In the context of Thailand, what is a digital nomad?

[phpsql]

@ Moderating team

I think this thread has run its course. Kindly close it.

You may also wish to look carefully at your moderation policies, especially with regards to trolling and posting with the intent of derailing threads.

[mrtoad]

You seem to be upset that people disagree with your definition of a nomad.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Trust me your hopelessly wrong as well,

Let's do away with the childishness, okay?

Drop it.

Seems like you are setting the rules for this discussion, have exception to differing views?

Both the poster's views that you are disputing are correct, there is a foreign element who are engaged in illegal internet activities (by law) operating in Thailand. That is a fact. Some of which are classifying themselves as digital nomads.

It is you that appears to have the childish mindset here, its my OP and I only want to see what I agree with.

For's and against's make for a debate, they also make for an argument, lets try to come to a compromise, eh?......................

[Soutpeel]

You seem to be upset that people disagree with your definition of a nomad.

Another member of the ALBC me thinks

[chrisinth]

Many years ago, when asked what I did on a trip to America I used to say that I was a traveler in plastics, contracted by the British Ministry of Defence.

In reality, I was an able seaman in the Royal Navy drafted to a 'plastic' (GRP hulled) minesweeper.

Whereas the top job description is true, in reality it is really BS of a high caliber. When I hear someone classing themselves as a digital nomad I get flashbacks to the above.

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

What does upset annoy me are the self proclaimed DM's that think they are special in respect to visas and being recognized for what they think they are. If they want to settle somewhere, lose the Nomad and replace with Worker.

IMHO of course........................

[rwdrwdrwd]

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

Plenty of well established companies are operated with very significant levels of remote workers. AMEX, AT&T, Cisco, Deloitte, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, RedHat, Canonical, Mozilla, Automattic, 37Signals, Github, StackExchange to name a few. Not talking outsourcing here, I'm talking Western rates working from home on a permanent basis wherever that may be in the world, and indeed travelling and working, ie 'nomadic'. It's a factor in many major companies these days - big perk.

Those well established companies you reference may well assign remote workers to your job, could be the guy that some people on here assume makes cash from fogging fake Louis Vuitton on eBay.

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[NanLaew]

Before the Mods close it, what is ALBC please? I have been 'internet challenged' for several days and I am missing some of the newer, more subtle nuances of digital pikey baiting TV speak.

Edited October 26, 2014 by NanLaew

[rwdrwdrwd]

Assumed Law Breaking Club perhaps?

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[manarak]

Or you could learn the markets and trade forex. More earning potential when you know what your doing

I do know FOREX traders in Thailand, but I'm not sure if they can be classed as "digital nomads". What do you think?

Frankly, I believe that successful traders need an office.

Well, I was a corporate trader in the past with licences for 4 regulated exchanges and trading 20 others (multi asset) - I can tell you that as a sole trader one doesn't need an office, especially if only trading very simple instruments such as currencies.

[mrtoad]

Before the Mods close it, what is ALBC please? I have been 'internet challenged' for several days and I am missing some of the newer, more subtle nuances of digital pikey baiting TV speak.

I believe the definition is in the TV Slang dictionary in pub

[manarak]

Reading through the thread, it appears very clear to me that a few members need more than just a warning.

If the thread gets just deleted instead of the appropriate bans handed out, I would feel that the harassers got rewarded instead of punished.

My personal opinion on the matter:

- I couldn't care less about people working alone from their home on a computer on foreign online business. I don't quite get why some people get their panties in a twist over this, even the Chiang Mai immigration commander said it's tolerable. Online workers do not take jobs away from Thais.

- Taxation: if the revenue has nothing to do with Thailand, why should it be taxed in Thailand. This is the same logic as pensions paid abroad. Furthermore, the Thai tax system has a specific provision on the matter, saying that if the foreign income can be buffered abroad for 12 months, then it can be imported into Thailand tax-free. THAT is the LAW.

Besides, if Thailand decided to crack down, for example by taxing all funds remitted from abroad with 20%, people would just move elsewhere instead of spending their money in Thailand.

That is, people who can move. Maybe this is an important espect of the "nomad" word, maybe it's not that important if people do really move, but rather if they COULD move if need be.

- regarding visa status: why should anyone care? The majority of visa threads on the forum are by people who want to stay long term but don't qualify for long term visas.

As there is the Thailand Elite scheme for 5 years, staying long term in Thailand is noch much of a problem. It's simply a question of money, and using ED or tourist visas is simply a way to not pay the full fee. Again, why get angry over what is just a money question?

As I stated in the other thread, my opinion is that this is simply a question of visceral dislike and also jealousy by some people because they don't consider online work as real work, because they consider the work is too easy, because they don't have the same flexibility in working hours and location and because they probably also dislike the "internet smartasses"...

[Soutpeel]

Before the Mods close it, what is ALBC please? I have been 'internet challenged' for several days and I am missing some of the newer, more subtle nuances of digital pikey baiting TV speak.

I believe the definition is in the TV Slang dictionary in pub

Reviewing the TV slang dictionary I see a definition of " ALBC" is still lacking

But if I remember correctly ALBC stands for Angry Little Boys Club,

I think it refers to those posters who are full of self entitlement and if get taken to task, they get very angry and start throwing hissy fits, like a little man child, stamping their little feet and stating its not fair, as far as I am aware a ALBCer may or may not be a digital pikeys as well in some cases

Edited October 26, 2014 by Soutpeel

[mrtoad]

Time for you to update it then sir

[Soutpeel]

...

This was a misjustice in the freedoms of speak of each and all members.

Hark! A TEFL'er speaketh thus.

Don't confuse them, I don't think they study the works of the bard in their TEFL course

"Alas poor pikey I knew him well "

Edited October 26, 2014 by Soutpeel

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

Plenty of well established companies are operated with very significant levels of remote workers. AMEX, AT&T, Cisco, Deloitte, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, RedHat, Canonical, Mozilla, Automattic, 37Signals, Github, StackExchange to name a few. Not talking outsourcing here, I'm talking Western rates working from home on a permanent basis wherever that may be in the world, and indeed travelling and working, ie 'nomadic'. It's a factor in many major companies these days - big perk.

Those well established companies you reference may well assign remote workers to your job, could be the guy that some people on here assume makes cash from fogging fake Louis Vuitton on eBay.

So, these are digital nomads? They have the freedom to work from anywhere in the world remotely while under the employ of the established company?

Great! I really do think it is great that people can do that. Nothing against it.

But I will guarantee these are not the people making the songs and dances that they should be treated differently.

I would be very interested to see the policies or contracts from the established companies that you highlighted about remote working and the laws that govern work in the countries they represent said companies..........................

[mrtoad]

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

Plenty of well established companies are operated with very significant levels of remote workers. AMEX, AT&T, Cisco, Deloitte, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, RedHat, Canonical, Mozilla, Automattic, 37Signals, Github, StackExchange to name a few. Not talking outsourcing here, I'm talking Western rates working from home on a permanent basis wherever that may be in the world, and indeed travelling and working, ie 'nomadic'. It's a factor in many major companies these days - big perk.

Those well established companies you reference may well assign remote workers to your job, could be the guy that some people on here assume makes cash from fogging fake Louis Vuitton on eBay.

So, these are digital nomads? They have the freedom to work from anywhere in the world remotely while under the employ of the established company?

Great! I really do think it is great that people can do that. Nothing against it.

But I will guarantee these are not the people making the songs and dances that they should be treated differently.

I would be very interested to see the policies or contracts from the established companies that you highlighted about remote working and the laws that govern work in the countries they represent said companies..........................

They don't exist.

[Soutpeel]

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

Plenty of well established companies are operated with very significant levels of remote workers. AMEX, AT&T, Cisco, Deloitte, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, RedHat, Canonical, Mozilla, Automattic, 37Signals, Github, StackExchange to name a few. Not talking outsourcing here, I'm talking Western rates working from home on a permanent basis wherever that may be in the world, and indeed travelling and working, ie 'nomadic'. It's a factor in many major companies these days - big perk.

Those well established companies you reference may well assign remote workers to your job, could be the guy that some people on here assume makes cash from fogging fake Louis Vuitton on eBay.

So, these are digital nomads? They have the freedom to work from anywhere in the world remotely while under the employ of the established company?

Great! I really do think it is great that people can do that. Nothing against it.

But I will guarantee these are not the people making the songs and dances that they should be treated differently.

I would be very interested to see the policies or contracts from the established companies that you highlighted about remote working and the laws that govern work in the countries they represent said companies..........................

I work for an MNC in Thailand, and looking at some of the names mentioned, due to good corporate governance polices that will be in place within these companies, they would only employ a person directly in country where that person has right of abode or is legally permitted to work, its just not worth the hassle for say the likes of Microsoft to employ a foreigner directly who is living in Thailand and doesn't have a WP, big corporations they will not allow this to happen

So if there are foreigner's in Thailand working for say Microsoft 1 they either have a WP sponsored by Microsoft or 2 as the person is working remotely, he or she is not telling Microsoft were they are living

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As with most posters here, I have nothing against these people as they don't affect my job or way of life here in any way. If I need a technical service for work, I will approach a well established company. If I need a website done, I will either do it myself or approach a well established company. Always been that way, always will be that way.

Plenty of well established companies are operated with very significant levels of remote workers. AMEX, AT&T, Cisco, Deloitte, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, RedHat, Canonical, Mozilla, Automattic, 37Signals, Github, StackExchange to name a few. Not talking outsourcing here, I'm talking Western rates working from home on a permanent basis wherever that may be in the world, and indeed travelling and working, ie 'nomadic'. It's a factor in many major companies these days - big perk.

Those well established companies you reference may well assign remote workers to your job, could be the guy that some people on here assume makes cash from fogging fake Louis Vuitton on eBay.

So, these are digital nomads? They have the freedom to work from anywhere in the world remotely while under the employ of the established company?

Great! I really do think it is great that people can do that. Nothing against it.

But I will guarantee these are not the people making the songs and dances that they should be treated differently.

I would be very interested to see the policies or contracts from the established companies that you highlighted about remote working and the laws that govern work in the countries they represent said companies..........................

They don't exist.

Yeah, I know. I think the poster is getting mixed up with working from home and working from where they like.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Yes, they do. You can pretend to yourself that they do not, that's fine, but I can state categorically, having direct experience in such matters, that you are 100% incorrect. Of course nobody is going to post confidential agreements to ThaiVisa in order to disprove you, that would be stupid. But if you don't recognise that there is no legal reason why such contracts cannot exist, and that many do, you're simply burying your head in the sand.

The contracts I have seen do not tend to go into any detail regarding where the individual is located or will be located, since it is an irrelevance in the event the individual is not dealing with clients or representing the company to clients in that nation.

Sometimes these contracts are straight employment contracts, generally when this is the case the employee has citizenship and a social security number in the same country as the employer, receives payment in that country and is usually taxed as if they lived there.

Sometimes in the case where the employer and employee are from different countries, contracts are executed as consulting agreements via a b2b agreement, with the consultant making use of companies registered offshore and operating on an invoice basis. This is probably the most common solution, since it is simple to execute and the consultant's holding company becomes entirely responsible for adhering to any applicable employment and tax legislation.

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[mrtoad]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

[rwdrwdrwd]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of the client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[NanLaew]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of the client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

As long as we know the difference and acknowledge that "akin to" does not and never, ever will mean "same as".

[rwdrwdrwd]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of the client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

As long as we know the difference and acknowledge that "akin to" does not and never, ever will mean "same as".

Sure, however I have also seen direct employment contracts utilised when people work remotely from another country and indeed travel around. Rarer though - the other approach is a win/win for both client and consultant in many ways, since it entails far less beaurocracy.

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[mrtoad]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of lthe client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

I don't doubt that but I think we are talking about a totally different type of worker. A lot on TVF are not real nomads.

Many are scratching around on ED visas, they are unlikely to be working for MNCs

[Soutpeel]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of the client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

No they are not, the work has been outsourced to a subcontracted company,

but seeing as you have brought this up, seeing as you say this is a kin to permanent employment, if a person is resident in Thailand and fulfilling the terms of this contract from Thailand, eg providing the service they are contacted to do, they are working / running a business in Thailand, ergo a WP is required

Edited October 26, 2014 by Soutpeel

[jspill]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

I don't doubt that but I think we are talking about a totally different type of worker. A lot on TVF are not real nomads.

Many are scratching around on ED visas, they are unlikely to be working for MNCs

I'm happy that you seem to be coming round to the idea that some nomads are ok.

So if I spent say 179 days in Thailand, 179 in Vietnam, 2 in Phillippines, and lived like this for the next 30 years on tourist visas working online, legally avoiding tax for the rest of my life, what would be your thoughts on that?

[mrtoad]

Jspill i have no thoughts on you.

[jspill]

Also happy to see the thread still up although you had no answer to some of the points I brought up, and instead switched to ad hominem attacks.

Edited October 26, 2014 by jspill

[Soutpeel]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

I don't doubt that but I think we are talking about a totally different type of worker. A lot on TVF are not real nomads.

Many are scratching around on ED visas, they are unlikely to be working for MNCs

I'm happy that you seem to be coming round to the idea that some nomads are ok.

So if I spent say 179 days in Thailand, 179 in Vietnam, 2 in Phillippines, and lived like this for the next 30 years on tourist visas working online, legally avoiding tax for the rest of my life, what would be your thoughts on that?

If you didn't have a WP you still would be working illegally in Thailand for those 179 days that's my thought Edited October 26, 2014 by Soutpeel

[rwdrwdrwd]

They are likely out source contract workers. Not direcf employees

Certainly, especially in the case where the citizenship of the consultant differs from that of the client. Does not detract from the fact that long term rolling remote consultancy agreements including equity to the consultant exist, with the consultant also being the sole director of the company that is contracted, and with benefits to the consultant via contractual agreement that are akin to permanent employment.

No they are not, the work has been outsourced to a subcontracted company,

but seeing as you have brought this up, seeing as you say this is a kin to permanent employment, if a person is resident in Thailand and fulfilling the terms of this contract from Thailand, eg providing the service they are contacted to do, they are working / running a business in Thailand, ergo a WP is required

Debatable, particularly if they are operating via a non Thai entity. They are working remotely for that company, not operating a Thai business, servicing Thai clients or being paid in Thailand.

Edited October 26, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd