First Ebola case diagnosed on US soil

[MJP]

Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola

Two national experts on infectious disease transmission Professor Dr Brosseau and Assistant Professor Dr Jones in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago report that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosols … i.e. fluids mixed with air. They both said we believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients. This means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola

Aerosols is how Ebola is airborne.

[JDGRUEN]

Firestone Did What Governments Have Not: Stopped Ebola In Its Tracks

80,000 workers and family - work and live in the 185 square mile Firestone Rubber Plantation in Liberia... Firestone's Managing Director Ed Garcia formed a isolation ward treated Ebola patients from nearby towns... They devised their own methods - used Hazmat suits meant for industrial use... used quarantine and isolation... used common sense. Many people were treated - most died - but Ebola did not make it into the 80,000 workers and family members...

I want this man to run the CDC... because he is compassionate but doesn't suffer from Political Correctness.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/10/06/354054915/firestone-did-what-governments-have-not-stopped-ebola-in-its-tracks

[F430murci]

erm who to rely on ? .F430murcis many doctor friends, clients and neighbors in Nashville (headquarters for most large medical companies) " who tell us there is concern, but no alarm." versus the guy who actually discovered this virus ?

'In 1976 I discovered Ebola - now I fear an unimaginable tragedy'

"In 1976 I discovered Ebola - now I fear an unimaginable tragedy" - Peter Piot was a researcher at a lab in Antwerp when a pilot brought him a blood sample from a Belgian nun who had fallen mysteriously ill in Zaire. Now, the Director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine warns, "around June it became clear to me there was something different about this outbreak. I began to get really worried."

http://www.theguardi...r-piot-outbreak

Edited by F430murci, 2014-10-05 16:01:44.

[F430murci]

Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola

Two national experts on infectious disease transmission Professor Dr Brosseau and Assistant Professor Dr Jones in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago report that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosols i.e. fluids mixed with air. They both said we believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients. This means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola

Aerosols is how Ebola is airborne.

Still only a hypothesis, the article acknowledges and does not independent analysis or verification and simply makes the recommendation to use respirators in stead if mask in health care setting. I also think respirators are warranted to keep health care workers just in case. Still no evidence that the current strain is airborne.

Dr. Piot, who Asiantravler dude was so happy to post said this about current strain being air borne.

--------

Could the virus suddenly change itself such that it could be spread through the air?

Like measles, you mean? Luckily that is extremely unlikely. But a mutation that would allow Ebola patients to live a couple of weeks longer is certainly possible and would be advantageous for the virus. But that would allow Ebola patients to infect many, many more people than is currently the case.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/04/ebola-zaire-peter-piot-outbreak?CMP=twt_gu

[Credo]

Firestone Did What Governments Have Not: Stopped Ebola In Its Tracks

80,000 workers and family - work and live in the 185 square mile Firestone Rubber Plantation in Liberia... Firestone's Managing Director Ed Garcia formed a isolation ward treated Ebola patients from nearby towns... They devised their own methods - used Hazmat suits meant for industrial use... used quarantine and isolation... used common sense. Many people were treated - most died - but Ebola did not make it into the 80,000 workers and family members...

I want this man to run the CDC... because he is compassionate but doesn't suffer from Political Correctness.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/10/06/354054915/firestone-did-what-governments-have-not-stopped-ebola-in-its-tracks

You want the head of Firestone to run the CDC and we are supposed to believe that you have an advanced degree in a medical field?

Running a factory and a 185 sq. mile plantation with 80,000 workers (and family members) is a little different that a country, with laws and rights. Do you think the head of the CDC can quarantine a state? Stop flights? Put a nation under curfew?

I think you are talking about some type of military dictatorship and I doubt that even they would do it effectively.

[F430murci]

Dr. Schaffner's discussion and explanation as to why Ebola is not air borne.

----------

First, to spread from person to person by air, the virus would have to be capable of infecting the epithelial cells lining the throat, windpipe, or lungs. Viruses have surface proteins that can interact with receptors on host cells. Think of it as a lock and key: if they match up, the "door" opens, and the virus gets in. This protein-receptor relationship is very specific, so viruses cannot infect any old cell, they can only infect cells that have "locks" that match their "keys." Once inside the host cell, the virus takes over the cell's machinery to replicate (viruses cannot replicate on their own, they need a host cell). The fact that not all cell interiors are identical represents another challenge to a target-cell-switching virus.

The epithelial cells of the upper respiratory system lack a receptor that can be used by Ebola to sneak in, and therefore are very good at keeping Ebola out. So, even if someone were to inhale an Ebola virus, it would have no target cell in the throat to invade, hijack, and replicate in. That means it would be very unlikely to spread to a third person--the second condition Ebola would have to meet in order to spread by air. In other words, Ebola is very good at getting into immune system cells...respiratory cells? Not so much.

http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2014/09/can-ebola-go-airborne.html

[F430murci]

More from the good doctor about mutations since it is not currently air borne.

----------

Dr. Shaffner goes on to explain, viruses very rarely develop the mutations to switch host cells, and so far, Ebola and its close viral relatives, have shown no indication that they are mutating in that way. And Ebola expert Dr. Thomas Geisbert explains that while the risk for Ebola to accumulate a series of mutations that would allow it to spread by air is "probably not zero," there is, in fact, no evolutionary selective pressure on it to do so.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5922362

[JDGRUEN]

Firestone Did What Governments Have Not: Stopped Ebola In Its Tracks

80,000 workers and family - work and live in the 185 square mile Firestone Rubber Plantation in Liberia... Firestone's Managing Director Ed Garcia formed a isolation ward treated Ebola patients from nearby towns... They devised their own methods - used Hazmat suits meant for industrial use... used quarantine and isolation... used common sense. Many people were treated - most died - but Ebola did not make it into the 80,000 workers and family members...

I want this man to run the CDC... because he is compassionate but doesn't suffer from Political Correctness.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/10/06/354054915/firestone-did-what-governments-have-not-stopped-ebola-in-its-tracks

You want the head of Firestone to run the CDC and we are supposed to believe that you have an advanced degree in a medical field?

Running a factory and a 185 sq. mile plantation with 80,000 workers (and family members) is a little different that a country, with laws and rights. Do you think the head of the CDC can quarantine a state? Stop flights? Put a nation under curfew?

I think you are talking about some type of military dictatorship and I doubt that even they would do it effectively.

Wow! You are a something else... Most people would have understood ... that I meant a man / or woman of his common sense mentality. Demonstrated in miniature ... people who come into the compound go into isolation - not allowed to mingle with the 80,000 people inside and it works - no disease transmission- very demonstrative. ... Your over done response tells a lot about you...

[F430murci]

. . . and a CNBC interview with my neighbor and his explanation as to why Ebola won't spread in the US. He also discusses how Ebola is spread.

---------

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000316305

[zydeco]

I'm getting where I can't trust any of these officials. Frieden, the CDC head man was being interviewed by Anderson Cooper. Cooper asked him about the woman in the Ebola apartment, was she in danger after living with the Ebola man's sheets, pillows, eating utensils and other items until she bagged the items herself? The response? Frieden simply ignored the question and said once items are bagged, people should be safe. The same thing went on during the earlier press conference. When asked about banning flights and or people FROM West Africa, Frieden said it was impractical and counterproductive because it would keep supplies and aid workers from going INTO West Africa. And saying it all with that stupid smirk on his face.

[JDGRUEN]

It occurs to be from reading posts on this topic thread that some posters - even some who are Americans think it is Okay... to have Government policies that have caused American citizens to be exposed to Ebola by a foreign national who was allow to enter the U.S. coming from a known Ebola Hot Spot - because they claim that an Ebola outbreak would not occur and/or if it did it could easily be contained. I find this attitude totally empty headed...

Foreign nationals from many places are denied a visa to visit America - denied entry. Yet some how those from Ebola epidemic Hot Spot Countries are not to be told NO! Cannot be told - No you cannot visit your family. It happens everyday to people who do not come from West African Countries.

Americans don't want to even be exposed to Ebola and have even a small chance of catching the disease. Because even the exposure is Not Necessary. Liberians and other West Africans do not have a right to demand they be allowed entry into the USA. And the U.S. Government has no obligation to allow them. Americans want the Ebola virus kept away from America - because there is no reason to have to be exposed to it at all - regardless if it can be controlled or contained. It doesn't matter whether some think an Ebola outbreak cannot happen or if it did it can be controlled. We don't want it inside our country. And if people in other countries have their feelings hurt because they can't visit America --- well too damned bad. The health and welfare of American people comes before the wants and desires of other nationalities who want to visit.

People from West African Nations can be told that visiting America in the near future will require a complete certified medical examination, they can be told that they may have to opt for a 35 day quarantine in isolation if they really want to pursue coming to America. They can be told NO!

I have a friend here in Thailand named Carl ... he and his Thai wife have a Thai woman friend who applied to the American Embassy in Bangkok to get a Visa to go to America to present her PhD Dissertation. She was denied - only a few weeks ago... She has not been exposed to a deadly disease. Ebola nor anything like is are not endemic to Thailand. She likely was denied because bureaucrats in our State Department firmly believe that Thai women and other Asian women only want to go to America to find a husband and may overstay her visa. This has happened many times Thai women. And for this one Thai lady no one cared if her feeling were hurt.

Liberians are allowed to come to America even though statistics show that about half will overstay their visa. I would bet good money that half of the 13,000 Liberians in Dallas (who knew) are visa overstayers... Mr. Duncan quit his job, lied on a Liberian Immigration form, is poorly educated, offers next to nothing of value to America but is granted a visa... while a Thai women is denied a visa to go to America to present her PhD Dissertation... That's what we have folks - a dysfunctional government.

Bottom Line is - it does not matter if Ebola will take hold in America or not... it does not matter is Ebola can be treated in America and people will survive it... We do not want to be even exposed - because it is not necessary ... it can be stopped and could have - should have been stopped months ago... And Americans have a right to demand it.

But we have bleeding heart people with no brains making decisions. Making decisions counter to the health and welfare of Americans.

I will direct bleeding heart TVF members to the Immigration Forum here... you will notice post after post telling stories of how Brits are denied visas for their Thai wife to visit the husband's home country in the U.K. The stories are many. No one cares about their feelings... But somehow America cannot tell West Africans that they cannot be told that they cannot have a visa to visit America...

Many of us Americans do know ILLOGICAL policies when we be see them... And their is no logic supporting the U.S. Government's stance on continuing to allow people from West African Countries to enter America... Had such a policy been in place even a month ago ... Mr. Duncan would have never been diagnosed with Ebola in Dallas, Texas.

[JDGRUEN]

The debate over whether the Ebola Virus can be transmitted by airborne particles is pointless.

Note: Airborne is defined as being small particle size and light enough weight to be expelled from a patient and float around in the air while still carrying a sizable virus load. If the Ebola Virus did mutate to allow airborne transmission it would be a very bad thing...

But it does not have to be capable of airborne transmission -- because the others methods of transferring the virus are plenty good enough right now to cause a serious epidemic. Just look at West Africa - thousands of Ebola patients and half or more are dying...

So right now we have these methods of transfer: vomitious, diarrhea fluids, saliva/spit, mucous, phlegm, sweat, semen... Let's see..

- Sudden projectile vomiting - train, bus, plane, classroom, mall escalator, office elevator, and a thousand other places - you may be right in the path...

- Uncontrollable diarrhea- (often quite liquid) train, bus, plane, classroom, mall escalator, public restroom, taxi seat, restaurant seat, and a thousand other places. And you came right after him ... sat down on the commode seat, touched this - touched that.. any object ... a fomite

- Energetic Sneezing or Coughing: Expelling droplets of saliva, or nasal mucous, or globs or globlets of phlegm

- Sweating: mostly likely a family member who handles the fever sweat clothing of the Ebola Victim

- Semen: Fairly self-explanatory.

So - if we have people in America with Ebola for which they have not sought treatment... they are in supermarkets, malls, riding taxis or a bus, in clinic waiting rooms, trying on clothes at a department store ... AND all of a sudden they going into a violent episode of vomiting - vomiting wildly as the Duncan family said... Or the Ebola victim has diarrhea in a public restroom and your next ... did he get it on the sink edge when he washed his hands or on the faucet handle, or the towel dispenser? Or you just standing in the supermarket checkout line and this guy turns and coughs or sneezes very hard - spraying globs - big and small - some so small you cannot see ... all over your clothes, your hands, arms, face, and not seen on your shoes that you take off later.

Fomites: Inanimate objects that get touched by the flying droplets and globlets of mucous - a door knob, a commode handle, a taxi door handle, a bus rail.

Get The Picture ? The Ebola Virus does not have to be airborne capable to reek havoc - to cause disease... to kill people...

Arguing about whether the Ebola Virus is airborne capable is a pointless diversion from the issues at hand and a waste of time.

Edited October 7, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Asiantravel]

erm who to rely on ? .F430murcis many doctor friends, clients and neighbors in Nashville (headquarters for most large medical companies) " who tell us there is concern, but no alarm." versus the guy who actually discovered this virus ?

'In 1976 I discovered Ebola - now I fear an unimaginable tragedy'

"In 1976 I discovered Ebola - now I fear an unimaginable tragedy" - Peter Piot was a researcher at a lab in Antwerp when a pilot brought him a blood sample from a Belgian nun who had fallen mysteriously ill in Zaire. Now, the Director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine warns, "around June it became clear to me there was something different about this outbreak. I began to get really worried."

http://www.theguardi...r-piot-outbreak

Edited by F430murci, 2014-10-05 16:01:44.

I will ask you the same question you asked me in post # 97.- is it ignorance or just dishonesty with you?

If you are a lawyer I refuse to believe you don't at least have the ability to carry out a simple Google search to find out the difference between aerosols (or droplets) and airborne transmission and to then understand the difference between the two . For heavens sake, it's even on the CDC website.

So I think you are just being completely disingenuous by implying any one has even suggested it is airborne.

Droplet Transmission

Droplet transmission, theoretically, is a form of contact transmission. However, the mechanism of transfer of the pathogen to the host is quite distinct from either direct- or indirect-contact transmission. Therefore, droplet transmission is considered a separate route of transmission in this guideline. Droplets are generated from the source person primarily during coughing, sneezing, and talking, and during the performance of certain procedures such as suctioning and bronchoscopy. Transmission occurs when droplets containing microorganisms generated from the infected person are propelled a short distance through the air and deposited on the host's conjunctivae, nasal mucosa, or mouth. Because droplets do not remain suspended in the air, special air handling and ventilation are not required to prevent droplet transmission; that is, droplet transmission must not be confused with airborne transmission.

Airborne Transmission

Airborne transmission occurs by dissemination of either airborne droplet nuclei (small-particle residue [5 µm or smaller] of evaporated droplets containing microorganisms that remain suspended in the air for long periods) or dust particles containing the infectious agent. Microorganisms carried in this manner can be dispersed widely by air currents, and may be inhaled by a susceptible host within the same room or over a longer distance from the source patient, depending on environmental factors; therefore, special air handling and ventilation are required to prevent airborne transmission. Microorganisms transmitted by airborne transmission include Mycobacterium tuberculosis and the measles and varicella viruses.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Asiantravel

[JDGRUEN]

I'm getting where I can't trust any of these officials. Frieden, the CDC head man was being interviewed by Anderson Cooper. Cooper asked him about the woman in the Ebola apartment, was she in danger after living with the Ebola man's sheets, pillows, eating utensils and other items until she bagged the items herself? The response? Frieden simply ignored the question and said once items are bagged, people should be safe. The same thing went on during the earlier press conference. When asked about banning flights and or people FROM West Africa, Frieden said it was impractical and counterproductive because it would keep supplies and aid workers from going INTO West Africa. And saying it all with that stupid smirk on his face.

Typical response ... ignore the obvious question and make a half answer. And what people are talking about when stopping air traffic FROM the Ebola Hot Spots does not have a thing to do with people from America or around the world going to the Ebola Hot Spots as Aid Workers... A silly red herring - total BS... And what is really meant is not stopping air traffic per se... but stopping Ebola Hot PEOPLE from taking any air route via Europe or elsewhere to take a circuitous route to America ... WE WANT THEIR VISAS DENIED... Maybe offer a 35 day quarantine / isolation if there is a PRESSING NEED for someone from a West African Country to go to America..

Typical Liberal Leftist - expand the issue and talk about something that is not really being ask or in play...

What does Aids workers able to go to West Africa have to do with West African People trying to go to America?

The answer is IT DOESN'T and the CDC guy knows it ... but the reporter was not smart enough to figure that out.

How can that guy flip the situation around like that and keep a straight face.. LYING - TRUTH TWISTING JERK

[Asiantravel]

I'm getting where I can't trust any of these officials. Frieden, the CDC head man was being interviewed by Anderson Cooper. Cooper asked him about the woman in the Ebola apartment, was she in danger after living with the Ebola man's sheets, pillows, eating utensils and other items until she bagged the items herself? The response? Frieden simply ignored the question and said once items are bagged, people should be safe. The same thing went on during the earlier press conference. When asked about banning flights and or people FROM West Africa, Frieden said it was impractical and counterproductive because it would keep supplies and aid workers from going INTO West Africa. And saying it all with that stupid smirk on his face.

Typical response ... ignore the obvious question and make a half answer. And what people are talking about when stopping air traffic FROM the Ebola Hot Spots does not have a thing to do with people from America or around the world going to the Ebola Hot Spots as Aid Workers... A silly red herring - total BS... And what is really meant is not stopping air traffic per se... but stopping Ebola Hot PEOPLE from taking any air route via Europe or elsewhere to take a circuitous route to America ... WE WANT THEIR VISAS DENIED... Maybe offer a 35 day quarantine / isolation if there is a PRESSING NEED for someone from a West African Country to go to America..

Typical Liberal Leftist - expand the issue and talk about something that is not really being ask or in play...

What does Aids workers able to go to West Africa have to do with West African People trying to go to America?

The answer is IT DOESN'T and the CDC guy knows it ... but the reporter was not smart enough to figure that out.

How can that guy flip the situation around like that and keep a straight face.. LYING - TRUTH TWISTING JERK

He didn't get the opportunity to be so evasive with Congressman Tim Murphy

The director of one of the world's most prestigious public health agencies went before Congress on Wednesday to try to explain laboratory blunders that included his scientists mishandling live anthrax and unknowingly contaminating other specimens with a dangerous strain of bird flu.

Rep. Tim Murphy, R-Pa., chairman of an oversight committee of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, said lab safety issues appear to be systemic at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Murphy, citing numerous reports issued by government watchdogs over the years, called the most recent incident "sloppy" and "inexcusable."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/16/congress-hearing-cdc-lab-safety-anthrax-incident/12721585/

[JDGRUEN]

What I am hoping for is that the U.S. Senate majority is taken away from obama and the Democrats in the November Elections... Then as soon as possible pass legislation with requirements stopping the issuance of visas to people from Ebola Hot Spot Countries... Get House and Senate full approval by vote and then place it in a piece of legislation that will be next to impossible for obama to veto...

They should do that will just about everything that needs to corrected - put the 'resident in chief in a big pickle.

[F430murci]

JD:

My preference is to shut down the borders to those from West Africa. As I previously stated, the risk of harm posed by these losers outweighs any benefit they provide. They should have a tougher time getting Visas than Eastern Europeans or Asians from a purely economic perspective. Add the Ebola problem due to their nasty, unsanitary mode of living and I really see no reason to allow them access

RE: Aurborne/Areosole/formites

Everyone is basing their areosole/formite/airborne concerns on the observation of a couple of monkeys segregated in a lab contracting Ebola. That was not a controlled study and supports a hypothesis only, but their are several other explanations for the spread that have never been ruled out.

Asiatravel:

I cited a scientific explanation that no doctor has refuted as to why Ebola cannot be disseminated from person to person through the air. Dr. Schaffner dispenses with the areosole v. airborne confusion by addressing it as a respiratory receptor issue

"The epithelial cells of the upper respiratory system lack a receptor that can be used by Ebola to sneak in, and therefore are very good at keeping Ebola out. So, even if someone were to inhale an Ebola virus, it would have no target cell in the throat to invade, hijack, and replicate in."

"the virus would have to develop attachments that would allow it to easily attach receptors in the upper respiratory pathwaysomething that neither it (nor any of its viral cousins) has been known to do in the wild."

JD:

Again, I agree that Ebola is very dangerous even if it does not mutate and become capable of air transmission. I am in the "why take the chance" category and would not knowingly go near anyone that was recently exposed, symptomatic or asymptomatic.

I, however, believe Dr. Schaffner's explanation as to why Ebola will not spread in US as discussed in his CNBC interview I linked above.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000316305

----------

So Really, How Do You Get Ebola? Coming Days Are Critical

Some people have expressed worry that Texas state officials walked unprotected into an apartment where Duncan stayed when he was sick. But there is no evidence at all the virus could be suspended in the air somehow, or even on the walls or floors.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/so-really-how-do-you-get-ebola-coming-days-are-n219666

Edited October 7, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

What I am hoping for is that the U.S. Senate majority is taken away from obama and the Democrats in the November Elections... Then as soon as possible pass legislation with requirements stopping the issuance of visas to people from Ebola Hot Spot Countries... Get House and Senate full approval by vote and then place it in a piece of legislation that will be next to impossible for obama to veto...

They should do that will just about everything that needs to corrected - put the 'resident in chief in a big pickle.

Sad that you find levity in and enjoy using suffering of others to fuel your vitriolic attitude toward the West. Speaks volumes.

Meanwhile, Thomas Duncan receiving new experimental drug. At leaat they can use this loser that placed other in harms way as a human guinea pig for an untested and unproven drug.

----------

Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person diagnosed in the United States with Ebola, remains in critical condition, but is now receiving an experimental drug, hospital officials say.

The drug is brincidofovir, a broad-spectrum antiviral that has shown promise against Ebola in test tubes and is now being tested in animals, according to a statement from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, where Duncan is being treated. It has not been tested against Ebola in humans.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/06/thomas-eric-duncan-ebola-patient-dallas-hospital/16798391/

Edited October 7, 2014 by F430murci

[Asiantravel]

RE: Aurborne/Areosole/formites

Everyone is basing their areosole/formite/airborne concerns on the observation of a couple of monkeys segregated in a lab contracting Ebola. That was not a controlled study and supports a hypothesis only, but their are several other explanations for the spread that have never been ruled out.

Asiatravel:

I cited a scientific explanation that no doctor has refuted as to why Ebola cannot be disseminated from person to person through the air. Dr. Schaffner dispenses with the areosole v. airborne confusion by addressing it as a respiratory receptor issue

"The epithelial cells of the upper respiratory system lack a receptor that can be used by Ebola to sneak in, and therefore are very good at keeping Ebola out. So, even if someone were to inhale an Ebola virus, it would have no target cell in the throat to invade, hijack, and replicate in."

"the virus would have to develop attachments that would allow it to easily attach receptors in the upper respiratory pathwaysomething that neither it (nor any of its viral cousins) has been known to do in the wild."

I, however, believe Dr. Schaffner's explanation as to why Ebola will not spread in US as discussed in his CNBC interview I linked above.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000316305

----------

So Really, How Do You Get Ebola? Coming Days Are Critical

Some people have expressed worry that Texas state officials walked unprotected into an apartment where Duncan stayed when he was sick. But there is no evidence at all the virus could be suspended in the air somehow, or even on the walls or floors.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/so-really-how-do-you-get-ebola-coming-days-are-n219666

But there is nothing at all unusual about scientists vehemently disagreeing with each other as in this case and it's impossible for you or I to know who is correct, or who is the most qualified.

Just because your neighbour has said these things doesn't make him any more of an authority than those who have said the direct opposite such as David Sanders at Purdue University

The story’s author explains in some technical detail why it’s next to impossible for the virus to get into cells in the airway, quoting Vanderbilt University infectious disease expert William Schaffner, who said the virus isn’t equipped to attach to receptors in the cells that line our airways.

But Dr. Schaffner does not do research in this area. Biologist David Sanders at Purdue University does. In fact, Sanders conducts experiments with modified Ebola viruses and tissue cultures and he said he has seen direct evidence that Ebola does have the capacity to attach to receptors in the so-called epithelial cells in human lungs. “Saying that Ebola can’t get into the airway because it can’t find the receptors is patently wrong,” he said. “We know Ebola has the correct interactions with the receptors so the sort of argument they are making is fallacious.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fayeflam/2014/10/03/out-of-control-but-nothing-to-worry-about-behind-the-mixed-signals-on-ebola-outbreak/the

[Asiantravel]

What I am hoping for is that the U.S. Senate majority is taken away from obama and the Democrats in the November Elections... Then as soon as possible pass legislation with requirements stopping the issuance of visas to people from Ebola Hot Spot Countries... Get House and Senate full approval by vote and then place it in a piece of legislation that will be next to impossible for obama to veto...

They should do that will just about everything that needs to corrected - put the 'resident in chief in a big pickle.

Sad that you find levity in and enjoy using suffering of others to fuel your vitriolic attitude toward the West. Speaks volumes.

Meanwhile, Thomas Duncan receiving new experimental drug. At leaat they can use this loser that placed other in harms way as a human guinea pig for an untested and unproven drug.

----------

Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person diagnosed in the United States with Ebola, remains in critical condition, but is now receiving an experimental drug, hospital officials say.

The drug is brincidofovir, a broad-spectrum antiviral that has shown promise against Ebola in test tubes and is now being tested in animals, according to a statement from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, where Duncan is being treated. It has not been tested against Ebola in humans.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/06/thomas-eric-duncan-ebola-patient-dallas-hospital/16798391/

" Sad that you find levity in and enjoy using suffering of others to fuel your vitriolic attitude toward the West. Speaks volumes. "

If you regard posting that picture as being vitriolic, boy you should see some of the comments written by your fellow Americans that accompany that picture

[F430murci]

RE: Aurborne/Areosole/formites

Everyone is basing their areosole/formite/airborne concerns on the observation of a couple of monkeys segregated in a lab contracting Ebola. That was not a controlled study and supports a hypothesis only, but their are several other explanations for the spread that have never been ruled out.

Asiatravel:

I cited a scientific explanation that no doctor has refuted as to why Ebola cannot be disseminated from person to person through the air. Dr. Schaffner dispenses with the areosole v. airborne confusion by addressing it as a respiratory receptor issue

"The epithelial cells of the upper respiratory system lack a receptor that can be used by Ebola to sneak in, and therefore are very good at keeping Ebola out. So, even if someone were to inhale an Ebola virus, it would have no target cell in the throat to invade, hijack, and replicate in."

"the virus would have to develop attachments that would allow it to easily attach receptors in the upper respiratory pathwaysomething that neither it (nor any of its viral cousins) has been known to do in the wild."

I, however, believe Dr. Schaffner's explanation as to why Ebola will not spread in US as discussed in his CNBC interview I linked above.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000316305

----------

So Really, How Do You Get Ebola? Coming Days Are Critical

Some people have expressed worry that Texas state officials walked unprotected into an apartment where Duncan stayed when he was sick. But there is no evidence at all the virus could be suspended in the air somehow, or even on the walls or floors.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/so-really-how-do-you-get-ebola-coming-days-are-n219666

But there is nothing at all unusual about scientists vehemently disagreeing with each other as in this case and it's impossible for you or I to know who is correct, or who is the most qualified.

Just because your neighbour has said these things doesn't make him any more of an authority than those who have said the direct opposite such as David Sanders at Purdue University

The storys author explains in some technical detail why its next to impossible for the virus to get into cells in the airway, quoting Vanderbilt University infectious disease expert William Schaffner, who said the virus isnt equipped to attach to receptors in the cells that line our airways.

But Dr. Schaffner does not do research in this area. Biologist David Sanders at Purdue University does. In fact, Sanders conducts experiments with modified Ebola viruses and tissue cultures and he said he has seen direct evidence that Ebola does have the capacity to attach to receptors in the so-called epithelial cells in human lungs. Saying that Ebola cant get into the airway because it cant find the receptors is patently wrong, he said. We know Ebola has the correct interactions with the receptors so the sort of argument they are making is fallacious.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fayeflam/2014/10/03/out-of-control-but-nothing-to-worry-about-behind-the-mixed-signals-on-ebola-outbreak/the

Curious as to why you want so bad for this to be air borne and catastrophic? Same reason you hooe US suffers an economic collapse? Rhetorical question, but again speaks volumes and requires an inward examination to truly be answered.

Sanders still speaking in terms of hypothetical, says not currently air borne, unlikely it will mutate and become air borne, but risk is not zero.

-----------

Sanders states:

That doesnt mean its likely to evolve the capacity to become airborne, he said, but the possibility is not vanishingly small as it is for HIV. How unlikely? Not enough is known to put a number on it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fayeflam/2014/10/03/out-of-control-but-nothing-to-worry-about-behind-the-mixed-signals-on-ebola-outbreak/

[JDGRUEN]

TO: F430murci... I was going to respond to your post replying to my post(s) but I cannot follow what it is that you are talking about.. In some you seem to be again putting me into positions of opinion that are not mine and I don't understand your sentence structure.. .

Perhaps you should try not to pontificate too much and act as an authority - which you aren't and respond individually to my posts...

And one statement I think you made was about fomites... So I checked again... it is not settled science and a number of researchers including the CDC conclude that the Ebola virus will survive for hours on a number of surfaces ... and if you want the link - use google as there are many ...

But for now I am finished responding to you until you can make a coherent reply ... how about just direct and to the point of what it is that you disagree or agree with me...

Also - you write as it you have some inside knowledge on this subject ... your tone, your manner of 'speaking'. I could care less about how you feel about yourself in this subject matter... I cannot find that you have any special knowledge of this subject except supposedly having a neighbor who knows something.

On the other hand, I actually know something about this subject ... I was educated, trained and worked in this arena and in related subjects.

[F430murci]

TO: F430murci... I was going to respond to your post replying to my post(s) but I cannot follow what it is that you are talking about.. In some you seem to be again putting me into positions of opinion that are not mine and I don't understand your sentence structure.. .

Perhaps you should try not to pontificate too much and act as an authority - which you aren't and respond individually to my posts...

And one statement I think you made was about fomites... So I checked again... it is not settled science and a number of researchers including the CDC conclude that the Ebola virus will survive for hours on a number of surfaces ... and if you want the link - use google as there are many ...

But for now I am finished responding to you until you can make a coherent reply ... how about just direct and to the point of what it is that you disagree or agree with me...

Also - you write as it you have some inside knowledge on this subject ... your tone, your manner of 'speaking'. I could care less about how you feel about yourself in this subject matter... I cannot find that you have any special knowledge of this subject except supposedly having a neighbor who knows something.

On the other hand, I actually know something about this subject ... I was educated, trained and worked in this arena and in related subjects.

Lol, sorry man. Don't care enough about what you write to read it all or realize you posed questions. You and I live in diametrically opposed worlds. If a reliable expert in this "arena and in related subjects," cite your peer review articles and interviews on the subject.

Most of what I posted is direct quotes or paraphrasing of articles. Lol if you consider talking to neighbors and clients we assist in QA at hospitals and nursing homes as "inside info." I am not professing to be buddy, buddy with CDC or Obama . . .. If it bothers you, why read it or why respond?

Edited October 7, 2014 by F430murci

[MJP]

The US response to Ebola on their own soil very much reminds me of their response to Hurricane Katrina.

[JDGRUEN]

TO: F430murci... I was going to respond to your post replying to my post(s) but I cannot follow what it is that you are talking about.. In some you seem to be again putting me into positions of opinion that are not mine and I don't understand your sentence structure.. .

Perhaps you should try not to pontificate too much and act as an authority - which you aren't and respond individually to my posts...

And one statement I think you made was about fomites... So I checked again... it is not settled science and a number of researchers including the CDC conclude that the Ebola virus will survive for hours on a number of surfaces ... and if you want the link - use google as there are many ...

But for now I am finished responding to you until you can make a coherent reply ... how about just direct and to the point of what it is that you disagree or agree with me...

Also - you write as it you have some inside knowledge on this subject ... your tone, your manner of 'speaking'. I could care less about how you feel about yourself in this subject matter... I cannot find that you have any special knowledge of this subject except supposedly having a neighbor who knows something.

On the other hand, I actually know something about this subject ... I was educated, trained and worked in this arena and in related subjects.

Lol, sorry man. Don't care enough about what you write to read it all or realize you posed questions. You and I live in diametrically opposed worlds. If a reliable expert in this "arena and in related subjects," cite your peer review articles and interviews on the subject.

Most of what I posted is direct quotes or paraphrasing of articles. Lol if you consider talking to neighbors and clients we assist in QA at hospitals and nursing homes as "inside info." I am not professing to be buddy, buddy with CDC or Obama . . .. If it bothers you, why read it or why respond?

Do you realize your first paragraph makes little sense and only makes clear my point about you having no expertise to even post on this subject as the only thing you can do is talk about what someone else thinks ... Your direct quotes are clipped and filled with remarks that seem to be directed to other people.. I don't think you have any idea as to what you are doing except trying to latch on to other's opinions ... I will just make sure I go put you on IGNORE so I will not be bothered by your pontificating jibberish...

[F430murci]

TO: F430murci... I was going to respond to your post replying to my post(s) but I cannot follow what it is that you are talking about.. In some you seem to be again putting me into positions of opinion that are not mine and I don't understand your sentence structure.. .

Perhaps you should try not to pontificate too much and act as an authority - which you aren't and respond individually to my posts...

And one statement I think you made was about fomites... So I checked again... it is not settled science and a number of researchers including the CDC conclude that the Ebola virus will survive for hours on a number of surfaces ... and if you want the link - use google as there are many ...

But for now I am finished responding to you until you can make a coherent reply ... how about just direct and to the point of what it is that you disagree or agree with me...

Also - you write as it you have some inside knowledge on this subject ... your tone, your manner of 'speaking'. I could care less about how you feel about yourself in this subject matter... I cannot find that you have any special knowledge of this subject except supposedly having a neighbor who knows something.

On the other hand, I actually know something about this subject ... I was educated, trained and worked in this arena and in related subjects.

Lol, sorry man. Don't care enough about what you write to read it all or realize you posed questions. You and I live in diametrically opposed worlds. If a reliable expert in this "arena and in related subjects," cite your peer review articles and interviews on the subject.

Most of what I posted is direct quotes or paraphrasing of articles. Lol if you consider talking to neighbors and clients we assist in QA at hospitals and nursing homes as "inside info." I am not professing to be buddy, buddy with CDC or Obama . . .. If it bothers you, why read it or why respond?

Do you realize your first paragraph makes little sense and only makes clear my point about you having no expertise to even post on this subject as the only thing you can do is talk about what someone else thinks ... Your direct quotes are clipped and filled with remarks that seem to be directed to other people.. I don't think you have any idea as to what you are doing except trying to latch on to other's opinions ... I will just make sure I go put you on IGNORE so I will not be bothered by your pontificating jibberish...

Oh he'll, I have gone it done it now. Not the ignore!!! Maybe you should be gatekeeper on this thread and keep all of us non-experts out so you can debate the one that listens to you . . . Yourself.

MJP:

Not sure Katrina is warranted just yet. Easy to be hyper critical in unprecedented issues that don't go well. Seems like hospitals, NIH and CDC are clamping down. I do admire the current transparency and somewhat surprised we are getting play by plays each time someone shows up somewhere with symptoms.

[MJP]

TO: F430murci... I was going to respond to your post replying to my post(s) but I cannot follow what it is that you are talking about.. In some you seem to be again putting me into positions of opinion that are not mine and I don't understand your sentence structure.. .

Perhaps you should try not to pontificate too much and act as an authority - which you aren't and respond individually to my posts...

And one statement I think you made was about fomites... So I checked again... it is not settled science and a number of researchers including the CDC conclude that the Ebola virus will survive for hours on a number of surfaces ... and if you want the link - use google as there are many ...

But for now I am finished responding to you until you can make a coherent reply ... how about just direct and to the point of what it is that you disagree or agree with me...

Also - you write as it you have some inside knowledge on this subject ... your tone, your manner of 'speaking'. I could care less about how you feel about yourself in this subject matter... I cannot find that you have any special knowledge of this subject except supposedly having a neighbor who knows something.

On the other hand, I actually know something about this subject ... I was educated, trained and worked in this arena and in related subjects.

Lol, sorry man. Don't care enough about what you write to read it all or realize you posed questions. You and I live in diametrically opposed worlds. If a reliable expert in this "arena and in related subjects," cite your peer review articles and interviews on the subject.

Most of what I posted is direct quotes or paraphrasing of articles. Lol if you consider talking to neighbors and clients we assist in QA at hospitals and nursing homes as "inside info." I am not professing to be buddy, buddy with CDC or Obama . . .. If it bothers you, why read it or why respond?

Do you realize your first paragraph makes little sense and only makes clear my point about you having no expertise to even post on this subject as the only thing you can do is talk about what someone else thinks ... Your direct quotes are clipped and filled with remarks that seem to be directed to other people.. I don't think you have any idea as to what you are doing except trying to latch on to other's opinions ... I will just make sure I go put you on IGNORE so I will not be bothered by your pontificating jibberish...

Oh he'll, I have gone it done it now. Not the ignore!!! Maybe you should be gatekeeper on this thread and keep all of us non-experts out so you can debate the one that listens to you . . . Yourself.

MJP:

Not sure Katrina is warranted just yet. Easy to be hyper critical in unprecedented issues that don't go well. Seems like hospitals, NIH and CDC are clamping down. I do admire the current transparency and somewhat surprised we are getting play by plays each time someone shows up somewhere with symptoms.

US Govt makes a lot of noise about Ebola in Africa but when it hits the US there seems to be this air of near arrogant complacency.

EDIT: "Flippant" is the word my pea brain was searching for.

Edited October 7, 2014 by MJP

[F430murci]

Lol, sorry man. Don't care enough about what you write to read it all or realize you posed questions. You and I live in diametrically opposed worlds. If a reliable expert in this "arena and in related subjects," cite your peer review articles and interviews on the subject.

Most of what I posted is direct quotes or paraphrasing of articles. Lol if you consider talking to neighbors and clients we assist in QA at hospitals and nursing homes as "inside info." I am not professing to be buddy, buddy with CDC or Obama . . .. If it bothers you, why read it or why respond?

Do you realize your first paragraph makes little sense and only makes clear my point about you having no expertise to even post on this subject as the only thing you can do is talk about what someone else thinks ... Your direct quotes are clipped and filled with remarks that seem to be directed to other people.. I don't think you have any idea as to what you are doing except trying to latch on to other's opinions ... I will just make sure I go put you on IGNORE so I will not be bothered by your pontificating jibberish...

Oh he'll, I have gone it done it now. Not the ignore!!! Maybe you should be gatekeeper on this thread and keep all of us non-experts out so you can debate the one that listens to you . . . Yourself.

MJP:

Not sure Katrina is warranted just yet. Easy to be hyper critical in unprecedented issues that don't go well. Seems like hospitals, NIH and CDC are clamping down. I do admire the current transparency and somewhat surprised we are getting play by plays each time someone shows up somewhere with symptoms.

US Govt makes a lot of noise about Ebola in Africa but when it hits the US there seems to be this air of near arrogant complacency.

EDIT: "Flippant" is the word my pea brain was searching for.

All along, the medical community has been pretty consistent that US and Europe are capable of containing and thwarting the spread of Ebola on its own soil. Thus far, there is no indication this is incorrect. What you call arrogance, I term objective level headed response at this time.

The hospital in Texas screwed up and they admitted it. Since then, everyone now seems to be overly cautious and the extent of the transparency is both surprising and encouraging, especially given our HIPAA laws.

What are the alternatives? Martial law. Shut down all air travel (I agree about shutting down travel originating from Africa), use Blackhawk helicopters to machine gun down any illegals crossing border, nationwide curfews, mandatory respirators for all? People complain about government intrusion and control and then the same complaint about not enough government intrusion of control. Fact is, no matter how US responds, there will be some that complain.

I don't think it is flippant at this time. I think it is rational, measured and appropriate. The problem is the inclination by some to politicize or use this is a political tool here to rally their base and try and get votes to keep their seats or to gain control. I am trying to look past the politics and listen to the medical community.

[F430murci]

NEW YORK (AP) — Public hospitals in New York City are concerned enough about Ebola that they've secretly been sending actors with mock symptoms into emergency rooms to test how well the triage staffs identify and isolate possible cases.

A small hospital in the Ohio countryside has hung up signs imploring patients to let nurses know immediately if they have traveled recently to West Africa.

And across the U.S., one of the nation's largest ambulance companies has put together step-by-step instructions on how to wrap the interior of a rig with plastic sheeting while transporting a patient.

There hasn't been a single confirmed case of someone being infected with Ebolaon U.S. soil — the one confirmed case here involves a man who contracted the virus overseas. But health care providers are worried enough that they are taking a wide variety of precautions.

It isn't yet clear whether those preparations are overkill, or not nearly enough. But medical officials and health experts say that, at the very least, the scare is giving them a chance to reinforce and test infection control procedures.

"The attention has been, in a sad way, very helpful," said Dr. Richard Wenzel, an epidemiologist at Virginia Commonwealth University and a former president of the International Society for Infectious Diseases.

. . .

In New York, 24 patients have been put into isolation over the past eight weeks in city-owned hospitals because of fears that they might have Ebola

. . .

City 911 operators have been told to ask certain people calling for an ambulance whether they've been to West Africa recently.

. . .

That question is also becoming the norm at AMR, which operates private ambulances in 40 states.

. . .

suggested that cab drivers might be given pamphlets urging them to ask sick passengers on the way to the hospital the same question being posed now by ambulance drivers and triage nurses: Have you traveled to West Africa lately?

. . .

http://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/US-health-providers-expand-their-Ebola-precautions-5805539.php

[Asiantravel]

But there is nothing at all unusual about scientists vehemently disagreeing with each other as in this case and it's impossible for you or I to know who is correct, or who is the most qualified.

Just because your neighbour has said these things doesn't make him any more of an authority than those who have said the direct opposite such as David Sanders at Purdue University

The storys author explains in some technical detail why its next to impossible for the virus to get into cells in the airway, quoting Vanderbilt University infectious disease expert William Schaffner, who said the virus isnt equipped to attach to receptors in the cells that line our airways.

But Dr. Schaffner does not do research in this area. Biologist David Sanders at Purdue University does. In fact, Sanders conducts experiments with modified Ebola viruses and tissue cultures and he said he has seen direct evidence that Ebola does have the capacity to attach to receptors in the so-called epithelial cells in human lungs. Saying that Ebola cant get into the airway because it cant find the receptors is patently wrong, he said. We know Ebola has the correct interactions with the receptors so the sort of argument they are making is fallacious.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fayeflam/2014/10/03/out-of-control-but-nothing-to-worry-about-behind-the-mixed-signals-on-ebola-outbreak/the

Curious as to why you want so bad for this to be air borne and catastrophic? Same reason you hooe US suffers an economic collapse? Rhetorical question, but again speaks volumes and requires an inward examination to truly be answered.

Sanders still speaking in terms of hypothetical, says not currently air borne, unlikely it will mutate and become air borne, but risk is not zero.

-----------

Sanders states:

That doesnt mean its likely to evolve the capacity to become airborne, he said, but the possibility is not vanishingly small as it is for HIV. How unlikely? Not enough is known to put a number on it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fayeflam/2014/10/03/out-of-control-but-nothing-to-worry-about-behind-the-mixed-signals-on-ebola-outbreak/

“Curious as to why you want so bad for this to be air borne and catastrophic? “

And why would any normal person (as opposed to you who labels every second person as a nutcase, even including distinguished military personnel like Air Force General Thomas Mackinerny ), come to that conclusion simply because I post information that contradicts what your neighbour tells you?

Some Ebola experts worry virus may spread more easily than assumed

Charles L. Bailey supervised the government’s response to an outbreak of Ebola among several dozen rhesus monkeys housed for research in Reston, Va., a suburb of Washington.

What Bailey learned from the episode informs his suspicion that the current strain of Ebola afflicting humans might be spread through tiny liquid droplets propelled into the air by coughing or sneezing.

We know for a fact that the virus occurs in sputum and no one has ever done a study [disproving that] coughing or sneezing is a viable means of transmitting,” he said. Unqualified assurances that Ebola is not spread through the air, Bailey said, are “misleading.”

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

Edited October 8, 2014 by Asiantravel