Zinc Rainwater Gutters

[DD13]

Hi Folks

Like many...... I have what seems to be "normal" here......leaking & rusting guttering around the property......

In hindsight..... I should have told the developer to "Red Oxide" the whole of the material (inside & out)....before installation......but being new to Thailand.... was unaware of the extent of damage this climate can cause...

So my request is.....for suggestions of a "Reliable" installation/maintenance people/persons.....for replacement and repairs to the existing guttering....

Many thanks

ps. I was sent some a couple of..."cowboys"... by a neighbour.......who thought that using silicone for the joints was acceptable......they were quickly shown the door

my friend has since admitted that after a couple of weeks rain....the silicone joints have...... "given up the ghost".......no surprise there

[justsignedin]

Got the same crap guttering myself, sounds like I had the same cowboys as you come to repair it. They had a look at it and said this particular downspout had corroded because it was in close proximity to the septic tank. So I said to replace it with stainless steel, I was a bit dubious about the silicone but I let it go, needless to say that joint leaks like hell. That was about 2 years ago, since then a multitude of holes have appeared, and it looks like the whole lot needs replacing.

I know it's nice to have guttering which works efficiently, but I'm starting to think we would be better off without it, we've had rats climb up the guttering into the ceiling space, and then work their way down behind the kitchen cupboards and chew their way into the cupboards and ultimately the food. They do place a grill at the top of the spouts to prevent this, but they don't last long, it also makes an inviting spot for birds to build a nest.

Sorry I can't make any suggestions for you, but I too would like to find a viable alternative.

[lopburi3]

Believe most people pay for SS gutters if they want lasting service. Although they do seem to have various plastic alternatives available now.

[fosseway]

I have used the Zinc guttering here on several houses, the joints are usually soldered, most contractors are highly skilled in this specialist work, even prefabricating swan neck sections with the aid of a pair of metal snippers and a soldering iron.!!

To red oxide the completed gutter would be a good idea, prior to undercoat and top coat, as the zinc content in the metal is not that high.

Sorry but I don't have the contractors contact details to hand, but I think my partner has them on his phone, will let you know if this is the case.

[JoePai]

Why not use plastic - I have fitted it to my property, not difficult ?

[fatfather]

Thais usually use the zinc gutter because they collect the rain water for drinking and cooking. These gutters properly installed and soldered will last for many years. I use mine at home for eight years already and have no problems with it.

Fatfather

[impulse]

Why not use plastic - I have fitted it to my property, not difficult ?

I wouldn't expect plastic to hold up in the tropical sun, especially plastic made in a backward factory.

Problem is figuring out which are the backward factories, and which factories make their materials with proper UV protection.

Seems a little riskier than steel. At least with steel, you can see the deterioration long before the catastrophic failure. Brittle plastic just gives up the ghost one day....

[Anthony5]

I have used the Zinc guttering here on several houses, the joints are usually soldered, most contractors are highly skilled in this specialist work, even prefabricating swan neck sections with the aid of a pair of metal snippers and a soldering iron.!!

To red oxide the completed gutter would be a good idea, prior to undercoat and top coat, as the zinc content in the metal is not that high.

Sorry but I don't have the contractors contact details to hand, but I think my partner has them on his phone, will let you know if this is the case.

The zinc gutters are galvanized, and red oxide or any other paint doesn't stick to it because it has grease all over it. If you want to paint it you will first have to remove that grease with some kind of acid, so at the same time you remove the protection film.

There are some epoxy primers available, but expensive.

At the end they will still rust if they aren't mounted with the correct slope, since water will not drain from certain spots.

If you have lengths of over 5 meters you will regret that you have them, because they expand every morning, with loud noises, and crimp again in the evening, with similar noises.

The only way to prevent that is to have flexible weldings every 3 meters or so, but weldings are never flexible, so you need to replace the welding with silicone or bitumen tape. After a while these will loosen and you have leakage. If they aren't placed correctly water will collect under the tape or silicone and you get a nice hole after a while.

Stainless or uPvc is the way to go but Stainless is next to impossible to paint, while uPvc are pretty pompous at the corners and where the down pipes connect.

If money is no problem, copper gutters last a lifetime and are a charm to the eye as well.

[justsignedin]

I have used the Zinc guttering here on several houses, the joints are usually soldered, most contractors are highly skilled in this specialist work, even prefabricating swan neck sections with the aid of a pair of metal snippers and a soldering iron.!!

To red oxide the completed gutter would be a good idea, prior to undercoat and top coat, as the zinc content in the metal is not that high.

Sorry but I don't have the contractors contact details to hand, but I think my partner has them on his phone, will let you know if this is the case.

The zinc gutters are galvanized, and red oxide or any other paint doesn't stick to it because it has grease all over it. If you want to paint it you will first have to remove that grease with some kind of acid, so at the same time you remove the protection film.

There are some epoxy primers available, but expensive.

At the end they will still rust if they aren't mounted with the correct slope, since water will not drain from certain spots.

If you have lengths of over 5 meters you will regret that you have them, because they expand every morning, with loud noises, and crimp again in the evening, with similar noises.

The only way to prevent that is to have flexible weldings every 3 meters or so, but weldings are never flexible, so you need to replace the welding with silicone or bitumen tape. After a while these will loosen and you have leakage. If they aren't placed correctly water will collect under the tape or silicone and you get a nice hole after a while.

Stainless or uPvc is the way to go but Stainless is next to impossible to paint, while uPvc are pretty pompous at the corners and where the down pipes connect.

If money is no problem, copper gutters last a lifetime and are a charm to the eye as well.

.................................................................................... take your pick......

[fosseway]

Anthony 5,

Firstly I was unaware zinc was galvanized, If that was the case why the need to put grease all over it, the guttering I used did not have any grease. re. your comment on Quote, slope, the standard 'Fall' for guttering is 1 in10.

I don't know what you mean by "flexible welding"

As mentioned by impulse, most UPVC sold here would not usually stand up to the heat, and would age harden an discolour over time.

As for copper, the size of the section required here to take our tropical downpours,would require it to be fabricated from a very heavy gauge, because cooper is a very soft material. In UK it is sometimes used for church roofs, ( but the cheaper choice is lead ). also some small section guttering usually 4 or 5 inch, with a flange on both edges for added strength. The cost of using cooper here would be astronomical, even if you could find the material. To use this this type of high end material together with the usual build quality found here of single skin walls, aluminum framed, single glazed windows and doors, and with insulation 'U' values of around zero would not stack up to me especially if you were hoping on selling for a profit some day.

So for me, it would be back to my original post, using zinc, with soldered joints, red oxide with finishing coats of a good quality oil paint.

[fosseway]

Sorry ​re my previous misleading post with quote, 'insulation 'U' values of around zero' should be very high 'U, Values.

Edited October 27, 2014 by fosseway

[ClutchClark]

Zinc gutters are typically over 99% zinc with traces of copper included. Maybe even titanium.

Galvanization is the surface application of a zinc coating.

It is not necessary to apply a coating over a zinc gutter, the initial oxidation process creates a protective patina against corrosion.

They are very costly.

[craigt3365]

I don't know what type of gutters we have, but they are not SS and not plastic. Our builder recommended against SS for several reasons, but that was 5 years ago and I can't remember what they were. Price was one of the issues.

So...we got the metal gutters. After 2 years, we started to get some leaks. We found a fantastic gutter guy after a cowboy came over and ripped us off for 8k Baht. The new guy applied a coating to the inside and it was great for the next few years. We had another leak and finally found another wonderful gutter guy. The other one is just too busy and never answers his phone...typical.

If you need a good gutter guy, let me know where you live and I'll see if he covers that area. He fixed out problem quickly and cheaply. Very professional.

[Anthony5]

Anthony 5,

Firstly I was unaware zinc was galvanized, If that was the case why the need to put grease all over it, the guttering I used did not have any grease. re. your comment on Quote, slope, the standard 'Fall' for guttering is 1 in10.

I don't know what you mean by "flexible welding"

As mentioned by impulse, most UPVC sold here would not usually stand up to the heat, and would age harden an discolour over time.

As for copper, the size of the section required here to take our tropical downpours,would require it to be fabricated from a very heavy gauge, because cooper is a very soft material. In UK it is sometimes used for church roofs, ( but the cheaper choice is lead ). also some small section guttering usually 4 or 5 inch, with a flange on both edges for added strength. The cost of using cooper here would be astronomical, even if you could find the material. To use this this type of high end material together with the usual build quality found here of single skin walls, aluminum framed, single glazed windows and doors, and with insulation 'U' values of around zero would not stack up to me especially if you were hoping on selling for a profit some day.

So for me, it would be back to my original post, using zinc, with soldered joints, red oxide with finishing coats of a good quality oil paint.

There are no zinc gutters in Thailand, it is metal sheet galvanized with zinc.

If you doubt me comments that a zinc galvanized gutter isn't just a 1-2-3 job to paint take a look here.

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=8a25c9dc4812d310VgnVCM100000176310acRCRD

A metal gutter expands in the hot sun, and if the parts can't slide over each other the welding will break, that's why every so many meters the joint should be elastic.Or why do you think that everyones gutters leak at the weldings?

Increase in 50 ft Length of Material Due to an Increase in Temperature of 100° Fahrenheit

Galvanized Steel Copper Stainless Steel Aluminum Zinc

Increase (in inches) 13/32" 5/8" 5/8" 25/32" 1 1/32"

Take a look at the site below which will explain you the expanding

http://www.citysheetmetal.com/faq.html

uPvc is what the name says, unplasticized PVC. uPvc doesn't brittle in the sun, Pvc does, otherwise all the uPvc doors and windows would fall apart in Thailand.

I think I made it clear when I said, if money is no problem, that copper gutters are very expensive, but they are the most durable and aesthetic option since they don't need to be painted to look good.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Anthony5

[TPI]

Anthony 5,

Firstly I was unaware zinc was galvanized, If that was the case why the need to put grease all over it, the guttering I used did not have any grease. re. your comment on Quote, slope, the standard 'Fall' for guttering is 1 in10.

I don't know what you mean by "flexible welding"

As mentioned by impulse, most UPVC sold here would not usually stand up to the heat, and would age harden an discolour over time.

As for copper, the size of the section required here to take our tropical downpours,would require it to be fabricated from a very heavy gauge, because cooper is a very soft material. In UK it is sometimes used for church roofs, ( but the cheaper choice is lead ). also some small section guttering usually 4 or 5 inch, with a flange on both edges for added strength. The cost of using cooper here would be astronomical, even if you could find the material. To use this this type of high end material together with the usual build quality found here of single skin walls, aluminum framed, single glazed windows and doors, and with insulation 'U' values of around zero would not stack up to me especially if you were hoping on selling for a profit some day.

So for me, it would be back to my original post, using zinc, with soldered joints, red oxide with finishing coats of a good quality oil paint.

I'm not sure what everyone else says but my experience is that all spouting and downpipes in Asia is either very poor zinc chromate or low grade galvanising! The major problem is the "acid" rain that blows across from India!

In order to properly prime the spouting and downpipes is to wash them down with warm soapy water first to remove the oil used in the extrusion process, then wash the outside surfaces with vinegar....leave for about an hour then wash with clean water. Apply primer paint (no lead please if you're using the water for drinking!) then another coat and finally one or two coats of your desired colour!

For interest, PVC used in spouting and downpipe is usually UV stabilised, plastic mesh placed over the bottom hole of your downpipe should stop critters from climbing up! Using that same mesh inside the top of your spouting will also stop critters from getting into your ceiling!

Just my opinion!

[TPI]

Just a thought! why not paint the inside of the gutter with ordinary Bitumen paint, it's elastic, doesn't rot and doesn't taste if you are using the water....it's pretty cheap as well, all you need is a ladder, a pot of paint, a brush and convince your wife that its her turn to do the work!

[fosseway]

Dear Anthony5,

Sorry to put you to the trouble of all the internet searching you have done. It was interesting, thank you, however I have had some of my painted zinc plated gutters in place for several years now and there has never been any problems, so I will continue with the same product with any new projects in the future.

[DD13]

Thanks everybody.......

This is all an education to me......

I suppose as I have the zinc/galvanized guttering already in place, it will be a case of "make-do and mend" periodically...

I have puzzled over alternatives....UPVC worries me as I observe what happens to plastic buckets & bin liners etc. left out in the sun

I have even thought about pre cast reinforced concrete gutters.....but the weight would be an issue....

Maybe someone will come up with a mineral "based" fabricated material in time....(similar to the old asbestos)....

So it looks like I will be need to PM Craig

Thanks again

DD13