Koh Tao murder suspects retract confessions: 'interpreter assaulted us'

[jdinasia]

question for JDinasia: if evidence showed the headman's people were the culprits, would you accept that?

Absolutely. Real evidence not the crap from conspiracy theorists.

Question back at you. If the semen DNA matches will you accept the guilt of the 2 Burmese men? (it is a little unreasonable to think that they raped but didn't kill- there is still the rest of the circumstantial evidence)

Absolutely if the DNA the British Police have from the body matches the DNA the Thai Police Farce have.....would I accept the Thai Police DNA without external verification....would I @kk!!!

It is improbable that the UK inquest will turn up any foreign DNA after a full autopsy and then embalming.

[DarloKnight]

question for JDinasia: if evidence showed the headman's people were the culprits, would you accept that?

Absolutely. Real evidence not the crap from conspiracy theorists.

Question back at you. If the semen DNA matches will you accept the guilt of the 2 Burmese men? (it is a little unreasonable to think that they raped but didn't kill- there is still the rest of the circumstantial evidence)

Absolutely if the DNA the British Police have from the body matches the DNA the Thai Police Farce have.....would I accept the Thai Police DNA without external verification....would I @kk!!!

It is improbable that the UK inquest will turn up any foreign DNA after a full autopsy and then embalming.

But the Thai authorities could have sent samples to the UK after they did their autopsy?

[farangman]

It is improbable that the UK inquest will turn up any foreign DNA after a full autopsy and then embalming.

Why do you assume that the bodies were embalmed in Thailand? How do you know that they were repatriated via a commercial airline? Do you have a link that shows the commercial airline used?

[jdinasia]

question for JDinasia: if evidence showed the headman's people were the culprits, would you accept that?

Absolutely. Real evidence not the crap from conspiracy theorists.

Question back at you. If the semen DNA matches will you accept the guilt of the 2 Burmese men? (it is a little unreasonable to think that they raped but didn't kill- there is still the rest of the circumstantial evidence)

Absolutely if the DNA the British Police have from the body matches the DNA the Thai Police Farce have.....would I accept the Thai Police DNA without external verification....would I @kk!!!

It is improbable that the UK inquest will turn up any foreign DNA after a full autopsy and then embalming.

But the Thai authorities could have sent samples to the UK after they did their autopsy?

They could have but imho it is unlikely that they did.

[jdinasia]

It is improbable that the UK inquest will turn up any foreign DNA after a full autopsy and then embalming.

Why do you assume that the bodies were embalmed in Thailand? How do you know that they were repatriated via a commercial airline? Do you have a link that shows the commercial airline used?

There was no announcement otherwise. The assumption is that the most common from of repatriation was used.

[farangman]

Why do you assume that the bodies were embalmed in Thailand? How do you know that they were repatriated via a commercial airline? Do you have a link that shows the commercial airline used?

There was no announcement otherwise. The assumption is that the most common from of repatriation was used.

Well that's your assumption...mine would be a DHL or similar non commercial aeroplane (i.e. non passenger) is just as likely to be used Edited October 28, 2014 by metisdead

[JLCrab]

bbb

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Edited October 28, 2014 by JLCrab

[jdinasia]

bbb

Guide to Shipping Dangerous Goods

DHL Express has significant experience in carrying approved Dangerous Goods. Learn more about conditions and regulations to ensure your shipments are fully compliant.

Shipping Dangerous Goods

DHL is an established carrier of Dangerous Goods and as a leading transportation and logistics company, DHL Express adheres to the following regulations:

• IATA for air transport, applicable within all countries which work under the ICAO regulations and any airline under the IATA regulations

http://www.icao.int/Meetings/FALP/Documents/Falp7-2012/WP16/FALP.7.WP.16.6.EN.pdf

DHL is a commercial carrier. The only way to transport human remains that are not embalmed would be in a gov't plane. There was no announcement of that.

[boomerangutang]

question for JDinasia: if evidence showed the headman's people were the culprits, would you accept that?

Absolutely. Real evidence not the crap from conspiracy theorists.

Question back at you. If the semen DNA matches will you accept the guilt of the 2 Burmese men? (it is a little unreasonable to think that they raped but didn't kill- there is still the rest of the circumstantial evidence)

If the semen matches, with the forensics done by reliable farang labs/technicians, then yes, I would accept that the Burmese are guilty.

[jdinasia]

question for JDinasia: if evidence showed the headman's people were the culprits, would you accept that?

Absolutely. Real evidence not the crap from conspiracy theorists.

Question back at you. If the semen DNA matches will you accept the guilt of the 2 Burmese men? (it is a little unreasonable to think that they raped but didn't kill- there is still the rest of the circumstantial evidence)

If the semen matches, with the forensics done by reliable farang labs/technicians, then yes, I would accept that the Burmese are guilty.

Defense has asked for their clients to be tested independently.

Retesting the semen and cigarette samples may or may not be possible.

[boomerangutang]

I don't see how the cigarette dna is important to this case. People toss butts. People pick up butts and take a toke. Even if Hannah's dna is on a cig butt along with one of the Burmese, that might only mean that she was at the guitar-playing gathering (away from the crime scene) for a moment in time, and perhaps someone toked on the same butt. When I was 15 to 20 years, I would often ask, even a stranger, "hey, can I have a hit?" ....of a cigarette. It's a grungy habit, but not rare among youngsters. I think the cig butt is a red herring and doesn't prove anything, regardless of who's saliva. There are much more important clues to take close looks at.

I think the same of the unused condom. Immaterial to the case, particularly because rapists don't use condoms, but also because it's a party beach and finding a condom on any given night is not unusual. It could have been there for many hours before the crime.

[jdinasia]

"In what might be an unforeseen consequence of sex education, rapists are increasingly wearing condoms. Five years ago investigators would have been surprised by a victim's statement that her assailant used a condom. Today detectives, prosecutors and counselors say that it is no longer unusual."

NYT....

Shockingly only 20 years ago. 1994

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/22/nyregion/rapists-and-condoms-is-use-a-cavalier-act-or-a-way-to-avoid-disease-and-arrest.html

[Johnsen]

I agree boomer, there really is nothing there that can positively link the boys to murder. I bet they regret ever going to have a beer on the beach that night. Wrong place wrong time. They could of course have been ordered or persuaded to go there by certain individuals. Certain individuals who were premeditating an attack.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Johnsen

[Number 3]

I agree boomer, there really is nothing there that can positively link the boys to murder. I bet they regret ever going to have a beer on the beach that night. Wrong place wrong time. They could of course have been ordered or persuaded to go there by certain individuals. Certain individuals who were premeditating an attack.

Too frenzied. I can't see after all the rapes that have occurred there In the past that anyone could foresee that David and Sean would have intervened in the way they did. If you look again at today's pic of of David in the water he has his left sock and shoe still on.

One of the perps left their shorts and mistakenly put on David's.

The drag marks towards the sea are quite frenzied whereas Hannah's drag mark towards the rocks is very light and direct. I could be wrong but I highly doubt anyone saw that night turning into the double murder tragedy that it became. Simple multiple raping of one western female victim was the expectation from my information and observations only.

[tingtongtourist]

i am correct in assuming the UK police would have been able to get the rapists DNA from Hannah? if so, isn't this a simple case of testing it against the 2 suspects DNA and then case closed?

this is what cause this whole uproar. Is now obvious that police dont have sperm DNA that match the boys otherwise the case wouldnt need to get handed back to police to fix.

my guess is that the report mentions DNA match on the lower body but not show conclusive detail.

Also read early on that the male victim was also supposed to contain DNA match but this is the absolut shambles that police have made from day 1.

I would not pay to much notice of conspiracy theorys normally, but even the other defence lawyer have wash his hands of it and pulled out.

this is what ring the biggest alarm bell to me.

Why did he pull out should be a big question?

And doesnt need sherlock holmes to suspect the answer.

The prosecution case and police has so many contradicting theory and missing opportunity for evidence even donald duck could get this one thrown out.

so what make the lawyer pull out of such a high profile case?

[Johnsen]

The question as to why in regards to everything about this case are so many its getting out of control.. Why would any human being on this planet not release or reveal everything under the sun to prove their innocence. Why would you not release video CCTV footage to prove your innocence. Why would you not show your phone records to show where you were. Why would 2 people photographed chasing Sean still be hunting people on the island who are posting on forums. Why would a T V forum have a team of 24\7 trolls. Why would a head village man offer up a reward to disprove his sons innocence. Why would police let Mon wander around a crime scene. Why would the case be sent back 3 times. It just goes on and on and on and dare I say it on...

Of course the biggest WHY. WHY DID DOH (WORAT) REFUSE TO GIVE DNA.

[boomerangutang]

so what make the lawyer pull out of such a high profile case?

If it was one of the Burmese lawyers, then it was probably a simple matter of him not having proper credentials to please Thai officialdom. If it is a frame-up, which the vast majority of interested posters think it is, then it's understandable that Thai officials would do all they can to thwart or disqualify legal defense attorneys for the scapegoats.

Remember that first photo of the 2 Burmese with Burmese attorneys? There were about 6 or 7. Where are those attorneys now?

Anyhow, if it was a Thai lawyer who pulled out, then it was most likely due to threats.

Note: a southern Thailand lawyer who was on his way to meet with Muslim defendants was killed by Thai authorities while on route. When Thai officialdom wants to get its way, don't expect them to play fair.

[Number 3]

so what make the lawyer pull out of such a high profile case?

If it was one of the Burmese lawyers, then it was probably a simple matter of him not having proper credentials to please Thai officialdom. If it is a frame-up, which the vast majority of interested posters think it is, then it's understandable that Thai officials would do all they can to thwart or disqualify legal defense attorneys for the scapegoats.

Remember that first photo of the 2 Burmese with Burmese attorneys? There were about 6 or 7. Where are those attorneys now?

Anyhow, if it was a Thai lawyer who pulled out, then it was most likely due to threats.

Note: a southern Thailand lawyer who was on his way to meet with Muslim defendants was killed by Thai authorities while on route. When Thai officialdom wants to get its way, don't expect them to play fair.

From experience with friends and colleagues it's very common in Thailand. A lawyer will accept a case then see just how insurmountable it is and the work involved and realise that they're not up for the job. He/she will make an excuse and not turn up the next day. One friend went through 5 lawyers I believe on what was a relatively simple case by western standards. You do get what you pay for though and the larger American firms are worth their weight in gold for this reason alone.

[boomerangutang]

I knew an American who had been cheated by two farang in southern Thailand. He went and spoke to a Thai attorney, and the Thai said there was nothing he could do. The next day he went and spoke to a farang attorney who got on the phone right away, spoke with the other party, and got a sizeable compensation for his American client. The phone call took about 8 minutes.

Personal experience with Thai attorneys: I went to one who I had known for 10 years and asked him to assist me with a case. He said it wasn't possible to get compensation for that particular theft. I went to another Thai lawyer, who I found online. The 2nd guy listened and hung in there, and I got most of my money back, and the 2nd lawyer got a decent 24% commission for his efforts. It just goes to show: sometimes you gotta shop around for a capable person to be your advocate.

Edited October 29, 2014 by boomerangutang

[SteveFong]

speaking of advocate's

the fact that there is a "team" of investigators from Scotland Yard invetigating the case now,

should put all of these threads to rest now

there is nowhere to go with this anymore, and the threads are degenerating into a cesspool of hearsay

I don't really see the point anymore, because the internet and social media have done their best and have brought in the best to check things out

the results are not likely going to satisfy anyone anyway, so, if it appears I am losing interest, I am not, but in the last few weeks, all this is to me now is one large rewash

[MJP]

speaking of advocate's

the fact that there is a "team" of investigators from Scotland Yard invetigating the case now,

should put all of these threads to rest now

there is nowhere to go with this anymore, and the threads are degenerating into a cesspool of hearsay

I don't really see the point anymore, because the internet and social media have done their best and have brought in the best to check things out

the results are not likely going to satisfy anyone anyway, so, if it appears I am losing interest, I am not, but in the last few weeks, all this is to me now is one large rewash

This I agree with, Steve.

These threads aren't going anywhere, haven't been for a week or so now. It's been one long deterioration into trolling, baiting and more trolling.

But there's a point to keeping a focus on this case, not letting this fade from memory, which is very important.

Very few here are going to trust information released from Thai authorities and for good reason in my opinion. I think there's not much more to be said until we have the details of the British police investigation report and coroners inquest, or reliable revelations from reputable press sources.

Don't let this fade away, but please stop using the Koh Tao topics for remorseless trolling, repeated baiting and endless speculation. Stick to the facts as they become available.

Thanks

MJP

[SteveFong]

MJP.

it is good wishing,

and, I am hopeful, but

The Thai government, and the PM himself continue to say the British are "happy" with their work.

How can message threads stay on a positive and worthy path,

if statements like this are continually being fed to the public, who was and is already distrusting, and raises the level of disgust into continously unfathomable levels?

I hope my fellow posters can keep their cools about them,

but the history of internet message threads tells me,

this is only getting worse

Fong

[JLCrab]

It is quite possible that this whole story may become a textbook case at schools of media and journalism on the impact of social media on criminal investigation and government policies regardless of the outcome.

[SteveFong]

Crab,

if it is a made for TV movie,

it will have to be a mini-series

Fong

[harrry]

I am beginning to think a little wider as things go on. Is it possible that the owner of a business when slighted could tell his son he had a problem that needed solving and his son gather a couple of work mates and then attempt to solve the problem?

And JLCrab, if you were a defence atorney...( heaven help the client) would you be the one the Judge in frustration says out loud..all I want is the facts ....do not bother me with all that law rubbish?

Edited October 30, 2014 by harrry

[JLCrab]

I am beginning to think a little wider as things go on. Is it possible that the owner of a business when slighted could tell his son he had a problem that needed solving and his son gather a couple of work mates and then attempt to solve the problem?

And JLCrab, if you were a defence atorney...( heaven help the client) would you be the one the Judge in frustration says out loud..all I want is the facts ....do not bother me with all that law rubbish?

Who would I be defending?

BTW this dialog was written by a former Justice of the Michigan (US) Supreme Court based on a real murder case where he was the defense attorney:

Judge Weaver: One judge is quite like another. The only differences may be in the state of their digestions or their proclivities for sleeping on the bench. For myself, I can digest pig iron. And while I might appear to doze occasionally, you will find that I am easily awakened, particularly if shaken gently by a good lawyer with a nice point of law.

Do real judges really refer to the law as rubbish?

Edited October 30, 2014 by JLCrab