QUIET longer-term meditation place without ordination?

[jayjay2001]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know of a very quiet meditation place somewhere secluded in Thailand where one can stay for at least a couple of months and not have to ordain? I ordained before, and do not wish to ordain again. I've been to a couple of forest Wats (including, of course, the one I ordained at), but these were noisy from village houses nearby playing booming music, or noisy because of neighboring village Wats having all night parties with loud speakers and music, or noisy because Burmese workers at the Wat were playing booming music all day and night long (where the head monk didn't care). I have been to Wat Boonyawad-- which is a couple of hours east of Pattaya-- and which is nice, but one needs to ordain to stay there longer term. I'm afraid there is NO escape from the loudness of Thailand anywhere, but I thought I'd give it a shot and ask on this forum. Also, please no comments about just being mindful and remaining detached from the noise. I'm hoping to learn of a quiet place.

Thanks.

Kind regards,

JJ

[fabianfred]

Is Wat Suan Mohk no good?

What about Wat Rampoeng, CHiangmai...you can do the 26 day course and then top up ten days at a time.

Wat Tham Wua sound nice too....but I've not been there.

Can you share your reasons for not wanting to ordain again? I was a monk for two years and would like to ordain again when my kids are grown.

[jayjay2001]

Fabianfred,

Thank you for replying to my post. I appreciate the information about the Wats, but, I'm not sure if my question was answered, i.e., are these very quiet places where one does not hear the booming music of boom cars, local homes and establishments. I guess I am hoping someone knows of a very secluded place and can say, "yes, there is only the sound of the forest and the silence of meditation." I'm sure I'm dreaming, and most likely such places don't exist in Thailand.

I don't want to ordain for a few reasons. The main one, although it may sound strange, is simply it just didn't feel right, or feel "me," wearing the robe. Now, perhaps I needed a transformation and to let go of "me," but it just didn't feel right and I went with that feeling. Also, at the Wat I was at, there was more time and effort spent in reciting prayers (and, since they were in Thai -- and I wasn't anywhere near fluent -- I felt I was missing something) and would have preferred more meditation and less prayer. All in all, I guess I just didn't have what was needed to be a monk. Thus, I'd like to be able to go somewhere, wear the white, not ordain, be in a secluded, quiet place to work on concentration and Vipassana for 2 to 3 months, and leave-- but come back at a later time.

Anyhow, thanks again for responding.

Kind regards,

JJ

[fabianfred]

I have not been to Suan Mohk but I thought it was in a forest...perhaps those who have been can enlighten us.

Although Wat Rampoeng is a meditation centre it is in the middle of a village so all outside noise is not removed. The revered monk Luang Por Thong who is th founder also has his main place at Wat Chom Tong but I also remember he had a small meditation place in the forest near there.....

I understand what you mean about the Thai monks being more interested in chanting than meditation... they often ordained as novices and for the young learning the chants is easier.... and also meditation is much more difficult.. so they go the easy route.

[umbanda]

The Vimuttalayalaya Institute is directed by the very respected monk V. Vajiramedhi (look online for his material in Thai and English)

Its retreat in on a large and beautiful isolated spot of the Chiang Rai countryside. I do not know if long term is available for non Thai speakers, just ask

Call 084-9156146 and 092-2519887

You may also get information about long term Chiang Mai retreats on the UCM Buddhism School www.monkchat.net and the Wat Doi Suthep meditation Center...

Edited October 19, 2014 by umbanda

[harrry]

Why do you need quiet for meditation?

[jayjay2001]

The Vimuttalayalaya Institute is directed by the very respected monk V. Vajiramedhi (look online for his material in Thai and English)

Its retreat in on a large and beautiful isolated spot of the Chiang Rai countryside. I do not know if long term is available for non Thai speakers, just ask

Call 084-9156146 and 092-2519887

You may also get information about long term Chiang Mai retreats on the UCM Buddhism School www.monkchat.net and the Wat Doi Suthep meditation Center...

Umbanda,

Thanks for the information. I'll look into the information you provided. Thanks again.

Kind regards,

JJ

[WitawatWatawit]

I wish you luck. While recovering from a long illness, I too looked for quiet places to relax around the Chonburi area. Never did find anything quiet enough. Consideration for others ... well. Perhaps contacting the Sangha Council might help?

[IMA_FARANG]

Beginners always find excuses on why they "can't meditate properly".

Total nonsense, and simply their excuse for not learning the discipline to concentrate enough to meditate.

But to be expected from a beginner..

It takes effort to quiet your mind to meditate effectively.

Their lack of ability to concentrate enough to discipline themselves is never their fault .... it's always something outside of themselves that is the cause.

They never even ask the question of why other more experienced monks in the same Wat seem to be able to meditate, but they can't.

But you can't teach them to stop making excuses for themselves.

Once they do, they can start making progress, until they do, they are merely telling lies to themselves.

Beginners expect everything to be given to them, no effort required from themselves.

Problem is, it doesn't work that way.

[trd]

Beginners always find excuses on why they "can't meditate properly".

Total nonsense, and simply their excuse for not learning the discipline to concentrate enough to meditate.

But to be expected from a beginner..

It takes effort to quiet your mind to meditate effectively.

Their lack of ability to concentrate enough to discipline themselves is never their fault .... it's always something outside of themselves that is the cause.

They never even ask the question of why other more experienced monks in the same Wat seem to be able to meditate, but they can't.

But you can't teach them to stop making excuses for themselves.

Once they do, they can start making progress, until they do, they are merely telling lies to themselves.

Beginners expect everything to be given to them, no effort required from themselves.

Problem is, it doesn't work that way.

You are being unnecessarily harsh on the OP with your comments. What is of more concern though is your emphasis on "effort" and "concentration" which demonstrates some lack of understanding on your part.

I do agree that trying to find a place of absolute quiet is both impossible and unnecessary to practice effectively.

Edited October 19, 2014 by trd

[RichCor]

While I love meditating in quiet places, I am always amused by the behaviors of my fellow meditaters when they take down softly ticking clocks and bury them under a pile of Zabuton mats, or adjust a humming lamp ...never looking at what preceded or prodded their action, or even recognize the automated reaction/behavior, or their attachment.

Though, if there were a hundred sense stimulating actions going on and my mind was on full bubble of agitating thoughts I doubt I would even be aware there was a before, an attachment, or a fixed behavior/reaction.

But a quiet place is a nice place to start. So long as there are sufficient sense prodding activities to really annoy you.

Edited October 19, 2014 by RichCor

[jayjay2001]

If you are prepared to go to Malaysia (Penang), I recommend this..

http://www.vivekavana.com/

You can do self-retreats...

Three month visas on arrival for most western countries.

Glorious setting on top of a hill.

Vinniekintana,

Thank you for this information.

Kind regards,

JJ

[WitawatWatawit]

My apologies for distracting this thread, but I just want to point out that not everyone is a beginner making excuses. There are no doubt others in my situation who are recovering from an illness and need a stress-free environment. I also don't think we should be criticising those "making excuses". I would have thought gentle guidance in the Buddhist tradition was the more enlightened path.

OP, best of luck.

[jayjay2001]

My apologies for distracting this thread, but I just want to point out that not everyone is a beginner making excuses. There are no doubt others in my situation who are recovering from an illness and need a stress-free environment. I also don't think we should be criticising those "making excuses". I would have thought gentle guidance in the Buddhist tradition was the more enlightened path.

OP, best of luck.

WitawatWatawit,

Thank you for a post that comes from the heart. No need to apologize, as your post is not a distraction but is in response to a distracting post. Unfortunately, I have a mental condition called Misophonia. Because of this, when I hear the low bass sound from booming music, I actually experience pain and anguish--which can be excruciating. It's a curse, but somehow my karma. Unfortunately, an earlier poster who spoke about "beginner meditaters," most likely has no clue about this condition, and assumes I am a beginner when it comes to meditation; and, perhaps, feels it is his/her dharma to "teach" us all about the ins and outs of meditation.

While the term "beginner' is relative, I have been meditating for many years, including having done many intensive meditation retreats in Burma and the U.S. where once sits and walks for weeks nearly 16 hours a day. I speak humbly, but the fact of the matter is I have reached incredible states of consciousness that are in heavenly realms-- in my understanding, early jhanas; states of indescribable infinity and eternity, or absorption & joy, or peace. While these at the end of the day are all 'grist for the mill' --and solely from concentration meditation, they nevertheless indicate some advanced practice. Unfortunately, all my years of meditation have not 'cured' the Misophonia. Thus, if some posters need to know, that's why I need a quiet place. In a quiet place, I can hopefully advance enough first, and then discover the root mental processes that cause this affliction.

Again, WitawatWatawit, thank you for your post from the heart.

Metta,

JJ

Edited October 19, 2014 by jayjay2001

[rockyysdt]

In the monastery grounds at Wat Suan Mokkh there are a number of buildings including male and female dorms, historical displays and dining hall.

Across the road and 1 - 2 kms down a laneway there is the international retreat nestled in rambling gardens and bushland.

The loudest sound you'll hear is the sound of the bell struck at key times through the day.

Beyond the retreat there is extensive bushland incorporating walking tracks Monk quarters, meditation huts, & khutis.

There is a British Monk who practices here and appears as a guest speaker at the retreat.

I recommend a 10 day stint at the retreat and then approach the Monk.

You don't have to ordain or wear Monks clothing.

Everyone is welcome to live in the dorm indefinitely at no cost.

Meals are 25 baht approx and served at set times by the volunteers.

If the Monk accepts you, you can stay in a khuti and live off the Monks alms.

Wat Suan Mokkh is a short drive from Surat Thani.

They practice Theravada and embrace Anapanasiti.

[jayjay2001]

In the monastery grounds at Wat Suan Mokkh there are a number of buildings including male and female dorms, historical displays and dining hall.

Across the road and 1 - 2 kms down a laneway there is the international retreat nestled in rambling gardens and bushland.

The loudest sound you'll hear is the sound of the bell struck at key times through the day.

Beyond the retreat there is extensive bushland incorporating walking tracks Monk quarters, meditation huts, & khutis.

There is a British Monk who practices here and appears as a guest speaker at the retreat.

I recommend a 10 day stint at the retreat and then approach the Monk.

You don't have to ordain or wear Monks clothing.

Everyone is welcome to live in the dorm indefinitely at no cost.

Meals are 25 baht approx and served at set times by the volunteers.

If the Monk accepts you, you can stay in a khuti and live off the Monks alms.

Wat Suan Mokkh is a short drive from Surat Thani.

They practice Theravada and embrace Anapanasiti.

rochyysdt,

This sounds really great. Thanks for the post.

Do you, by chance, have a contact number, email, or web site URL? Or do you know if the people at Wat Suan Mokkh would have contact information?

Thanks.

Kind regards,

JJ

[flagator96]

In the monastery grounds at Wat Suan Mokkh there are a number of buildings including male and female dorms, historical displays and dining hall.

Across the road and 1 - 2 kms down a laneway there is the international retreat nestled in rambling gardens and bushland.

The loudest sound you'll hear is the sound of the bell struck at key times through the day.

Beyond the retreat there is extensive bushland incorporating walking tracks Monk quarters, meditation huts, & khutis.

There is a British Monk who practices here and appears as a guest speaker at the retreat.

I recommend a 10 day stint at the retreat and then approach the Monk.

You don't have to ordain or wear Monks clothing.

Everyone is welcome to live in the dorm indefinitely at no cost.

Meals are 25 baht approx and served at set times by the volunteers.

If the Monk accepts you, you can stay in a khuti and live off the Monks alms.

Wat Suan Mokkh is a short drive from Surat Thani.

They practice Theravada and embrace Anapanasiti.

rochyysdt,

This sounds really great. Thanks for the post.

Do you, by chance, have a contact number, email, or web site URL? Or do you know if the people at Wat Suan Mokkh would have contact information?

Thanks.

Kind regards,

JJ

Hello JJ,

http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/idh-rules.html

This is the link for Suan Mok

Also if you are looking for long term meditation and practice this may also be an option.

http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/aboutUs.htm

With metta,

flagator

[rockyysdt]

Don't hesitate to ask any questions about Suan Mokkh.

Cheers.

Rocky

[rockyysdt]

rockyysdt,

This sounds really great. Thanks for the post.

Do you, by chance, have a contact number, email, or web site URL? Or do you know if the people at Wat Suan Mokkh would have contact information?

Thanks.

Kind regards,

JJ

You'll find it quite difficult to reach anyone to discuss your specific needs.

This is partly why they created the 'Friends of Wat Suan Mokkh" website.

http://www.suanmokkh.info/

This gives extensive information.

Here, also is a chart indicating the best times to attend the retreat.

No bookings are accepted and it's first come first served basis.

There can be disappointments during the peak months (see chart).

http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/idh-statistic.html

Retreats begin on the 1st day of each month and run for 10 days.

Women and men retire to their own dorms but attend the same meditation groups, with the exception of the daily optional yoga.

Also the group walking meditation is held under gender lines.

There is also an one hour session of optional chanting in the afternoons.

Those who prefer not to chant can continue with meditation in the main meditation hall.

Apart from essential communication with the helpers, attendees are requested to refrain from talking or communication.

If you are accepted during induction held on the previous day you will agree to attend the full 10 days.

After this you can continue to stay in the complimentary mens or womens dormitory located on the Monastery grounds.

If you're able to negotiate something, a friend of mine spent 3 months under the tutelage of the British Monk.

He lived in a khuti and shared in group meditation sessions with the Monks as well as personal periods of meditation.

He lived on what the Monks collected during alms rounds.

Even if you can't negotiate such an arrangements there are plenty of places on the grounds where you can spend personal time meditating and practicing awareness and walking meditation, away from general society.

Living arrangements would be taken care of via use of the dorm and regular buffet style meals provided by the volunteers.

Outside of the Monastery grounds there are a collection of commercial stores also offering street food, fruit, and vegetables.

Edited October 21, 2014 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

This sounds really great. Thanks for the post.

Thanks.

Kind regards,

JJ

I found that by taking control of my routine/environment was very beneficial at the retreat.

As you can imagine, non experienced attendees who have no idea of what meditation is, let alone the externals which aid ones practice, might end up spending half or all of their time just coming to terms with posture, let alone the task at hand.

I observed prima donnas whose main focus was to appear an ideal meditator when you could see they struggled attempting to hold up a posture which just wasn't working for them.

Others tried extremely hard to meditate only to fail in an avalanche of mental thought, when all along their concentration should have been setting up their ideal posture and focusing on their breathe without judgement or expectation (one cannot meditate, but by focusing on the conditions, this state comes to us).

The Meditation hall consists of a large roof held up by concrete pillars.

It is completely open and without walls to allow cool breezes to flow through.

The floor consists of sand.

Each attendee is welcome to use a hessian mat, cushions and wooden seiza chairs of various sizes.

I have come to terms with my inflexibility, not being able to sit in lotus despite 2 years of stretching exercise.

I've found that a simple sideless chair (also supplied) is ideal for me.

I sit at a height which ensures there is no pressure under my thighs and the thin cushions aid you from getting a numb posterior.

Rather than fighting to support an unstable posture with its attendant muscular tension (mind and body interconnected - still mind : relaxed body tense body : rampant thoughts) I do my homework.

I never attempt to meditate.

I ensure my posture places my body at ease and at one with the force of gravity.

I focus awareness of the body letting go of any tension.

I then focus on the breathe the way it is taught in the Anapanasiti discourse (chase the breath all the way to the diaphragm and then all the way out with special attention to the point between in and out "the gate").

I've learned that there is never a bad session.

It's all about awareness of what actually is, rather than chasing something one thinks it is.

I've had the best experiences simply focusing on posture, breath, & observing thought with minimal attachment.

Best of luck choosing your venue.

Edited October 21, 2014 by rockyysdt

[jayjay2001]

rockyydst, Thanks for the additional info on suan mokkh

flagator96, Thanks for the info on paauk.

Much appreciated, guys.

Metta,

JJ

[Brucenkhamen]

Wat Pah Nanachat is one of the quietest I've stayed at, though occasionally there will be morlam parties in the village.

Wat Pho Shonkho in Udon thani is very remote and quiet but you'll need a reasonable command of Thai.

Considering the Misophonia I'm surprised you can cope with anywhere in SE Asia, you'd be better off doing your retreat in the West.

[cm das]

Wat Tam Wua in Mae Hong Son was very quiet during my short stay there a few years ago - no village or road noise at all. There's also a large stream running through the grounds, the sound of which is very relaxing and would tend to drown out distant sounds.

[jayjay2001]

Brucenkhamen and cm das,

Thanks for the information on the Wats. I appreciate it

JJ