Ensure 'fair probe' for suspects, says Thein Sein

Equalizer · October 11, 2014

Hello all... I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition (http://goo.gl/FD66Th) to get the UK gov to independently investigate David and Hannah's murders and I need a favour from you wonderful people... The numbers of signees are slowing down somewhat, but we need to keep going - if we reach 100k (currently just over 50k) we can ask for it to be discussed in Parliament.

Anyway trying it tap into new channels outside if what we are currently hitting, so we've just set up a Twitter account - if you have twitter can you pls follow us and give us a share/retweet? Many thanks... We are at: @ThailandJustice

Thank you

You may want to add. The petition page where you sign is defaulted in Thai language. So if you do want to do this scroll down to the very bottom of the page and there is a language box drop down menu. Here you can change it to English.

The language is defaulted to the country you are currently in from which you accessed the site!!!!

You may want to add. The petition page where you sign is defaulted in Thai language. So if you do want to do this scroll down to the very bottom of the page and there is a language box drop down menu. Here you can change it to English.

Edited October 11, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

Hello all... I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition (http://goo.gl/FD66Th) to get the UK gov to independently investigate David and Hannah's murders and I need a favour from you wonderful people... The numbers of signees are slowing down somewhat, but we need to keep going - if we reach 100k (currently just over 50k) we can ask for it to be discussed in Parliament.

Anyway trying it tap into new channels outside if what we are currently hitting, so we've just set up a Twitter account - if you have twitter can you pls follow us and give us a share/retweet? Many thanks... We are at: @ThailandJustice

Thank you

It does not require 100k people to request to have a matter raised in Parliament. The procedures are laid out in the URL below. As a poster has already mentioned HMG does not have jurisdiction to independently investigate crimes against a UK citizen in a foreign country. I believe UK can request to provide assistance or a review of an investigation.

http://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/have-your-say/petitioning/

EDIT: Does the petition organiser have the permission of the victims families for this activity?

The value of MPs is that they can push the government to make representations to the Thai Foreign Ministry. Anyone's local MP can raise it with the government either in Parliament or in writing. No need for a petition.

UK government guidelines for British police investigating murders of UK citizens abroad are here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

Since both victims' bodies were repatriated autopsies must have been done as a legal obligation and, since they were both resident in England (not in Scotland or N. Ireland) inquests to establish the cause of death are also a legal obligation. The coroner may ask UK police to assist with investigations. Section 5 says that British police can conduct an investigation if requested by the foreign government, or importantly if:

"Relatives request UK police to assist in establish the circumstances surrounding the death of a British national. This often arises where the family is dissatisfied with the investigation overseas, and seeks in respect of best practice in murder investigation. It is important to remember that UK police have no power to conduct investigations overseas and the primacy of the relevant country must be respected."

So, if the families were to request it the British police could investigate at least evidence that is in the UK, i.e. autopsy reports whatever information is with friends of David and Hannah and the notorious Mr McAnna, if he ever resurfaces. If he is in Italy, Italian police would no problem letting British police fly out to interview him.

If British police suspected Sean of being involved in the murders, they could extradite him to the UK to face trial under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act. If they believe he has committed sexual offences abroad, he could be extradited to the UK under the 2003 Sexual Offences Act.

Only one was British apparently. The other was from Jersey I believe. You may need to start another petition for the Channel Islands. I suspect both petitions will have the same result - absolutely zero effect on either Government.
As hard as it is to say this - the British Government has a lot more on its hands - think ISIS,home-grown terrorism, Ebola and Ukraine crisis - than to worry about the "small' people who lost their lives in a far off country.

While it is a very sad situation for all concerned, including the Myanmar gentlemen, don't hold you breath that much will happen. If it does and the mafia etc are exposed and the son of the boss is charged - great - but as I said don't hold your breath.

50 000 signatures later and not even a public statement from the ambassador.

No petition that I've clapped eyes on for the three Burmese lads, and a neighbouring country with a much more precarious relationship with Thailand has stepped forward and made their presence known. Not only, but they are sending a delegation. Impressed with myanmar's no bullshit approach. The leader of the military a coup and a self imposed "government" is suitably losing face. This is inspiring.

World leaders take note of what you all think is a "pseudo-military regime." "Military rule-lite".

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

superal · October 11, 2014

And in the background of this video , did you see the police setting off on their mopeds without crash helmets . If you cannot practice what you preach, what's the

point of trying to enforce it . Must have been seen nationwide .

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

chooka · October 11, 2014

love the smug contented grin on his face. Strutting around like a peacock thinking to himself who care about or what these stupid Burmese think. if we want to stich someone up on murder charges we will. He is so proud of the job his police have done and rewarded them for their corruption.

Posts like this will only alienate prayut from this investigation. And he is one guy you want to have on board.

People need to stop with the senseless criticism . It does not help at all. Constructive thoughts suggestions and ideas, would do a lot too keep this thing moving.

Alienating all the people you need will not.

He is 100% backing the BIB in the way they have gone about this farce and rewarded them for thier stuff ups. He has alienated himself when he took the side of the screw ups over the victims.

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

love the smug contented grin on his face. Strutting around like a peacock thinking to himself who care about or what these stupid Burmese think. if we want to stich someone up on murder charges we will. He is so proud of the job his police have done and rewarded them for their corruption.
Posts like this will only alienate prayut from this investigation. And he is one guy you want to have on board.
People need to stop with the senseless criticism . It does not help at all. Constructive thoughts suggestions and ideas, would do a lot too keep this thing moving.

Alienating all the people you need will not.

He is 100% backing the BIB in the way they have gone about this farce and rewarded them for thier stuff ups. He has alienated himself when he took the side of the screw ups over the victims.

Chooka! Nail. Head.

Good day !

Krenjai · October 11, 2014

Why would Sean lie about his cut saying it came from a motorbike accident? Why did he not wash off the blood on his guitar? Why was he allowed to leave Thailand on the same day? How did they manage to do a DNA test on him within 24 hours? What about this employee at the AC bar who helped him to wash off a lot of blood on his body, arms, legs & face? Why was he chased & targeted by Mon & Co.?

It is all very very very obvious, he was an (unwanted) witness of the attacks, got in the way and got cut! Very very very simple! He knows or partially knows who did it. He holds the key and therefore needed to be eliminated or shipped out on the next plane. The guy is a fruitcake with blood on his hands and the only true thing he said so far is: " I know you (David) tried to save her".

I would personally start looking for the NO DNA guy who happens to be the son of Mon & Brother (Mayor of Koh Tao). Forget the (manipulated) CCTV, get the DNA of this NO DNA guy!

I repeat, GET THE DNA OF THE NO DNA guy!

Edited October 11, 2014 by Krenjai

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Caught us out! Just another conspiracy right ?

We re all just having a laugh.....555555

Joe Black · October 11, 2014

C'mon Steve....your trying to talk sense to the posse as they saddle up their horses and load there weapons..they are not interested in facts..they just want the Thai police held responsible.. cause its their fault ..

Any logically fact is distorted into something that suits their argument and they run with it...best just to let them go..

bertty · October 11, 2014

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

bertty · October 11, 2014

C'mon Steve....your trying to talk sense to the posse as they saddle up their horses and load there weapons..they are not interested in facts..they just want the Thai police held responsible.. cause its their fault ..

Any logically fact is distorted into something that suits their argument and they run with it...best just to let them go..

Do you have any facts then ?

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

C'mon Steve....your trying to talk sense to the posse as they saddle up their horses and load there weapons..they are not interested in facts..they just want the Thai police held responsible.. cause its their fault ..

Any logically fact is distorted into something that suits their argument and they run with it...best just to let them go..

Yes, you are probably right Joe.

I think I'll let them live with their fantasies and try not to spoil their game of 'Sherlock Holmes (collectively) comes to the wrong conclusion'!

I've proved my point now and have un-followed this topic.

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!

wackybacky · October 11, 2014

Hello all... I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition (http://goo.gl/FD66Th) to get the UK gov to independently investigate David and Hannah's murders and I need a favour from you wonderful people... The numbers of signees are slowing down somewhat, but we need to keep going - if we reach 100k (currently just over 50k) we can ask for it to be discussed in Parliament.

Anyway trying it tap into new channels outside if what we are currently hitting, so we've just set up a Twitter account - if you have twitter can you pls follow us and give us a share/retweet? Many thanks... We are at: @ThailandJustice

Thank you

From the above: I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition to get the UK gov to independently investigate ...

From the UK Embassy -- Bangkok website:

What the FCO and British consulate can’t do

The FCO and British consulate won’t be able to:

get someone out of prison or detention

help someone get special treatment

offer legal advice, start legal proceedings or investigate a crime

Yep, they can't come out here and start investigating a crime, but I do believe that only means if a British citizen is implicated as a perpetrator. However, they do have a right to do their own investigation (albeit limited) if their citizens are 'victims'.

I am sure that lot only pertains to Brits who are locked up.

There is nothing stopping the British police from working with the Burmese lawyers to help establish guilt or innocence of the two currently charged with the murder of said 'British' victims. Mainly because they need to establish the right people have been caught and that there is no longer a danger of further attacks on their subjects travelling to KT.

The British police have DNA samples from Hannah's body, and all is needed now is the Burmese lawyers to supply them with DNA samples from the two accused, which they have the right to collect.

If the Thai authorities attempt to block this in any way, that is a complete admission of guilt that they have tampered evidence to convict innocent people.

Even if these two met their demise, it is illegal for the Thai authorities to cremate them.... There must be the option under international law for their bodies to become property of the Burmese consulate for reparation if desired by their families.

So this is not over by a long way.... In the event of these two also dying while in custody, the RTP and Thailand in general are even further in the hole.

They are already on a knife edge facing possible international sanctions and being scrutinised by many for their human rights abuses of migrant workers, and they are playing right into their hands. They don't realise the economic impact of sanctions, and if they get imposed can (and usually do) don't get lifted for up to and beyond 20 years.

Edited October 11, 2014 by wackybacky

minikev · October 11, 2014

It seems the picking on JTJ has now turned to Sichon steve. An OPEN mind is a good thing to have when discussing a case that no one on here has first hand knowledge about. It appears that there are huge holes in this investigation but then we still don't have all the facts. I don't believe anyone on here has been privy to reading the 850 page document., or was a witness to the crime so surely keeping an OPEN mind whilst studying the snippets of evidence we are given. I want justice for David and Hannah like everyone and I think keeping this discussion is helping to do that. However I think that some people seem to resort to childish name calling and bullying when a different view is offered. That can only be negative. All views should be accepted and discussed so long as they are respectable.

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

It seems the picking on JTJ has now turned to Sichon steve. An OPEN mind is a good thing to have when discussing a case that no one on here has first hand knowledge about. It appears that there are huge holes in this investigation but then we still don't have all the facts. I don't believe anyone on here has been privy to reading the 850 page document., or was a witness to the crime so surely keeping an OPEN mind whilst studying the snippets of evidence we are given. I want justice for David and Hannah like everyone and I think keeping this discussion is helping to do that. However I think that some people seem to resort to childish name calling and bullying when a different view is offered. That can only be negative. All views should be accepted and discussed so long as they are respectable.

Thanks for that!

However, you needn't worry about me as I can more than handle myself and give better than I take.

I get the impression that amongst the joviality (usually at my expense which bothers me (not)) they maybe are taking in some of my points of argument. In the case where they are not they are simply clutching at straws now and not making a very good job of it!!

Ho hum!

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Number 3 · October 11, 2014

It seems the picking on JTJ has now turned to Sichon steve. An OPEN mind is a good thing to have when discussing a case that no one on here has first hand knowledge about. It appears that there are huge holes in this investigation but then we still don't have all the facts. I don't believe anyone on here has been privy to reading the 850 page document., or was a witness to the crime so surely keeping an OPEN mind whilst studying the snippets of evidence we are given. I want justice for David and Hannah like everyone and I think keeping this discussion is helping to do that. However I think that some people seem to resort to childish name calling and bullying when a different view is offered. That can only be negative. All views should be accepted and discussed so long as they are respectable.

Thanks for that!

However, you needn't worry about me as I can more than handle myself and give better than I take.

I get the impression that amongst the joviality (usually at my expense which bothers me (not)) they maybe are taking in some of my points of argument. In the case where they are not they are simply clutching at straws now and not making a very good job of it!!

Ho hum!

bertty · October 11, 2014

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!

Yeah I reckon if they show that picture in court and some clown says 'its just a scratch on his neck' and it gets pointed out its actually his arm. Then said clown would be instructed to keep his mouth shut from then on.

BTY, Let us have your knowledge of what torture should be like. By that I mean proper torture, not just giving someone a kicking. You seem to be an expert in so many fields.

JohnTrove · October 11, 2014

Hello all... I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition (http://goo.gl/FD66Th) to get the UK gov to independently investigate David and Hannah's murders and I need a favour from you wonderful people... The numbers of signees are slowing down somewhat, but we need to keep going - if we reach 100k (currently just over 50k) we can ask for it to be discussed in Parliament.

Anyway trying it tap into new channels outside if what we are currently hitting, so we've just set up a Twitter account - if you have twitter can you pls follow us and give us a share/retweet? Many thanks... We are at: @ThailandJustice

Thank you

Good luck and all the best to your good work.
We need all the outside (international) help we can get, as the situation within Thailand is hopeless. The Chief of Police has declared the perfect arrest, the Prime Minister said he will give awards to the Police team, the Thai media is censored, the country is under martial law, the British Ambassador is acting very coy and his words have been be twisted by the Govt-friendly press, the Myanmese Govt doesn't want to be in the spotlight considering their own poor human rights record, and, unfortunately, many Thais do not care much about the plight of Burmese people.

Your petition can be accessed today, but the Thai authorities can block the website any time they like, so, for those in Thailand, hurry.

Thanks for your continued support everybody

SICHONSTEVE · October 11, 2014

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!

Yeah I reckon if they show that picture in court and some clown says 'its just a scratch on his neck' and it gets pointed out its actually his arm. Then said clown would be instructed to keep his mouth shut from then on.

BTY, Let us have your knowledge of what torture should be like. By that I mean proper torture, not just giving someone a kicking. You seem to be an expert in so many fields.

In my defence, once my eyes fixated on that terrible wound all I got was a momentary glimpse of the picture as I had to immediately turn away such was the severity of that scratch it instantly turned my stomach over!

I am not an expert in any said fields - just guilty of doubting that they were in fact tortured as this evidence is overwhelmingly unconvincing and lacking in any substance!

JLCrab · October 11, 2014

From post #140 above: Yep, they can't come out here and start investigating a crime, but I do believe that only means if a British citizen is implicated as a perpetrator. However, they do have a right to do their own investigation (albeit limited) if their citizens are 'victims'.

This is often true of more complex cases, such as the 2008 murders of Ben and Catherine Mullany on their honeymoon in Antigua. Following a lengthy inquiry extensively supported by the Metropolitan and South Wales Police, two Antiguan nationals, Avie Howell and Kaniel Martin, were convicted of their murder. This investigation came about as a result of request for assistance by the Antiguan government for the expertise of British Police and at a significant financial cost to the British taxpayer

From: http://www.open.ac.uk/research/main/news/international-co-operation-crucial-for-solving-crimes-against-britons-abroad

Robby nz · October 11, 2014