Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'

[AleG]

2/3 of the country arnt just going to disappear, they will adapt and wait.

Since when do Red Shirts constitute two thirds of the country?

Edit to add, it's quite ironic you have a signature decrying propaganda.

Edited October 7, 2014 by AleG

[englishoak]

2/3 of the country arnt just going to disappear, they will adapt and wait.

Since when do Red Shirts constitute two thirds of the country?

Edit to add, it's quite ironic you have a signature decrying propaganda.

Not propaganda son fact. I didnt mention red shirts you did.

Did you forget all the other parties and voters, not to mention the ones who dont vote or floating voters ?

I think youll find there are more than just PTP supporters who vote, when allowed that is.

Edited October 7, 2014 by englishoak

[AleG]

2/3 of the country arnt just going to disappear, they will adapt and wait.

Since when do Red Shirts constitute two thirds of the country?

Edit to add, it's quite ironic you have a signature decrying propaganda.

Not propaganda son fact. I didnt mention red shirts you did.

Did you forget all the other parties and voters, not to mention the ones who dont vote or floating voters ?

I think youll find there are more than just PTP supporters who vote, when allowed that is.

You didn't mean Red Shirts, right, nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

[englishoak]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

[AleG]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Yes they are, they are also part of the problem that led to the current situation, perhaps they should take this moment of silence to reflect on how and why things are as they are now and try to find ways of helping the country move forward. At least the Red hoi polloi, the leadership, as per the OP is not interested in such things.

[englishoak]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Yes they are, they are also part of the problem that led to the current situation, perhaps they should take this moment of silence to reflect on how and why things are as they are now and try to find ways of helping the country move forward. At least the Red hoi polloi, the leadership, as per the OP is not interested in such things.

Ahh so only one political group is part of the problem and not the other, .... got it of course it is. I mean the Democrats wouldnt boycott an election .... twice or blockade an airport or anything. But thats fine they are moving the country forwards.... give me a break

[rubl]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Shouldn't that be 'a large part of the forced silent group which may or may not be a majority of the Thai population'?

We could have a poll on that, but I doubt you would believe the results one way or another.

[rubl]

Well, anyone who seems to want to go back to the chaos we had more than four months ago doesn't seem to be interested in moving their country (or as posters are concerned this country) forward.

BTW do you honestly believe all the nonsense you write? The assumptions stated as facts?

I have an opinion as do you. Mine however, does not include embracing military coups.

somehow your 'opinion' seems to be phrased as clear and obvious 'fact' apart from the implied negatives on other people's opinion.

BTW 'embraced'? That's again your opinion, I'd say.

[englishoak]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Shouldn't that be 'a large part of the forced silent group which may or may not be a majority of the Thai population'?

We could have a poll on that, but I doubt you would believe the results one way or another.

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

[rubl]

So you think generals should be allowed to commit coups with impunity. That's clearly the attitude in Thailand's military.

There seem to be two kinds of countries in the world; countries where coups are treated as acts of treason, and countries that have a lot of coups.

... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put.

In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward. They seem to like to be able to say they didn't get involved ignoring they didn't want to get involved. Jatuporn seems really annoyed he didn't even get the chance to refuse being appointed

"... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put."

Yes, there are quite a few people who think Thailand should be in that category. The ones who are awed by Prayuth and want him to take his time on the job.

"In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward."

They're definitely not interested in helping the junta with its agenda. Perhaps they lack your faith in military dictatorships.

So, no co-operation from red-shirts, none from some foreign posters. The reason, why that should be clear 'history teaches us'. Maybe the other history lesson is on polarising a situation to the point where chaos and violence is unavoidable with of course the others to be blamed. Not the fault of the red-shirts, they didn't do anything, just sit still and suffer in dignity or so. Still peeved off because their refusal to cooperate was taken so literal as to them not even having been forcibly appointed.

[rubl]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Shouldn't that be 'a large part of the forced silent group which may or may not be a majority of the Thai population'?

We could have a poll on that, but I doubt you would believe the results one way or another.

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

[JAG]

I don't think the thai people cares who makes Thailand better, as long as someone stands up and makes the country better. For many decades the country and it's general population have been neglected and mismanaged by generation of generals and politician. They have all failed, except from creating wealth and personal power for themselves and their family and friends.

If general Prayuth can be the leader who finally breaks the depressing trend and creates REAL reforms that lifts ALL Thais, and not only the elite or the people surrounding politicians and local feudal lords, he will be a true hero. Nobody will care if the hero was elected. The only thing that matters are results. People will only respect results. Talk is cheap.

Will not happen! Gen Prayuth cannot, and will not break the hate (ie. any speech made by Mr Suthep about the Northern Thai people) that the Bangkok Elite endears. A Bangkok Elitist NCR, who see Northern Thai as their "buffalo" is not going to precipitate fairness and justice.

The World Bank documents that Bangkok traditionally receives 14 times more in Government revenue than the North,....an inequity that the Shinawatra's attempted balance,...and is now better understood by Northern Thai. The Northern Thai that I've spoke with, are tired of the disrespectful, greedy Elite from Bangkok.

You say the northern Thais 'you have spoke to' hate the BKK elitist?

Strange, because I live in the northern heartlands of the red supporter and most support this current administration, and if there is anyone they are tired of it is the Shins as they have seen through them now and are suffering badly for Thaksin's policies.

Have you been asleep for the past year?

In my fairly limited experience the inhabitants of my little bit of northern Thailand are best described as sceptical about the current administration.

Of course, after the promised election next year, which I am sure will not be in any way manipulated to favour any particular faction, we will be able to know for certain what the people of northern Thailand think of the current administration.

Excellent way of determining the peoples view on governments, one person one vote, in a secret ballot. Can't imagine why it wasn't used back last February to determine who should replace the Yingluck government? I have to confess I thought that was the process stipulated by the constitution....

[englishoak]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Shouldn't that be 'a large part of the forced silent group which may or may not be a majority of the Thai population'?

We could have a poll on that, but I doubt you would believe the results one way or another.

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

Oh ive been brave all along rubi. No excuses now please about there wasnt democracy so a dictatorship is better etc. Heard it all before...06 92 etc etc

Still going on about invisible reforms ? you mean the rice subsidy reform or the Police and or corruption reform ? or the education reforms or the high speed rail reform or do you mean the new Thai polit bureau ?

[heybruce]

So you think generals should be allowed to commit coups with impunity. That's clearly the attitude in Thailand's military.

There seem to be two kinds of countries in the world; countries where coups are treated as acts of treason, and countries that have a lot of coups.

... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put.

In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward. They seem to like to be able to say they didn't get involved ignoring they didn't want to get involved. Jatuporn seems really annoyed he didn't even get the chance to refuse being appointed

"... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put."

Yes, there are quite a few people who think Thailand should be in that category. The ones who are awed by Prayuth and want him to take his time on the job.

"In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward."

They're definitely not interested in helping the junta with its agenda. Perhaps they lack your faith in military dictatorships.

So, no co-operation from red-shirts, none from some foreign posters. The reason, why that should be clear 'history teaches us'. Maybe the other history lesson is on polarising a situation to the point where chaos and violence is unavoidable with of course the others to be blamed. Not the fault of the red-shirts, they didn't do anything, just sit still and suffer in dignity or so. Still peeved off because their refusal to cooperate was taken so literal as to them not even having been forcibly appointed.

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

[norstatin]

"Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan said he was not surprised that neither red-shirt supporters nor members of Pheu Thai Party were appointed NRC members because his group had refused to join in the first place."

Talk about stating the obvious, or is Jatuporn disappointed that even though the UDD refused to join no one of them were appointed against their will ?

Classic Jatuporn thought process....... non-existent.

[Thanet]

Sad to see so many posters choose a military dictatorship over democracy!!

I don't care if it is a red or yellow government, but at least let the Thais have a say in who is going to steal from them!!

Until Thailand gets rid of its feudal system with its mighty protectors, nothing is going to change.

To the posters here, who blindly believe in the new Mr Big, wonder how his brother got so wealthy??

Are you suggesting posters actually had an influence over whether there was a coup or not?

A lot of people aren't choosing a military dictatorship, they're just pointing out the problems with the previous government.

Thankfully, you don't have influence over anything here.

Why shouldn't voters, rather than out of touch old soldiers, should be left to point out problems with governments?

[AleG]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Yes they are, they are also part of the problem that led to the current situation, perhaps they should take this moment of silence to reflect on how and why things are as they are now and try to find ways of helping the country move forward. At least the Red hoi polloi, the leadership, as per the OP is not interested in such things.

Ahh so only one political group is part of the problem and not the other, .... got it of course it is. I mean the Democrats wouldnt boycott an election .... twice or blockade an airport or anything. But thats fine they are moving the country forwards.... give me a break

Some reading comprehension pointers: when I say "they are also part of the problem" it implies they represent a sub-set of the problem, therefore they are not the entirety of the problem.

Having said that, the Red Shirt leadership, unlike the Democrats, have explicitly stated that they will do nothing to help the country move forward. Unless playing the victim card by claiming they've been excluded from the process after rejecting to take part in it counts as a constructive stance.

[fab4]

Well, anyone who seems to want to go back to the chaos we had more than four months ago doesn't seem to be interested in moving their country (or as posters are concerned this country) forward.

BTW do you honestly believe all the nonsense you write? The assumptions stated as facts?

I have an opinion as do you. Mine however, does not include embracing military coups.

somehow your 'opinion' seems to be phrased as clear and obvious 'fact' apart from the implied negatives on other people's opinion.

BTW 'embraced'? That's again your opinion, I'd say.

Indeed it is my opinion and very justifiable too, I would add. I can't see that there is any other deduction to be made after reading your posts.

[fab4]

Well it did include red shirts, so not off topic at all, they are a large part of the forced silent majority arnt they ?

Shouldn't that be 'a large part of the forced silent group which may or may not be a majority of the Thai population'?

We could have a poll on that, but I doubt you would believe the results one way or another.

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

Which elections were misused, rubl, the ones when the wrong people won, presumably? Curious, then, that abhisit accepted the results of the 2011Election as did ANFREL. Was that Election "misused"?

Was there not a democracy when abhisit was PM or was it not a democracy only when the wrong people were in power?

and again with the "not toeing the junta/PDRC line" is interpreted by you as "negative attitude". Tell me again I'm just making assumptions when daring to say that you're embracing the coup wholeheartedly, I need to be "re-educated" it seems.

[tbthailand]

... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put.

In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward. They seem to like to be able to say they didn't get involved ignoring they didn't want to get involved. Jatuporn seems really annoyed he didn't even get the chance to refuse being appointed

"... and countries where coups are no longer necessary as the Military Dictatorship just stays put."

Yes, there are quite a few people who think Thailand should be in that category. The ones who are awed by Prayuth and want him to take his time on the job.

"In the mean time we have red-shirts not interested in helping their country move forward."

They're definitely not interested in helping the junta with its agenda. Perhaps they lack your faith in military dictatorships.

So, no co-operation from red-shirts, none from some foreign posters. The reason, why that should be clear 'history teaches us'. Maybe the other history lesson is on polarising a situation to the point where chaos and violence is unavoidable with of course the others to be blamed. Not the fault of the red-shirts, they didn't do anything, just sit still and suffer in dignity or so. Still peeved off because their refusal to cooperate was taken so literal as to them not even having been forcibly appointed.

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

for one, from the UDD perspective, the 'NCPO' has no legitimacy to govern, much less institute reforms. Not supporting that or participating is a typical response.

For another, let's say the UDD had thrown themselves into the selection ring - presumably to influence the result of the NRC reforms. The foregone conclusion is that their influence would be zero - the 'NCPO' and not the NRC is calling the shots, and yet their participation would support the 'NCPO' and their illusion that the NRC was somehow legitimate.

If your stand is against 'interventions', then you don't break bread with them.

[tbthailand]

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

Which elections were misused, rubl, the ones when the wrong people won, presumably? Curious, then, that abhisit accepted the results of the 2011Election as did ANFREL. Was that Election "misused"?

Was there not a democracy when abhisit was PM or was it not a democracy only when the wrong people were in power?

and again with the "not toeing the junta/PDRC line" is interpreted by you as "negative attitude". Tell me again I'm just making assumptions when daring to say that you're embracing the coup wholeheartedly, I need to be "re-educated" it seems.

I hear they have air-con and music videos.

[See the bears]

How can he stand straight-faced and try to shovel this off as reconciliation? How could one do anything quite as divisive and unreconciliatory as purging all affiliates of one group and installing their bitter rivals in positions of power? What amazes me are the idiots on here who still try to argue it is at all valid or positive.

[rubl]

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

Oh ive been brave all along rubi. No excuses now please about there wasnt democracy so a dictatorship is better etc. Heard it all before...06 92 etc etc

Still going on about invisible reforms ? you mean the rice subsidy reform or the Police and or corruption reform ? or the education reforms or the high speed rail reform or do you mean the new Thai polit bureau ?

The reforms which the NRC committees will now try to formulate after the quest for input from all helpful, well meaning Thai.

As we are still under Martial Law they might even ask the NCPO to force the less helpful to provide their input

[rubl]

So, no co-operation from red-shirts, none from some foreign posters. The reason, why that should be clear 'history teaches us'. Maybe the other history lesson is on polarising a situation to the point where chaos and violence is unavoidable with of course the others to be blamed. Not the fault of the red-shirts, they didn't do anything, just sit still and suffer in dignity or so. Still peeved off because their refusal to cooperate was taken so literal as to them not even having been forcibly appointed.

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

The red shirts seem to think "if not my way then no way' and their way was that as defined by that democratic figure called Thaksin.

Any way, we have Jatuporn stating to be not surprised with no red-shirts or Pheu Thai party members in the NRC committees as his group had refused to join. Seem it now is 'Jatuporn thinks, Pheu Thai acts'.

Since the UDD leaders are so clear in their indifference, pessimism and contempt and with Dr. weng stating 'what's the point' it would seem they are somewhat peeved at not being able to steer and guide as they like to do. As far as I know they didn't even offer the 'red-shirt school for democracy' curriculum as input.

Edited October 8, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

How can he stand straight-faced and try to shovel this off as reconciliation? How could one do anything quite as divisive and unreconciliatory as purging all affiliates of one group and installing their bitter rivals in positions of power? What amazes me are the idiots on here who still try to argue it is at all valid or positive.

Did you read the OP? Jatuporn stated his group had refused to join.

[rubl]

Your right Juntas use polls democracies use elections ​

and in Thailand elections were misused, but then Thailand wasn't really a democracy, now was it?

It would seem that after four months, some get brave again. No more talks on 'reforms my way', just 'reforms no way'. Cooperation? Helping? Just negative attitude.

Which elections were misused, rubl, the ones when the wrong people won, presumably? Curious, then, that abhisit accepted the results of the 2011Election as did ANFREL. Was that Election "misused"?

Was there not a democracy when abhisit was PM or was it not a democracy only when the wrong people were in power?

and again with the "not toeing the junta/PDRC line" is interpreted by you as "negative attitude". Tell me again I'm just making assumptions when daring to say that you're embracing the coup wholeheartedly, I need to be "re-educated" it seems.

I hear they have air-con and music videos.

'we have a mandate, thanks for voting. Now please go home you're no longer needed. Don't calls us, we call you". And indeed they called upon the faithful when the disaster of the blanket amnesty bill got too many Thai upset (even red-shirts it seems) and the more vil=olent UDD arm of the government needed to be called upon to safe 'darling Yingluck'

Oh by the way, my dear fabs. There is nothing 'daring' in you stating I 'embrace the coup wholeheartedly'. Its just an incorrect interpretation stated as fact which you like to use to annoy and bait.

[rubl]

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

for one, from the UDD perspective, the 'NCPO' has no legitimacy to govern, much less institute reforms. Not supporting that or participating is a typical response.

For another, let's say the UDD had thrown themselves into the selection ring - presumably to influence the result of the NRC reforms. The foregone conclusion is that their influence would be zero - the 'NCPO' and not the NRC is calling the shots, and yet their participation would support the 'NCPO' and their illusion that the NRC was somehow legitimate.

If your stand is against 'interventions', then you don't break bread with them.

A typical response indeed, especially with your 'foregone conclusion is that their influence would be zero'.

Now one may wonder what the meaning was of the 'democratic' reconciliation the Yingluck government had in mind with their blanket amnesty bill. Getting 100,000 people marching in Bangkok in a show of support? Or having Pheu Thai party list MPs and UDD leaders mobilise the 'forces of democracy' to show those anti-government protesters what would be good for them?

Those cowards attacking in the night indeed didn't feel like breaking bread, or reconciliation, intimidation and murder, UDD style. With Ms. Yingluck asking ALL sides to refrain from what one side only did.

[heybruce]

So, no co-operation from red-shirts, none from some foreign posters. The reason, why that should be clear 'history teaches us'. Maybe the other history lesson is on polarising a situation to the point where chaos and violence is unavoidable with of course the others to be blamed. Not the fault of the red-shirts, they didn't do anything, just sit still and suffer in dignity or so. Still peeved off because their refusal to cooperate was taken so literal as to them not even having been forcibly appointed.

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

The red shirts seem to think "if not my way then no way' and their way was that as defined by that democratic figure called Thaksin.

Any way, we have Jatuporn stating to be not surprised with no red-shirts or Pheu Thai party members in the NRC committees as his group had refused to join. Seem it now is 'Jatuporn thinks, Pheu Thai acts'.

Since the UDD leaders are so clear in their indifference, pessimism and contempt and with Dr. weng stating 'what's the point' it would seem they are somewhat peeved at not being able to steer and guide as they like to do. As far as I know they didn't even offer the 'red-shirt school for democracy' curriculum as input.

You seem sure that you know what the UDD was thinking. Were you sitting in on some UDD meetings, or are you speculating?

[heybruce]

Yeah, a lot of people like to minimize their 'cooperation' with military dictatorships. I wonder why that is.

Regarding the redshirts being 'peeved', the title of the OP is "Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'". Not quite the same as peeved.

for one, from the UDD perspective, the 'NCPO' has no legitimacy to govern, much less institute reforms. Not supporting that or participating is a typical response.

For another, let's say the UDD had thrown themselves into the selection ring - presumably to influence the result of the NRC reforms. The foregone conclusion is that their influence would be zero - the 'NCPO' and not the NRC is calling the shots, and yet their participation would support the 'NCPO' and their illusion that the NRC was somehow legitimate.

If your stand is against 'interventions', then you don't break bread with them.

A typical response indeed, especially with your 'foregone conclusion is that their influence would be zero'.

Now one may wonder what the meaning was of the 'democratic' reconciliation the Yingluck government had in mind with their blanket amnesty bill. Getting 100,000 people marching in Bangkok in a show of support? Or having Pheu Thai party list MPs and UDD leaders mobilise the 'forces of democracy' to show those anti-government protesters what would be good for them?

Those cowards attacking in the night indeed didn't feel like breaking bread, or reconciliation, intimidation and murder, UDD style. With Ms. Yingluck asking ALL sides to refrain from what one side only did.

To heck with the topic, let's talk about the amnesty attempt. That's what rubl wants to discuss.

[chotthee]

"The coup-makers violated all rules and now they want to set new rules and have people respect them. It's laughable,"

good point.

"Thaksin violated all rules and Yingluck want to set new rules and have people respect them. It's laughable," said me, who predicts the new charter will be the last, although it will be designed to allows Thaksin Shinawatra from making a political comeback.