State prosecutor orders police to question more before indicting the murder suspects in court

[MJP]

Thailand murder suspects retract confessions

Two Burmese men accused of killing British tourists on the Thai island of Koh Tao have retracted their confessions, their lawyers say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-29706725

[Eirene]

PaPiPuPePo, on 21 Oct 2014 - 07:42, said:

DJVillain, on 21 Oct 2014 - 00:54, said:

Eirene, on 20 Oct 2014 - 21:18, said:

My apologies if anyone finds this offensive....I am sick to death regarding this saving face BS...how about justice for the two young people who's parents can no longer gaze upon theirs!!

Don't find it offensive at all...

Unfortunately, those in positions of power see David, Hannah and their families as 'just Farang'...

And as far as the powers at be are concerned, a farang doesn't have a face and if it did, it would never be worth saving over that of a Thai...

I haven't brought this up yet but the crime scene specifically Hannah looks like a statement was being made by killing her so savagely. And the killer basically destroyed her face, maybe because she'd made him lose his.

Thank you PaPiPuPePo. This is exactly what I wanted to add....did not know how to put it without sounding insensitive. I have thought this from the onset...this was definitely personal...done in rage...not lust as the authourities keep implying. Whoever it was that believed she had slighted him in some way is used to having his own way,has a very very short fuse, may have done this before and will likely do this again unless put down.

[SteveFong]

Hold on,, I thought the investigation was now "PERFECT"? I though they had significant evidence that definitely shows that they had arrested the right suspects? I thought that the police had been given rewards for their exceptional work? I thought that the suspects had NOT retracted their confessions and therefore a trial is not necessary?

This is now so smelly it can be detected across all continents all over the world.

Please Thailand,, please stop this charade and try and salvage some dignity, time is running out.

I don't think this will make it to court. There are so many holes and more seem to keep popping up. Even the prosecutors have shredded it. What may happen is that there is not enough evidence to indict the Burmese....they will be released.....but the real criminals will not be chased. The case will be shelved as being unsolved.

I can see that happening as well. Although I think it will be very difficult to shelve this one,,

If only someone in authority would grow some plums and do the right thing,,, instant respect gained and credibility at least partially created.

Before David Cameron personally intervened, the killers would have gotten off,

but not this time,

Anyone who thinks the Scotland Yard detectives are NOT going to investigate every aspect of this case,

also then agrees they are coming here to waste their time and allow the Thai PM to come back to the world stage a hero

BTW, what does Thailand export to the UK?

[peecee]

"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

more substantial than a dna match and confession?!

is that evidence not rock solid anymore then?

No, not when a couple of outside forces are going to sift through the bullshit from the RTP. They had a star witness who retracts, They had a sollicitor, they didn't have a sollicitor. They confessed, they retract. They were tortured and forced to do a re-enactment, There DNA wasn't a match, now it is. The bar boss got away from an island even though the island was locked down by the RTP, the island was never locked down by the RTP. A suspect does a runner and has not given DNA when DNA from a close blood relative will give a high percentage lead towards him. The RTP have a perfect case, no they don't; now its thrown back as imperfect. The PM thinks it's a great job, other world leaders do not, so he acuses tourists of improper dress and getting the poor Thai boys horny. No matter, the Thais never give a shit about anyone else anyway. QED, the poor sods are guilty.

[SteveFong]

I'm relieved to see the suspects have stated they had nothing to do with it offically now.

This case needs an immediate independent review and reinvestigation.

It won't be too difficult...the new team just need to get on Facebook and check out one profile.....

Now is not the time for any of us to let up the pressure

What we need is a way to communicate directly with the Scotland Yard detectives

Anyone with any suggestions on how to do this?

[Mosha]

"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

more substantial than a dna match and confession?!

is that evidence not rock solid anymore then?

DNA evidence obtained and tested by unqualified people.

[SteveFong]

Wait a second,

I just read where the police have also just said, they are NOT investigating further?

Do the contradictions ever end?

[englishoak]

PaPiPuPePo, on 21 Oct 2014 - 07:42, said:

DJVillain, on 21 Oct 2014 - 00:54, said:

Eirene, on 20 Oct 2014 - 21:18, said:

My apologies if anyone finds this offensive....I am sick to death regarding this saving face BS...how about justice for the two young people who's parents can no longer gaze upon theirs!!

Don't find it offensive at all...

Unfortunately, those in positions of power see David, Hannah and their families as 'just Farang'...

And as far as the powers at be are concerned, a farang doesn't have a face and if it did, it would never be worth saving over that of a Thai...

I haven't brought this up yet but the crime scene specifically Hannah looks like a statement was being made by killing her so savagely. And the killer basically destroyed her face, maybe because she'd made him lose his.

Thank you PaPiPuPePo. This is exactly what I wanted to add....did not know how to put it without sounding insensitive. I have thought this from the onset...this was definitely personal...done in rage...not lust as the authourities keep implying. Whoever it was that believed she had slighted him in some way is used to having his own way,has a very very short fuse, may have done this before and will likely do this again unless put down.

Ive always been of the opinion whoever is responsible for the brutality of this incident it is not going to be their first violent outburst or attack. In fact any decent police force would investigate any suspects past for evidence of violent behaviour, rape accusation or assault. Theres usually a past history with such violent attacks..

[DennisF]

This case has really brought out some Thai bashing.

It is NOT the Thai people as a nation who are responsible, it is the 0.1% (elite) who control the country and its finances.

Corruption is endemic but the recipients of the proceeds are the elite and their soldiers, NOT the general public, who are

just as likely to have to pay as any farang.

Please, dont think all Thai people are bad, in my many years here I have met very few who are not kind, generous, warm and inviting to foreigners.

[JLCrab]

I'm relieved to see the suspects have stated they had nothing to do with it offically now.

This case needs an immediate independent review and reinvestigation.

It won't be too difficult...the new team just need to get on Facebook and check out one profile.....

Now is not the time for any of us to let up the pressure

What we need is a way to communicate directly with the Scotland Yard detectives

Anyone with any suggestions on how to do this?

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok

Emergency Consular Assistance (24 hours)

For emergency assistance, such as in the event of the death, assault, arrest or hospitalisation of a British national, call the embassy on +66(0)xxxxxxxx and follow the instructions to be connected with consular officers.

including maybe the Scotland Yard detectives before they shut down the switchboard after overloading from persons calling with hot tips for the Scotland Yard detectives.

[ColdSingha]

"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

more substantial than a dna match and confession?!

is that evidence not rock solid anymore then?

Get lost ColdSingha. Do you you sleep good at night?

do YOU have a point to make as mine is obviously lost on you?

let me re-iterate.. dna match and confession must now be shaky (or fabricated) as more evidence is needed.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ColdSingha

[jaapfries]

"At the same time, the state prosecutor of the Eight Prosecution Region, Mr Thawatchai Siengjiew, disclosed that the working group of prosecutors have ordered the police to probe into more issues and to question more witnesses and find more circumstantial evidence before the state prosecutor could prosecute them in the court.

He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

So this investigation is then FAR from complete as stated. These are not minor details; all parts of the prosecutor's case need work.

++++++

"Human Rights Office officials said they received complaints that the two Myanmar suspects were beaten by the police during the interrogation.

They said from the interview with the suspects also confirmed they were beaten.

However a cross check of the suspects’ claim with Koh Pha-ngan police chief Pol Col Prachum Ruangthong showed there was no beating as claimed by the suspect. The officer confirmed no beating or torture."

So there are two contradictory "confirmations." Note that the Burmese can only make claims, while the Pol. Col. can "confirm" that beating them didn't happen. Isn't he just making a counter-claim?

Why don't they subject the whole lot of them to a Polygraph-Test ? ? ? ? - The truth will soon surface, even if the evidence is not admissible in a Court of Law.

Also; when certain individual refuse to take part (viz. in a Polygraph), then that in itself already would already be very telling !

[SteveFong]

I'm relieved to see the suspects have stated they had nothing to do with it offically now.

This case needs an immediate independent review and reinvestigation.

It won't be too difficult...the new team just need to get on Facebook and check out one profile.....

Now is not the time for any of us to let up the pressure

What we need is a way to communicate directly with the Scotland Yard detectives

Anyone with any suggestions on how to do this?

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok

Emergency Consular Assistance (24 hours)

For emergency assistance, such as in the event of the death, assault, arrest or hospitalisation of a British national, call the embassy on +66(0)xxxxxxxx and follow the instructions to be connected with consular officers.

including maybe the Scotland Yard detectives before they shut down the switchboard after overloading from persons calling with hot tips for the Scotland Yard detectives.

I was thinking more of them setting up a blog for us

[JLCrab]

I'm relieved to see the suspects have stated they had nothing to do with it offically now.

This case needs an immediate independent review and reinvestigation.

It won't be too difficult...the new team just need to get on Facebook and check out one profile.....

Now is not the time for any of us to let up the pressure

What we need is a way to communicate directly with the Scotland Yard detectives

Anyone with any suggestions on how to do this?

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok

Emergency Consular Assistance (24 hours)

For emergency assistance, such as in the event of the death, assault, arrest or hospitalisation of a British national, call the embassy on +66(0)xxxxxxxx and follow the instructions to be connected with consular officers.

including maybe the Scotland Yard detectives before they shut down the switchboard after overloading from persons calling with hot tips for the Scotland Yard detectives.

I was thinking more of them setting up a blog for us

A blog for verified non-anonymous UK citizens like on the http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk website or just another website for anonymous scenario postings?

[PaPiPuPePo]

PaPiPuPePo, on 21 Oct 2014 - 07:42, said:

DJVillain, on 21 Oct 2014 - 00:54, said:

Eirene, on 20 Oct 2014 - 21:18, said:

My apologies if anyone finds this offensive....I am sick to death regarding this saving face BS...how about justice for the two young people who's parents can no longer gaze upon theirs!!

Don't find it offensive at all...

Unfortunately, those in positions of power see David, Hannah and their families as 'just Farang'...

And as far as the powers at be are concerned, a farang doesn't have a face and if it did, it would never be worth saving over that of a Thai...

I haven't brought this up yet but the crime scene specifically Hannah looks like a statement was being made by killing her so savagely. And the killer basically destroyed her face, maybe because she'd made him lose his.

Thank you PaPiPuPePo. This is exactly what I wanted to add....did not know how to put it without sounding insensitive. I have thought this from the onset...this was definitely personal...done in rage...not lust as the authourities keep implying. Whoever it was that believed she had slighted him in some way is used to having his own way,has a very very short fuse, may have done this before and will likely do this again unless put down.

Call me PaPi :-).

Put down, I like the sound of that. I'd be happy to assist.

[PaPiPuPePo]

This case has really brought out some Thai bashing.

It is NOT the Thai people as a nation who are responsible, it is the 0.1% (elite) who control the country and its finances.

Corruption is endemic but the recipients of the proceeds are the elite and their soldiers, NOT the general public, who are

just as likely to have to pay as any farang.

Please, dont think all Thai people are bad, in my many years here I have met very few who are not kind, generous, warm and inviting to foreigners.

As I wrote above I think it's in part that no small percentage of the people interacting with falang in Thailand have either poor character to start, i.e. got involved in tourism to exploit tourist's ignorance, or have become spoiled one way or the other. So whether it's tourists or even more long-time semi-residents who still stay in touristed areas, both get a skewed idea of how most Thais are; add the language barrier to that.

So while I think there are problems endemic to Thailand at play in this case, there would be problems endemic to any country in a similarly-flawed case. Of course, these kind of things are happening with too much regularity, it would appear, in Thailand. I believe the current PM means well and is earnest about cleaning up the corrupted parts of the gov't/police, but he's probably got an uphill battle ahead.

[DennisF]

If people have definite information, not just hearsay or conjecture I am sure the met would love to hear from you.

You can contact them here.

SMS: +44 20 7230 1212

email: [email protected].

It is a given that they will be in constant contact with any officers in Thailand and they will get any relevant information

very quickly.

I do not think, however, it is a good idea to inundate them with cponspiracy theories orr anything without some

substance.

The last thing they will need is to be overwhelmed with spurious information that could lead to them wasting time.

In other words, if you contact them, be responsible, please.

I hope these links are acceptable to the mods.

edited: small keyboard big fingers

Edited October 22, 2014 by DennisF

[SteveFong]

Clearly,

the things they need to be aware of, are the results of the initial investigation which led to the speedboat, the man who they themselves said fled to BKK, and the cave dwellers

I have no doubt the case against the Burmese boys in already in full collapse,

it was what happens after that

[NeverSure]

"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

more substantial than a dna match and confession?!

is that evidence not rock solid anymore then?

DNA evidence obtained and tested by unqualified people.

And maybe switched around from different people.

Edited October 22, 2014 by NeverSure

[DennisF]

Clearly,

the things they need to be aware of, are the results of the initial investigation which led to the speedboat, the man who they themselves said fled to BKK, and the cave dwellers

I have no doubt the case against the Burmese boys in already in full collapse,

it was what happens after that

Correct, the 2 day continuous troll by the usual suspects trying to discredit the Brit police before they even arrive

shows a degree of desperation that is heartening.

First time they have felt to troll at all hours of the day.

Things may well be starting to look up for justice, the victims and the accused.

[SteveFong]

I am not as sure there will be justice, unless it is old style, and, the actual murderers are forced to take their own lives to keep their families in business,

if this was a real move to eradicate mafia's and drugs and the like,

the Army would have already moved in and shut it all down and taken the police who co-operated with the cover up into custody in a national purge

if there is no forced removal of mafia and confiscation of their wealth and property,

this doesn't end with justice

[StefanBBK]

"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."

Any case needs substantial evidence, not just the ones closely watched.

Is he saying that there are different levels of sufficient evidence, depending on how many people watch.... ridiculous.

[Duggsie]

I am not as sure there will be justice, unless it is old style, and, the actual murderers are forced to take their own lives to keep their families in business,

if this was a real move to eradicate mafia's and drugs and the like,

the Army would have already moved in and shut it all down and taken the police who co-operated with the cover up into custody in a national purge

if there is no forced removal of mafia and confiscation of their wealth and property,

this doesn't end with justice

Truth is, I guess we all know there will not be anything even approaching justice.

Why fix what ain't broken? And to most Thais I know, their system of policing and justice ain't broken.

To most Western establishments, ever was it thus.Our people travel to foreign lands, have adventures, pleasures and deaths each of which are foreign to us back home. Such is the rich tapestry......

No money to be made from murdered Brits abroad, in truth. Maybe a few newspaper sales but that's it. Very hard to keep the interest alight (unless you are media-savvy and/or "lose" a child in Europe whilst you are at dinner with friends - ahem). Some money-spinner that's become, over the years, eh? Whilst the perpetrators still walk free.

Thai establishment are waiting for this to all just die down and go away and after a few more Full Moon Parties, everything will have returned to its former equilibrium.

So sad that that seems to be the way of the world.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Duggsie

[DJVillain]

My apologies if anyone finds this offensive....I am sick to death regarding this saving face BS...how about justice for the two young people who's parents can no longer gaze upon theirs!!

Don't find it offensive at all...

Unfortunately, those in positions of power see David, Hannah and their families as 'just Farang'...

And as far as the powers at be are concerned, a farang doesn't have a face and if it did, it would never be worth saving over that of a Thai...

I haven't brought this up yet but the crime scene specifically Hannah looks like a statement was being made by killing her so savagely. And the killer basically destroyed her face, maybe because she'd made him lose his.

Yeah, I figured the same thing... Then again, she was a beautiful young girl who may have been genuinely a nice person who just wasn't into this Neanderthal who believed that he had the god given right to everything he laid his eyes on because nobody ever said no to him before because his family was the mafia...

She didn't make him lose face... He made him lose his own face...

[SteveFong]

I don't agree for one simple reason:

The Thai government, the Thai police and the people involved on that island

are not finished putting their feet in their mouth

and as a result, they have a far greater hole to dig for their country and its collapsing tourist trade

if it goes from 10% of GDP to 3 % while the rest of their economy is failing and debt rising,

they have not nearly begun to fee the pain of their own handiwork

when I was in BKK in Jan. they shut down the breakfast buffet at my favorite hotel restaurant, because the hotel was nearly empty

that was an international hotel, and it was empty in Jan., before martial law, before the coup, before the curfew.

it is now a full year that incomes are declining here, and then they hurt the smallest people by shutting down the street vendors, which, I actually supported in some areas as you couldnt walk on the sidewalks

there must be thousands of unreported layoffs and people now, in real trouble

I don't see a happy ending coming here, at all

Edited October 22, 2014 by SteveFong

[Johnsen]

Better give that tel number to Muang Muang. It is his testimony that is the latest information on the internet. According to him the 2 Burmese were made to help carry the bodies to the beach. Perhaps that's why the police r so sure of a DNA match. Maybe they only took DNA from where they new the boys held them. He also says possibly 1 policeman involved so they would know, the police, where to check for Burmese dna. If, and I say if this is true you could almost be certain no DNA was taken from her vagina.

Sean's statement re everybody knows the Burmese would be made scapegoats tells me he possibly new what had happened after they both had been killed. Otherwise that's a mighty good guess. I don't think the Burmese have ever been framed on that island before so why would he be so sure this time.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Johnsen

[SteveFong]

why do you say the bodies were brought there?

you making a claim no one else has yet to postulate that they were killed elsewhere?

David was drowned, so, I don't know where you are coming from

[Franky Bear]

I don't agree for one simple reason:

The Thai government, the Thai police and the people involved on that island

are not finished putting their feet in their mouth

and as a result, they have a far greater hole to dig for their country and its collapsing tourist trade

if it goes from 10% of GDP to 3 % while the rest of their economy is failing and debt rising,

they have not nearly begun to fee the pain of their own handiwork

when I was in BKK in Jan. they shut down the breakfast buffet at my favorite hotel restaurant, because the hotel was nearly empty

that was an international hotel, and it was empty in Jan., before martial law, before the coup, before the curfew.

it is now a full year that incomes are declining here, and then they hurt the smallest people by shutting down the street vendors, which, I actually supported in some areas as you couldnt walk on the sidewalks

there must be thousands of unreported layoffs and people now, in real trouble

I don't see a happy ending coming here, at all

Makes sense to me. I'm not a smart person when it comes to economics and all that. But i do feel that this is just the strt, the current decline will only speed up now because of the various mitigating circumstances going on politically and socially with these murders.

[Johnsen]

@SteveFong Muang Muang released a statement yesterday saying the two were carried to the beach from their bungalow. Its according to him where David was murdered and Hannah raped and murdered. The 2 Burmese who were on the beach were asked or made to help them move the bodies.

CSILA Facebook page has the English translation. It has also been posted on this site under a different topic. If true its a very very damming statement.

[SteveFong]

It isn't just "these" murders

it is "many" murders and

even more rapes

the girls get raped and then told by the Thai police, to leave

forget about their blatant disregard for the female victims

do they think those girls then go home and recommend to their friends that they should try Thailand too?

seriously

what does Thailand have to offer except cheap massages and sex?