Landlord secretly sold the house I've been renting for 8 yrs. - what now?

[F4UCorsair]

Just did some more reading and it appears that you're satisfied he does own the place.

He may have been with the bank guy who looked through, or was already familiar with the place. Buying without inspecting would be a little unusual, although not unheard of.

[2beornot2be]

... I am just interested to know whether such a contract automatically ends at the moment of a legal transfer of ownership and if a landlord needs to inform the tenant of such change.

The answer to these questions should be somewhere in the Civil and Commercial Code. See if you can find them.

Maestro! Thank you ever so much for that most valuable link! This, finally, answers all of my questions in plain, easy comprehensible English. I'm forever in your debt.

Edited October 11, 2014 by 2beornot2be

[beachproperty]

Strange and inconsistent post all around!!!!

WHY??? Well first off OP changes the facts (or at least clarifies??) his original post 78 posts later!

BUT even stranger than that, is he wants us to believe (or so he has posted such) that someone bought the house he was renting 18 months prior and for 18 months NEVER received any rent nor did anything about it. C'mon ...get real!!!

I, for one, am surprised about any owner of Real Estate who would not either take possesion of the property or at the least notify the tenants of his new ownership immediately!!!

Oh well...I guess stranger posts have appeared on TV ............

[timewilltell]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

First: It's a question of good manners, isn't it?

Second: Talking open and fair could help to avoid a lot of problems and/or misunderstandings.

Third: Even without a written lease-contract, you have in fact a contract with certain mutual rights and obligations.

For instance: The Landlord can not just end that contract at his own will.

If he wants you to move out and you refuse, he needs to get a court order.

He might not want to do that in order to avoid an investigation into tax fraud.

I believe that's what happened in my case...

First - manners are in very short supply in Thailand especially towards foreigners.

Second - open straight talking is not their way - everything has to be shrouded in mystery or downright deceit, even the simplest things are almost never answered directly

Third - without a written contract between Thai and foreigner the Thai can and will do as he likes. Whatever rights and obligations you think you have you can forget - the rights at least although the obligations on you will naturally still apply. Even if you had a written contract the chances of success in enforcing your rights are not so great since everyone will favor the Thai. Unfortunately just how it is.

You are right he has to give you 1 months notice or scare you with s load of heavies turning up one day to threaten you - and the police will not assist by the way although they might laugh unless of course you know their names.

Why seek trouble - just smile and decline and find another place to stay - a pain but the best option because you can't fight everyone and the laws here are not anything like similar to wherever you came from.

[2beornot2be]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

First: It's a question of good manners, isn't it?

Second: Talking open and fair could help to avoid a lot of problems and/or misunderstandings.

Third: Even without a written lease-contract, you have in fact a contract with certain mutual rights and obligations.

For instance: The Landlord can not just end that contract at his own will.

If he wants you to move out and you refuse, he needs to get a court order.

He might not want to do that in order to avoid an investigation into tax fraud.

I believe that's what happened in my case...

First - manners are in very short supply in Thailand especially towards foreigners.

Second - open straight talking is not their way - everything has to be shrouded in mystery or downright deceit, even the simplest things are almost never answered directly

Third - without a written contract between Thai and foreigner the Thai can and will do as he likes. Whatever rights and obligations you think you have you can forget - the rights at least although the obligations on you will naturally still apply. Even if you had a written contract the chances of success in enforcing your rights are not so great since everyone will favor the Thai. Unfortunately just how it is.

You are right he has to give you 1 months notice or scare you with s load of heavies turning up one day to threaten you - and the police will not assist by the way although they might laugh unless of course you know their names.

Why seek trouble - just smile and decline and find another place to stay - a pain but the best option because you can't fight everyone and the laws here are not anything like similar to wherever you came from.

Thank you, timewilltell!

Unfortunately, your post pretty much sums it up. As you said, "open straight talking is not their way" and that seems to be the main problem for us foreigners to understand. It's a cultural matter, really.

The truth has finally emerged: My landlord got in serious financial trouble about 18 months ago due to some of her husband's shady business endeavors. She was forced to sell her family property (that she had planned to keep for her retirement) in order to avoid bankruptcy.

A "friend at hand" seized the opportunity to get hold of her house and finally bought it for a bargain (approximately 50% below market value). So, I feel rather sorry for the lady who tried to save her family. She's the real loser in this game.

A Thai will never be straight and open in such matters. It's all about losing face, family honor and admitting defeat.

As for my situation, I have no reason to complain other than feeling a bit uncomfortable.

Caught by total surprise, I was in a slight state of shock. But I believe I will be able to negociate a contract with my new landlord.

As for my "rights" in this case, after studying the actual code (follow link in Maestro's post), there's a simple answer: NIL.

Edited October 11, 2014 by 2beornot2be

[Travelman868]

Without a written contract things could be a lot worse. At least the new owner is giving you some time. Your best bet is to try to negotiate with the new owner and come to a happy medium. Your biggest bargaining point here is you are a good renter. Something landlords want more than anything. It puts you in a good position Good luck

Thai landlords/ladies are the world's worse. It does not matter if there is a contract or not. Do not expect to ever get damage deposit back as they will always

find something

[Naam]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

and why the utmost silly insinuation "tax evasion" referring to the demand "rent paid into bank account" indicating exactly the opposite?

I start smelling something fishy behind the scene. Tax evasion, maybe?

[2beornot2be]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

and why the utmost silly insinuation "tax evasion" referring to the demand "rent paid into bank account" indicating exactly the opposite?

I start smelling something fishy behind the scene. Tax evasion, maybe?

Some Thai people try to avoid taxes on rent income if there is no registered contract, especially with foreigners. That has been confirmed by Thai Immigration who observed that some landlords fail to register aliens because they fear being reported to the tax office. I was just wondering why my case was clouded in silence for such a long time.

[sandmonster]

Without a written contract things could be a lot worse. At least the new owner is giving you some time. Your best bet is to try to negotiate with the new owner and come to a happy medium. Your biggest bargaining point here is you are a good renter. Something landlords want more than anything. It puts you in a good position Good luck

Thai landlords/ladies are the world's worse. It does not matter if there is a contract or not. Do not expect to ever get damage deposit back as they will always

find something

Thats what I always read in TV. So after 3.5 years renting with no issues, i had to leave and was prepared and resigned to accept TV ferang gospel. Called the Thai landlady 1 month before and simply asked if I could miss the last month payment and use one of the 2 months deposit. She said no problem. Come leaving day, I wasnt quite ready to leave and stayed an extra 5 days. She said no problem. finally vacated and she said she would check the place over the next few days and return my deposit into my account minus final electric charges. 4 days later i got the final month deposit back minus 150bt electricity which was about right. she didnt even charge me the extra 5 days I overstayed. So there you go... TV folklore isnt gospel as usual lol. For every ferang that had rental issues there must be multiples like me but dont shout it out. I guess you only complain if you have problems.

[slipperx]

Without a written contract things could be a lot worse. At least the new owner is giving you some time. Your best bet is to try to negotiate with the new owner and come to a happy medium. Your biggest bargaining point here is you are a good renter. Something landlords want more than anything. It puts you in a good position Good luck

Thai landlords/ladies are the world's worse. It does not matter if there is a contract or not. Do not expect to ever get damage deposit back as they will always

find something

Thats what I always read in TV. So after 3.5 years renting with no issues, i had to leave and was prepared and resigned to accept TV ferang gospel. Called the Thai landlady 1 month before and simply asked if I could miss the last month payment and use one of the 2 months deposit. She said no problem. Come leaving day, I wasnt quite ready to leave and stayed an extra 5 days. She said no problem. finally vacated and she said she would check the place over the next few days and return my deposit into my account minus final electric charges. 4 days later i got the final month deposit back minus 150bt electricity which was about right. she didnt even charge me the extra 5 days I overstayed. So there you go... TV folklore isnt gospel as usual lol. For every ferang that had rental issues there must be multiples like me but dont shout it out. I guess you only complain if you have problems.

Lucky Ol You - Simply Read (sic)

[ableguy]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

First: It's a question of good manners, isn't it?

Second: Talking open and fair could help to avoid a lot of problems and/or misunderstandings.

Third: Even without a written lease-contract, you have in fact a contract with certain mutual rights and obligations.

For instance: The Landlord can not just end that contract at his own will.m

If he wants you to move out and you refuse, he needs to get a court order.

He might not want to do that in order to avoid an investigation into tax fraud.

I believe that's what happened in my case...

Most of what you have written here is none sense, wishful thinking. Manners count for nothing ( you cannot be serious on this point )

Move out move on I your life.

[jsflynn603]

You have the upper hand. Why? Because you are a reliable tenant who pays his bills. This is the only thing a landlord wants, and good tenants are not really all that common. The new owner knows this.

But consider this: I own income property (apartments) and have a fairly loose rule that I call the 7 year rule. Simply said apartments generally get pretty shopworn by the seventh year. Thus I anticipate a fair amount of renovation. If you've been there 8 years, most likely your place has become a bit shop-worn too. This could be a bargaining chip.

You have some time. Search for a replacement property. You may find one that you like better. Consider the fair market value. If you've been there a long time without an increase, one is likely due. Consider those years of below market rent payments a gift. It may feel like a slap in the face but it simply may be normal and fail business.

If you find one as good, at a better deal, use it to dicker. This time demand a good contract.

Back in 1982 I purchased a triplex. I had a renter family who was happy with the rent they paid and I too was happy. In the early '80s inflation hit seriously (we're talking 15%+ a year) and several years had gone by with no increases. I thought, well, my mortgage was fixed so why increase it? But then taxes rose and water prices rose (landlords pay water bills generally in the US). So I changed the rent from $180 to $235. The couple was livid, absolutely livid and made it vociferously apparent. I thought about it and considered that the going rate on that unit was now about $300, so I informed them that I had changed my mind and that the new rent was to be $300. They moved, and within a few weeks I had new tenants happy to pay $300. I learned a lesson from that and realized that I had done a dis-service to that tenant. I should have raised the rent each year to appropriate market value, probably by $30 increments. Had I done this the tenant might have asked his boss for a raise and it wouldn't have come as a shock. I, in fact, was giving the tenant a gift, but the tenant was unaware of this. From then on, I raise rents to be about 10% below market value for established tenants and to market value for new tenants. If a tenant is a superb one, on occasion I gift some hundred dollar bills and make it clear why I'm doing so. I'd say that my landlord/tenant relationship is pretty good.

The moral of this story is: If you've been renting below market value, realize it was a mis-guided gift. Then reset your mind to fair market value and use your prior landlord as a reference and go dicker and either move or use another offer to dicker with the new landlord.

Good luck.

[2beornot2be]

You have the upper hand. Why? Because you are a reliable tenant who pays his bills. This is the only thing a landlord wants, and good tenants are not really all that common. The new owner knows this.

But consider this: I own income property (apartments) and have a fairly loose rule that I call the 7 year rule. Simply said apartments generally get pretty shopworn by the seventh year. Thus I anticipate a fair amount of renovation. If you've been there 8 years, most likely your place has become a bit shop-worn too. This could be a bargaining chip.

You have some time. Search for a replacement property. You may find one that you like better. Consider the fair market value. If you've been there a long time without an increase, one is likely due. Consider those years of below market rent payments a gift. It may feel like a slap in the face but it simply may be normal and fail business.

If you find one as good, at a better deal, use it to dicker. This time demand a good contract.

Back in 1982 I purchased a triplex. I had a renter family who was happy with the rent they paid and I too was happy. In the early '80s inflation hit seriously (we're talking 15%+ a year) and several years had gone by with no increases. I thought, well, my mortgage was fixed so why increase it? But then taxes rose and water prices rose (landlords pay water bills generally in the US). So I changed the rent from $180 to $235. The couple was livid, absolutely livid and made it vociferously apparent. I thought about it and considered that the going rate on that unit was now about $300, so I informed them that I had changed my mind and that the new rent was to be $300. They moved, and within a few weeks I had new tenants happy to pay $300. I learned a lesson from that and realized that I had done a dis-service to that tenant. I should have raised the rent each year to appropriate market value, probably by $30 increments. Had I done this the tenant might have asked his boss for a raise and it wouldn't have come as a shock. I, in fact, was giving the tenant a gift, but the tenant was unaware of this. From then on, I raise rents to be about 10% below market value for established tenants and to market value for new tenants. If a tenant is a superb one, on occasion I gift some hundred dollar bills and make it clear why I'm doing so. I'd say that my landlord/tenant relationship is pretty good.

The moral of this story is: If you've been renting below market value, realize it was a mis-guided gift. Then reset your mind to fair market value and use your prior landlord as a reference and go dicker and either move or use another offer to dicker with the new landlord.

Good luck.

Thank you so much! I agree with what you say and very much appreciate your - a landlord's - point of view. I believe that there should always be room for talks. Things in live can change very fast, no matter how much we try to plan our future. Then we need to talk. That's what has been missing here, but, as I pointed out in my former post, there's a cultural barrier involved. I am going to show my new Landlord that I respect him and that I am willing to agree to a fair solution for both sides.

[timewilltell]

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

and why the utmost silly insinuation "tax evasion" referring to the demand "rent paid into bank account" indicating exactly the opposite?

I start smelling something fishy behind the scene. Tax evasion, maybe?

You think the fact the money is paid by not a bank account means that the income is declared? Ha ha this is Thailand not the USA. Cheating the taxman is practiced by everyone except those with a regular job paid by a company and that is only because it benefits the company as an offset. The rich just don't pay and the tax office don't follow up.

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