UK MPs back Palestinian statehood

[webfact]

MPs back Palestinian statehood alongside Israel

LONDON: -- MPs have voted in favour of recognising Palestine as a state alongside Israel.

The House of Commons backed the move "as a contribution to securing a negotiated two-state solution" - although less than half of MPs took part in the vote.

The result, 274 to 12, is symbolic but could have international implications.

Government ministers abstained on the vote, on a motion put forward by Labour MP Grahame Morris and amended by former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

Middle East Minister Tobias Ellwood said Britain reserved the right to recognise Palestine when it is "appropriate for the peace process".

In 2012 the UN General Assembly voted to upgrade the Palestinians' status to that of "non-member observer state".

The assembly voted 138 to nine in favour, with 41 nations - including the UK - abstaining.

Mr Morris told MPs recognising Palestine as a state would be a "symbolically important" step towards peace, saying relations between Israelis and Palestinians were "stuck at an impasse".

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29596822


-- BBC 2014-10-14

[Munsterman]

Brilliant! About time someone pushed the issue along, so well done to those MPs in Westminster who had the courage to vote. I hope that this is the snowball that starts the avalanche, and other nations follow the lead. Israel will be unhappy, but it is not their role to determine who is or is not a state - that is a matter for the international community. Besides, Israeli "sensitivities" should be discounted as for 60 years they have been promising a peace they never intended to deliver. Likewise the Israeli lackeys in the USA government should be sidelined, as it is time for the US to be relieved of their role as "peacemaker" in Palestine. The USA has blood on its hands for supporting the continuation of the Israeli policies of ethnic cleansing and land theft. So, this is very welcome news, and hopefully the beginning of more active support from the global community. Viva Palestine!

[Ulysses G.]

The vote has no practical significance since it does not oblige the British government to change its current policy of recognizing Palestine only after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians as the Oslo Accords require. Pretty meaningless really.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Thorgal]

Other European countries should follow soon after Sweden and UK.

Homeless Palestinians should be living in illegal Israel settlements...

Return of the Palestinian economical rescources should be a fact.

Decolonization will be a painfull and expensive process for Israel.

[Seastallion]

Viva Palestine.

Unfortunately, Jack Straw's amendment means that the Israeli cause is continued; the amendment is that the UK recognises Palestine after a peace deal has been signed, and we all know full well that Israel will never sign unless they get total capitulation from the Palestinians and an even larger chunk of their land.

Farcical and sad.

[dexterm]

It’s very telling that people such as Richard Ottaway, chairman of the powerful Foreign Affairs Select Committee, a long time friend of Israel voted for Palestinian recognition, citing Israel’s latest aggression in Gaza and the recent annexation of further land in the West Bank. He said, “Under normal circumstances I would oppose this motion. But such is my anger over the behaviour of Israel that I will not be opposing it. I have to say to the government of Israel – if it is losing people like me it is going to be losing a lot people.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/palestine-vote-mps-take-historic-decision-to-recognise-palestinian-state-9792485.html

People worldwide are finally waking up to Israel’s lies, hypocrisy and neo colonialist land grab.

Well done UK MPs for standing up to the bullies in the Israeli lobby. Would that US Congressmen were as brave.

[Scott]

Troll post removed. Here's a clue about staying on the topic: UK, MP's, Palestine.

Here's a clue about how to get your post removed: US, Germany, Jews, Wiedergutmachung.

Please read the OP and stay on topic.

[SOTIRIOS]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

[Credo]

It depends on who you think the land was owned by historically. A lot of different people have lived there. I don't know that any of them were considered as 'Palestinian'.

[Ulysses G.]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

I see you are rehashing your old myths, UG, that have been debunked many times before. Palestine has been around for more than 3,000 years.

For the truth I suggest members consult..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

There once was a time when Israel made waving the Palestinian flag illegal. Now UK has recognized the state of Palestine. I'd say that's progress and far from the status quo.

Ideas once planted in people's minds become movements for change...and about time too.

Grahame Morris the proposer of this UK motion said: “In 1920 we undertook a sacred trust to guide Palestine to statehood and to independence. That was nearly a century ago and the Palestinian people are still yet to have their rights recognised. This sacred trust is something we have neglected for far too long"

Hear hear.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/palestine-vote-mps-take-historic-decision-to-recognise-palestinian-state-9792485.html

[Thorgal]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

Mc Mahon agreement of 1915 was based on return of land to Arab Palestinians after UK mandate.

Balfour declaration of 1917 was based on a historical gift of land of Palestine to 'Future Israeli's'...

You know very well why the UK refused since 1916 to respect the Mc Mahon agreement.

Palestinian non-statehood today originates from the biased Balfour declaration from 1917.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

I see you are rehashing your old myths, UG, that have been debunked many times before. Palestine has been around for more than 3,000 years.

I suggest you read your link more carefully before promoting with such nonsense:

Historical geographic region

There has NEVER been an independent Arab state called Palestine in all recorded history: That is a fact.

Your second link is a lie that has been pointed out to you repeatedly. The owners of that land were not "Palestinians". The land was owned by absentee landlords in Arabs in Beirut and Damascus.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

You know very well why the UK refused since 1916 to respect the Mc Mahon agreement.

Because the British government disputed the agreement. They said that any land definitions were only approximate and that a map drawn at the time excluded Palestine from land to be given to the Arab people. You will have to take it up with them.

[PiPiFFS]

If they can create a state of Israel where there was none before why can't they create a state of Palestine where there isn't one ?

[Baerboxer]

"Middle East Minister Tobias Ellwood said Britain reserved the right to recognise Palestine when it is "appropriate for the peace process"

So parliament votes, by a massive majority of those who voted, to recognize Palestine as a state. The government minister then comes out with the above statement. Cameron's government don't care what the electorate, parliament, or even their own party want. They will only do things when and if they want to.

Welcome to British democracy Cameron style. And he has the balls to lecture others on democracy!! The most autocratic and pretentious PM Britain has suffered in recent years. An upper class twit who even publicly gossips about his distant relative, HM the Queen.

Cameron wants to woo the Muslin vote, and keep the radicals at bay. The Jewish lobby and number of Jewish parliamentarians are too big to ignore too. So he has a vote, good for the Muslims, then waters it down to keep the original status quo, which he hopes keeps the Jews on side.

Regardless of whether you support the recognition or not, its another example of the current British governments scant regard of the democratic process they so often preach as sacred.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Baerboxer

[TheKnave]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

Mc Mahon agreement of 1915 was based on return of land to Arab Palestinians after UK mandate.

Balfour declaration of 1917 was based on a historical gift of land of Palestine to 'Future Israeli's'...

You know very well why the UK refused since 1916 to respect the Mc Mahon agreement.

Palestinian non-statehood today originates from the biased Balfour declaration from 1917.

You left out the Sykes - Picot agreement of 1916, wherein Britain and France divvied up all of the middle east. There was no Palestinian state then, or ever. Britain had designs on the whole area, made a duplicitous deal with France, which when outed by the Russians caused much strife. Then Lord Balfour came along in 1917, and magnanimously 'created' a Jewish homeland from land that arguably wasn't Britain's to give (yet). Of course, the Balfour declaration stipulated that it was contingent on not infringing the rights of the existing (nomadic Arab) population.

So, all those countries who benefitted from early 20th century Imperialism, please form a line to the right, with your land titles ready to relinquish to whomever claims to have been there first. Or shall we extend it to the 19th century? 15th?

Thailand will have to part with those pesky southern provinces, while the US says goodbye to California, or everything left of the Mississippi, or even Manhattan ($24 in beads, come on), etc.

The Palestinian PR machine, ruthlessly fed by Hamas firing rockets from schoolgrounds and hospitals, is a thing of beauty. If dead kids are beautiful.

If Hamas laid down its weapons today, there could be peace tomorrow.

If Israel laid down her weapons today, tomorrow there would be no Israel.

Recognize Israel's right to exist, stop firing rockets into population centers. Then, if Israel doesn't cease attacking, the world will see her true colors.

And FEH to the Hamas dupes who believe what they are force-fed.

Think I'll have a bagel or something now.

[dexterm]

....according to historical maps..

..the state of Palestine has been encroached up to the point that approximately 1% of their original land 'is theirs'.....

There has never - ever - been a state of Palestine and very few Palestinian Arabs owned any land before 1948. What are you talking about?

This vote means the British government will recognize Palestine after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians. It has not changed the status quo.

I see you are rehashing your old myths, UG, that have been debunked many times before. Palestine has been around for more than 3,000 years.

Your second link is a lie that has been pointed out to you repeatedly. The owners of that land were not "Palestinians". The land was owned by absentee landlords in Arabs in Beirut and Damascus.

This old chestnut about phony demographics and land ownership is lifted by Israeli apologists from the incompetent amateur historian Joan Peters hoax treatise "From Time Immemorial" now heavily criticized as "ludicrous", "worthless" and a "forgery".

Read the critique for yourselves at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

[Ulysses G.]

Another Red Herring. No one has ever mentioned "From Time Immemorial" on this forum, besides you. I have never heard of it otherwise. The land was owned by absentee landlords in Arabs in Cairo, Beirut and Damascus that were part of the Ottoman Empire. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins. There is no disputing that fact.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Thorgal]

You know very well why the UK refused since 1916 to respect the Mc Mahon agreement.

Because the British government disputed the agreement. They said that any land definitions were only approximate and that a map drawn at the time excluded Palestine from land to be given to the Arab people. You will have to take it up with them.

The truth lays between Chaim Weitzman, Samuel Untermeyer and Arthur Balfour...

Why don't you claim a Palestinian conspiracy ?

Edited October 14, 2014 by Thorgal

[konying]

Great! Seems the tide is turning....5555... VIVA PALESTINA!!!!

The next step is to push the Israeli jews out of all the land they occupy illegaly since so many years and finally give the so called Palestinans an adequate place to live in!

Jerusalem needs to become the capital of this Palestina and once when the blood and money thirsty Israelis are ready for peace it will become the joint capital of Israel and Palestina. I know it is a distant dream but it can become possible.

If only so called Palestinians could say " Palestine" then one might actually start to think it's true.

But since there is no letter "p" in Arabic , it might have to be renamed to Balestina or Falistina .

[stoffel45]

Brilliant! About time someone pushed the issue along, so well done to those MPs in Westminster who had the courage to vote. I hope that this is the snowball that starts the avalanche, and other nations follow the lead. Israel will be unhappy, but it is not their role to determine who is or is not a state - that is a matter for the international community. Besides, Israeli "sensitivities" should be discounted as for 60 years they have been promising a peace they never intended to deliver. Likewise the Israeli lackeys in the USA government should be sidelined, as it is time for the US to be relieved of their role as "peacemaker" in Palestine. The USA has blood on its hands for supporting the continuation of the Israeli policies of ethnic cleansing and land theft. So, this is very welcome news, and hopefully the beginning of more active support from the global community. Viva Palestine!

Munsterman, looking at it dispassionately - there is nothing to chose between the violence and self-serving rhetoric and broken promises of both sides.

It is true and none may deny it that Israel was dumped on the Palestinians without their agreement and thus, regardless of arguments to the contrary, Israel is sited on Palestinian land.

The Palestinians have also made and broken agreement after agreement with the Israelis.

The only possibility for both Jews and Palestinians to live together is for the whole country to revert to Palestine - with the Israelis being a Jewish enclave protected by the U.N.

Regardless of the wishes of a few Labour MPs there will never be a two state solution in Palestine/Israel.

[Chicog]

To create Israel was one of the biggest mistakes the world did in the whole history. What a crazy idea, bring people (jews) from all over the world to Palestina. They have no intention and capacity of living in peace with their neighours. Why not integrate them into the US for instance. Most people in the Middle East never wanted them.

Personally I just think they made Israel the wrong shape.

The French should have given them an east waste slab of Syria and the current Israel, including the Golan Heights, then they could be like Senegal and probably not so aggressive with their neighbours.

But the religious nuts got priority. Gotta have Jerusalem!

If you actually removed Jerusalem from the equation, what would they have to fight about other than coastline and oil (& gas)?

[Seastallion]

Brilliant! About time someone pushed the issue along, so well done to those MPs in Westminster who had the courage to vote. I hope that this is the snowball that starts the avalanche, and other nations follow the lead. Israel will be unhappy, but it is not their role to determine who is or is not a state - that is a matter for the international community. Besides, Israeli "sensitivities" should be discounted as for 60 years they have been promising a peace they never intended to deliver. Likewise the Israeli lackeys in the USA government should be sidelined, as it is time for the US to be relieved of their role as "peacemaker" in Palestine. The USA has blood on its hands for supporting the continuation of the Israeli policies of ethnic cleansing and land theft. So, this is very welcome news, and hopefully the beginning of more active support from the global community. Viva Palestine!

Munsterman, looking at it dispassionately - there is nothing to chose between the violence and self-serving rhetoric and broken promises of both sides.

It is true and none may deny it that Israel was dumped on the Palestinians without their agreement and thus, regardless of arguments to the contrary, Israel is sited on Palestinian land.

The Palestinians have also made and broken agreement after agreement with the Israelis.

The only possibility for both Jews and Palestinians to live together is for the whole country to revert to Palestine - with the Israelis being a Jewish enclave protected by the U.N.

Regardless of the wishes of a few Labour MPs there will never be a two state solution in Palestine/Israel.

You could be right, but I disagree from a point of practical reality. Firstly, it would and could never happen.They (the Jews) got put there, perhaps unfairly, but they are there now. 2 states have to form with defined boundaries, but those boundaries should favour the people who were chased out illegally, not the people who have bigger weapons.

I might agree with you that there never will be an agreement, but that would only be for as long as Likud, Netanyahu et al and other Zionist/right wing colonisers are in power.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Seastallion

[Alwyn]

People need to bone up on history before making their statement. "Palestine Mandate Land" was renamed Transjordan which the British divided and handed 76% of this land to Emir Abdullah which remained under British control. In 1946 Britain ended the mandate giving Abdullah control of what is now Jordan. So Transjordan divided basically to, with 76% becoming Jordan and 24% becoming Israel. There are more Palestinians living in Jordan than in Gaza and West bank together but nobody gives a rat's about these people and just focus on Israel. If we're going to go back in history to show providence how far do we go back? Just enough to try to establish it is Palestine? Why don't we go further back to times of the bible? Palestine is not mentioned in the bible because it never existed. There has never been (up until Gaza/West Bank) a Palestinian government. Period. As for Palestinians being forced out of their homes when the Brits handed the land to the Jews? Have a look at this..

[Thorgal]

People need to bone up on history before making their statement. "Palestine Mandate Land" was renamed Transjordan which the British divided and handed 76% of this land to Emir Abdullah which remained under British control. In 1946 Britain ended the mandate giving Abdullah control of what is now Jordan. So Transjordan divided basically to, with 76% becoming Jordan and 24% becoming Israel. There are more Palestinians living in Jordan than in Gaza and West bank together but nobody gives a rat's about these people and just focus on Israel. If we're going to go back in history to show providence how far do we go back? Just enough to try to establish it is Palestine? Why don't we go further back to times of the bible? Palestine is not mentioned in the bible because it never existed. There has never been (up until Gaza/West Bank) a Palestinian government. Period. As for Palestinians being forced out of their homes when the Brits handed the land to the Jews? Have a look at this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&feature=youtu.be

Pierre Rehov is an Algerian Jew who had to leave as 250.000 other Jews the country after Algerian independency.

Read about his life and his work.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Rehov

Do you expect objectivity from him and will you let him re-write the history with his subjective past ?

[uptheos]

The vote has no practical significance since it does not oblige the British government to change its current policy of recognizing Palestine only after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians as the Oslo Accords require. Pretty meaningless really.

No practical significance at all, totally meaningless waste of time as no government ministers voted.

Now steady Eddy et al can back to meaningful business, if someone tells them what that is.

[Scott]

Posts removed.

[uptheos]

Other European countries should follow soon after Sweden and UK.

Homeless Palestinians should be living in illegal Israel settlements...

Return of the Palestinian economical rescources should be a fact.

Decolonization will be a painfull and expensive process for Israel.

Give it up bro, even the most ardent anti Israeli posters can't be bothered to comment on this farcical vote.

Do you know Jack Straw?

[Jay Sata]

All of these votes in countries such as the UK lend weight to the movement to free Gaza and the West Bank from Israeli sanctions.

The same happened with South Africa and apartheid.