Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

[yougivemebaby]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Yup. Surely the defence lawyers have access to the accused?

I would love to see the defense lawyers and someone from the UK government go into the Samui jail with DNA test kits for the suspects. Along with a film crew. I would love to see the faces of the jailers and if they would allow the tests to be performed.

Someone grow some balls and GET IT DONE!

[Pattaya46]

I would presume the embassy itself has the right to take samples from the accused.

They are after all their own citizens.

Weird comment. Country/government do not "own" their citizens!

Don't know laws in Thailand or in your country, but in mine your body is kind of "private property" and even the Police need your authorization to get a DNA sample. You can refuse.

[chrisinth]

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When the cctv footage was inspected, I recall mention that 60 cameras would be checked. If there were any showing 'unwanted' suspects they would by now be destroyed. The small bits of footage released included one where 2 minutes was removed.

It should be requested by the Myanmar lawyers that a list of all cctv cameras be provided, and all previously inspected - original - footage be released into evidence. If there are any missing it would be further evidence of tampering.

DNA testing has almost certainly been compromised, so it should indeed be necessary to take fresh samples from anyone present at the crime scene that morning - to exclude them from suspicion.

Something is niggling at the back of my mind; wasn't mention made of a 70% DNA match? I can't seem to find where that originated, and doubt the percentage aspect but have heard of partial match. Was this pursued at all?

Perhaps the bar owners did provide samples and there was a partial match. That is when the son was suddenly a 'person of interest' (they put it a bit stronger than that...) and the veil came down.

I still don't understand the argument of this 'missing 2 minutes' of CCTV coverage.

As far as I am aware, this was released as a review, with several sections clipped as there was nothing to bore the viewers with, ie, nothing relevant to the enquiry.

Someone along the line has speculated that this has been a deliberate attempt to conceal the identity of a third party and this has caused wildfire amongst the social media circuits.

Of course, I could be absolutely wrong about that. As could the social media.

[eldragon]

Y in every report do they have to somewhere mention flocking tourists... Weird stuff. Mark Kent to little to late.... Let the justice process take its course.... What's that, suicide by days end. Sadly I fear their is no DNA to even be re tested. Release all the CCTV footage for a start. The airport CCTV footage would b handy also....

Most tourists I've spoken to are unaware of what's happened on the island.

[mihalis]

Why doesn't the lawyer release photos, of bruising and burns they suffered while being tortured ???? Really, first they own up, then, state, they were tortured to own up to killings, show the world the pics, not hard. bruising and burns from boiling water, dont heal that fast !!

[bruceybonus]

Weird comment. Country/government do not "own" their citizens!

Don't know laws in Thailand or in your country, but in mine your body is kind of "private property" and even the Police need your authorization to get a DNA sample. You can refuse.

It's not weird! It is you who does not understand the English language!

[Krenjai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766476-koh-tao-murders-police-chief-reconfirms-myanmar-migrant-workers-are-real-suspects/page-16#entry8515733

393 & 395 and possibly very close to the truth

Sean Mcanna, total fruitcake, party animal & drug addict, hang out with the AC & local gang Thai boys for about 18 months. If the story of the Canadian girls is true, and I do believe that, Mister Sean must have knowledge of these date rapes. Indeed he probably has knowledge of other date rapes that were never reported nor investigated.

On the fatal night Hannah may have been targeted by Sean and lured behind the rocks so the gang(bang) could take place. I say maybe because nobody knows at this moment in time YET. I believe David & Hannah did go separate ways earlier that night but also this cannot be confirmed as of YET.

Whatever happened, Sean got a cut THAT NIGHT and was helped to wash of his blood by a Thai employee of AC Resort. He was soaked in blood! If the cut happened days earlier, as stated by Sean, then why in the hell did he not wash of the blood of his guitar. It just doesn't fit. Sean did you wash your guitar already?

What happened after this is also not clear, but we do know he fled the island & Thailand with lightspeed. Of course he was threatened by Mon & Co about his involvement, knowledge and LOYALTY going forward.

I say it again, get the DNA of the people who refused to give DNA, and get this SEAN. He was there that night, he probably knows who did it, and possibly he was even involved!

SEAN MCANNA holds the key!

[wackybacky]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate.

Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom.

They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence.

Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals.

They have rights under international law.

I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years.

I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples.

I think you may have simplified things somewhat as foreign lawyers can only practice here if accepted by the Thai Law Society so proven knowledge of Thai law and the ability to read, write and speak Thai is a must.

Lawyers attached to embassies do not have an automatic right to anything. Yes demands can be made but do not have to be met. Foreign diplomats etc can make serious representation on behalf of their own nationals but have to remember they are in a foreign country with a different legal system and have no jurisdiction only the hope of diplomatic niceties.

You are slightly missing the point.

Why would the Myanmar Embassy attached to Thailand have lawyers that are not licensed to practice in the country they are attached to??? Especially when much of an embassy's work is pertinent to legal issues for its citizens in that country?

That doesn't make sense.

Why would the embassy lawyers already been given access to the main suspects (on demand of the Myanmar Embassy) if those lawyers are not within their jurisdiction?????

That equally doesn't make sense.

What does make sense is that the Myanmar lawyers are within their jurisdiction,and have a right under international diplomatic laws to have access to their citizens. Which is why they have already had access which would have been denied to them if the RTP could have done so.

Also I think you will find with a little study that embassies have a right of access to their nationals when in carceration no matter what reason. If thy send a lawyer, it can not be restricted. It is an international diplomatic human rights instrument. Especially among UN member countries.

I don't really want to get into silly legal arguments with you because I pretty much agree with most things you say on this crime and the way the whole thing has gone. You want to point out that it is not logical for an embassy to be using lawyers outside their jurisdiction... It doesn't make sense and that is why I have a problem with it.

However on a side note... I notice the prosecutor in his statement (which may be reaction to this demand) has seemingly dropped the DNA evidence from the evidence list.

Thawatchai said prosecutors would consider for indictment mainly the evidence in the case, including CCTTV footage from the crime scene and witness testimonies. The retraction of confession by suspects would not influence their decision to indict them, he added.

Now we all know the CCTV and witness testimony is flimsy at best.... but DNA evidence? That is iron clad in all legal cases usually. It is the convicting element every time it is used. Yet this prosecutor fails to mention it? How curious is that?

Looks to me that this could be an admission that the DNA evidence is about to lose all its credibility.

Edited October 12, 2014 by wackybacky

[jacky54]

Sean should probably be given honorary Thai citizenship for the way he was behaved so far

[JLCrab]

Re Post # 98 from US Embassy Bangkok website (edited):

Americans traveling or living in Thailand are subject to the laws of the Kingdom of Thailand. Please bear in mind that the Embassy is limited by jurisdiction in the assistance it can provide to Americans arrested in Thailand.

Although consular officers cannot serve as attorneys or give legal advice, they can provide a list of local attorneys and help you find legal representation.

A consular officer will do whatever he/she can to protect your legitimate interests and ensure that you are not discriminated against under local law

[catweazle]

Good to see that social media has made an impact and that something happens now to push things in the right direction, the commitment/good intentions in the article of officials involved however sounds flimsy at best...

[Suffinator]

Might have been useful if Mr. Kent and the Foreign Office found some balls and insisted upon it.

Yes and once again they could resist throwing in how wonderful tourism was doing.

[ScubaPhuket]

Some people seem oblivious to the fact that thailand is a member of the United Nations which has a number of tools available which can be used to persuade thailand to co-operate.

The IMF probably being the most important one to a developing nation.

[Artisi]

Great opportunity for Prayuth here. He can do the right thing and blame the culture of corruption on the previous administration.

Get everyone out in the chain of command who has been on the take and give both himself and the country a boost around the world.

Will he do it..??

No way Jose, too many influential "big noodles" in the way of the truth.

[JLCrab]

The IMF is an organization which -- along with the World Bank and IBRD -- is separate from the UN.

Edited October 12, 2014 by JLCrab

[Artisi]

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach

More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right.

Breaking the Thai law himself by NOT wearing a helmet. There is also a helmet law in the UK. Stupid man.

Looks like a B200 fine there plus the farang factor, lets call it a round B500.

[ScubaPhuket]

The IMF is an organization which -- along with the World Bank and IBRD -- is separate from the UN.

Wrong

Specialized agencies

Main article: List of specialized agencies of the United Nations

The UN Charter stipulates that each primary organ of the UN can establish various specialized agencies to fulfill its duties.^[87] Some of the best-known agencies are the International Atomic Energy Agency, the Food and Agriculture Organization, UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization), the World Bank, and the World Health Organization (WHO). The UN performs most of its humanitarian work through these agencies. Examples include mass vaccination programmes (through WHO), the avoidance of famine and malnutrition (through the work of the WFP), and the protection of vulnerable and displaced people (for example, by UNHCR).^[88]

^Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Always best to read before you make statements I find.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[rethaier]

The parents' should have instigated their own investigation prior to this fiasco.

However hindsight is 20/20.

Don't depend on the UK Government for anything they can't even issue passports in a timely user friendly manner.

And, IYO, exactly what could the parents accomplish without full access to the case files and evidence? Do you really think the RTP would allow them access. Your statement is not only naive it is disrespectful to the parents.

[Thai at Heart]

I would presume the embassy itself has the right to take samples from the accused.

They are after all their own citizens.

Weird comment. Country/government do not "own" their citizens!

Don't know laws in Thailand or in your country, but in mine your body is kind of "private property" and even the Police need your authorization to get a DNA sample. You can refuse.

A person can of course refuse. However, if the issue is whether a lawyer can request a sample, I would assume an embassy doesn't even have to request. I doubt the embassy can be refused access at any time to the detained people. If they want a sample all they have to do is ask,and the Thais cannot prevent it.

The detained people do not belong to the thais , but largely the embassy can reasonably access them any time they like.

I doubt the Thais can prevent the embassy doing what it likes.

[KOZMO]

The UK Forensic Science Service was shut down in 2012

Bring in the people from the U.S, CSI program the TV show; I'm sure it would be fairer than what is happening now!!!

The Thai police would sheet if the F.B.I. showed up!!!

[JLCrab]

The IMF is an organization which -- along with the World Bank and IBRD -- is separate from the UN.

Wrong

Specialized agencies

Main article: List of specialized agencies of the United Nations

The UN Charter stipulates that each primary organ of the UN can establish various specialized agencies to fulfill its duties.^[87] Some of the best-known agencies are the International Atomic Energy Agency, the Food and Agriculture Organization, UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization), the World Bank, and the World Health Organization (WHO). The UN performs most of its humanitarian work through these agencies. Examples include mass vaccination programmes (through WHO), the avoidance of famine and malnutrition (through the work of the WFP), and the protection of vulnerable and displaced people (for example, by UNHCR).^[88]

^Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Always best to read before you make statements I find.

Fine -- you're right. Then IMF will ride in to the rescue.

Edited October 12, 2014 by JLCrab

[NanLaew]

The DNA trail as it stands has no provenance thanks to the RTP handling of the investigation. Anything that the RTP claim as being DNA from either victim or suspect is totally unverifiable as such.

As far as I am aware, there's been no confirmation if the UK authorities were given permission to take their own DNA samples from the deceased after their bodies were repatriated. I would rather hope they did and kept it quiet out of respect for the victims and their families, unlike the very public and disgusting media circus that prevailed over here. Otherwise, the whole premise of having a 'proper' DNA test and analysis is a moot point and the UK authorities won't waste their time. The results will only confirm the questions that are already being asked rather than answering any of them.

If this happens, the case will be passed with a lot of fanfare to whatever passes for a 'special investigation' unit in Bangkok only to be lost in a bureaucratic paper shuffle. This will go on for as long as it can be financed by tourist dollars being spent in certain resorts on a certain island.

[hobz]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate.

Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom.

They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence.

Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals.

They have rights under international law.

I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years.

I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples.

And how will they get untampered dna from the crime scene? Do you even know what dna is and how dna tests work?

[allan michaud]

Hopefully this will happen but I have my doubts.

As for my countries Ambo to Thailand, he should be sacked for his disgraceful comment last week, calling the RTP investigation 'exemplary'.

[ScubaPhuket]

Hopefully this will happen but I have my doubts.

As for my countries Ambo to Thailand, he should be sacked for his disgraceful comment last week, calling the RTP investigation 'exemplary'.

Follow the story.

He already denied making that statement, it was just another RTP lie.

[huawei]

Some people seem oblivious to the fact that thailand is a member of the United Nations which has a number of tools available which can be used to persuade thailand to co-operate.

The IMF probably being the most important one to a developing nation.

If you saw how the IMF treated Thailand during the Asian Crisis, the loss of face, the complete lack of cultural awareness and the consequent upswing in the distain for foreigners they would be the last ones!

[6NS]

Christ could Mark Kent be any more of a spineless coward? His blog post and rhetoric up to know sounds exactly like all the Thai authorities telling us not to 'abuse' social media, or basically 'please shut up and stop spreading information we cant control' we wouldnt even be here right now with the Thai authorities in a panic if it wasnt for the pressure that has some from very solid evidence being shared by people!

As for the graphic images being spread around they were released by the Thai authorities!! Oh buy you dont criticize them do you Mr Kent?

How come the PM of Myanmar a country with one of the WORST humans rights records in the world can make a statement to help 2 of his citizens but neither the UK PM nor even the sodding ambassador to the nation can say anything when 2 Brits are killed!

Oh and did anyone see that he did a talk at Thammasat Uni just a week ago about the responsibility of using social media etc, this is right around the time when everything had been picking up traction on CSI LA etc, how very convenient....

https://twitter.com/KentBKK/status/517907219380064256

I agree, Kent is sick. Cought up in the,,,,,,,,,,,,,, they may kill me too thing.

[Rickster]

I think it shows little to no respect to the victims of this despicable crime, that people are still supposedly "flocking" to the island whilst the killers are still at large. Boycott the island until the REAL culprits are found 1. You are putting your own life at risk 2. You are supporting a mafia run corrupt organisation..... and lets face it, by all accounts, its not the first time either and most likely won't be the last so long as these thugs are left to roam freely!!

Edited October 12, 2014 by Rickster

[flyingdoc]

This whole saga is going from bad to worse.

[dieseldave1951]

funny i have a tourist now staying in the same guest house as me who came back fron KOH TAO only yesterday

and he said its very quiet not the flock as stated

just another scam trying to pulll the wool over our eyes

sum num naa they deserve all thats coming

Meanwhile, tourists continue to flock to Koh Tao under the watchful eye of tourist police and volunteers. The number of tourists is not high but it is still the low season, with strong ocean currents and monsoon rains.

Meanwhile.... this is the funniest part.Blaming lack of tourists on the time of year, monsoon and currents..... OK.

But even if they were actually 'flocking back'..... It's like rubbing tourist's noses in it..... 'HAHAHA.... but ya still coming back eh suckers.'