UK cops 'to only observe'

[jdinasia]

I think with the 100,000 signatures on a petition in England, Cameron actually INVOLVED and the REQUEST for the English police to be involved...hmmm... I do not think this one is going to be brushed aside so fast even with THAINESS and a smile.

Same number of people signed a petition in the US to Obama to have Justin Bieber deported.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/deport-justin-bieber_n_5176202.html

1. United States of America is Not The United Kingdom (google those countries and add the words "Global Map)

2. Sensible people know these petitions are taken on merit.

Probably should add the UK is not Thailand too as well as the UK have absolutely no authority or say-so what-so-ever over criminal cases or evidence collected in Thailand.

Point being a petition is meaningless if what the petition is requesting is nonsense based or not really legally actionable even in a place like the US where the administration is required to respond if 100k signatures are gathered.

Actually not.

AFAIK this petition means that it will be presented to the PM and it will be raised as an issue in parliament.

Which unlike other more useless parliaments in the world mean that it will tend to get at least the attentiom of a local MP, but actually none other than the PM.

I think its a super system. Raise 100k supporters and raise your issue direct with the PM.

All 100k must come from UK cits or residents. Most on the petition apparently come from places other than the UK.

[sustento]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP

Yes - but it would all be over in a day, with a couple of Romanian car-wash workers having already confessed . . .

Ah - you're talking about those sterling bobbies at the Met No corruption there...

[JohnThailandJohn]

Remember.. The British police DO NOT believe the Thai Police version of events..They are not happy <snip>...

I missed the interview with police in the UK who said this. Do you have a link or are you simply trying to introduce BS speculation as fact to support something you want to believe?

Edited October 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[cloudos]

Not saying if the two Burmese were involved or not, but it seems as though there is so much information out there supporting that they did not do it, or at the very least, there were other perpetrators.

Based on what was reported.

1) Passed the first round of DNA tests

2) Blond hair issue, yet CCTV does not show any of them with Blond hair

3) None of these guys match the topless guy on the CCTV image

4) Their friend's testimony saying that they were asleep when he returned and everything seemed normal

5) The phone near the apartment fiasco

6) These two seem way smaller than David and Hannah. Going with the "they could have incapacitated David" with a hit from the hoe from behind seems to go against probability (not impossibility)

7) They said that they hit both David and Hannah with the blunt end of the hoe two or three times? Seriously?

It would be great if these questions are raised in a serious way by either the UK police or anybody within the authority to ease any doubts about their guilt or innocence.

About who the guilty persons are, I think that's a different story and at least for me, I don't know enough to form a strong opinion. Priority at this moment is to prove these guys are guilty, not to prove these guys are innocent.

[englishoak]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

Edited October 19, 2014 by englishoak

[Fatty123]

The UK police are not perfect.

However, ask yourself this. Who would you rather have investigate the murder of a loved one, RTP or Scotland Yard?

[ScubaPhuket]

Something you're all missing is that Jersey is a rather influential place with some rather rich residents. All of whom are outraged.

[kaobang]

 

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Could it be because he is heavily into drugs?

 

+ his father gave dna sample so he was cleared.

no.he did not

[SolePurpose]

Look at the individuals bashing the British Police.

Let me ask you one question!

If one of your family members was murdered which police force would you TRUST to investigate?

1. RTP

2. British Police

Choose wisely...

[MJP]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

[Thaddeus]

Remember.. The British police DO NOT believe the Thai Police version of events..They are not happy <snip>...

I missed the interview with police in the UK who said this. Do you have a link or are you simply trying to introduce BS speculation as fact to support something you want to believe?

Oooh, get back in the knife drawer Mr Sharp.

Is no one else allowed to do what you do?

[ArfurMaggot]

So, if during their "Observations" they pick up some points of bad practice in the chain of evidence, evidence or crime scene contamination, coercion of witness statements or confessions etc etc. What then?

[Pattaya46]

Let me ask you one question!

If one of your family members was murdered which police force would you TRUST to investigate?

1. RTP

2. British Police

Choose wisely...

No doubt I would trust RTP...

if he was murdered by a British Policeman

[ScubaPhuket]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

Haven't got a link to that statement have u? I'd like to have a look.

[amkbkk]

If the "Law Enforcement System" in Thailand is "Trustworthy", we don't have to seek additional help to assure "Justice" . . see the following video . . . it shows how the "system" works . . .

http://youtu.be/4NHRrpc5H-Q

Edited October 19, 2014 by amkbkk

[JohnThailandJohn]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

In the US about 60% of murders are solved.

So, the point here being and what others have tried to state is the UK and all police forces are far from perfect and all have corruption, all fail at times, all cover-up things and it is extremely common for cases to go unsolved.

In fact in a poll earlier this year it stated MOST Britts believe their is a culture of cover-ups within their police. http://news.sky.com/story/1196380/police-cover-up-wrongdoing-most-britons-say

[MJP]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

Haven't got a link to that statement have u? I'd like to have a look.

Since the UN has never made such a statement about the British police, naturally there's no link I'm afraid.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The bottom line is this is a criminal case and Thai authorities don't need the UK help in solving the crime --- So, they are not going to be asked, nor will the UK ask, for them to be involved in the investigation. Observers, sure as this is not uncommon and while Thai authorities often get assistance from the FBI (despite uniformed statements to the contrary here), in the David Caradine murder the FBI were just observers because Thais didn't need their help despite public doubt on the official reports.

[sustento]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

The homicide clear up rate in England and Wales in 2012/2013 was 90%

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224037/hosb0213.pdf

[JohnThailandJohn]

The UK police are not perfect.

However, ask yourself this. Who would you rather have investigate the murder of a loved one, RTP or Scotland Yard?

While the answer is obvious it makes as much sense as asking if people would rather have the electric company send them a bill every month or have them send a check.

Wishful thinking but not a reality. The crime happened in Thailand and unless Thai police needed assistance, such as their possibly sending DNA to Singapore for race identification, like any other country, they will handle the crime and criminal proceedings themselves.

[MJP]

The UK police are not perfect.

However, ask yourself this. Who would you rather have investigate the murder of a loved one, RTP or Scotland Yard?

While the answer is obvious it makes as much sense as asking if people would rather have the electric company send them a bill every month or have them send a check.

Wishful thinking but not a reality. The crime happened in Thailand and unless Thai police needed assistance, such as their possibly sending DNA to Singapore for race identification, like any other country, they will handle the crime and criminal proceedings themselves.

Clearly.

[kaobang]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

Haven't got a link to that statement have u? I'd like to have a look.

Since the UN has never made such a statement about the British police, naturally there's no link I'm afraid.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/234946-thai-police-are-organized-criminals/

http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/571

Edited October 19, 2014 by kaobang

[MJP]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

Haven't got a link to that statement have u? I'd like to have a look.

Since the UN has never made such a statement about the British police, naturally there's no link I'm afraid.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/234946-thai-police-are-organized-criminals/

No, no, that's not about the British police you see.

[JohnThailandJohn]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

The homicide clear up rate in England and Wales in 2012/2013 was 90%

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224037/hosb0213.pdf

What page you seeing this on? I checked every instance of the word "murder" in the document and don't see anything about a clearance rate. In fact the document speaks about detection rates of crimes committed, not seeing any stats on crimes being solved ... can you tell me on what page it says 90% of murders are solved?

Edited October 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[sustento]

I don't believe the British police have ever been described as organised criminals by the United Nations.

Haven't got a link to that statement have u? I'd like to have a look.

Since the UN has never made such a statement about the British police, naturally there's no link I'm afraid.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/234946-thai-police-are-organized-criminals/

http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/571

"According to the United Nations, the Royal Thai Police are organized criminals.

That, at least, is the inference to be drawn from looking at its Convention against Transnational Organized Crime"

The UN said no such thing. The author of the piece, Awzar Thi, came to this conclusion in the article. As he said 'That, at least, is the inference to be drawn'.

[sustento]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

The homicide clear up rate in England and Wales in 2012/2013 was 90%

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224037/hosb0213.pdf

What page you seeing this on? I checked every instance of the word "murder" in the document and don't see anything about a clearance rate. In fact the document speaks about detection rates of crimes committed, not seeing any stats on crimes being solved ... can you tell me on what page it says 90% of murders are solved?

Page 16 - figure 2.4 under 'homicide'. That's why I said 'homicide' rather than 'murder' in my post.

[JohnThailandJohn]

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

The homicide clear up rate in England and Wales in 2012/2013 was 90%

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224037/hosb0213.pdf

What page you seeing this on? I checked every instance of the word "murder" in the document and don't see anything about a clearance rate. In fact the document speaks about detection rates of crimes committed, not seeing any stats on crimes being solved ... can you tell me on what page it says 90% of murders are solved?

Page 16 - figure 2.4 under 'homicide'. That's why I said 'homicide' rather than 'murder' in my post.

That is a detection number (number of murders that year detected), not a solved rate ... "Figure 2.4 Detection rates for violence with injury, England and Wales, 2012/13"

The numbers are also not percentages but number of incidents. Why the first crime list is 108 (Causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving)

Edited October 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[sustento]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

The homicide clear up rate in England and Wales in 2012/2013 was 90%

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224037/hosb0213.pdf

What page you seeing this on? I checked every instance of the word "murder" in the document and don't see anything about a clearance rate. In fact the document speaks about detection rates of crimes committed, not seeing any stats on crimes being solved ... can you tell me on what page it says 90% of murders are solved?

Detection rates and crimes being solved are the same thing as far as the report is concerned.

[englishoak]

This is about trying to get these kids real murderers brought to justice, not a stage for your own petty bias or troll point scoring.

You people whining about UK police credibility with a murder solving record at home of about 95% ? we are talking about the RTP compared to the UK police and your trolling here the UK police are a bad idea ?

Seriously what TF is the matter with you people ? You should be ashamed considering the crimes in question...

While I don't think anyone would not believe a first world nation has better resources than a less developed nation or specifically the UK has better resources than Thailand ... you are not even close with your 95% guess and the UK police are far from perfect.

Overall less than 50% of reported crimes in the UK are solved ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269715/50-of-crimes-are-unsolved ). While the UK doesn't seem keen on making the murder clearance rate public, the last time it was brought up years ago they said it was around 70% and many reports indicate the clearance rate has continued to go down since then.

In the US about 60% of murders are solved.

So, the point here being and what others have tried to state is the UK and all police forces are far from perfect and all have corruption, all fail at times, all cover-up things and it is extremely common for cases to go unsolved.

In fact in a poll earlier this year it stated MOST Britts believe their is a culture of cover-ups within their police. http://news.sky.com/story/1196380/police-cover-up-wrongdoing-most-britons-say

JTJ this has absolutely nothing to do with these murders,

I challenge you to go find a more professional police force in the world.

I also take exception you trying to lump UK police in with the RTP in terms of corruption and ability... frankly its an insane analogy.

Heres the facts you cant handle,

The RTP have been found wanting from day 1 and have got no better right up to now.

Social media and people around the world called BS and DID something.

The British gov has heard and got involved.

UK police are on their way and WILL be involved.

The U turns BS and lies coming out of Thailand has been seen, been heard and finally been dismissed as not good enough.

Now because there are real experts on their way you have to resort to trying to claim the UK police are no better.... hmmmm ridiculous.

There has actually been real positive developments towards real justice in this case and you seem gutted its happening, resentful even.

Why is that... ?

So heres a simple question for you.... what nationality are you ?

[sustento]

That is a detection rate, not a solved rate ... "Figure 2.4 Detection rates for violence with injury, England and Wales, 2012/13"

"Previous detections bulletins have focused on sanction detections; that is formal sanctions where the

offender is charged or summonsed, cautioned, reprimanded or given a final warning. Sanction

detections also include Penalty Notices for Disorder (PNDs), warnings for cannabis possession and

offences that are asked to be taken into consideration by a court (TICs).

This bulletin has a wider focus on overall detections to reflect the greater range of detection methods

available to the police over the last two years. Overall detections consist of the sanction detections

outlined above (which still make up the vast majority of detections, 94% in 2012/13) and non-sanction

detections. The latter comprise detections where the offence is counted as cleared up but either no

further action was taken against the offender or the matter has been resolved by the use of a locally

based community resolution or the application of Restorative Justice (RJ) techniques. These locally

based resolutions and RJ techniques are part of the wider range of options the police have had

available for dealing with offenders over the last two years (see Notes for further information).

I"