Links revealed between police and migrants on Koh Tao

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Some quick maths.

There are 2000 migrant workers paying 500 baht a month in bribes to the local police. That works out to be 1 million baht a month, or 12 million baht a year.

Converted into US Dollars thats around $370,000 USD per year in bribes just from the burmese workers (not counting bribes from businesses who employ farang in the Dive or bar industry). There are anywhere from 5-7 permanent police officers. Assuming there are 5, these cops are pulling in $74,000 USD per year in bribes, just from Burmese workers.

A new police officers salary is 7200 baht per month (86,400 per year / $2662 USD) and can rise to a maximum of around 70,000 baht per month (840k baht per year or around $26,000 USD). This means that that the average cop is pulling anywhere from 3 to 27 times their annual salary in bribes.

That is absolutely INSANE !

It don't work like that.

The bulk of the bribes will be passed up the feeding chain, everyone up to the top gets a share.

I doubt the local cops keep more than 10-25% of the total take.

[ikke]

Exactly, and also why people who think The General will be the big "savior" of corruption in Thailand are wrong. Nothing has really changed or will change, because the corruption-level is to deep and widespread here. It will take many generations overcome this.

It does not have to take many generations....look at what happened in Singapore..

Where the great leader goes wrong here.. is that he starts cleaning from the bottom, eg beach vendors, taxi drivers etc..

Where he should start from the top, eg the entire police force and his own so precious army leaders.

Problem is, nobody with money in Thailand goes to jail... jail is for the poor.

Agree 100%, Nothing changed so far, and I doubt something will ever change.

[MikeENZ]

Agreed, most of it likely goes up the food chain... kicked back to the chief of police in the region. I've heard figures of millions of dollars being paid for chief of police positions in areas such as phuket, pattaya, phangan etc... and they've gotta recoup their investment somehow.

One wonders how much of this is donated to certain places which I won't mention due to forum rules in order to make merit and gain barami.

[ClutchClark]

there is more egg being poured on the face of the new PM to make 1,000 egg foo youngs for all poor people, worldwide

this case is blowing Thailands world of corruption up faster than the USA and Nagasaki

Economies of corruption exist throughout the world.

China, Russia, the MidEast...the majority of the world looks at this and says, "ofcourse this is life".

[ClutchClark]

It's easy for Thais in authority to take advantage of foreign workers. Same for Chinese and Chinese-Thais employers. Despicable.

As for tax. Gimme a break. The richer a person is in Thailand, the easier it is to avoid tax. The peons at the bottom rungs of the ladder shouldn't pay tax (as some on this thread are alluding to). Every baht they put in their pockets (that's not getting sent to relatives in their home country) is being spent locally. Each baht spent locally gets circulated about 7 times.

I am not saying they should pay taxes. I am simply saying that the money they currently pay in bribes would have to be made up somewhere and somehow.

And they are sending over half their wages home. Are you from the US? Then you should be able to understand how this export of cash damages an economy since the harmful effects have been seen by illegals in the US doing the same thing. Excuse me--undocumented workers.

Cheers

Edited October 2, 2014 by ClutchClark

[englishoak]

But theres no mafia or wrongdoing on Koh Tao .... honest

[faranghh]

I feel that if we stopped all the corruption the country would come to a full stop. government salaries would need to be revised to be equal to civilians doing the same type of work and then and only then could corruption be stopped with a real threat of Jail.

A builder friend wished to use my gang of builders but would have to pay money to 2 different police areas just to get them on site each day. (Pranburi to Cha Am.) plus more to the police in the area they would be working! worked out cheaper to hire local.

[Soutpeel]

there is more egg being poured on the face of the new PM to make 1,000 egg foo youngs for all poor people, worldwide

this case is blowing Thailands world of corruption up faster than the USA and Nagasaki

Economies of corruption exist throughout the world.

China, Russia, the MidEast...the majority of the world looks at this and says, "ofcourse this is life".

why single out China, Russia and middle east ?, add UK, US ,Germany, Italy, Greece etc .....the difference in these countries is that is just not as in your face/blatent as it is in Thailand.

[JoeLing]

As an old proverb says:

Fish rot from the head down

[halloween]

It's easy for Thais in authority to take advantage of foreign workers. Same for Chinese and Chinese-Thais employers. Despicable.

As for tax. Gimme a break. The richer a person is in Thailand, the easier it is to avoid tax. The peons at the bottom rungs of the ladder shouldn't pay tax (as some on this thread are alluding to). Every baht they put in their pockets (that's not getting sent to relatives in their home country) is being spent locally. Each baht spent locally gets circulated about 7 times.

I am not saying they should pay taxes. I am simply saying that t

And they are sending over half their wages home. Are you from the US? Then you should be able to understand how this export of cash damages an economy since the harmful effects have been seen by illegals in the US doing the same thing. Excuse me--undocumented workers.

Cheers

Are you avoiding answering my questions?

"the money they currently pay in bribes would have to be made up somewhere and somehow." To whom? Certainly not the tax system?

Has it occurred that if they weren't paying bribes they might actually enjoy a better life style? or don't they deserve that?

Which would damage the economy more, the money they send home, or withdrawing them from the workforce? i think people smarter than you have already worked that out.

[noitom]

Let's see what the general does to clean this Thai island up and others like it. These Thai islands and communities that operate with Thai big men and police running things are sewers.

[jaywalker]

About time the new "boss" stepped in and sorted the police / corruption problem once and for all. He started off well sacking / relocating many of the heavies but it's now time to sort out the lower level troops.

Not to single one guy out, nor mention any names, but I've worked with General officers of the US, UAE, Kuwaiti and Thai militaries, and they ALL had their heads in the clouds.

It was like they lived on planet Pluto. They really had zero clue what the situation was like on the ground at the grunt/troop level.

I've seen US Army Lt. Colonel's in charge of HUGE projects (Project Manager was his title), like the up-armored HMMWV (Hummvee) in Iraq, that had never even ridden in one (no shit).

To think that an Admiral General Aladeen knows what is going on, at the lower/level troop level, is wishful thinking. He has a vague idea at best.

Edited October 2, 2014 by jaywalker

[Halion]

i not have a problem with burmese coming here to feed their families but have a big problem with police taking money from them to do so.

wrong on so many levels.

Consider it an alternative to direct taxation on wages and vehicles and property and purchases and....

These people don't earn enough to pay tax.

My point is that if it were not for this type of payment system then a formal taxation system would need to exist. I am not saying that a tax system would be a bad thing but its essentially the same thing.

Public servants do not make a living wage so they take bribes , a large portion of those bribes are then paid up the ladder until it reaches the highest levels of govt. Its like a bottom-up system versus a trickle-down system we are used to where sufficient salaries are paid to public servants through taxes paid by workers (and others).

I am not saying I support this Thai system or that it is the most efficient--I am only pointing out that nothing is for free. Including coming to Thailand to earn wages to send home and not benefit the local economy.

Yes coming to Thailand to be exploited for long hours and low wages and then being further exploited by the RTP for the privileged.. There is not one Thai on this planet earning 6,000/monthly that pays tax.

[oneday]

The thing that strikes me is this is ONE small island and look at all the corruption and supposed mafia figures that have been uncovered or brought to light. Thailand has a very long way to go to root out corruption in the entire country. It will be decades before change can happen.

[Keesters]

I read:

sense of civic responsibility?

and thought

Thailand?

then fell off my chair LOL.

[casindonet]

Any TV members/readers surprise with this news?

[crazygreg44]

My point is that if it were not for this type of payment system then a formal taxation system would need to exist. I am not saying that a tax system would be a bad thing but its essentially the same thing.

Public servants do not make a living wage so they take bribes , a large portion of those bribes are then paid up the ladder until it reaches the highest levels of govt. Its like a bottom-up system versus a trickle-down system we are used to where sufficient salaries are paid to public servants through taxes paid by workers (and others).

I am not saying I support this Thai system or that it is the most efficient--I am only pointing out that nothing is for free. Including coming to Thailand to earn wages to send home and not benefit the local economy.

So a police force paid to uphold the law, can now be justified in extortion. If they dont make a living wage why are their big bosses in power not trying to improve their pay and conditions?

Maybe many of the workers would be happy to register, pay tax and regularize themselves in the country, unfortunately Thais are very happy to employ them, but prefer to keep it irregular as it is cheaper labor.

exactly, and since the Burmese have no rights, the employers can from time to time stop paying them without getting sued. When not getting paid in time, the Burmese or Cambodians ave no choice but to continue working and put their hope into that they will eventually get paid. Police moves in and deport them, saving the Thai company headmen several months of pay they owe these people. New Burmese and Cambodians are being recruited, and the caroussel starts again ! Please General , ask your countrymen to treat other Asians right, and stop the infringement

[Local Drunk]

It sounds like they're running their own little country on this island and maybe they've been getting away with it for decades. Taoland ?

I wonder how many other islands this kind of thing is happening on ?

It's pretty much like that everywhere ... The islands, the provinces or even your local neighborhoods in Bkk. It's all about the "big man" here.

[khunpa]

Well, at least they seem to have dropped the "brilliant" wristband idea... so some good news at least ;-)

Tourist Minister is properly hanging somewhere by her tits right now, regretting she every said that. Or maybe she is being praised by the "Buddy" idea...

[JOC]

2,000,000 a month is a nice little earner for the bibs. I wonder what each guy transferred in has to pay to get to KT?

Rumours said that the new chief of police in my town paid 40M baht to get his position, money he appearantly borrowed from one of the local temples!!

No matter how long time we stay here, and think we understand Thailand, there are things going on here far beyond our comprehension!

[kriswillems]

The Thai police is a mafia organisation. It does more bad than good.

Now, we know all this, why is the whole police corpse of Ko Toa not just fired?

Is it possible that the military leaders are into it too? What could be the reason the army tolerates this?

It looks like in Thailand corruption is illegal only if you don't share part of the income with the top.

Edited October 2, 2014 by kriswillems

[khunpa]

My point is that if it were not for this type of payment system then a formal taxation system would need to exist. I am not saying that a tax system would be a bad thing but its essentially the same thing.

Public servants do not make a living wage so they take bribes , a large portion of those bribes are then paid up the ladder until it reaches the highest levels of govt. Its like a bottom-up system versus a trickle-down system we are used to where sufficient salaries are paid to public servants through taxes paid by workers (and others).

I am not saying I support this Thai system or that it is the most efficient--I am only pointing out that nothing is for free. Including coming to Thailand to earn wages to send home and not benefit the local economy.

So a police force paid to uphold the law, can now be justified in extortion. If they dont make a living wage why are their big bosses in power not trying to improve their pay and conditions?

Maybe many of the workers would be happy to register, pay tax and regularize themselves in the country, unfortunately Thais are very happy to employ them, but prefer to keep it irregular as it is cheaper labor.

exactly, and since the Burmese have no rights, the employers can from time to time stop paying them without getting sued. When not getting paid in time, the Burmese or Cambodians ave no choice but to continue working and put their hope into that they will eventually get paid. Police moves in and deport them, saving the Thai company headmen several months of pay they owe these people. New Burmese and Cambodians are being recruited, and the caroussel starts again ! Please General , ask your countrymen to treat other Asians right, and stop the infringement

You seriously thinks he will do that? You know he is Thai right?

[Keesters]

Including coming to Thailand to earn wages to send home and not benefit the local economy.

There is not one Thai on this planet earning 6,000/monthly that pays tax.

They pay tax just not income tax. There is VAT on the stuff they buy. There is excise tax on cigarettes and alcohol they may consume. And the businesses they buy the products from as well as the businesses that produce and distribute the goods pay business tax. The more they buy the more tax the businesses pay on the profits made. Your money is not just taxed once but many times. Every Thai on this planet pays tax in one form or another. And every single person here Thai citizen or not benefits, to some degree, the local economy as they spend money.

[Lupatria]

Thainess at it's best! One may equally say: rotten to the bone!

[MikeENZ]

Generally its expected to kick back 30% or thereabouts to the guy above you.

[claffey]

There is a formal tax system. There's a personal allowance before which income tax is paid and income tax bands thereafter.

Burmese workers won't earn more than the personal allowance.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Thailand's Income Tax system and Tax allowances.You need to earn over 150,000 per year before you start paying tax...

[SOTIRIOS]

....so they can do with them as they will.....???

....what was the status that Thailand was applying for....human rights hub.....???

[Oziex1]

i not have a problem with burmese coming here to feed their families but have a big problem with police taking money from them to do so.

wrong on so many levels.

Consider it an alternative to direct taxation on wages and vehicles and property and purchases and....

These people don't earn enough to pay tax.

My point is that if it were not for this type of payment system then a formal taxation system would need to exist. I am not saying that a tax system would be a bad thing but its essentially the same thing.

Public servants do not make a living wage so they take bribes , a large portion of those bribes are then paid up the ladder until it reaches the highest levels of govt. Its like a bottom-up system versus a trickle-down system we are used to where sufficient salaries are paid to public servants through taxes paid by workers (and others).

I am not saying I support this Thai system or that it is the most efficient--I am only pointing out that nothing is for free. Including coming to Thailand to earn wages to send home and not benefit the local economy.

I appreciate the explanation, however as naive as it may sound is it too much to expect that at least a little of this vast cash collection be used to the benefit of the public, fix some roads, a foot path, water supply. No it only lines the pockets of the elite and they don't give a damn.

[TheFishman1]

Police equals Business here won't change Cops make more money the you would think

[ColdSingha]

Generally its expected to kick back 30% or thereabouts to the guy above you.

and this is why "real" police work rarely gets done. in their minds it's a far better use of their time to collect tea money at 30% commission

remember that the next time a policeman tells you he "help you"