Real Estate Agents Fee Highway robbery

[DD13]

I believe Ive already explained (in simplicity) why US brokers earn their fees, brokering transactions is one of the worlds most lucrative occupations not because its easy but because its complex and valuable.

You get what you pay for and to obtain a skilled negotiator and quality services costs money, compensation provides the incentive and motivation to perform. Obviously the lower the compensation the lower the skill level of the individuals that will be attracted to that line of work.

This appears to be a huge glamorisation. Real estate agents are salesmen, just like car salesmen and washing machine salesmen. There's absolutely nothing special about their job or their talent.

No one forces sellers to hire a real estate broker, sellers have the choice, and if you believe you can obtain a quality service for your transaction with 1% then simply use those individuals that charge those fees or perform the service yourself.

All agents in the UK charge a low rate and the UK has a very active property market. Yet from what you are saying there should be no UK market as the agents there dont even get enough commission to advertise a property. Clearly something somewhere doesn't add up.

Absolutely fascinating, does your opinion come from experience, how many real estate transactions have you been a party to in your life? Do you understand some of the more esoteric aspects of brokering real estate such as discounting paper, wrapping mortgages, projecting and evaluating income streams for yield, the time value of money or the underwriting and analyses involved in structuring financing? Are you familiar with the technique to unwind a seller from a foreclosure proceeding while obtaining a non-recourse full satisfaction and discharge of the note and mortgage with no deficiency judgment from his lender; (that’s currently a very lucrative technical procedure to know in the US) I’m fascinated to know your background.

Certainty brokering real estate is much more technical than selling a washing machine I think you trying to get a rise out of me, to believe they involve a similar level of competence is honestly a foolish assumption.

Are you trying to convince..... "us"..... or...... "yourself ??

You're sounding...... "brainwashed"

The way that dodgy "pyramid" sales operators come across

Wake up "Pal" the American way isn't the......... "Be All to End All"........there's a whole world out there doing OK

In my considerable dealings with UK agents.......Most have the knowledge which you are referring to.......

In the UK there is a thing called........... "The Trade Description Act"......to protect clients

So they have to watch their "Ps & Qs"

Edited October 20, 2014 by DD13

[Beardog]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

[DD13]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

And your "story" says it all

What "Robert2006" says...... probably has a "some" merit to it..........

But these guys that are trading here as "agents".........are anything but.......probably just trying to get a visa......

If truth be known.....there should be a "commission war" here......and let the best man win...............

(Robert2006 should "set-up" and give them a "run for their money")..........if he is that good, he can list my property.....(which isn't currently on the market)

[TheCruncher]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

Just out of curiosity Beardog. Which area are you talking about and did you recently sold a 12 M Baht property ?

[Robert2006]

Mr. DD13, I find your comments pointless; I have merely explained the trade of brokering real estate from my perspective. Do you have any actual knowledge to pass on about the real estate trade?

I’ll give you my observation about UK real estate brokers; in the UK the standard real estate commission is 1%, the most talented, intelligent and motivated individuals will not participate in that trade. The cream of the crop minds do not focus on acquiring skills that generate that amount income.

[KittenKong]

I’ll give you my observation about UK real estate brokers; in the UK the standard real estate commission is 1%, the most talented, intelligent and motivated individuals will not participate in that trade. The cream of the crop minds do not focus on acquiring skills that generate that amount income.

It's certainly not often one sees the phrases "cream of the crop" and "real estate brokers" used in the same paragraph.

Selling property does not require any special skill beyond that of being a good salesman. That's why in many countries (including both here and the UK) anyone can become a real estate agent without any sort of training or knowledge or certification. If in doubt just go and look at the "cream of the crop" desperately trying to shift off-plan condos here.

[Robert2006]

I’ll give you my observation about UK real estate brokers; in the UK the standard real estate commission is 1%, the most talented, intelligent and motivated individuals will not participate in that trade. The cream of the crop minds do not focus on acquiring skills that generate that amount income.

It's certainly not often one sees the phrases "cream of the crop" and "real estate brokers" used in the same paragraph.

Selling property does not require any special skill beyond that of being a good salesman. That's why in many countries (including both here and the UK) anyone can become a real estate agent without any sort of training or knowledge or certification. If in doubt just go and look at the "cream of the crop" desperately trying to shift off-plan condos here.

The cream of the crop doesn’t sell off-plan condos in Thailand and they make more in a month than you will probably make this year with as you say merely the skills of a good salesman.

[KarenBravo]

I can't speak for the USA, but, in the UK all stages of buying, or selling can be done by the individual without the need of a broker.

That kind of tells me that there is not much skill in being an Estate Agent.

[Robert2006]

I can't speak for the USA, but, in the UK all stages of buying, or selling can be done by the individual without the need of a broker.

That kind of tells me that there is not much skill in being an Estate Agent.

I can tell you in the USA it is exactly the same anyone can buy or sell their property without the use of a real estate agent.

Everyone is also allowed to build their own home that kind of tells me there is not much skill involved in building a home.

[KarenBravo]

I can't speak for the USA, but, in the UK all stages of buying, or selling can be done by the individual without the need of a broker.

That kind of tells me that there is not much skill in being an Estate Agent.

I can tell you in the USA it is exactly the same anyone can buy or sell their property without the use of a real estate agent.

Everyone is also allowed to build their own home that kind of tells me there is not much skill involved in building a home.

False analogy (as you well know) and a very easily recognized "straw man". Be a bit more imaginative in your next reply.

After due diligence and the buyer and seller have agreed a price it's just paperwork which anyone can do.

[Robert2006]

I can't speak for the USA, but, in the UK all stages of buying, or selling can be done by the individual without the need of a broker.

That kind of tells me that there is not much skill in being an Estate Agent.

I can tell you in the USA it is exactly the same anyone can buy or sell their property without the use of a real estate agent.

Everyone is also allowed to build their own home that kind of tells me there is not much skill involved in building a home.

False analogy (as you well know) and a very easily recognized "straw man". Be a bit more imaginative in your next reply.

After due diligence and the buyer and seller have agreed a price it's just paperwork which anyone can do.

It’s called sarcasm. I can be a little more direct if its easier for you to understand. The paperwork anyone can do? Being about I'd say a million times more experienced than you in the field I would have to say if you seriously believe what you’ve said you are either uniformed or a have cognitive deficiency.

[KarenBravo]

I can't speak for the USA, but, in the UK all stages of buying, or selling can be done by the individual without the need of a broker.

That kind of tells me that there is not much skill in being an Estate Agent.

I can tell you in the USA it is exactly the same anyone can buy or sell their property without the use of a real estate agent.

Everyone is also allowed to build their own home that kind of tells me there is not much skill involved in building a home.

False analogy (as you well know) and a very easily recognized "straw man". Be a bit more imaginative in your next reply.

After due diligence and the buyer and seller have agreed a price it's just paperwork which anyone can do.

It’s called sarcasm. I can be a little more direct if its easier for you to understand. The paperwork anyone can do? Being about I'd say a million times more experienced than you in the field I would have to say if you seriously believe what you’ve said you are either uniformed or a have cognitive deficiency.

.......and yet, thousands of people in the UK do just that, buy and sell their houses without the aid of a "professional".

Are they all geniuses like you? Ex-realtors? Nope, they're just ordinary people saving on fees.

I couldn't care if you are "a million times more experienced". I'll go with logic and reason that shows that if a members of Joe Public can do it, it doesn't take much skill. Just time and looking stuff up.

You can big yourself and the profession up as much as you want, but, on this thread, there seems to be a dearth of buyers.......

[Robert2006]

.......and yet, thousands of people in the UK do just that, buy and sell their houses without the aid of a "professional".

Are they all geniuses like you? Ex-realtors? Nope, they're just ordinary people saving on fees.

I couldn't care if you are "a million times more experienced". I'll go with logic and reason that shows that if a members of Joe Public can do it, it doesn't take much skill. Just time and looking stuff up.

You can big yourself and the profession up as much as you want, but, on this thread, there seems to be a dearth of buyers.......

KarenBravo

……..and yet, thousands of people sell their properties in the US without agents as well but 98% use brokers. Why do you think a buyer would buy a home directly from a seller? I’ll tell you why because they know the seller is not paying a commission and they can get a lower price; private sellers almost never get as much for a property as we can. Most buyers do not want to deal with an inexperienced seller trying to “pull off a deal” this is serious business they have may have hundreds of thousands of dollars of their money changing hands.

As far as my profession is concerned I’m very proud of it, I been in the business all my life and my family has been in the business four generations. You see I’m a little different that the average TV person regarding real estate, I know what I’m talking about. No sense in listening to someone that has a background and experience in the field you will “go with the logic and reason of Joe Public”, with those types of reasoning skills the rest of your life must be going just great! (that’s sarcasm again) I don’t have to big myself or my profession up, I know my business, you see you cannot BS a plumber about how to do a plumbing job and you cannot BS me about a real estate job.

[Robert2006]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

And your "story" says it all

What "Robert2006" says...... probably has a "some" merit to it..........

But these guys that are trading here as "agents".........are anything but.......probably just trying to get a visa......

If truth be known.....there should be a "commission war" here......and let the best man win...............

(Robert2006 should "set-up" and give them a "run for their money")..........if he is that good, he can list my property.....(which isn't currently on the market)

Personally I would not be interested in selling real estate in Thailand. It is an exceptionally unfriendly business environment for a foreigner of open a business. Additionally although I do speak, read and write Thai I would need a complete knowledge of the Thai banking industry to effectively apply my trade and I don’t have a command of the language at that level.

[ThaiBob]

These comparisons of selling (or buying) buying real estate in America, the UK and here are meaningless. The markets, the laws are completely different. In America, everything must be disclosed to the buyer, the realtor and seller and can be sued for failing to make a disclosure. In California, when I sold my house I had to disclose if someone had died in the last 3 years, noise pollution and noisy neighbors, sex offenders within a specified area, and the list goes on and on. A seller and agent were sued for not disclosing about errant golf balls on her golf course home. A buyer typically enlists their own agent to negotiate all the intricacies of buying. Selling and buying agents share the commission. Comparing different markets serves little purpose.

[WilliamCave]

1%?..Really? In the US the normal selling fee is 6%...3% for the listing agent + 3% for the buyer's agent...that can be the same person......

Agents are about the same in Canada to but the difference is they do every thing advertise list the home promote it etc and no money up front until they sell.

They work hard to sell it to

[DD13]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

And your "story" says it all

What "Robert2006" says...... probably has a "some" merit to it..........

But these guys that are trading here as "agents".........are anything but.......probably just trying to get a visa......

If truth be known.....there should be a "commission war" here......and let the best man win...............

(Robert2006 should "set-up" and give them a "run for their money")..........if he is that good, he can list my property.....(which isn't currently on the market)

Personally I would not be interested in selling real estate in Thailand. It is an exceptionally unfriendly business environment for a foreigner of open a business. Additionally although I do speak, read and write Thai I would need a complete knowledge of the Thai banking industry to effectively apply my trade and I don’t have a command of the language at that level.

Ah......

Instead of trying to blind us with your "brainwashed" views on estate agency.....

Maybe you should "Swat-up" on the Thai banking system & rules....

Then you will be a "complete man".........in your view

BTW I don't take all comments on TV as gospel.......but like a lot of us.....enjoy a "wind-up"

Have a Good Day

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and the reply to it have been removed

[Beardog]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

Just out of curiosity Beardog. Which area are you talking about and did you recently sold a 12 M Baht property ?

" Quote "The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. (I think you read the post incorrectly)

It wasn't sold for 12 mil. but within the year we sold property value went up 200% the area across the street is being sold now at 1.5 a nahn. It was near Baan kaw Chi Chan school Bang Saray.. The land value now being sold is well over 12 mill. now. The other 3 Rai just turned for 2 Mill. a rai that we sold for 1 mill a Rai.

Property is off the hook in Bang Saray & Ban Ampur as it is very sought after & there is a very very limited amount of land for sale left. So little land that we have 2 lots sold that we have not got the Chinotes to yet. If you want beachfront a Rai goes for 17-22 million a rai right on the beach making the land up to 10 times more expensive than the top land in Maui Hawaii. I have to laugh when people ask if the land is beachfront. It is way obvious that they never drove to Bang Saray & priced the land out here. Ban Ampur is the same. Craig can back me up on that. As more & more people come up from Bangkok or want to get out of city life in Patts it is consuming up what little property is out here. The only amounts of land in abundance are the 600,000 baht red brick shitholes that are in villages around here. And they are going for 1.7 -3.2 mill. for a 40 twah lot & inferior built structures that are using 2 hoon steel & red brick instead of Rebar & Superblock. We know most of the builders that are working for the developers out here so we know from the plans how much the material & labor costs are.

[Robert2006]

The real estate agents up here are a joke. We offered 10% for sale of our last property. The property was undervalued at 50% & now has tripled it's value within 3 years. The companies want you to sell property for 12 million baht for 3-4 million so they can rape. We sold our property for 200,000 baht less than ask price.Even the banks that loaned the money to the buyers valued the land at 2.5 million over the ask price.

I am not at all impressed with the lack of interest or desire to sell property up here. The property was in a great location & had water features & all the other wanted features but the companies we talked to just were lame & not hungry enough to sell. Their loss. We flip property up here & now don't even bother to use an agent.

The sad part is we only buy the best properties with location location location. In the states we would have agents clamoring to get our business- but this is LOS land of not much in the way of common sense.

And your "story" says it all

What "Robert2006" says...... probably has a "some" merit to it..........

But these guys that are trading here as "agents".........are anything but.......probably just trying to get a visa......

If truth be known.....there should be a "commission war" here......and let the best man win...............

(Robert2006 should "set-up" and give them a "run for their money")..........if he is that good, he can list my property.....(which isn't currently on the market)

Personally I would not be interested in selling real estate in Thailand. It is an exceptionally unfriendly business environment for a foreigner of open a business. Additionally although I do speak, read and write Thai I would need a complete knowledge of the Thai banking industry to effectively apply my trade and I don’t have a command of the language at that level.

Ah......

Instead of trying to blind us with your "brainwashed" views on estate agency.....

Maybe you should "Swat-up" on the Thai banking system & rules....

Then you will be a "complete man".........in your view

BTW I don't take all comments on TV as gospel.......but like a lot of us.....enjoy a "wind-up"

Have a Good Day

Ah…..

Brainwashed views, hardly; my opinions are the reality of the business derived from a lifetime of actual experience not the hapless speculation you bring to the topic. What experiences do you have on the subject? Not many I would assume.

As far as me operating a company in Thailand no thanks, I’m not interested. The Thai business environment is littered with corruption, extortion, bribery, jealousy, laziness and incompetence.

Thanks for the “wind up”. You have a good day as well

[Robert2006]

These comparisons of selling (or buying) buying real estate in America, the UK and here are meaningless. The markets, the laws are completely different. In America, everything must be disclosed to the buyer, the realtor and seller and can be sued for failing to make a disclosure. In California, when I sold my house I had to disclose if someone had died in the last 3 years, noise pollution and noisy neighbors, sex offenders within a specified area, and the list goes on and on. A seller and agent were sued for not disclosing about errant golf balls on her golf course home. A buyer typically enlists their own agent to negotiate all the intricacies of buying. Selling and buying agents share the commission. Comparing different markets serves little purpose.

I can appreciate your point however my perspective is that the underlying basic practices of real estate sales are similar in the US, the UK and in Thailand. Legally speaking there are of course differences in regulations from market to market. In the US we are regulated to the point of absurdity with laws created by legislators that have never worked a single day of their life in the real estate business. Some of the regulation is well crafted but the percent that is irrational makes it difficult sometimes to operate successfully. But as the old saying goes, “it is what it is”.

[ThaiBob]

These comparisons of selling (or buying) buying real estate in America, the UK and here are meaningless. The markets, the laws are completely different. In America, everything must be disclosed to the buyer, the realtor and seller and can be sued for failing to make a disclosure. In California, when I sold my house I had to disclose if someone had died in the last 3 years, noise pollution and noisy neighbors, sex offenders within a specified area, and the list goes on and on. A seller and agent were sued for not disclosing about errant golf balls on her golf course home. A buyer typically enlists their own agent to negotiate all the intricacies of buying. Selling and buying agents share the commission. Comparing different markets serves little purpose.

I can appreciate your point however my perspective is that the underlying basic practices of real estate sales are similar in the US, the UK and in Thailand. Legally speaking there are of course differences in regulations from market to market. In the US we are regulated to the point of absurdity with laws created by legislators that have never worked a single day of their life in the real estate business. Some of the regulation is well crafted but the percent that is irrational makes it difficult sometimes to operate successfully. But as the old saying goes, it is what it is.

Robert, I agree the basic marketing principles of real estate are pretty much universal but I was trying to emphasize the major differences between Thailand and America. I know little of the UK real estate market other than what I have learned reading here on this forum but there seems to be a lot of UK sales persons here in Pattaya. My experience is buying and selling California real estate. In California, I was dealing with trained professionals who subscribed to a business code of ethics and were subject to legal action, peer review and potential loss of their license. When I sold property I signed a typical sellers contract (6%) which gave the Realtor/broker exclusive rights to sell my property for 90 days. I could take the property off the market of course but I could not sell the property myself and stiff the broker his commission. In return I got a commitment to market my property by listing the property on the realtor's website, advertising in 3 major regional newspapers, advertising in local real estate publications, professional photographer for the website, a 360 degree virtual tour, professional marketing advice, a brokers/agents open house, a guarantee to have "x" number of public open houses (typically on Sundays) and probably most important a listing on the Multiple Listing Service (MLS). The MLS is operated by the real estate industry and all brokers upload their local databases to the MLS every night. All brokers/agents know what is available the very next day.

http://mls.com/

Should a buyers agent see my property then he would contact my agent. The vast majority of transactions are done between agents from different companies. The buyer's agent represents the interests of the buyer, negotiating the price and all the pitfalls of buying property. Now compare that to Thailand where the buyer has no protection and tries dealing with potentially unscrupulous private sellers or sellers agents. When I listed a property here in Pattaya a few years back, all I got was a listing on the company's website and a picture in their office window. Of course, there is no exclusivity contract so there is no incentive to to market the property properly (see above) but they still wanted 5% commission. Since there is no MLS, I had to go to various companies /agents around town and contract with them individually. This has got to be stupidest way to market real estate but TIT. One last comment, back home you would never send large sums of money to a real estate company bank account or agent. Title/escrow companies are used to verify the property's title and to collect and disperse monies. I remember buying property here, going to the bank and carrying over a million baht to the Land Office. Another TIT.

[Robert2006]

These comparisons of selling (or buying) buying real estate in America, the UK and here are meaningless. The markets, the laws are completely different. In America, everything must be disclosed to the buyer, the realtor and seller and can be sued for failing to make a disclosure. In California, when I sold my house I had to disclose if someone had died in the last 3 years, noise pollution and noisy neighbors, sex offenders within a specified area, and the list goes on and on. A seller and agent were sued for not disclosing about errant golf balls on her golf course home. A buyer typically enlists their own agent to negotiate all the intricacies of buying. Selling and buying agents share the commission. Comparing different markets serves little purpose.

I can appreciate your point however my perspective is that the underlying basic practices of real estate sales are similar in the US, the UK and in Thailand. Legally speaking there are of course differences in regulations from market to market. In the US we are regulated to the point of absurdity with laws created by legislators that have never worked a single day of their life in the real estate business. Some of the regulation is well crafted but the percent that is irrational makes it difficult sometimes to operate successfully. But as the old saying goes, it is what it is.

Robert, I agree the basic marketing principles of real estate are pretty much universal but I was trying to emphasize the major differences between Thailand and America. I know little of the UK real estate market other than what I have learned reading here on this forum but there seems to be a lot of UK sales persons here in Pattaya. My experience is buying and selling California real estate. In California, I was dealing with trained professionals who subscribed to a business code of ethics and were subject to legal action, peer review and potential loss of their license. When I sold property I signed a typical sellers contract (6%) which gave the Realtor/broker exclusive rights to sell my property for 90 days. I could take the property off the market of course but I could not sell the property myself and stiff the broker his commission. In return I got a commitment to market my property by listing the property on the realtor's website, advertising in 3 major regional newspapers, advertising in local real estate publications, professional photographer for the website, a 360 degree virtual tour, professional marketing advice, a brokers/agents open house, a guarantee to have "x" number of public open houses (typically on Sundays) and probably most important a listing on the Multiple Listing Service (MLS). The MLS is operated by the real estate industry and all brokers upload their local databases to the MLS every night. All brokers/agents know what is available the very next day.

http://mls.com/

Should a buyers agent see my property then he would contact my agent. The vast majority of transactions are done between agents from different companies. The buyer's agent represents the interests of the buyer, negotiating the price and all the pitfalls of buying property. Now compare that to Thailand where the buyer has no protection and tries dealing with potentially unscrupulous private sellers or sellers agents. When I listed a property here in Pattaya a few years back, all I got was a listing on the company's website and a picture in their office window. Of course, there is no exclusivity contract so there is no incentive to to market the property properly (see above) but they still wanted 5% commission. Since there is no MLS, I had to go to various companies /agents around town and contract with them individually. This has got to be stupidest way to market real estate but TIT. One last comment, back home you would never send large sums of money to a real estate company bank account or agent. Title/escrow companies are used to verify the property's title and to collect and disperse monies. I remember buying property here, going to the bank and carrying over a million baht to the Land Office. Another TIT.

That was a good comparison of the US and Thai real estate markets, very interesting. As you detail the Thai market is essentially still in the Stone Age. You know well you have to be careful as a foreigner in Thailand you are fundamentally on you own; laws of protection are not taken very seriously especially when they apply to foreigners.

The Thai market is about as basic as it gets, effectively it is an all cash market, a one trick pony. The myriad of options we have in the US are not available in Thailand. They simply don’t know how to close anything but the most basic sales. I found most of the agents I spoke with lazy and uneducated, more like con artist than real estate agents. I read about the builders in Thailand vanishing with buyer’s money or not finishing the build out and think how these people not in jail. You conduct a dishonest transaction here in the US you end up in prison, in Thailand the penalty is probably an insignificant fine.

There are many issues making that market difficult, it’s a combination of low incomes, Stone Age real estate infrastructure, few purchasing options other than cash, agents lack of knowledge about structuring financing, foreigner’s locked out of the job market, no licensing or training required for the brokers, no regulations protecting the buyers and sellers and no penalties for dishonest practice.

It’s a comedy of errors; I always have a chuckle when I think about the amount of property on the market in Thailand that sits for years before it sells. Their one trick pony market is substandard; if they let us brokers from the US in there we would show them how to clear that inventory out. But that won’t happen their afraid to let us work their market, jealous of our skills and the money we would make. I went to the courthouse a few times in Pattaya to research properties for a friend, it takes all day to do what I can do in 5 minutes on my computer here in the US, it’s utterly like stepping back into the 1950’s there, they seriously need to get their act together.

[KittenKong]

Its a comedy of errors; I always have a chuckle when I think about the amount of property on the market in Thailand that sits for years before it sells. Their one trick pony market is substandard; if they let us brokers from the US in there we would show them how to clear that inventory out.

There are more real estate shops in Pattaya than you can shake a stick at. And most if not all of them have one or several farangs working inside. In fact most of the agencies are owned by farangs.

But that wont happen their afraid to let us work their market, jealous of our skills and the money we would make.

Are they also jealous of your self-effacing nature?

You seem to have misunderstood a basic tenet of the Thai property market. Thai resale property sits for months/years because asking prices are very high, there is little demand, and most owners have no pressing need (or indeed any need) to sell. Find the odd owner who does need to sell and his asking price will probably be 25-50% less than that of other similar properties.

[Robert2006]

Its a comedy of errors; I always have a chuckle when I think about the amount of property on the market in Thailand that sits for years before it sells. Their one trick pony market is substandard; if they let us brokers from the US in there we would show them how to clear that inventory out.

There are more real estate shops in Pattaya than you can shake a stick at. And most if not all of them have one or several farangs working inside. In fact most of the agencies are owned by farangs.

But that wont happen their afraid to let us work their market, jealous of our skills and the money we would make.

Are they also jealous of your self-effacing nature?

You seem to have misunderstood a basic tenet of the Thai property market. Thai resale property sits for months/years because asking prices are very high, there is little demand, and most owners have no pressing need (or indeed any need) to sell. Find the odd owner who does need to sell and his asking price will probably be 25-50% less than that of other similar properties.

I have a different opinion on the markets in Thailand; I see problems system wide, a lack of centralized easily accessible data, no regulation, an almost exclusive reliance on cash sales, no mandatory licensing or training for the agents or brokers. There are too few options for sellers and buyers a more up to date approach would help clean out inventories.

Thailand real estate markets are a free for all anyone can work the business without training; with real estate purchases being fundamentally one of the most costly personal acquisitions wouldn’t it be safer for the public if there was at least a licensing requirement? A mandatory criminal background check and a training program to get licensed would be a nice start.

[ThaiBob]

This is a curiosity question as I know there are a lot of Brit expats in Pattaya and quite a few sales agents. I am not speaking of the high commission rate here but it is basically the way property is marketed in the UK? No exclusivity contracts, no buyers agent, no MLS listing, no commission sharing, no open houses, limited advertising, few buyer protections(full disclosures), etc.?

[ThaiBob]

No replies to my question above so checking on my own I found there have been recent changes to UK real estate law and sellers must make disclosures to buyers(which miffs a lot of sellers) , but until recently it was Buyer Beware. It appears the old marketing philosophy was adopted here in Pattaya by the many British sales agents and others. So what we have is a customer base where no one is happy; people from the UK who are overpaying for the same crummy service they get back home and a group of American/Canadians who are not getting the services they demand but paying commissions similar to USA. Bottom line, the real estate market here needs a complete overhaul.

[petercool]

A post removed for profanity and flaming

[KittenKong]

This is a curiosity question as I know there are a lot of Brit expats in Pattaya and quite a few sales agents. I am not speaking of the high commission rate here but it is basically the way property is marketed in the UK? No exclusivity contracts, no buyers agent, no MLS listing, no commission sharing, no open houses, limited advertising, few buyer protections(full disclosures), etc.?

Didn't see this before, sorry.

Exclusive contracts are possible but not the norm. Commission rates for exclusivity are normally lower.

Buyer's agents are rare: there's not much point (see comment about solicitors below).

MLS? Most vendors will just see all the most prominent agencies in the area. Buyers will do the same.

Commission sharing also unlikely as why share when you can just introduce the buyer yourself and get all the commission?

Open houses do happen but they arent common. I dont really see the point of them, unless of course the property would probably be snapped up on the first day of listing (as indeed many rentals are in desirable areas).

Advertising would be on the internet and in shop windows, and a "for sale" board on the driveway if the vendor wants that. Hard to see what other advertising you can do that would be worthwhile, really. None of that costs very much, of course.

Buyer protections? Property descriptions must be accurate by law. Legal problems with neighbours etc must be disclosed. There are rules about the supply of information relating to energy efficiency etc. Buyers can employ a professional surveyor if they want to know more about the property. Solicitors (lawyers) normally handle all the legal and financial aspects of the sale (money, mortgages, deeds, searches), after the agent has negotiated the price. Agents handle rental deposit money which the law says should be 100% ring-fenced.

The UK doesnt have the litigation-obsessed culture that the US seems to have. The idea of suing anyone because your garden on a golf course attracts stray golf balls (as mentioned previously) would be regarded as insane by most people in the UK, and rightly so.

[ThaiBob]

Thanks for the above and basically reaffirming what I have read about marketing property in the UK. BTW, the use of buyer's agents is not exclusive to all states in America. Solicitors(lawyers) that specialize in real estate law are sometimes employed by buyers in a few states.