Pet Dogs & Small Children In Thailand

[udon]

This story is from Aus, but can apply to any country,

especially Thailand with it's packs of soi dogs.

Neighbour Tom Wilson..."Don't trust any of the bastards. And don't let this happen to you."

Inset, two of the dogs that mauled Tyra to death

Trust turns to tragedy: a little angel lost in backyard attack

Stephen Gibbs and David Braithwaite

July 21, 2006

TOMMY WILSON thought he was a good judge of animals - he had been a drover, and owned dogs all of his life. Then he found four-year-old Tyra Kuehne in his backyard on Wednesday night.

"You walk out the back, and the dog looks up at you as if there's nothing wrong," Mr Wilson said, recalling what he saw. "She'd been out there a million times …"

Mr Wilson's son, Joel, owns the three pig dogs that mauled Tyra to death behind their home at Warren, a two-pub town 20 kilometres off the Mitchell Highway between Nyngan and Narromine.

Neither was there when Tyra opened the gate and climbed a fence into their yard, but Joel had been among the last to see her.

"The fact of the matter is the little girl is a very close friend of the family," Mr Wilson told the Herald. "She's here every day."

Mr Wilson treated Tyra as his own daughter. "She's a little angel," he said, rubbing his eyes.

The Premier, Morris Iemma, last night said Tyra's death was "a tragedy" and showed the intent of tough regulations on dangerous dogs needed to be reflected in how the legislation was enforced.

The Minister for Local Government, Kerry Hickey, said any dog could be classified as dangerous and councils had to redouble their efforts to make the streets safer.

Mr Hickey said he would amend the Companion Animals Act to make it easier for council rangers to classify a dog as dangerous.

Tyra lived with her mother, Fiona, and her brothers, Dylan, 7, and Joshua, 5. Their father, Peter, lives at Mount Druitt with the estranged couple's oldest child, Jayden, 9.

On Wednesday, Tyra walked from her home half a dozen houses along Garden Avenue. She was carrying a dead chicken over her shoulder, which she may have intended to give to the dogs. Joel Wilson took the bird from Tyra and threw it away. He drove her home about 2pm.

"I got home at seven o'clock, around about seven," Mr Wilson told the Herald. "And her mother had sent the older brother here to the door. He asked me if I'd seen Tyra and I said 'no mate, I just got home, I've been away, she's not here'."

Mr Wilson, sitting outside his front door, lowered his head and dragged on a cigarette. "Yeah, anyway, I went next door for a bit, went into the neighbours' for a minute, and I came back here and as I did the little girl's mother asked the neighbour would she go looking for Tyra with her.

"I said she may have fallen asleep in an old car, a Subaru, she plays in around the side there. Went around, flicked the light on, no Tyra."

As Tyra's mother and the neighbour were leaving, Mr Wilson heard something. "One of the dogs barked out the back. I turned the back light on to see which one it was and I took a couple of steps down the path."

In the yard he could see two of his son's dogs had broken free of their chains and joined a bitch that had not been restrained. Then he saw something else.

"I thought it was a big doll that she'd been playing with to start. But it turned out to be the little girl, lying face down on the lawn. I turned the little darling over. It was Tyra."

Mr Wilson could do nothing to save the girl.

"I ran out the front, told her mother that she's in the backyard and the dogs, or dog, have attacked her. Her mother screamed frantically, 'Bring her out.' I said, 'I can't."'

An ambulance took Tyra to Warren Hospital, where paramedics arrived by plane from Sydney about 10.30pm.

"They told me she was still breathing, slightly," Mr Wilson said. Another flight carrying blood arrived an hour later, but Tyra was pronounced dead about 3am.

Peter Kuehne was awaiting Tyra's arrival at the Sydney Children's Hospital when he took the terrible call.

"I don't think any words can describe how I'm feeling at the moment," he said. "I don't want to put it into a whole lot of words - she's left a very empty hole."

Mr Kuehne said he couldn't blame anyone for his daughter's death, but vowed never to own a dog again.

The three dogs that mauled Tyra are now at the pound in Dubbo.

Mr Wilson thought himself a good judge of a dog's nature - the attack on Tyra was "right out of the dogs' character", he said. "I wouldn't like anyone on earth to go through what our families are going through at the moment. I wouldn't wish that on the devil himself. What dogs do you trust? F---ing none. That's what I say. Don't trust any of the bastards. And don't let this happen to you."

********************

A few tips: by Mary M. Alward

* Never leave a child alone with a dog, no matter how well they get along. This puts the dog in a position of authority. He feels he is in the position of alpha dog when he's with children. This also goes for female dogs.

* Do not let young children walk a dog or play rough with the family canine.

* Never allow your children to approach or pet a strange dog even if the owner is present. This is asking for trouble. No matter how docile the dog is, he may not want a child sticking his fingers in his ears, poking his eyes or pulling his tail.

* Do not allow children to go near your dog if he/she is eating or sleeping. Startling a sleeping dog can invite an attack and dogs, including my own, are very protective of their food.

* Never approach a dog that is tied on a chain. My dog, Meeko, is a gentle giant, but when he is tied in the yard, he is very protective of the property. When he's on his leash, he befriends everyone.

* Don't horse around in fron of your dog/s.

Signs of Danger

Dogs tell us of impending danger with their body language. If you see the following signs, use extreme caution.

* Backward leaning posture.

* Teeth bared or the mouth shut tight.

* Tail lowered.

* Ears flat against the dog's head.

* Hackles raised.

If a dog approaches you and you feel you are in danger, there are tips that should be followed.

* Stand tall, stand still and don't move. Never run. When you run, this initiates the "hunt instinct." The dog will chase you.

* Always face the dog at a slight angle.

Do not make eye contact, use your peripheral vision.

Attacks most often occur from behind.

* Never try to make friends with the dog.

* Allow the dog to sniff you, but never extend your hand.

* If you are knocked down by the dog, roll into a fetal position and cover your head with your arms and hands. Be sure to protect your throat. Remember, you only do this if you are knocked down. Never put yourself on the ground.

Teach your children these rules as soon as they are old enough to understand. Many dog bites are avoidable and we need to educate ourselves in order to avoid attack.

Any more tips?

[sbk]

Good post udon, too many people fail to understand their dogs and underestimate their power.

Small children are often the victims because 1) they are on the dogs level and 2) their parents fail to teach them appropriate behavior with dogs, any dogs including the family pet.

[thaigerd]

As you can see from my avatar we have a big dog.

But it means a lot of respnsibility as well and some knowledge about dog's behaviour;

It took a bit more than 2 years for training and socializing our dog.

But I know there's always a risk left cause they are animals.

My wife and me we have one rule:Outside from our house/garden the dog is always on the leash, always!!!

I cannot expect other people to understand dog's behaviour and their drives.

I can see my dog's reaction when he sees running children on the beach or playing with their footballs. He just wants to "play" with them but it could turn around cause the dog does not understand all their movements.

It even can happen with family dogs who are grown up for years with the kids.

Gerd

[udon]

Exactly, some dogs, regardless of their size, regard toddlers as another type of dog.

The chihuahua is one good example...

[Nienke]

My heart goes out to the family and the owner of the dog, who must be over-shadowed with sorrow and guilt.

How was it possible that such a horrible and fatal accident could happen?

As nobody was there at the time the accident occurred we can only assume of what has really happened. A summary and 4 scenario’s:

* The 4 year old was able to enter the territory of the dog pack without supervision and without the owner (that is the alpha ‘dog’) being present.

* The 4-year old, although visiting the house on a daily basis, did not belong to the pack..

* The 4 year old smelled after chicken or may even had picked up the old dead chicken and fed them to the dogs.

* The 4 year old was too young to be able to recognize the signals the dogs have given her. Normal dogs do not just attack without reason and without communicating first.

* The 4 year old was too young to be respected by the dogs as a higher rank, and thus, unable to control the dogs.

* When dogs bite they do that often straight forward, meaning they will reach an adult’s leg but a child’s shoulder or head.

Scenario 1

The dogs initially might have greeted the little girl in a friendly manner, as they knew her. But the smell of the chicken might have excited them, where the girl started giggling and swaying her arms around. This might have made them even more excited, on which the girl reacted with more high-pitched giggling or screaming and more swaying with the arms. Only this or together with the smell of the chicken, that the child was still carrying with her, might have triggered the dogs’ predatory instinct.

Scenario 2:

The girl came to the house, opened the gate while entering the territory of the dogs. The dogs, while guarding their territory, came dashing towards the intruder while fiercely barking. The girl became frightened, started screaming in a high-pitched voice and at the same time swaying her arms around and might even have tried to run away, triggering the predatory instinct of the dogs.

Scenario 3:

The girl entered the dog’s territory with the chicken. The dogs became highly excited and tried to take it from her. As she was only 4 year old she could not control the dogs. The girl got frightened, started screaming in a high-pitched voice and at the same time swaying her arms around and might have even tried to run away. The predatory instinct of the dogs might have been triggered.

Scenario 4:

The girl came in with the chicken and gave it to one of the dogs. The dogs started quarreling over this delicious treat. The girl might have tried to separate them and ended up in between the fighting dogs.

Were the dogs mean? No, I don’t think so. They acted as dogs, exactly that what they are. It is possible that the dogs always have been very friendly towards the child, as long as the owner was around to control the situation and there was no food around. It is also possible that, as long as the owner was around, the dogs were under control, but were not really trustable, due to under-socialization with children. In that case, there must have been signals already, which went unnoticed by the owner.

One thing is certain, after having been brought home the child had returned to the house of the dogs with or without chicken, but definitely carrying the smell of it, without noticing anybody. And she was capable to enter the dogs' territory alone.

Further I would like to refer to the thread: Dog Bite Prevention –some basics- :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=77131

[Nawtilus]

Well, allowing a child to go alone with 3 pig dogs around the house.

I think the blame is not just on the dogs, the fool allowing the dogs to be free for a start and then even keeping them in a house that has children or is frequented by them is as reckless as anything.

This happens often enough and is publicised enough in Oz for there to be no real excuse for it to happen like this with 3, yes 3 of these viscious dogs.

And this comes from someone who has had one and has known people with them and has worked with them and hunted with them.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, mine got ran over by a bulldozer as a youngster. Goes to show they are not the brightest dogs around.

[pukkagent]

That's so sad! On a dog-related topic, my puppy was stolen two nights ago, along with three other puppies. I leave the dog to breast feed with his mum with the rearers, but they leave the dogs all on the beach, and someones gone in the night and taken them, because he'd not have gone off on his own. Can't believe someone nicked my puppy! Am gutted. He was like my little baby, even though I'd only had him a few months, but i know the birth mother of the dog, so he was still in her tummy when I knew him!

Beach dogs are never a good idea, because you're taking them from that freedom in the first place, but he was so sweet! The state I see dogs in, roaming around with half their fur off. I'm not saying people in Thailand don't take care of their dogs, but I see a lot more of them around in packs, than I do in any part of england, and the states that i see them in - even as a full grown adult, I think you have to be wary of these dogs. It doesn't bare thinking about, but I never really understood this until now:

don't get a puppy unless you can see it's birth mother. Who's to say he's not been stolen from his mother or family, and i think it breeds a nervous and unhappy dog. To think he might end up roaming around when he's not cute enough if he goes to a family who don't take proper care of him really upsets me!

gosh I should be in bed. It's like 3:44am and I can't sleep

[udon]

Well, allowing a child to go alone with 3 pig dogs around the house.

I think the blame is not just on the dogs, the fool allowing the dogs to be free for a start and then even keeping them in a house that has children or is frequented by them is as reckless as anything.

This happens often enough and is publicised enough in Oz for there to be no real excuse for it to happen like this with 3, yes 3 of these viscious dogs.

And this comes from someone who has had one and has known people with them and has worked with them and hunted with them.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, mine got ran over by a bulldozer as a youngster. Goes to show they are not the brightest dogs around.

The dogs were in their enclosure.

The child climbed into their enclosure.

[h90]

this is of course a sad story, but I think a thousand times more children die from cars and noone starts car bashing....

Or I think there are even a lot more cases of child sex abuse, so must also tell: Never let a child alone with a man.

and giving such idiotic tips.

A few tips: by Mary M. Alward

* Never leave a child alone with a dog, no matter how well they get along. This puts the dog in a position of authority. He feels he is in the position of alpha dog when he's with children. This also goes for female dogs.

over 1000s of years children are alone with dogs, in normal cases, they dog either stay happy or try to protect the child (can be pretty stupid if the dog does not let anyone come near the child). If beeing the alpha dog it does not kill the child it bites the child softly, to just hurt it a little bit to make it follow.

* Do not let young children walk a dog or play rough with the family canine.

why not???

* Never allow your children to approach or pet a strange dog even if the owner is present. This is asking for trouble. No matter how docile the dog is, he may not want a child sticking his fingers in his ears, poking his eyes or pulling his tail.

of course if you and the owner is present you not let the child stick the finger in the dogs ear and so on. Children should be theached from beginning how to interact with animals. If not they get afraid of every bigger animal like the Thais inside the city. Than because the are afraid the behalf wrong.

* Do not allow children to go near your dog if he/she is eating or sleeping. Startling a sleeping dog can invite an attack and dogs, including my own, are very protective of their food.

of course only under supervision. The dogs owner must be able to take the doogs food away while the dog is eating. The owner is the alpha dog and so the owner has the right to eat first. But maybe not something you should exercise with a small child.

* Never approach a dog that is tied on a chain. My dog, Meeko, is a gentle giant, but when he is tied in the yard, he is very protective of the property. When he's on his leash, he befriends everyone.

dogs should never be tied on a short chain, NEVER

* Don't horse around in fron of your dog/s.

Signs of Danger

Dogs tell us of impending danger with their body language. If you see the following signs, use extreme caution.

* Backward leaning posture.

* Teeth bared or the mouth shut tight.

* Tail lowered.

* Ears flat against the dog's head.

* Hackles raised.

If a dog approaches you and you feel you are in danger, there are tips that should be followed.

* Stand tall, stand still and don't move. Never run. When you run, this initiates the "hunt instinct." The dog will chase you.

leave the dogs area slowly

* Always face the dog at a slight angle.

Do not make eye contact, use your peripheral vision.

Attacks most often occur from behind.

you can face thai dogs straight and direct, they get afraid, but wouldn't try that with a german shepard.

* Never try to make friends with the dog.

speaking slowly with the dog often make it friendly and solves the problem easily (not apply to Thai dogs)

* Allow the dog to sniff you, but never extend your hand.

* If you are knocked down by the dog, roll into a fetal position and cover your head with your arms and hands. Be sure to protect your throat. Remember, you only do this if you are knocked down. Never put yourself on the ground.

try to get over the dog, if possible hit its nose, try to get its neck. hiting any other parts of the dog is useless. If there is water jump in the water. at 30-40 cm water the dog is already pretty helpless.

Teach your children these rules as soon as they are old enough to understand. Many dog bites are avoidable and we need to educate ourselves in order to avoid attack.

yes educate but not with that bs. don't make children fear dogs

Any more tips?

[sbk]

Not sure why you think teaching children safety is idiotic.

Don't most people teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the road? Or is that idiotic too?

[udon]

this is of course a sad story, but I think a thousand times more children die from cars and noone starts car bashing....

Or I think there are even a lot more cases of child sex abuse, so must also tell: Never let a child alone with a man.

and giving such idiotic tips.

You've lost the plot, H90.

This is the pets forum and the story is about small children, dogs and safety.

Nothing to do with Paedos, traffic accidents or safety in the bathroom, ok?

[h90]

Not sure why you think teaching children safety is idiotic.

Don't most people teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the road? Or is that idiotic too?

where did you read that I wrote teaching children safety is idiotic???

Most of my posting is about teaching children safety.....

[h90]

this is of course a sad story, but I think a thousand times more children die from cars and noone starts car bashing....

Or I think there are even a lot more cases of child sex abuse, so must also tell: Never let a child alone with a man.

and giving such idiotic tips.

You've lost the plot, H90.

This is the pets forum and the story is about small children, dogs and safety.

Nothing to do with Paedos, traffic accidents or safety in the bathroom, ok?

yes I lost the plot a little bit!

I meant we should not overreact, and thinking dogs are evil animals which are waiting behind every corner to eat our children.

[Nawtilus]

Your right, just the pig dogs taught to chase and kill.

[sbk]

Not sure why you think teaching children safety is idiotic.

Don't most people teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the road? Or is that idiotic too?

where did you read that I wrote teaching children safety is idiotic???

Most of my posting is about teaching children safety.....

idiotic tips.

is I believe the phrase you used.

ANYWAY No one here is advocating teaching your child to be afraid of dogs but rather respect them and how dogs perceive that respect. The fact of the matter is that most bites from dogs are directed at children because they don't know how to behave properly with a dog.

[steveromagnino]

The fact of the matter is that most bites from dogs are directed at children because they don't know how to behave properly with a dog.

And mostly because little kids are a pain in the butt

If I were a dog I'd bite them too. I know as an 'uman I bite them and chase them. Especially dem 20 year old kids.....

Some sound instructions for doggies and kiddies; I spent the weekend with some little kids and my cat plus 3 dogs. All 4 animals were wandering around eachother (cat and dog weren't too happy to be sharing a house) but they were terrorised by the little kiddies, who were yelling in their ears, chasing them around and generally noisy.

Without parents around, I am sure the animals would have eventually cracked and either bit, scratched or somehow hurt them.

[h90]

Not sure why you think teaching children safety is idiotic.

Don't most people teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the road? Or is that idiotic too?

where did you read that I wrote teaching children safety is idiotic???

Most of my posting is about teaching children safety.....

idiotic tips.

is I believe the phrase you used.

ANYWAY No one here is advocating teaching your child to be afraid of dogs but rather respect them and how dogs perceive that respect. The fact of the matter is that most bites from dogs are directed at children because they don't know how to behave properly with a dog.

Yes I still think that the tips given in the original post are idiotic. Sorry if I am unclear due to lack of english. My post was meant on how to theach them to stay happy with dogs while the original just told how dangerous dogs are and how much you should sepperate children and dogs from each other and I think thats absolut the wrong way (in case normal dogs and normal children). A child can only get a feeling for if a dog is dangerous or not if he/she knows something about it.

Specially in Thailand even adults thread dogs a way a normal european dog might bite them (not kill them), as I would bite them if I would be a dog. One year ago one of my staff tried to knock a soi dog with a beer bottle on its head for fun (with some power). As the dog tried to bite him he let the beer bottle fall, so good lesson and nothing else happend. But knock a doberman or a german shepard with a beer bottle on its head.

Where I come from most children grow up with dogs, noone get that sadistic idea to knock a dog for fun. To sepparate children and dogs is a dangerous wrong way.

That is what I wanted to tell.

[h90]

I remind, when I was a little child my grandparents had small dog (actually a hunting dog for fox, don't know the english name, but pretty small but long) 14 or 15 years old. It hate me, because it only wanted fredom and not playing with me.

Once at Santa Clause the black men came to make children afraid (don't know if that exist in every country) the old (15 years) got furrious ready to fight 4 hugh people and most probably die for me.

My grandpa cleared the case, the dog went to one of them pee on his leg, went in front of me, showed its theeth (or what was left of it) and protected me till they left.

That is the normal case. The dog is protecting the group even the members it does not like.

the other case are either crazy breeds (inbreeding) for fighting or complete wrong theaching and just a minority is unexpectable. Than the bashing starts. An owner who sell heroin has rotweiler (he took the most crazy he could get) and it bites a child than some tell rotweiler are so evil in fact the are very good dogs for children.

The fact of the matter is that most bites from dogs are directed at children because they don't know how to behave properly with a dog.

And mostly because little kids are a pain in the butt

If I were a dog I'd bite them too. I know as an 'uman I bite them and chase them. Especially dem 20 year old kids.....

Some sound instructions for doggies and kiddies; I spent the weekend with some little kids and my cat plus 3 dogs. All 4 animals were wandering around eachother (cat and dog weren't too happy to be sharing a house) but they were terrorised by the little kiddies, who were yelling in their ears, chasing them around and generally noisy.

Without parents around, I am sure the animals would have eventually cracked and either bit, scratched or somehow hurt them.

[udon]

I'll let the reader decide which tips are idiotic.