Sleep Disorder

[flagator96]

Flagator, she recently had a full health check before this problem started and was in tip-top condition 3 months ago. She has been on medication for about 2 months now.

I do worry about the amount of medication she is taking,and the long term,

She actually did sleep in another room last night away from me, but there was still no difference, she got 4 hours and was awake from 2am onwards.

All the advice given on this thread is useful, but conflicting in a lot of ways so it's making it harder for me to know what the right thing to do is.

But please keep your comments coming, I have to get to the bottom of this problem and help her resolve it.

Thank You all

TP

TP,

The so called "Z" drugs for sleep are have a high potential for tolerance, addiction and side effects. They also destroy what we call "normal sleep architecture" for most people. Many other medications will affect sleep as well. They cannot be trusted. This can take a long time to get fixed by the body again naturally.

Modern medicine unfortunately does not have any good solution for chronic insomnia as evidenced by all the harm medications cause some of which can take years to correct. What's heartbreaking is that most doctors do not even know, recognize or take responsibility for he harmful effects of the sleep drugs, or any drugs that they prescribe. Therefore, many times the treatment is worse that the disease itself.

Most people with initial insomnia ( not able to fall asleep) may suffer from anxiety. People that suffer from terminal insomnia ( not able to go back to sleep) may suffer from depression. Although these are not "hard fast" rules many times bear some merit.

A sleep study would be beneficial to rule out sleep apnea or other sleep disorders. Sleep apnea treatment is pretty effective, but for other sleep disorders not so great especially if more toxic drugs have to utilized. Another issue / problem is that the medications are already disrupting and changing her normal sleep architecture. She may need to get off those to evaluate her sleep properly. Moreover if she does, how long is it going to take for her sleep to normalize again from the drugs in order to get an accurate sleep study and evaluation done? Nobody really knows as it can take a long time. You can see now how these medications are truly evil.

Three month old labs are not considered very current, and many medical professionals would repeat them at some point and or improvise upon them after 3 months of continuous symptoms. After all things do and can change after 3 months.

Just some thoughts to offer perspective on your situation. and talking points when you talk to your doctor.

[ThaiPauly]

There can be a number of causes. A friend of mine developed hyper sensitivity to caffeine. Being a nurse she had thought to cut out caffeine after midday. But when her sleeping problems continued she cut it out completely and hey presto she could sleep. But she has to avoid caffeine. She reckons with age (50's) something in her body just can't tolerate it. Apparently this is quite common in women, so she says.

+1

I know a woman that reacts on a glass of coke....

These are products that prevent you to GO TO SLEEP

Please note that the OP is suffering from totally different problem, which is getting waken up after 3h

The OP has no problem falling asleep.

It's a different thing all togeher

Actually no, for my friend she would sleep for about 3 hrs then wake up and be unable to get back to sleep. Then during the days as it progressed she looked more and more deprived of sleep.

[ThaiPauly]

Did your friend eventually overcome this problem Sally?

[cmsally]

Did your friend eventually overcome this problem Sally?

Yes , she did but it means totally no caffeine for her at all. Absolutely no coffee, coke, normal tea etc

Another avenue to follow is the breathing/respiratory one. If I have a sinus infection, I will wake up religiously after 3hrs sleep (you can almost time me exactly). I can normally go back to sleep again. But I had a period of a few months when I had a really bad sinus infection where I would wake up and not be able to sleep again. Normally I sleep like a log with no problems. It took me a while to work out what the cause was, but it was 100% sinus.

[Kitsune]

Any update?

[bina]

kitzune thats not quite true.

my daughter (21) has had insomnia issues for the past year or so meaning that she would fall alseep usually no problem but at some point she would wake up and couldnt fall back asleep which most people are able to do. the same way an infant is TAUGHT to send itself back to sleep after a certain age, if not needing food or a change; my duaghter is of course also in the army, which isnt conducive to sleep due to stress (israel, remember) but she is a 'daily/at home nites' soldier, so sleeps in her own place/bed here except for the bi monthly or so guard duty on base in teh middle of a forest near a 'hot' situation (which due to situation here is causing stress levels to get to new heights as the girls guard alone... nuther story) HOWEVER;

some THEORIES WERE GIVEN TO HER:

1/ she is asthmatic and always allergic so they wanted her to do a sleep lab checkup thinking sleep apnea (could be). she refused because she 1/ wants to get her drivers liscense, and b/ just doesnt want to do so.

2/ the army physician gave her valium which i refused, as she is asthmatic and is countraindicitive.

3/ she turned to the army psychologist and said she felt stressed, anxious, her job requires her certain amounts of responsibility and she mostly cant sleep from saturday hight to sunday (the first work day of the week) so obviously it is anxiety related. but then the cycle continues.

the psychologist sent her to a psychiatrist (all army, so not wonderfully pleasant, they jsut want to make sure the patient isnt suicidal) and was given a presicpt for ciprelex ESTO and told never to take valium (duh). the cip she started as half dose in morning as the evening dose caused her more insomina, however her stress level is slightly reduced and

4/cognitive: she was so afraid that she wouldnt sleep that she wasn unable to stay asleep, and the cycle just went on. she suffers very much from lack of sleep, her irritation level is very high as is her capability to concentrate. needless to say the guard duty interupts the attempts she makes to get on schedule but army is army....

however, there seems to be some improvement: she has an evening routine of no tv pior to sleep; light excercise wehn arriving home not too close to sleep time, and working on mindful breathing as a relaxation method. the counselling is short term for handling immeditate concerns and mild obsessions (fear of missing important details that could be life and death for a unit, or endless running over in her mind of details thinking she missed something, when there is in fact others with her on the team)and also basic personality issues of her own (boyfriend/future blablablba) that she needs sorted, and the last:

5/linking in with menstrual cycle hormones.

the point being that 1/ menopause =sleep problems. if i am woken up nowadays, that is it. i cant go back to sleep. so i ahve requested to not have night shift emergency duty for the hotel. once im woken, i cant sleep and therefore wont come in to my day shift.

2. issues

3. my duaghter was given , prior to the ESTO , more over the counter type sleep pills that only worked twice. the ESTO seems to be the trick, and its not a sleep drug but a 'happy pill' type... and to quote her (sad to say) half of the army is getting it.

4. cognitive tricks (she may be so worried about waking up and not geting back to sleep that she is actually waking up.

lack of sleep is a real concern, and unfortunately, most of the sleep apnea and other factors are more male oriented. women need to be dealt with diferently and only now sleep labs and doctors are understanding that. usually its a combination of things together and not just a medical problem as it is hard to separate the two when someone is tired sa tiredness instigates depression and vice versa. she also gets symbicort (with ventolin which sometimes increases anxiety and fast heartbeat)

my duaghter is also a migraine sufferer which seems to also be a factor in susceptibilty in insomnia and other things from what she was told, rightly or not i dont know... once out of army she will be doing also the sleep lab tests as well. there were a few days where she didnt sleep for a few days for more the a few hours and was sent home early on sick leave. now that she feels that she is being taken care of, things seem to be evening out a bit, and i can only hope that the same will be for your wife as well.

[Kitsune]

How is asking for updates "not quite true" ???

My name is KitSune with an S, like the franco-japanese music label and like also Kitsune Soba which was my favorite food before my CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome).

Edited November 10, 2014 by Kitsune

[thaipod]

Try accupunture. I went through a spell of not getting enough sleep and it helped me.

[ThaiPauly]

She is no better.

She is now on a combination of four different drugs.

She still looks a shadow of her former self and is very insecure where she used to be a very secure vibrant person.

She went for counseling, but did not want to go again, although I said she should , she won't and there is not much I can do about that, she just does not feel comfortable talking about herself to outsiders.

She got the latest concoction of drugs from Chiang Mai Ram hospitals sleep disorder clinic, and has only been taking them 2 days so we will have to wait and see what kind of results they achieve, but I am very worried about the amount of drugs she is taking and how she is going to get off them.

It's a vicious circle because she says she is not depressed about anything, but she is now surely depressed regarding her current situation.

I am really hoping that the new drugs have a positive effect.

[Patsycat]

Hi TP, long time... don't worry i am not going all Zen on you!!

From personal experience.

I, silly and weird as it is, put on one of those sleepytime videos on u tube. No need to look at the pretty pictures, just relax with them in a well ventilated, dark room. And listen. And the windchimes or whatever just make you drift.. which could help with the addition of a light sleeping pill.

Insomnia is horrible, you are awake but tired and feel like crap.

Strange, for me, but that music just relaxed me to be able to finally relax and then to sleep.

And i slept the 12 hours that i had lost before.

It works for some but not for others.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Patsycat

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Patsy, nice to hear from you.

It's not getting to sleep she has a problem with, its staying asleep longer than 3-4 hours that's the problem

[Patsycat]

When you go to the doctors - ask about the menopause, it may be a hormonal thing.

Kisses and good luck to you both.

[cmsally]

Hi Patsy, nice to hear from you.

It's not getting to sleep she has a problem with, its staying asleep longer than 3-4 hours that's the problem

Sorry to hear your wife is still suffering. Has she been checked out medically? Is she basically medically clear but just the sleep problem?

If that is the case I'm making a guess in presuming your wife is in the age range of about 42-50 yrs, because I think it could be a whole load of things combining together. It sounds a lot like what I went through not long ago.

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Sally,

Thanks for your concern, my wife is 48 so it might be what you say.

She had a full medical not so long ago and was given a clean bill of health...before these problems started.

[cmsally]

Does your wife simply wake up and cannot go back to sleep or is it a case of waking up and feeling a bit dazed or panicky ?

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Sally,

She just wakes up at 2 or 3 am and lies in bed till about 6am.

She does not feel panicky

[slipperylobster]

I had the same problem... For me, it is stress, and a sort of night panic due to breathing irregularities. I have the feeling that I am not able to breathe when settling down for sleep. It scares me quite a bit, and I end up pacing around the house until I am tired enough.

Good news, I bought a real comfortable lazy boy chair, and hooked up my large tv screen to my laptop. I also keep a remote keyboard and mouse next to the chair. Now, I do realize it is not what professionals will recommend, but when ever I get that feeling of not being able to breath (probably sleep apnea), I recline in the chair and fiddle around on the computer until I fall asleep. It actually works, and I get more sleep in the chair than I do in bed. Funny thing is...reading the thai visa forums really knocks me out.

My brother and my mom both use a "sleeping machine". It is pretty much just a mask strapped over the nose and mouth and a pressure setting. This forces the air into your lungs, using slight pressure...and keeps your airway open. (Loose muscles there). I just panic even putting a mask on. It is psychological...for me...Perhaps a phobia.

Sleeping pills can be addictive. I used to drink quite a lot and the combination almost killed me. The side effects were devastating. Pure depression, anxiety and hallucinations. Anyways, that is just a quick, temporary fix that hides the real problem. Most of these sleeping medications warn against long/frequent use. Addictive and dangerous. First you take one, then two, then three...it is like your body builds up some kind of immunity. If she goes that route, make sure her doctor knows what else she is taking. It was a horror story...for me ten years ago.

Edited November 22, 2014 by slipperylobster

[cmsally]

Is your wife fit enough to do some exercise such as 10-15mins on a treadmill. If she is get her to try it, basically some exercise to raise pulse and at the same time this will shrink the turbinates which will improve breathing. Then before bed a long hot shower or bath. As long as it doesn't make her worse she could try that for a few days in a row and see if there is any improvement.

[ThaiPauly]

Is your wife fit enough to do some exercise such as 10-15mins on a treadmill. If she is get her to try it, basically some exercise to raise pulse and at the same time this will shrink the turbinates which will improve breathing. Then before bed a long hot shower or bath. As long as it doesn't make her worse she could try that for a few days in a row and see if there is any improvement.

She's doing both Sally, even 30 minutes on the treadmill every other day and a shower before bed most nights

[cmsally]

If she is doing both those already, have you seen any improvement?

If she is up to it yoga is very good to, something for the upper body and posture, that's a great help in sleeping.

[PaulKemp]

Hey there Pauly,

I came across your thread and it seems to me, even though I don't fall into the same demographic at all, I have a very similar problem.
It's been a few years now and I have been researching the hell out of it, meanwhile going through as many doctors as possible...

Unfortunately I havent been successful yet at all, but hopefully I can give you some insight into where to look for the answers.

The waking at 3am could be caused by a number of different things- but it is likely that stress has a big part to play.
I would recommend seeing a sleep specialist, and then definitely doing a sleep study to see why and where the problem is coming from. In my experience, endocrinologists won't even realize that the endocrine system plays a part in sleep and will be useless. /rant But it might be useful going to one just to get hormones tested.

Ive lived with this condition for a while now, and I can testify that it is an absolute nightmare. Sometimes the answers dont come easily but I can definitely empathize with what your wife is going through. Keep searching!

[ThaiPauly]

If she is doing both those already, have you seen any improvement?

If she is up to it yoga is very good to, something for the upper body and posture, that's a great help in sleeping.

Unfortunately not Sally,

She has not tried yoga yet, but it's something we are thinking about

[ThaiPauly]

Hey there Pauly,

I came across your thread and it seems to me, even though I don't fall into the same demographic at all, I have a very similar problem.

It's been a few years now and I have been researching the hell out of it, meanwhile going through as many doctors as possible...

Unfortunately I havent been successful yet at all, but hopefully I can give you some insight into where to look for the answers.

The waking at 3am could be caused by a number of different things- but it is likely that stress has a big part to play.

I would recommend seeing a sleep specialist, and then definitely doing a sleep study to see why and where the problem is coming from. In my experience, endocrinologists won't even realize that the endocrine system plays a part in sleep and will be useless. /rant But it might be useful going to one just to get hormones tested.

Ive lived with this condition for a while now, and I can testify that it is an absolute nightmare. Sometimes the answers dont come easily but I can definitely empathize with what your wife is going through. Keep searching!

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your post, a sleep study is something we are looking into......in fact we are looking into every possible cure. This is why I posted the thread on Thai Visa, the responses I have been getting have helped to point me in the right direction

Thank You

[Patsycat]

A few drops of lavender essential oils on the pillow is supposed to help. Or a bath with lavender bubbles.

God, i miss my bath!! Showers just wake me up.

[thaipod]

There is a tablet called Melatonin that my daughters friend used for one of her children that had a sleep disorder, and said it worked well.You can google it.

[PaulKemp]

No worries! In the mean time I would suggest trying to de-stress as much as possible. It may not cure the insomnia, but it will lessen the impact on her nervous system.

Some of the suggestions in here are great. Yoga, herbal teas, meditation style breathing, all that hippie stuff can help. Decrease exposure to bright light in the evening, including computers. Unplug about an hour or more before bed. Stay away from sugars, processed foods, chocolate, etc.

[Sheryl]

If she is doing both those already, have you seen any improvement?

If she is up to it yoga is very good to, something for the upper body and posture, that's a great help in sleeping.

Unfortunately not Sally,

She has not tried yoga yet, but it's something we are thinking about

Meditation would also likely be a big help. She may still wake up, but when she does she can practice the meditation until she falls back asleep. Even if she remains awake for some time, if she does so lying down meditating it will serve much the same function as sleep in terms of resting body and mind. See this link for authentic courses in Lamphun http://www.simanta.dhamma.org/ or have your wife go to the Thai language website http://www.thai.dhamma.org/

Also do not overlook possible hormonal cause - if her periods are no longer completely regular this may be menopause related and if so, HRT can bring considerable relief. There is also a blood tests (FSH - need to do early in menstrual cycle) that can help tell if she is nearing menopause.

[Kitsune]

Hi Patsy, nice to hear from you.

It's not getting to sleep she has a problem with, its staying asleep longer than 3-4 hours that's the problem

I fully understand it's a nightmare.

Some of my symptoms are back since I am not being so strict on my diet and I sleep around 3/4H a night

Every night I go to sleep around 10/11pm and I wake up between 1 and 4pm and it's impossible to get back to sleep

It has been going on for a couple of weeks now and I feel like a zombie.

It is very difficult to concentrate everything is a challenge.

Worse; I start having some micro sleeps now during the day and suddenly doze off in public.

[mania]

Hi TP, long time... don't worry i am not going all Zen on you!!

From personal experience.

I, silly and weird as it is, put on one of those sleepytime videos on u tube. No need to look at the pretty pictures, just relax with them in a well ventilated, dark room. And listen. And the windchimes or whatever just make you drift.. which could help with the addition of a light sleeping pill.

Insomnia is horrible, you are awake but tired and feel like crap.

Strange, for me, but that music just relaxed me to be able to finally relax and then to sleep.

And i slept the 12 hours that i had lost before.

It works for some but not for others.

Hi Patsy, nice to hear from you.

It's not getting to sleep she has a problem with, its staying asleep longer than 3-4 hours that's the problem

Hi Pauly

Sorry to merge these two posts but thought if i just quoted yours you may not

know what I am referring to

Sorry to hear your wife is still suffering. On the background music/white noise

Patsy is referring to.....It is actually for both falling asleep as well as staying asleep which is why

they have recordings of various lengths including many 8hr recordings.

Maybe have your wife try one as they are free & may help?

Good luck....

Edited November 29, 2014 by mania

[ThaiPauly]

Good news.

Melatonin seems to be doing the trick.

She managed 6 hours last night, three days into taking it.

Thanks to all that have participated in this thread

TP