Liquid Cows Milk Safety Issues?

[Korat Correct]

There are various Thai companies "bottling" Thai produced milk which should have been pasteurised to international standards.

Correct storage both in the shops and home will prolong its "shelf life" and most is date stamped.

However there are many small dairy farms in Thailand where the cow milking practice and the milk collection system, which is still in churns, does not appear to be of the highest standard . Does this milk go into the liquid or processed market?

Just how safe to drink is Thailand's natural cows milk?

What are the antibiotic residue permitted levels?

Any other nasty micro organisms present?

Are there any figures published?

What should one do if one suspects milk or any other raw food is contaminated?

Are there Public Health testing laboratories available to the public?

[RamdomChances]

There are various Thai companies "bottling" Thai produced milk which should have been pasteurised to international standards.

As far as I'm aware it is pasturised.

However there are many small dairy farms in Thailand where the cow milking practice and the milk collection system, which is still in churns, does not appear to be of the highest standard . Does this milk go into the liquid or processed market?

Most dairy farms still use churns, which are then either collected or delivered to a central "dairy" where it is kept in refrigerated tanks and sold daily, can be for anythning depending on the contracts the dairy has, most of ours ends up being sold to "mali" who make condenced milk, but some goes to a local company pasturising and selling to the schools.

At our dairy and anyother I know of the milk is sampled from the churns and checked daily for antbiotic residuse, bacteria count ect you get bonus's if you milk has a low STC count (stomatic cell count) and if it's over a certian level they wount buy it off you.

Just how safe to drink is Thailand's natural cows milk?

Depends on the cow!! we've often got a few cows with mastitis which we dont sell the milk, oh you have to get the milk off the individual cow checked before you can sell it after medication. I sometimes pasturise my own milk , it's not hard, tates really good but is very full fat. There are permitted residue levels but I could'nt tell you what the actual figures are, we are mainly interested in whether it passes or fails

[h90]

Depends on the cow!! we've often got a few cows with mastitis which we dont sell the milk, oh you have to get the milk off the individual cow checked before you can sell it after medication. I sometimes pasturise my own milk , it's not hard, tates really good but is very full fat. There are permitted residue levels but I could'nt tell you what the actual figures are, we are mainly interested in whether it passes or fails

I know from other countries, that they sell the milk with mastitis and with a lot of antibiotika inside. What might result in problems with producing yoghurt. I know one case where a complete dairy could not produce yoghurt. I guess (but don't know) that there were several cases of mastitis and they used a lot of antibiotika at the same time.

This bad situation was before European Union with lots of small farmer with 2-4 cows and a hugh amount of local dairys. I think in the last 10 years it improved a lot.

Do you know how many dairys are in Thailand and how big they are?

[Mark L.]

RandomChances-you pasturise your own milk?? How so?

[PeaceBlondie]

Related question: is it just the stores I shopped at, or are the expiration dates for white whole milk (or any white, fresh, cold milk) usually tomorrow or yesterday? In contrast, chocolate or cocoa milk seems to have expiration dates a week in advance. Is the dark milk treated differently?

[RamdomChances]

H90

I know from other countries, that they sell the milk with mastitis and with a lot of antibiotika inside

You can't sell it here, each days milk is checked for both. If it's found that you are sending milk with over the limit in anti biotics and it happens to of been poored into the holding takns first you are liable for all the ruined milk, our "dairy" collects about 9 ton a day so could be liable for around 100,000 bhat's worth of milk.

Bacteria (mainly from mastitis) is a bit of a greyer area, the "cleaner' your milk is the more you get for it the milk leaving the dairy is grade 1 ( they can't sell it otherwise), they will allow you to drop to class 2 on the odd occasion (it's averaged out over 15 days) but if you drop to grade 2 on 2 occasions your whole 15 days worth is classed as grade 2, if you drop to grade 3 they stop buying from you until you have sorted the problem out. It's not really cost effective to leave a cow with mastitis, it's better to treat it and not send the milk the usual withdrawal period depends on the medicen given can day as low as 2 days or as much as 10, the milk has to be checked for any residual anti-biotics before you can sell it. I 'm sure I read somewhere that milk with a high bacteria count is no good for making yoghut.

Do you know how many dairys are in Thailand and how big they are?

When I use the term "dairy" it's not really the same as back home. Most small dairy farms sell their milk to a co-operative or private company, these colled the milk, check and grade it and then distribute it depending on what contracts they have. I assume some of the big Korat dairy farms would have their own chilled bulk storage tanks and sell direct. In my local area there are 2 collection canters/dairies between them thay have around 100 farms on the books. Korat is probably the biggest milk producing area in thailand, but I'm sure I read somewhere that every province has some sort of milk production.

RandomChances-you pasturise your own milk?? How so?

Yea I do sometimes. Usually I get a big pan and a 2L palstic bottle, boil some water in the pan with the bottle and cap in it, to sterilise the pan and the bottle. I do have the luxury of picking which cow my milk comes from, so I pick a good one and take 2L from the milk. Put this in the pan and bring just before the boil, you can usually see milk form one or two bubbles on the surface, take off the heat put into your sterilised bottle and chill rapidly, I usually just put it into the fridge until the next day. It keeps really well probably cos it's so fresh and has'nt had to be distrubited to shops ect and tastes great as long as you dont mind full fat ( you could probably skimit your self though).

If you have a thermometer, you can get the data for pasturising off the internet, basicaly the lower the temprature the longer you have to hold the milk at that temp for, it's something like 30 min at about 75 degrees down to 2 seconds at 90 degrees, boiling produces more like a UHT type milk and affects the taste.

PB

Most flavoured milk drink's are made form UHT milk with a much longer shelf life and once cartoned or bottled do not need to be kept chilled. "Fresh" pasturised milk will keep longer than unprocessed milk but still need's to be kept chilled, sometimes you gat a bottle or carton of "fresh" milk that tastes a bit "off" I recon it's because of mis- handling in the supply chain, as it has to go from the botteling plant, then trucked to the shops with changes of temperature ect but thats just my own theory

Edited July 27, 2006 by RamdomChances

[billd766]

Related question: is it just the stores I shopped at, or are the expiration dates for white whole milk (or any white, fresh, cold milk) usually tomorrow or yesterday? In contrast, chocolate or cocoa milk seems to have expiration dates a week in advance. Is the dark milk treated differently?

At the 7/11 in my village the milk usually has about 4 or 5 days shelf life on it, though you may have to sort through the bottles to get the longest date as the retailers will always put the oldest at the front.

my wife is the only one who takes milk in her morning coffee regulary as I drink Earl Grey tea with no milk or sugar.

[Korat Correct]

Fresh Milk?

Who is checking the collection service and dairies?

Who decides the Butterfat content ?

Are there minimum standards?

Where is it printed on the label

Tesco /Big C labelled milk, is it monitored by the retailers?

How can we be sure that the farms are cooling the milk rapidly and keeping the milk in the

churns mixed and cool until collected?

Definition of Cool - below that which bacteria multiply?

The first collection of the day stays on the pickup until the last is collected. Plenty of time for the milk to heat up and become suspect?

The smaller farms give most concern They don't seem to have the resources to hold the milk properly!

[RamdomChances]

How can we be sure that the farms are cooling the milk rapidly and keeping the milk in the

churns mixed and cool until collected?

The milk is checked at the dairy/collection center so it's in your best intrests to try and keep it cool and send it as soon as possible. It's basicaly milked and then straight to the dairy

Definition of Cool - below that which bacteria multiply?

No Idea, don't you have to freeze it to totaly stop bacteria from multiplying ?

The first collection of the day stays on the pickup until the last is collected. Plenty of time for the milk to heat up and become suspect?

Most places you deliver, but if they collect it's done twice a day to coinside with the milkings again the milk would be checked at the dairy not the farm(all the churns are numbered), but yes collecting it does probably lead to more bacteria as the time from the cow to the chiller tanks is probably greater

The smaller farms give most concern They don't seem to have the resources to hold the milk properly!

As I have tried to say small farms don't hold or store milk it goes straight from the cow to a dairy/collection center is checked fo anti-biotics and bacteria then bulk sold on (with further checks when it gets to the buyer). I've yet to see a farm with chiller tanks instaled

[billd766]

Fresh Milk?

Who is checking the collection service and dairies?

Who decides the Butterfat content ?

Are there minimum standards?

Where is it printed on the label

Tesco /Big C labelled milk, is it monitored by the retailers?

How can we be sure that the farms are cooling the milk rapidly and keeping the milk in the

churns mixed and cool until collected?

Definition of Cool - below that which bacteria multiply?

The first collection of the day stays on the pickup until the last is collected. Plenty of time for the milk to heat up and become suspect?

The smaller farms give most concern They don't seem to have the resources to hold the milk properly!

I would assume that there is a government department with inspectors to checks the collection service and dairies, however TIT.

Who cares about the butterfat content?

There probably are minimum standards but TIT.

If you can read Thai and I cannot it is probably on the label.

Big C and Tesco are probably the worst offenders for past the sell by dates, 7/11 seems to be the best as they order less .

Try to understand that if you require the high standards of the Western society then Thailand may not be the best place to find it.

Smaller farms do what they can with what is available given the price of milk bought from them.

If all else fails use powdered milk and sterilised water.

My family and I don't drink that much milk though sometimes we go 2 or 3 days past the sell by date with no ill effects.

[kerryk]

Milk is for cows. Statistically a large number of people are allergic to it. Cheese is a different story. Even under the best conditions in the West it is the cause of major outbreaks of food poisoning. Thais don’t use many dairy products and are not familiar with working with them.

For anyone concerned with weight or general health the elimination of dairy products in a normal diet would probably be a good thing especially in Thailand.

In spite of the PR campaigns of the dairy producing organizations most people feel a lot better if they don’t drink milk.

[h90]

Milk is for cows. Statistically a large number of people are allergic to it. Cheese is a different story. Even under the best conditions in the West it is the cause of major outbreaks of food poisoning. Thais don’t use many dairy products and are not familiar with working with them.

For anyone concerned with weight or general health the elimination of dairy products in a normal diet would probably be a good thing especially in Thailand.

In spite of the PR campaigns of the dairy producing organizations most people feel a lot better if they don’t drink milk.

I never heared that someone can be allergic against milk, but might be. Or do you mean people which can not split the milk sugar (don't know how that is called in english).

I never heared from major outbreaks of food poisoning caused by milk. Milk get either sauer which is not dangerous or it starts fauling which is easy to recognize.

My thais here in the office drink every day their milk or their strange yoghurt like things.

I don't see much reason for promoting milk that much but I also don't see any reason for bashing on it.

Most people have absolut no problem with it (beside the milk sugar and if it is a high fat product you might get fat).

[steveromagnino]

I never heared that someone can be allergic against milk, but might be. Or do you mean people which can not split the milk sugar (don't know how that is called in english).

I never heared from major outbreaks of food poisoning caused by milk. Milk get either sauer which is not dangerous or it starts fauling which is easy to recognize.

My thais here in the office drink every day their milk or their strange yoghurt like things.

I don't see much reason for promoting milk that much but I also don't see any reason for bashing on it.

Most people have absolut no problem with it (beside the milk sugar and if it is a high fat product you might get fat).

Around 30% of Asian people are allergic to lactose which is found in milk (I am one of them). The level of allergy depends on the person, for me I can drink milk for about 3-4 days before I get respatory problems and within 1 day I have slight stomach problems.

My aunt and mother can stomach around 1 table spoon of milk, any more than that and they have quite bad diareahha/lots of ขี้

I come from NZ where the main export is dairy, so they love to lie and tell parents that children should be drinking milk for calcium. And people believe it. I am 6 foot tall, and I got there just fine without milk; I have never had a filling and most dentists I have seen for check ups almost always comment, man you must have drunk lots of milk you have some of the hardest teeth I've seen.

In fact, calcium is best obtained from supplements, bone marrow and the like; the people I know who grew up drinking lots of milk (i.e. most New Zealanders) are overweight and certainly not taller than me (on average).

It is nice enough, and better for you than Coke or Pepsi, but it should NOT be promoted as healthy, it is basically drinking a cup of fat with some calcium (and there is a fair bit of research suggesting that it is not easy to absorb the calcium in milk anyway). In NZ it used to be the case that the dairy industry would encourage milk as a substitute for breast feeding, which still is prevalent in Thailand and is VERY bad for little kiddies.

That said....

'I do like a piece of gorgonzola'

-

[h90]

Around 30% of Asian people are allergic to lactose which is found in milk (I am one of them). The level of allergy depends on the person, for me I can drink milk for about 3-4 days before I get respatory problems and within 1 day I have slight stomach problems.

My aunt and mother can stomach around 1 table spoon of milk, any more than that and they have quite bad diareahha/lots of ขี้

I come from NZ where the main export is dairy, so they love to lie and tell parents that children should be drinking milk for calcium. And people believe it. I am 6 foot tall, and I got there just fine without milk; I have never had a filling and most dentists I have seen for check ups almost always comment, man you must have drunk lots of milk you have some of the hardest teeth I've seen.

In fact, calcium is best obtained from supplements, bone marrow and the like; the people I know who grew up drinking lots of milk (i.e. most New Zealanders) are overweight and certainly not taller than me (on average).

It is nice enough, and better for you than Coke or Pepsi, but it should NOT be promoted as healthy, it is basically drinking a cup of fat with some calcium (and there is a fair bit of research suggesting that it is not easy to absorb the calcium in milk anyway). In NZ it used to be the case that the dairy industry would encourage milk as a substitute for breast feeding, which still is prevalent in Thailand and is VERY bad for little kiddies.

That said....

'I do like a piece of gorgonzola'

-

no they are not allergic, they are intolerance. But basically it does not make a big mistake.

Yes full fat milk might be great for gain weight. Only milk with reduced fat makes sense and than only if you are not lactose intolerant. Milk is a good source for protein, but there are a lot of other good sources.

[kurgen]

I am 6 foot tall, and I got there just fine without milk;

you wouldn't have been any shorter if you'd drunk milk

the people I know who grew up drinking lots of milk (i.e. most New Zealanders) are overweight and certainly not taller than me (on average).

Do you have a height thing

and is VERY bad for little kiddies.

what a load of boll@cks

[h90]

I am 6 foot tall, and I got there just fine without milk;

you wouldn't have been any shorter if you'd drunk milk

the people I know who grew up drinking lots of milk (i.e. most New Zealanders) are overweight and certainly not taller than me (on average).

Do you have a height thing

and is VERY bad for little kiddies.

what a load of boll@cks

kurgen!!!

you can think of that: in this height there is less air pressure and so the partial pressure of oxygen is very low (a solution would be, to go with half height in the sea, dinos did that), that causes several problems with supplying the brain with oxygen. Second the blood pressure is a problem as much higer the head is from the heart (giraffe have here a different kind of valve like thing, but neither 8 feet people nor the northern neck like giraffe girls have that).

So don't be to hard in your judgement.

[Mr Jones]

Industry : Food

23 April 2004 | Filed under Industry : Food

Pasteurization

Pasteurization is a process of heat treating milk to kill bacteria. Although Louis Pasteur developed this technique for preserving beer and wine, he was not responsible for applying it to milk. That was done at the end of the 1800s as a temporary solution until filthy urban dairies could find a way to produce cleaner milk. But instead of cleaning up milk production, dairies used pasteurization as a way to cover up dirty milk. As milk became more mass produced, pasteurization became necessary for large dairies to increase their profits. So the public then had to be convinced that pasteurized milk was safer than raw milk. Soon raw milk consumption was blamed for all sorts of diseases and outbreaks until the public was finally convinced that pasteurized milk was superior to milk in its natural state.

Today if you mention raw milk, many people gasp and utter ridiculous statements like, You can die from drinking raw milk!" But the truth is that there are far more risks from drinking pasteurized milk than unpasteurized milk. Raw milk naturally contains healthy bacteria that inhibit the growth of undesirable and dangerous organisms. Without these friendly bacteria, pasteurized milk is more susceptible to contamination. Furthermore, modern equipment, such as milking machines, stainless steel tanks and refrigerated trucks, make it entirely possible to bring clean, raw milk to the market anywhere in the US.

Not only does pasteurization kill the friendly bacteria, it also greatly diminishes the nutrient content of the milk. Pasteurized milk has up to a 66 percent loss of vitamins A, D and E. Vitamin C loss usually exceeds 50 percent. Heat affects water soluble vitamins and can make them 38 percent to 80 percent less effective. Vitamins B6 and B12 are completely destroyed during pasteurization. Pasteurization also destroys beneficial enzymes, antibodies and hormones. Pasteurization destroys lipase (an enzyme that breaksdown fat), which impairs fat metabolism and the ability to properly absorb fat soluble vitamins A and D. (The dairy industry is aware of the diminished vitamin D content in commercial milk, so they fortify it with a form of this vitamin.)

We have all been led to believe that milk is a wonderful source of calcium, when in fact, pasteurization makes calcium and other minerals less available. Complete destruction of phosphatase is one method of testing to see if milk has been adequately pasteurized. Phosphatase is essential for the absorption of calcium.

From: Weston A. Price

[h90]

Industry : Food

23 April 2004 | Filed under Industry : Food

Pasteurization

Pasteurization is a process of heat treating milk to kill bacteria. Although Louis Pasteur developed this technique for preserving beer and wine, he was not responsible for applying it to milk. That was done at the end of the 1800s as a temporary solution until filthy urban dairies could find a way to produce cleaner milk. But instead of cleaning up milk production, dairies used pasteurization as a way to cover up dirty milk. As milk became more mass produced, pasteurization became necessary for large dairies to increase their profits. So the public then had to be convinced that pasteurized milk was safer than raw milk. Soon raw milk consumption was blamed for all sorts of diseases and outbreaks until the public was finally convinced that pasteurized milk was superior to milk in its natural state.

Today if you mention raw milk, many people gasp and utter ridiculous statements like, You can die from drinking raw milk!" But the truth is that there are far more risks from drinking pasteurized milk than unpasteurized milk. Raw milk naturally contains healthy bacteria that inhibit the growth of undesirable and dangerous organisms. Without these friendly bacteria, pasteurized milk is more susceptible to contamination. Furthermore, modern equipment, such as milking machines, stainless steel tanks and refrigerated trucks, make it entirely possible to bring clean, raw milk to the market anywhere in the US.

Not only does pasteurization kill the friendly bacteria, it also greatly diminishes the nutrient content of the milk. Pasteurized milk has up to a 66 percent loss of vitamins A, D and E. Vitamin C loss usually exceeds 50 percent. Heat affects water soluble vitamins and can make them 38 percent to 80 percent less effective. Vitamins B6 and B12 are completely destroyed during pasteurization. Pasteurization also destroys beneficial enzymes, antibodies and hormones. Pasteurization destroys lipase (an enzyme that breaksdown fat), which impairs fat metabolism and the ability to properly absorb fat soluble vitamins A and D. (The dairy industry is aware of the diminished vitamin D content in commercial milk, so they fortify it with a form of this vitamin.)

We have all been led to believe that milk is a wonderful source of calcium, when in fact, pasteurization makes calcium and other minerals less available. Complete destruction of phosphatase is one method of testing to see if milk has been adequately pasteurized. Phosphatase is essential for the absorption of calcium.

From: Weston A. Price

just forget that... just another fanatic.....

From beginning till the end, basically everything is wrong......

[ZZZ]

I’ve heard that if you take the milk from a cow and run it thru the normal pasteurization, homogenization process and feed it to the cows new borne calf, the calf will die after a short while.

The explanation was that the pasteurization process will destroy a number of necessary elements, especially enzymes that are necessary for absorption of essential nutrition.

Also the homogenization process makes the fat molecules so small they are absorbed into places they don’t belong and clog up the system.

Raw, clean, milk on the other hand is excellent nutrition.

[RamdomChances]

Mabye in more "advanced" countries with better, controled handling and storage facilities then fresh untreated milk would be an idea. Here it's hot humid with most farms not having any refidgeration. Unless you can get hold of any thats really fresh and by that I mean as it comes out of the cow and from a reputable dairy farm ( like mine for instance ) I would'nt bother

I’ve heard that if you take the milk from a cow and run it thru the normal pasteurization, homogenization process and feed it to the cows new borne calf, the calf will die after a short while.

The explanation was that the pasteurization process will destroy a number of necessary elements, especially enzymes that are necessary for absorption of essential nutrition.

Also the homogenization process makes the fat molecules so small they are absorbed into places they don’t belong and clog up the system.

Raw, clean, milk on the other hand is excellent nutrition.

The cows milk change coinsistance over the first few days to a week, you can't sell the milk during this time anyway but it is really imprtant to give it to the calfs as it has a lot of "stuff" in it. The calf wont nessesarly die if it does'nt get it but has a much greater chance of dieing.

We dont even feed the calfs on fresh milk but use powderd "calf starter" mixed with water, cheaper than feeding it the mothers. I dont know about the pasturised bits, never heard anything about it, but find it unlikly as long as it gets the first milk and a proper diet

[steveromagnino]

and is VERY bad for little kiddies.

what a load of boll@cks

ok, selective quoting there. Read what I wrote (in a sentence). I realise it is kind of long but bear with me:

'In NZ it used to be the case that the dairy industry would encourage milk as a substitute for breast feeding, which still is prevalent in Thailand and is VERY bad for little kiddies.'

Breast feeding less than 3 months and even less than 1 year is NOT good for little kiddies, and you really must be being paid a lot by the dairy industry to dispute this. I was under the impression this was common knowledge, but clearly not. Have a read here, and then see if this is a 'load of <deleted>'.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002448.htm

including the quote:

'the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that infants be fed breast milk or iron-fortified formula during the first twelve months of life. '

Inadequate iron, vitamin E, poor digestion, excessive protein..... but then again maybe you have some research on which you base your own opinion; share it and then we can all consider whether your snide comment has ANY merit at all.

Or maybe you want a comparative study...

'The study appears in the July issue of Pediatrics, being released Wednesday. A separate study in the same issue showed that children breast-fed longer than three months were less likely to become bed-wetters later in childhood. Researchers tracked 1,035 extremely low-birthweight infants born at 15 hospitals. About three-quarters of the babies received at least some breast milk in the hospital. One-quarter received only formula. Even when the researchers took education and income into account, the breast milk babies scored higher on tests of mental development when they were 18 months old than the formula babies.' etc

Finally words from an expert... I am sure you can do the search for yourself on google or whatever.... I want bother wasting too much more space:

'Most infant formula is made from cow's milk, said Dr. Sheela Geraghty, who directs a breast-feeding program at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center and was not involved in the study. "We're the only species on the planet that drinks another species' milk," Geraghty said. "Human milk is what these babies need."

[teletiger]

'Most infant formula is made from cow's milk, said Dr. Sheela Geraghty, who directs a breast-feeding program at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center and was not involved in the study. "We're the only species on the planet that drinks another species' milk," Geraghty said. "Human milk is what these babies need."

Not strictly true. Some people raise calves on goats milk.

Cheese made from raw milk is so much better, as to be a different product. Would lactose intolerance be as prevalent with raw milk?

Regards

[barryofthailand]

I was in Tesco the other day and on one of the daries milk bottle it stated partially pasturized, while all of the other daries states pasturized.

Barry