued more wealth than the usual university graduate, especially in a country like Australia. Plumbers and electricians do quite well for themselves. Vocational courses are seen only for the poor people, which is pretty sad. Salaries are very low here too.

Try in Belgium to find a plumper my ant at to wheat about 2 months to get a plumber at home for repair

well, I assume that english language skills are in short supply in Belgium

[razer]

Like I have said 1,000 times. A degree will get an interview but once employed, no one cares where you went to school... the only thing a company cares about is if a person can do the job and do it well.

The degree itself is not important. What is learned ... the tools acquired in university are important. A university is where a person should learn how to think ... not what to think.

[eddie61]

Thailand needs lots of development. When these guys and gals get of their behind there will be plenty of work. Are they capable of creating their own jobs? Thailand has a long way to go with plenty of opportunities. The money lies in the street.

It has its advantages... Pretty young female university graduates are accommodating for the price of a fake brand-name handbag. Why do you think Bangkok got an international airport!

Edited September 22, 2014 by eddie61

[allan michaud]

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Same in the US. A degree in underwater basket weaving gets you nowhere. You could go to Thailand and teach English for 30k baht.

But a degree in any of the computer sciences will land a good job. So will medicine. There is a shortage of those people.

So a person needs to choose a specialty that's in demand and really learn it. I don't know if that can be done in Thailand. Many of those people studied overseas. Also Thailand isn't a country with much technology; they use what's developed in the West. They manufacture computer hard disks and smartphones but the jobs are factory jobs for Thais because they didn't develop and advance the technology. The same is true with autos and scooters. They are working for someone else who has the technology.

It might also help if so many people didn't buy their degree. I have lost count of the stories I have heard of Thai graduates not even having the most rudimentary knowledge of the subject they have a degree for. The best one I heard was an IT degree holder that couldn't open a Hotmail account. Degrees in the west maybe pretty worthless too, but at least there is a fair chance the person actually did the course and has some knowledge of the subject.

[AlphMichaels]

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This seems to be a global problem as tertiary education is encouraged and/or made possible, especially in western countries, where the growth in the sector hides the true unemployment rate. Also the spike in masters and doctorate holders is due to not being able to get a job, so staying on at university is just to fill in time, except for the really bright and able. Trouble is they think it's free in the western world, but we end up footing the bill for the unpaid billions$$$ loans they take out - and govt lets them off.

This is a topic of great interest to me. Reality is there are many (western) countries that provide quality university education programs without burdening the system or student (financial debt) and thus benefit from them. The USA is not among them.

Thailand university educations are abysmal at best. Even those who graduate from top schools here like ISB go to US or UK institutions.

They're the fortunate ones and usually because they come from well educated and wealthy families here.

The best test the education ministry could undertake would be to plant some of their graduates into western institutions to compare how they do among their "peers".

[mok199]

this is a global problem.. ''DAH.!!!!!....well there is always familly mart and big C

Edited September 22, 2014 by mok199

[Asiantravel]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Especially a BA in " English '.

I have never once found a person in Thailand with a BA in English that can even hold a decent conversation in English

[Asiantravel]

Like I have said 1,000 times. A degree will get an interview but once employed, no one cares where you went to school... the only thing a company cares about is if a person can do the job and do it well.

The degree itself is not important. What is learned ... the tools acquired in university are important. A university is where a person should learn how to think ... not what to think.

" learn how to think "

erm….. In that case , Houston, we have a problem