Sex Tourism

[markt]

1. The bar owner fills the bar up with women so that he/she can profit from the bar fines.

2. The bar owner fills the bar up with women so that he/she can profit from the beer sales that will be earned from the customers drawn in.

Now, which one of these best decribes Soi Yodsak?

[britmaveric]

1. The bar owner fills the bar up with women so that he/she can profit from the bar fines.

2. The bar owner fills the bar up with women so that he/she can profit from the beer sales that will be earned from the customers drawn in.

Now, which one of these best decribes Soi Yodsak?

Neither

[tasasc]

One aspect that doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is the practice of "buying out" women from the bar when they stop working there. I doubt that the employer of a waitress, receptionist or investment banker would expect compensation if she left the job to live with a farang, so why does it happen in a bar?

It reduces the woman to the level of a chattel (even if she gets a cut of the fee), and IMO this puts the bar owner firmly in the pimp category.

[Lacoste]

One aspect that doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is the practice of "buying out" women from the bar when they stop working there. I doubt that the employer of a waitress, receptionist or investment banker would expect compensation if she left the job to live with a farang, so why does it happen in a bar?

It reduces the woman to the level of a chattel (even if she gets a cut of the fee), and IMO this puts the bar owner firmly in the pimp category.

If you read through the thread you will find it's been discussed on a number of pages.

I agree with you though.

The prostitutes reduced themselves to chattel when they decided to whore themselves out though IMHO. No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

[kerryk]

in the "western" world is there a concept like a "bar fine" ?

if not , how can you take a "western" concept such as "pimping" and attempt to apply it to a culture here ? I think you chose the word "pimp" for its emotional value because maybe "facilitator" does not evoke the same connatations . wishing to be provocative I would think.

Bar fines are quite common in the US although they are called different names. There are thousand of high mileage strip clubs where one pays for the use of a dancer by the hour in VIP rooms. The fees are split between the club and the dancer. If you want to take the dancer out of the club you pay her house fees for the night although most of the time she waits till the end of her shift. There are numerous websites that quote the prices for in the club and outside of the club sex in various clubs.

I would imagine that there is a far greater amount of sex tourism in the US than in Thailand but it is called a business trip or a convention.

The US used to get the majority of the Arab business because they traditionally like blond women. Recently since the Arabs are feeling uncomfortable in the US Thailand has picked up their business.

Every time Tampa, Los Vegas or Miami is booked for a convention the local clubs gear up for a tremendous increase in business.

Even the Arab terrorists who did 911 were sex tourists spending their last days at Cheetah’s a strip club in Sarasota as they learned to fly the airplane.

[Lost in LOS]

this thread makes me feel so cheap, sort of like a pimp I guess. I have to admit in America I was a general contractor building homes and took 20% of all the workers. I want you to know that I never forced any of my subcontractors work, they all did it willingly, and I just made sure it turned out all right to the best of my ability. If a client wanted to hire one of my subcontractors to do something for them, I took a cut of that money [sort of like a bar fine] but I felt since I was housing and feeding my subcontractors [ so my clients could reap the benefits ] it was ok. guess the bar owners and I have something in common.

I just might go to walking street tonight and help some poor, more than willing, girl out and consequently the bar owner. thanks for being there so I am not forced to hit beach road and get mugged

Jimmy

[Kerryd]

No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

I'm sure they (Thai and farang) will all be very depressed to learn that you have no respect for them.

I go down tonight and do a survey, just to see how many really give a <deleted> what you think about them.

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. Try not to be too disappointed when you hear it.

[sbk]

Se. At home, it is not a respectable job or career or business to own so why do they think that transplanting it to Asia makes it respectable? And what do they tell their friends and family back home?

I think I may have read that you are originally from Australia, if I'm wrong sorry. Brothels and prostitution have been legal in NSW for about 10 years now and is not considered illegal by any means. To answer your question, the buyers of bars here are hardly transplanting anything, they buy the bars off other Thais willing to make a killing off the key money they get. Buying existing businesses is hardly "transplanting".

By the way where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

Prostitution is also legal in the US in Nevada. I think the point the poster is trying to make is the women involved in prostitution in Thailand are exploited and the women involved in prostitution in the US and Australia are not exploited because there are other employment opportunities available to them to make $100,000 per year with a grade school education.

I know a few prostitutes from Australia and a few from the US and they are not the brightest ladies on the planet. I have not been able to figure out what jobs they would do beyond serving a hamburger and a beer. Of course there are exceptions to this but I have not met them.

But there is a big difference between prostitution in Western countries and Thailand.

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

This is not true in the West. In the West despite the movie “Pretty lady” the girls want to make money, money and more money. Money is the end game.

Actually, no I am American and my point wasn't about what the prostitutes or their families think of being prostitutes but what Farang owners of bars that offer girls families think. Regardless of who does it, it is not considered an honorable or respectable business in the US, so please, lets not statrt on "so and so owned a strip club back home" because that isn't the point. So, what makes it a respectable business in Thailand? Do these farang bar owners tell their mom and dad back home what they do, all of it?

Just curious

[tourleadersi]

Se. At home, it is not a respectable job or career or business to own so why do they think that transplanting it to Asia makes it respectable? And what do they tell their friends and family back home?

I think I may have read that you are originally from Australia, if I'm wrong sorry. Brothels and prostitution have been legal in NSW for about 10 years now and is not considered illegal by any means. To answer your question, the buyers of bars here are hardly transplanting anything, they buy the bars off other Thais willing to make a killing off the key money they get. Buying existing businesses is hardly "transplanting".

By the way where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

Prostitution is also legal in the US in Nevada. I think the point the poster is trying to make is the women involved in prostitution in Thailand are exploited and the women involved in prostitution in the US and Australia are not exploited because there are other employment opportunities available to them to make $100,000 per year with a grade school education.

I know a few prostitutes from Australia and a few from the US and they are not the brightest ladies on the planet. I have not been able to figure out what jobs they would do beyond serving a hamburger and a beer. Of course there are exceptions to this but I have not met them.

But there is a big difference between prostitution in Western countries and Thailand.

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

This is not true in the West. In the West despite the movie “Pretty lady” the girls want to make money, money and more money. Money is the end game.

Actually, no I am American and my point wasn't about what the prostitutes or their families think of being prostitutes but what Farang owners of bars that offer girls families think. Regardless of who does it, it is not considered an honorable or respectable business in the US, so please, lets not statrt on "so and so owned a strip club back home" because that isn't the point. So, what makes it a respectable business in Thailand? Do these farang bar owners tell their mom and dad back home what they do, all of it?

Just curious

Its probably the annonymity that doing it out here in Thailand offers. There is very little fear of being caught and locked up, so no one at home will find out about it. Also it is highly unlikely that an 'old friend' might just call in and rumble you at work. I'm sure many owners tell everyone back home that they 'own a bar' and most listeners who have little or no experience of Thailand would take that at face value.

It doesn't make it respectable to the falang, but the above does make it consequence free. I think some people would quickly choose to live life a little differently if they suddenly became 'free from consequence.'

There are also so many people doing it that it becomes legitamised. I wonder how much of a hard time the first farang bar owner in Thailand took? I should imagine he was frowned upon by the local population, despised by other Thai bar owners and had a mixed response from westerners. Times have changed...

[Lacoste]

No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

I'm sure they (Thai and farang) will all be very depressed to learn that you have no respect for them.

I go down tonight and do a survey, just to see how many really give a <deleted> what you think about them.

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. Try not to be too disappointed when you hear it.

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

[davethailand]

No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

I'm sure they (Thai and farang) will all be very depressed to learn that you have no respect for them.

I go down tonight and do a survey, just to see how many really give a <deleted> what you think about them.

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. Try not to be too disappointed when you hear it.

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

And vica versa i'd say.

[britmaveric]

No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

I'm sure they (Thai and farang) will all be very depressed to learn that you have no respect for them.

I go down tonight and do a survey, just to see how many really give a <deleted> what you think about them.

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. Try not to be too disappointed when you hear it.

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

I dare say most here have zero interest in what you have to say.

[icecubes]

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

John here.

Well if thats the case, then is ok to say this

I think your a bit of a Knob-head.

Have a nice day

[richardb]

business owners have no problems with you coming in and taking their staff away in the middle of their busiest periods ? This happens in bars all the time, and you get upset when they do something about it.

Not if the business owner is making dosh from the fines

Bars make their money off selling booze. They hire women to help sell/serve that booze.

If a bar loses its staff to cheap charlie tourists looking for cheap dates, who is going to sell/serve the booze ?

The ugly ones or the ones who do not go with customers whatever you offer the owner by way of a fine

The bar fine compensates the bar for the loss of the girl's services. As a result, she gets a portion of the fine, and doesn't get a cut in salary for missing that shift. The bar fine in NO WAY means the girl is going to have sex with you. That is a totally seperate arrangement between you and the girl.

I must be a very handsom man then cause no girl I have ever barfined has not........

Consenting adults do what adults want to do. Like all jobs you trade off lifestyle, cash, enjoyment, respect. security you bargins with what talents or power you have.

Richard

ps

I really do not think I have ever met a bad bargirl all the ones I have met and there have been a few were pure sweeties. Only met one bar owner and he was a good bloke.

[Thaipwriter]

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

It's a bit like having Erco back, but with better grammar

[kat]

Se. At home, it is not a respectable job or career or business to own so why do they think that transplanting it to Asia makes it respectable? And what do they tell their friends and family back home?

I think I may have read that you are originally from Australia, if I'm wrong sorry. Brothels and prostitution have been legal in NSW for about 10 years now and is not considered illegal by any means. To answer your question, the buyers of bars here are hardly transplanting anything, they buy the bars off other Thais willing to make a killing off the key money they get. Buying existing businesses is hardly "transplanting".

By the way where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

Prostitution is also legal in the US in Nevada. I think the point the poster is trying to make is the women involved in prostitution in Thailand are exploited and the women involved in prostitution in the US and Australia are not exploited because there are other employment opportunities available to them to make $100,000 per year with a grade school education.

I know a few prostitutes from Australia and a few from the US and they are not the brightest ladies on the planet. I have not been able to figure out what jobs they would do beyond serving a hamburger and a beer. Of course there are exceptions to this but I have not met them.

But there is a big difference between prostitution in Western countries and Thailand.

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

This is not true in the West. In the West despite the movie “Pretty lady” the girls want to make money, money and more money. Money is the end game.

Actually, no I am American and my point wasn't about what the prostitutes or their families think of being prostitutes but what Farang owners of bars that offer girls families think. Regardless of who does it, it is not considered an honorable or respectable business in the US, so please, lets not statrt on "so and so owned a strip club back home" because that isn't the point. So, what makes it a respectable business in Thailand? Do these farang bar owners tell their mom and dad back home what they do, all of it?

Just curious

I tried to stay away from this thread because I don't want to get sucked into an endless void. But since SBK started in on a similar point to KerryK, I'll finish it, particularly the comment about Western prostitutes and "money, money, money".

Of course prostitutes are in it for the "money, money, money" - why else would someone prostitute themselves: for the "honey, honey, honey"????? Please give me a break with your lame explanations and shallow comparisons.

Prostitutes in the West work from a contractual framework of labor practices, so of course you pay for a service at a set time and that is it - over. She or he does not expect you to "love her long time" or even to stick around a minute after you're done. They don't pretend to love you or even like you. It's a JOB for MONEY, and when the contractual deed is done, you pay and they leave. When the job is done, the job is done.

It is not like Thailand, where the scenario is one of paid girlfriend and less contractual. But as we all know, you WILL pay the money, money, money for the honey, honey, honey. The line between relationships and economic transactions is less defined here, especially in commercial sex work and love/marriage for sale.

One other thing: your last post to me was discussing the need for investment before labor law enforcements. I stand by my original comment: you need enforceable labor laws regardless of investments if you want to improve wages enough to attract a segment of the labor force away from commercial sex work and as hired love interests.

There has been plenty of investment in Thailand already in comparison to the rest of the region, and the numbers of freelance and commercial sex workers are increasing. For example, there are plenty of good, young, ethical doctors at Thailand's government hospitals, who are now jumping ship to work at "international" hospitals where they can fleece foreigners at 5-10 times the price.

Do you think they would be leaving in such large numbers if they were making more than 12-14,000 baht per month and working 60-90 hours a week, after medical school!!! And yes, the 30-baht scheme is part of this, but they were still making very little money before. There are plenty of examples of suppressed wages and unbearable labor conditions throughout Thailand. Simply attracting investment and business is not a guarantee of improving the livelihood of skilled and unskilled labor alike if there are no enforceable labor standards, full stop.

Edited July 26, 2006 by kat

[tavarich]

The troll has been well fed. Should we put him to bed now

[Thaipwriter]

Prostitutes in the West work from a contractual framework of labor practices, so of course you pay for a service at a set time and that is it - over. She or he does not expect you to "love her long time" or even to stick around a minute after you're done.

What about the escort agency girls?

Hot women available for dinner dates and anything else you want, had a female friend who worked in the scene for a year and she made plenty of money and was also recieving gifts and support from various regulars.

[Thaipwriter]

The troll has been well fed. Should we put him to bed now

Agreed, but nobody in authority seems to have noticed the troll bit yet.

The very best trolls do their business with getting labelled as trolls.

Jringo is a classic example.

[kat]

Well, if he is a troll, he's a good one in that he stimulates a lot of good discussion. Look at the size of this thread.

[Ling Kae]

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

And I have no interest in what you have to say. You better go have a tug boat now, goodnight.

[Lacoste]

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

Thanks for your input, your a real class act.

And I have no interest in what you have to say. You better go have a tug boat now, goodnight.

Whilst on the subject which is your favourite Go Go in Pattaya for Hip Hop. I like Peppermint.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=812880

This music is played in several Go Go's around Pattaya. Why would they play it if so many people hate it? If going by Peppermint A Go Go I would say it is quite popular as it is full everynight.

The other reason why I like it is because the girls look so sexy sliding up and down a pole to the hip hop tunes.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=813074

Anyhow must go, off down walking street tonight.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=813274

written by a western woman do gooder that really hasn't got a single clue about what Thai life and Thai people are all about. Is it any wonder we western men are sick of them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=818336

Gary, I drink in Pattaya bars most nights. I walk down all different sois and walking street too trying out different bars and clubs at my own will. A lot of the time ladies grab me off the street and pull me into their bars, gosh it can be demanding.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=76759&st=0

where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=824358

Thanks for turning up

[Ling Kae]

I have little to zero interest in what a bunch of Pattaya prostitutes or John's have to say.

Thanks for your input, your a real class act.

And I have no interest in what you have to say. You better go have a tug boat now, goodnight.

Whilst on the subject which is your favourite Go Go in Pattaya for Hip Hop. I like Peppermint.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=812880

This music is played in several Go Go's around Pattaya. Why would they play it if so many people hate it? If going by Peppermint A Go Go I would say it is quite popular as it is full everynight.

The other reason why I like it is because the girls look so sexy sliding up and down a pole to the hip hop tunes.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=813074

Anyhow must go, off down walking street tonight.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=813274

written by a western woman do gooder that really hasn't got a single clue about what Thai life and Thai people are all about. Is it any wonder we western men are sick of them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=818336

Gary, I drink in Pattaya bars most nights. I walk down all different sois and walking street too trying out different bars and clubs at my own will. A lot of the time ladies grab me off the street and pull me into their bars, gosh it can be demanding.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=76759&st=0

where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=824358

Thanks for turning up

Yep that's me and I live here and I enjoy life. What is your excuse for slanging off the very people that this thread needs input from? Is it that you don't want to hear the truth?

*Edit* I did not write the following, please get your facts right. "Thanks for your input, your a real class act. "

Edited July 26, 2006 by Ling Kae

[Kerryd]

No self respect and deserve little respect in return, same goes for the farang who frequent them.

I'm sure they (Thai and farang) will all be very depressed to learn that you have no respect for them.

I go down tonight and do a survey, just to see how many really give a <deleted> what you think about them.

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. Try not to be too disappointed when you hear it.

Well, I did go downtown tonight. Went to 3 different a-go-go's. Talked to a couple managers, one owner (another one was too drunk to understand), a couple of waitresses, about 7 dancers and 4 farangs.

NOT ONE of them gives a crap what you think about them, their jobs, the people they associate with or the people they make money from/spend money on !

The farangs I talked to in the bars all think you are a tosser, what ever that means (I'm not a Brit). Those were the polite ones. I can't type what the others said without getting a warning and having the post deleted.

Sorry I couldn't find anyone to support your view of the world. Judging from the most recent posts in this thread, not many here support it either.

Maybe it's one of those cases where you are right, and everyone else in every other place is wrong ?

What ever the case, have a great day eh !

[JRingo]

After 10,000 views 478 replies I think we have established the following:

1. That falang bar owners who collect barfines are Pimps or worse.

2. that sex tourism contributes to AIDS.

3. that sex is a dirty business.

4. that sex tourism is destroying the family life of Northern Thailand.

5. that many falang bar owners and customers don’t want to believe any of this.

[suiging]

After 10,000 views 478 replies I think we have established the following:

1. That falang bar owners who collect barfines are Pimps or worse.

2. that sex tourism contributes to AIDS.

3. that sex is a dirty business.

4. that sex tourism is destroying the family life of Northern Thailand.

5. that many falang bar owners and customers don’t want to believe any of this.

I think these were your views at the start of the thread. What we have established is that you do not wish to listen to any form of argument reasoned or not. A forum is a frank exchange of views in which all who take part have much to contribute. I enjoy the banter and find different points of view refreshing, you do not. Why do you bother ???

[splitlid]

After 10,000 views 478 replies I think we have established the following:

3. that sex is a dirty business.

errrrrr.....would have to disagree with you on this one.

maybe you should re-phrase that.

[Demodokos]

Definition

pimp

noun [C]

a man who controls prostitutes, especially by finding customers for them, and takes some of the money that they earn

Cambridge Dictionary

To be really pedantic - the thread started off by calling farang girlie bar owners pimps -

pimp ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pmp)

n.

One who finds customers for a prostitute; a procurer.

intr.v. pimped, pimp·ing, pimps

To serve as a procurer of prostitutes.

You might not like the negative connotations associated with the word - but you can't really argue that they are not!

We have 2 definitions here.

I don't think there are bar owners (at least farang ones) who controls or find customers for their girls. It seems that girls are free to say no to any cutomer, and free to stop working bar if they don't like to.

Maybe in some bar owned by thai people girls are forced to work. But if any farang bar owner would like to do the same, I guess he would face big problems.

In a definition, all words are importants. So "control girls", "find customers" don't match to farang bar owners.

For me, it is very clear: farang bar owners are not pimp or procurer.

PS: i'm not a farang bar owner, and I think I could not be one.

[Gary A]

You actually formed your opinion before this thread was ever started You are not going to change your mind regardless of what the majority think.

1. That falang bar owners who collect barfines are Pimps or worse.

Most of the farang bar owners are the ones being taken advantage of. The girls write their own ticket in many of those bars.

2. that sex tourism contributes to AIDS.

You could be correct if you are talking about Boyztown and the Hershey highway crew. I don't recall ever seeing needles passed around in a Go Go bar.

3. that sex is a dirty business.

The girls ALWAYS take a shower before having sex and normally give their customer a good scrubbing also.

4. that sex tourism is destroying the family life of Northern Thailand.

Northern Thai families depend on the money sent back by their children regardless of how they earn the money.

5. that many falang bar owners and customers don’t want to believe any of this.

If you want to make a small fortune in the bar business, you must start with a large fortune OR have a better mouse trap. It is possible to make money in the bar business but the percentage that fail is MUCH higher. Perhaps you would be happier in a muslim country where the women are stoned to death for having sex outside of marriage and the thieves have their hands cut off. As for myself, I believe nothing that I read and only about half of what I see.

[RamdomChances]

3. that sex is a dirty business.

Only if your doing it right