UK cops 'to only observe'

[bander]

He also told reporters that Cameron expected the British public to "take some more time to understand this matter".

The British public and the rest of the world understand this matter, the only people who don't understand it is Thais who try to protect the reputation of their country.

​I have no doubts the real killer will strike again and another cover up will be made.

[bongoz]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Can you imagine the awesome Thai forces with unlimited resources that would hinder them?

How are these poor grief-stricken parents going to have a chance to find the truth?

It would need to be other family members somehow with huge resources. This is a sick attempt at news management by Thai `authorities` and I hope it backfires on them ie funds raised, investigators, recommended by HMG and Brit pol, and top-notch lawyers hired etc

Sorry to say but even in the west the people with more money are the one who can afford the best legal representation, doesn't matter if it's criminal or civil. Just a fact of life and the system we have to live within...

[bongoz]

again if Thailand Junta has the will....UK police will not only observe..but also investigate and collect some evidence

same as the australian police in Bali,Indonesia

Keep it in perspective please.

The Bail bombing were a terrorist attack, over 200 people killed. How can you compare that to this case?

[TTom911]

This forth and back between "we agreed / we did not and will never agree" to get the UK police involved will continue for a while I suspect...

But this language expresses at least quiet clearly what the UK's official diplomatic expectation is which they will demand to be met - in which ever way - and if the Thai's would have indeed twist/misrepresent what was expressed to them, and supposedly agreed, in Italy, it only would add to the official UK suspicion (let alone our "bickering") and will only make them become more expressive... Latest since Milly Dowler also politicians understand that it it politically not a good idea to ignore victims of heinous crimes and organised betrayal:

--

Thai version, seeming to imply that we are just a little slow in grasping the perfection and precision of the RTP (excuse my sarcasm ... :

"They simply needed more time to understand it all because we managed to arrest suspects swiftly, even though it seemed impossible at the beginning," he (Thai PM) was reported to have said."

--

UK version, seems nothing but fair, no!?:

"But diplomatic sources said he accepted the sending of a delegation of British police when pressed on the issue by Mr Cameron at the Asia Europe Meeting in Italy."

"Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process," a diplomatic source said. "But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice. There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification."And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects."

"What the (British) PM secured was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this."

--

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/british-police-flying-to-thailand-for-double-murder-investigation-of-beach-tourists-30673786.html

Edited October 19, 2014 by TTom911

[joebrown]

Majority of comments are from the "Peanut Gallery" again.

Guessing half or more of the "Peanut Gallery" are misplaced Brits who can't find a home anywhere anyway. People who can't seem to make a living at home and move to Thailand feeling they're a million percent smarter cause at home nobody would listen to them anyway (nor pay them enough money to be worth staying there, hence the move to Thailand).

You guys should chill and wait for the verdict from the British side. Someday, if this website gets hacked and you guys real ID's are figured out, you'll be the ONLY ones who have problems with visas etc. except for the "real" bad guys.

You might note us Yanks are a lot more careful about posting than you cause it's a whole lot more fun to watch than "expose yourselves".

Cheers Maties

I'll ignore the first 2 paragraphs of your post as they show your ignorance and contempt.

Would you still be sitting with your head up your ar#se if the victims were from Yankland or maybe family or friends of yours?

'Chilling out' and hiding behind drawn curtains isn't something to be proud of when an injustice may be done very soon to these 2 accused boys. The victims were Brits and their families deserve a closure that sees justice is done. The way this investigation has been 'railroaded' looks just like a KKK revival party. The KKK never shouted "let's have a beer and chill out whilst we decide whether to lynch 'em". Best not to assume ALL other countries' citizens think the way Yanks do, 'eh?

[bongoz]

What an eye opener they're in for. 555

I think everyone is in for a very rude awakening on this site. I can't believe how all these armchair detectives have figured out the whole case when they know absolutely zero facts.

I have read posts where posters have seen the gruesome photos and determined the young migrants are to small to do this terrible body mutilations. I say, How So? Sucker clubbed game over.

I read how the armchair critics have figured its a cover up and a frame up. Where did that dream come from?? Pure speculation! Does anyone really know any of the facts that the RTP or the coroner has? I think not!

The previous posted news story here with the media reporting what some say may be misconstrued facts when on and on for 30 pages of posts one after the other surmising, guessing, speculating. fantasizing and downright dreaming up false facts.

Now here we go again doing it all over again here on this new news release and now I must wonder about this 100,000 name petition. How did that many people get inflamed??? Could it have been the back and forth media reports and the police media releases? Could it be us here speculating with people back in the UK?

Whatever it may be fellow posters, let us let the chips fall where they may, let the hands be dealt and if we do not like the winning hand, we can call foul at that time.

I agree 100%.

I think a major problem is the information the police release, contradicting other media releases, promising an event will happen in X days, so and so has been detained, released, questioned, arrested, beaten, bribed promoted, moved to an inactive post, etc...

If the police used a competent media adviser and stopped trying to be POPULAR and just did their jobs, things would progress so much more smoothly.

But TIT

[DennisF]

"What the (British) PM secured was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this."

--

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/british-police-flying-to-thailand-for-double-murder-investigation-of-beach-tourists-30673786.html

This was a British diplomat speaking. They choose their words extremely carefully, their jobs depend on it.

They are not fools, if they say this was the agreement then you can write it in stone, that WAS the agreement whatever the dictator says to the homeland press.

[bongoz]

Does Singapore have DNA Samples?

If not all the DNA in the Thai Officials hands is tainted.

And the headsman is still pouring drinks with a smile, drinks for all my police friends.....These 2 small Burmese could not do that much damage on 2 individuals.....

"Does Singapore have DNA Samples?"

I don't know - let me check my crystal ball...

[Johnniey]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Somebody actually thinking logically and not emotionally or looking for conspiracy

Could be a way to get British police in the country under the radar. Family hires Thai PI, who works with "assistants" originating from England, and work all the clues of the case, not just those followed by the BIB.

On another aspect, what are the BIB thinking? Do they for one moment think that a Westerner would want to pursue this avenue? They really have no idea.

I am Western and would want to pursue this avenue for sure. I am not a Christian.

[Traveller45]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

Depends on what you mean by jurisdiction. British subject in trouble anywhere in the world, or killed as here, British institutions and bodies have jurisdiction. What you maybe mean is that they cannot PROSECUTE on foreign territory unless a treaty specifically permits them to do so.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Do you believe everything politicians say? Of course both PMs will put their spin on what's going to happen or not - that's normal. The fact that the British police have been invited is a first step. They will be given their objectives, and will report back to the Embassy, who will raise issues found, diplomatically.

i could go on ad infinitum, but what the man in street thinks is probably not the case within diplomatic circles.

It's the man in the street who change the course of history, all that is needed is unity and resolve. We are looking for justice not diplomacy.

[greenchair]

I can see this coming:

UK cop: We must wear gloves.

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: We must cover our shoes

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: Evidence protected by what?

Thai cop: mai loo, krap

UK cop: You guys have no idea on how to protect evidence and crime scenes!!!

Thai cop: arai wa? You bad falang!

That honeymoon will be over by the time the somtam is ready to be eaten!

UK cop. The dna doesn't match???

THai cop. Mai pen rai, burmese,

mai chai khun thai gdai.

[kaobang]

again if Thailand Junta has the will....UK police will not only observe..but also investigate and collect some evidence

same as the australian police in Bali,Indonesia

Keep it in perspective please.

The Bail bombing were a terrorist attack, over 200 people killed. How can you compare that to this case?

are you suggesting that it can be done with only a high number of casualties?and what is the limit?49?60? besides not all the victims were australian many were indonesian

[Johnniey]

I can see this coming:

UK cop: We must wear gloves.

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: We must cover our shoes

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: Evidence protected by what?

Thai cop: mai loo, krap

UK cop: You guys have no idea on how to protect evidence and crime scenes!!!

Thai cop: arai wa? You bad falang!

That honeymoon will be over by the time the somtam is ready to be eaten!

UK cop. The dna doesn't match???

THai cop. Mai pen rai, burmese,

mai chai khun thai gdai.

What's this - the pidjin Thai club?

[Number 3]

Does Singapore have DNA Samples?

If not all the DNA in the Thai Officials hands is tainted.

And the headsman is still pouring drinks with a smile, drinks for all my police friends.....These 2 small Burmese could not do that much damage on 2 individuals.....

"Does Singapore have DNA Samples?"

I don't know - let me check my crystal ball...

Fair question richusa.

DNA was not sent to Singapore.

This information was what precipitated the involvement of pornthip mad hair.

Her issue of 'DNA handling ' refers to this very fact. No DNA was sent overseas for handling.

[bongoz]

since rarely is even a life sentence actually a life sentence in Thailand.

And the more money you have and how well you are connected in the patronage system will determine

how long you serve of the sentence.

If you are a heir to a sweet soft drink.. you can be out on bail for years and never come to the end of the appeals process... or if you rape and kill but are a hotel owner with

good connections, not only can you escape prosecution, you can have foreign media thrown out of the country..

....thats the difference that is being objected to.

This case is being watched by the whole World, despite the JTJ and Ballsos of the forum, not just a few people. 100000 signatures on a petition that

took very little time to put together, protests in many major cities about the apparent corruption of the BiB, a whole raft of wonderful caring Thai people objecting on social media.

So, Ballsy and JTJ ( both of which I now ignore as they never answer direct questions, merely regurgitate the official line and propogate bigotry) you think that all these hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the Thai justice system and you and your little gang of trolls are correct??? Bet youre the only little soldiers that marched in step too.

Your families should be ashamed of you simply for not allowing the possibility of mistakes or corruption and for sacrificing your Thainess for profit.

It is my belief that these two Burmese are scapegoats - just call it a gut feeling.

Anyway...

"And the more money you have and how well you are connected in the patronage system will determine

how long you serve of the sentence."

Same as in the west...

"If you are a heir to a sweet soft drink.. you can be out on bail for years and never come to the end of the appeals process... or if you rape and kill but are a hotel owner with

good connections, not only can you escape prosecution, you can have foreign media thrown out of the country.."

OJ Simpson ... and many other unknown people. Well known fact WORLDWIDE money talks!

"So, Ballsy and JTJ ( both of which I now ignore as they never answer direct questions, merely regurgitate the official line and propogate bigotry) you think that all these hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the Thai justice system and you and your little gang of trolls are correct??? Bet youre the only little soldiers that marched in step too."

Thailand controls it's own Justice System, how many of those hundreds of thousands of people are Thai? As a percentage it would be tiny. Politics works on percentages, not enough people care - nothing happens

This is the current system Thailand has and we have to respect that. It will change, the same as our western laws change both for the better and worse. Many western countries now have so strong 'terrorism laws' that it is making the average Joe extremely uncomfortable.

Yes Thailand has a million and one issues, just like every other country, they only have 'different' issues. Are they workable 'issues' I don't know - if you are living in Thailand I would say yes they are livable!

I do apologise as there are some very general facts and statements in my post, but I'm just sick of people writing cr*p.

[Johnniey]

Can't the British secret service tap the phone calls between the police involved in this coverup. Sean Connery did it 40 years ago so surely MI6 can do it in these internet times.

But why would they want to get involved?

Somchai headman is hardly a threat to world peace like Dr No was.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Johnniey

[bongoz]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

That was sarcasm I hope...

[Johnniey]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

That was sarcasm I hope...

Can you imagine that happening here?

[coma]

Agree 100%. This whole case evolves around the DNA evidence, as far as I can see the other evidence is mostly circumstantial. Although the British police are describes as 'observers' that does not mean they don't have the right to report the validity or non-validity of evidence presented. I would hope if they are unhappy with the DNA evidence, they will request independent tests be done. If the RTP refuse, then this will surely show the world the 'real' Thailand. DNA is the key and all that really matters in this case.

DNA, DNA, DNA. Everyone is obsessed with DNA. As someone else has repeatedly pointed out on TV, the DNA evidence only links a suspect(s) to rape and not to murder.

If you put it like that then it actually, as bad as this may sound, doesn't really prove anything. A good lawyer would argue that the victim had consential sex with the acussed before being murdered by a third party.

[DennisF]

since rarely is even a life sentence actually a life sentence in Thailand.

And the more money you have and how well you are connected in the patronage system will determine

how long you serve of the sentence.

If you are a heir to a sweet soft drink.. you can be out on bail for years and never come to the end of the appeals process... or if you rape and kill but are a hotel owner with

good connections, not only can you escape prosecution, you can have foreign media thrown out of the country..

....thats the difference that is being objected to.

This case is being watched by the whole World, despite the JTJ and Ballsos of the forum, not just a few people. 100000 signatures on a petition that

took very little time to put together, protests in many major cities about the apparent corruption of the BiB, a whole raft of wonderful caring Thai people objecting on social media.

So, Ballsy and JTJ ( both of which I now ignore as they never answer direct questions, merely regurgitate the official line and propogate bigotry) you think that all these hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the Thai justice system and you and your little gang of trolls are correct??? Bet youre the only little soldiers that marched in step too.

Your families should be ashamed of you simply for not allowing the possibility of mistakes or corruption and for sacrificing your Thainess for profit.

It is my belief that these two Burmese are scapegoats - just call it a gut feeling.

Anyway...

"And the more money you have and how well you are connected in the patronage system will determine

how long you serve of the sentence."

Same as in the west...

"If you are a heir to a sweet soft drink.. you can be out on bail for years and never come to the end of the appeals process... or if you rape and kill but are a hotel owner with

good connections, not only can you escape prosecution, you can have foreign media thrown out of the country.."

OJ Simpson ... and many other unknown people. Well known fact WORLDWIDE money talks!

"So, Ballsy and JTJ ( both of which I now ignore as they never answer direct questions, merely regurgitate the official line and propogate bigotry) you think that all these hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the Thai justice system and you and your little gang of trolls are correct??? Bet youre the only little soldiers that marched in step too."

Thailand controls it's own Justice System, how many of those hundreds of thousands of people are Thai? As a percentage it would be tiny. Politics works on percentages, not enough people care - nothing happens

This is the current system Thailand has and we have to respect that. It will change, the same as our western laws change both for the better and worse. Many western countries now have so strong 'terrorism laws' that it is making the average Joe extremely uncomfortable.

Yes Thailand has a million and one issues, just like every other country, they only have 'different' issues. Are they workable 'issues' I don't know - if you are living in Thailand I would say yes they are livable!

I do apologise as there are some very general facts and statements in my post, but I'm just sick of people writing cr*p.

You have excelled yourself, you have manged to reply cr*p to what you regard as cr-p.

generalisation, OJ was a technicality but yes, he had expensive lawyers.

Check CSI to see how many are Thai, you might be surprised.

You are correct, as a rebuttal yours is full of generalisations and suppositions as well as dont knows.

But thanks for sharing, I know it managed to fill up a few seconds of your idle time.

[fozzy58uk]

We all know the British police have never fitted any one up nor have there ever been any corrupt coppers in the UK. The rich in UK are treated just like the poor.

Haha.

The difference is the RTP have always done these things without being questioned

The boys in blue however have mastered the art of skullduggery while under massive scrutiny.

Whose eyes are being opened here?

Perhaps the General had a word with call me Dave to ascertain the best way to fit people up and get away with it.

[heyexile]

To take a different view on all of this......perhaps this may be the catalyst for the general to purge the RTP?

Many times in the last couple of months a lot of things have been achieved by the army where before the RTP appeared to be unable to achieve anything on their own.

One can live in hope.

Abandon hope! The good general IS the police since coup. Now, as self-appointed PM, Supreme Commander of Police Dept. Who did he appoint as Police Commissioner General? The good general Somyot, the one who has been in charge of the investigation from the get go. He and good general PM already signed off on a perfect investigation.

Police/Army same same.

[bongoz]

Are you saying the monk in the pic with Shark tooth is Phra Suthep?

[coma]

What an eye opener they're in for. 555

I think everyone is in for a very rude awakening on this site. I can't believe how all these armchair detectives have figured out the whole case when they know absolutely zero facts.

I have read posts where posters have seen the gruesome photos and determined the young migrants are to small to do this terrible body mutilations. I say, How So? Sucker clubbed game over.

I read how the armchair critics have figured its a cover up and a frame up. Where did that dream come from?? Pure speculation! Does anyone really know any of the facts that the RTP or the coroner has? I think not!

The previous posted news story here with the media reporting what some say may be misconstrued facts when on and on for 30 pages of posts one after the other surmising, guessing, speculating. fantasizing and downright dreaming up false facts.

Now here we go again doing it all over again here on this new news release and now I must wonder about this 100,000 name petition. How did that many people get inflamed??? Could it have been the back and forth media reports and the police media releases? Could it be us here speculating with people back in the UK?

Whatever it may be fellow posters, let us let the chips fall where they may, let the hands be dealt and if we do not like the winning hand, we can call foul at that time.

I agree 100%.

I think a major problem is the information the police release, contradicting other media releases, promising an event will happen in X days, so and so has been detained, released, questioned, arrested, beaten, bribed promoted, moved to an inactive post, etc...

If the police used a competent media adviser and stopped trying to be POPULAR and just did their jobs, things would progress so much more smoothly.

But TIT

I think is more a case of incompetent police using a competent media advisor. The BIB have just way too much previous form of cover ups, using scapegoats, corruption, sheer and blatant incompetence and lack of care and motivation to go blaming the media liason.

Surely if it was the media liasons fault the big wigs (all I guess reasonabley educated) in the BIB would have sorted it out after the first couple of " incorrect " media releases. But no. It went on for three weeks or more. I mean ... Come On.....

[bongoz]

Does Singapore have DNA Samples?

If not all the DNA in the Thai Officials hands is tainted.

And the headsman is still pouring drinks with a smile, drinks for all my police friends.....These 2 small Burmese could not do that much damage on 2 individuals.....

"Does Singapore have DNA Samples?"

I don't know - let me check my crystal ball...

Fair question richusa.

DNA was not sent to Singapore.

This information was what precipitated the involvement of pornthip mad hair.

Her issue of 'DNA handling ' refers to this very fact. No DNA was sent overseas for handling.

"DNA was not sent to Singapore."

Can you back you statements up with any factual information or have you also been using my crystal ball?

[bongoz]

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

Source was from

blowin post 293

I meant what is the original source?

Yes I know you meant that but I don't know, I got it from post 293, come on do you need spoon feeding

No we just need factual, honest and verifiable information, not just some picture posted on TV with the vaguest of information - Thursday or Friday...

[heyexile]

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

Why? No-one should be above the law, what's so special about Prince Charles?

And "beware of princes, fools and desperate men."

[bongoz]

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Somebody actually thinking logically and not emotionally or looking for conspiracy

Could be a way to get British police in the country under the radar. Family hires Thai PI, who works with "assistants" originating from England, and work all the clues of the case, not just those followed by the BIB.

On another aspect, what are the BIB thinking? Do they for one moment think that a Westerner would want to pursue this avenue? They really have no idea.

I am Western and would want to pursue this avenue for sure. I am not a Christian.

Not sure about your English, but what does your religion have to do with anything?

[DennisF]

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

Source was from

blowin post 293

I meant what is the original source?

Yes I know you meant that but I don't know, I got it from post 293, come on do you need spoon feeding

No we just need factual, honest and verifiable information, not just some picture posted on TV with the vaguest of information - Thursday or Friday...

Here on TV?? geez.. did they change the rules?? Oh, Dont know if the photos real but I did check it, not photoshop deceit as far as I can tell.