A second career in teaching - a few questions...

[TimBKK]

I am planning a move to teaching overseas in 2-3 years and am trying to best figure out what I can do to ensure a smooth and successful transition. I am pretty well committed to teaching as a second career, not a 2 or 3 year diversion, and have decided that a M.Ed in education with state licensure (I am in the U.S.) is probably a good move. This is the program that I am most interested in, by the way:

http://fasttrain.gmu.edu

At this point I am not planning on teaching in the U.S. once I have the degree and state license, as I'm inclined to head right overseas. I understand that this may preclude me from being competitive for teaching jobs at the better (or best) international schools. Is this a fair assessment? I want to be as compelling a candidate as possible (more so as I'll be 46 by the the time I start teaching) but also don't want to waste time and money on a degree that may turn out to be overkill for the type of position and job that I will most likely end up in. I sometimes think that a Celta along with my bachelors degree (history, not education) and being a NES might be just as good...

The program I noted above has a track for pre k - 12 with state licensure in ESL, and a program for just elementary education. I don't know yet what level of student I would most like to work with - what should I be thinking about as I contemplate which of these two tracks to go with?

Thanks for any thoughts!

[brianp0803]

Usually a school will allow you to observe a class if you tell them you are going into the teaching profession.

In California you are required to observe the age level you plan to teach about 20 hours before starting the program.

Thailand is requiring long term teachers to be licensed. May create more competition at the better schools. Teaching experience in America is valuable but at 46 might not be worth the delay in coming to Thailand.

Teaching a subject at private schools in Bkk you might get 50,000 to 70,000 baht per month.

I hear international schools pay a lot better but expect a lot more.

I would expect a degree on elementary education would be more valuable.

Being a native English speaker is enough to get Esl jobs.

Teaching elementary school takes a lot of energy but the kids are adorable.

Teaching Jr. High and high school is dealing with teenagers but rewarding when they mature.

Starting at age 46 you might find the endless energy of primary kids wears you down.

I came to Thailand 4 years ago when I was your age (but no education degree ). I started teaching English to K1, P4. Enjoyable and lost weight.

I now teach high school math to teenagers.

It is exciting when they get accepted to good universities.

I feel happy being asked to write letters of recommendation for them.

If you have the heart for teaching and love helping others then you will enjoy teaching in Thailand.

[aarontendo]

Go with the elementary education license, it's much more in demand. If you want to work international schools, often they don't pay the ESL instructors so much and in fact often they don't care so much about qualifications of those fellas. Having said that, sort of pointless to do the elementary license if you don't want to teach K - 6.

On a side note, many states allow you to add on an additional endorsement by sitting the exam and having the relevant degree. You may be able to add on an endoresment to teach your bachelors degree subject once you have your initial license.

I see that the program offers a PYP captsone course for the IB curriculum. I've not experince there, but have heard from others that experience with that is highly valued by many international schools. May be worth doing the extra course for that as well...

[brianp0803]

I don't know what state you are in, but California has CSET tests to show knowledge competency.

You might be amazed how much that you once knew is already forgotten.

Depending on your salary desires.

Good International schools don't teach Esl.

They want teaching competence and subject competence.

I would definitely suggest watching classes and talking to teachers for the age group you are considering teaching.

But, Thai high school students probably respect teachers more than in America.

If a Thai student is disrespectful to a teacher then they will be in trouble.

An elementary license would qualify you to get the Thai teaching license and work permit.

I don't think Thailand distinguishes between elementary and secondary teaching license.

But better for you to get proper training.

Also, International schools probabky care about which license.

[jacksam]

Starting teaching in Thailand at 46?

How much money do you think you will have behind you upon arrival. I may sound negative but if your coming here at that age with little funds, what's the long term plan?

Teaching jobs don't pay a lot in Thailand

[brianp0803]

Starting teaching in Thailand at 46?

How much money do you think you will have behind you upon arrival. I may sound negative but if your coming here at that age with little funds, what's the long term plan?

Teaching jobs don't pay a lot in Thailand

Good advice.

You are half way through your working career. Good to think about retirement.

He mentioned nothing about current earning or potential earnings.

But the US doesn't typically pay people well with history degrees.

Good if you have more than $200,000 in the bank already.

Maybe can save more money in Thailand than in America.

Many people are looking for work in America.

In Thailand you earn enough as a teacher to live comfortably but not additional for retirement.

Have you worked at least 10 years paying social security?

Good to learn what they will pay if no further contributions.

I don't see many teachers over 60 years teaching in the private school (sometimes math and science).

Being older and no experience I wouldn't expect to work at an international school.

But private schools pay is enough.

I like teaching in Thailand a lot.

I did evaluate my finances before coming here.

How many teachers in public and private and international schools are over 60 years old?

I am curious also.

I've only worked at 2 schools having combined total of 140 teachers and only known 5 teachers over 50 years old. They all had over 10 years teaching in Thailand.

I work in Bkk. Maybe other areas are different.

Other experiences?

Thailand is a great place to be a teacher but be relatively in your expectations and long term needs.

[jhwest]

Hi there

A huge problem, well like most in the Western World then age discrimination comes in to play and the long time argument against experienced and very dedicated teachers, against thos who recently got degrees and seem to know it all. Also arselickers being an ordinary teacher or a Director. It does make me wonder if they have ever taught.

Also the parents at certain infamous High Schools think that they are getting native English speakers.

This is definately NOT the case and it is all down to putting bums on seats.

Believe you me have seen it first hand.

[KhnomKhnom]

Great prep for Thailand......... advanced degree, certificates, etc. You are set and likely could teach in Ed depts of the top universities here, too. You should be hired first day you apply where ever in Thailand.

Speaking by retired Ph.D. teacher at Mahidol U. But be aware of need for Thai language outside of international schools of all levels.

[brianp0803]

Great prep for Thailand......... advanced degree, certificates, etc. You are set and likely could teach in Ed depts of the top universities here, too. You should be hired first day you apply where ever in Thailand.

Speaking by retired Ph.D. teacher at Mahidol U. But be aware of need for Thai language outside of international schools of all levels.

I thought a master's degree or higher in a subject was required to teach at any university - maybe PhD for top universities.

I assume international programs all subjects are taught in English.

Maybe teaching ESL English at universities don't need advanced English degree.

You don't need a degree in education to get a work permit at a university.

An advanced CELTA degree should be enough.

[jacksam]

Again I think the op and folk like khnomkhnom are skipping over the background. The op didn't actually mention his first career. Mentions a degree in history but no teaching qual. No offence but just about everyone has a degree of some sort or another is USA.

Its important to have made your money in farang world first. I'm not talking about young backpackers here for life experience and extended holiday. They can go back to farang world later. They will be able to live here and that's about it. The op is different. 46 plus by time he does his first teaching job here and no mention of his financial base in USA.

For example I'm 60 worked till 58 in AU so yes plenty of funds. Last week had upset nerve on rear molar. Anyway the rear 2 top and bottom each side needed crowns for long term benefit. $7000usd later.......fact is no problem. I can pay. This all may sound negative but life can be expensive when we factor in everything. Its not all pad Thai.

[brianp0803]

Again I think the op and folk like khnomkhnom are skipping over the background. The op didn't actually mention his first career. Mentions a degree in history but no teaching qual. No offence but just about everyone has a degree of some sort or another is USA.

Its important to have made your money in farang world first. I'm not talking about young backpackers here for life experience and extended holiday. They can go back to farang world later. They will be able to live here and that's about it. The op is different. 46 plus by time he does his first teaching job here and no mention of his financial base in USA.

For example I'm 60 worked till 58 in AU so yes plenty of funds. Last week had upset nerve on rear molar. Anyway the rear 2 top and bottom each side needed crowns for long term benefit. $7000usd later.......fact is no problem. I can pay. This all may sound negative but life can be expensive when we factor in everything. Its not all pad Thai.

I came at age 48. I worked 27 years as an engineer saving 15% of my salary every year and the company matched 6% and additionally get a company pension after 20 years working for same company.

After working at least 10 years paying social security I think he will get a minimum 30,000 baht a month at retirement.

Enough to live on, if careful, and a nice supplement if also have adequate savings.

Definitely possible to come here at 46. But I did prepare for retirement from my first day working (I had good advice when young)

Not sure how many international schools will hire with no teaching experience but probably ahead of someone with no education degree.

But easy for Thai schools.

[jacksam]

Brian just for interest ....you came here at 48. When did the 27 years of working as an engineer start? ....

Clearly it must of been in farang world ?

[brianp0803]

Brian just for interest ....you came here at 48. When did the 27 years of working as an engineer start? ....

Clearly it must of been in farang world ?

Yes I was an engineer in America from age 21-48.

Worked hard and saved a lot.

Now I am working in Thailand in a job I always wanted to do.

[jacksam]

Brian ....geez mate... This is my point... You did the hard yards from 21 till 48...

Anyway. The OP hasn't even poked his nose in since his op. Clearly doesn't have a lot of interest.

My advise to anyone starting another start in life is ....

GET WITH THE PROGRAME.

otherwise know as contribute!

[benj005]

I met quite a few older people in Thailand who were working at government schools with nothing but their 30,000 baht monthly paycheck. If you don't want much out of life I guess it's fine, but what happens when an injury sidelines you for a few months? I think most people are reactive and react to circumstances. Instead, being proactive is a much better place to be in.

To the op. If you feel like Thailand has something to offer then do it. Keep your expectations low, so you don't get upset if things don't work out for you. Thailand is great, but it's not paradise. Especially on a Thai salary.

Only the top tier international schools pay well, and they are very difficult to get into. Government schools are easy to get into, but the working conditions can be a bit deplorable.

Edited October 28, 2014 by benj005

[TimBKK]

Brian, thanks for your thoughts and feedback, I do appreciate it. Good tip on observing a class, I had not thought of that but will definitely look into it. I have always had a notion that I might take up teaching some day, just didn't think it would be this late in life. All good things come to those who wait? Or be careful what you (I) wish for? Let's hope it's the former...

Usually a school will allow you to observe a class if you tell them you are going into the teaching profession.

In California you are required to observe the age level you plan to teach about 20 hours before starting the program.

Thailand is requiring long term teachers to be licensed. May create more competition at the better schools. Teaching experience in America is valuable but at 46 might not be worth the delay in coming to Thailand.

Teaching a subject at private schools in Bkk you might get 50,000 to 70,000 baht per month.

I hear international schools pay a lot better but expect a lot more.

I would expect a degree on elementary education would be more valuable.

Being a native English speaker is enough to get Esl jobs.

Teaching elementary school takes a lot of energy but the kids are adorable.

Teaching Jr. High and high school is dealing with teenagers but rewarding when they mature.

Starting at age 46 you might find the endless energy of primary kids wears you down.

I came to Thailand 4 years ago when I was your age (but no education degree ). I started teaching English to K1, P4. Enjoyable and lost weight.

I now teach high school math to teenagers.

It is exciting when they get accepted to good universities.

I feel happy being asked to write letters of recommendation for them.

If you have the heart for teaching and love helping others then you will enjoy teaching in Thailand.

[TimBKK]

Thanks Aaron - I will have to do more research into IB...I don't want to get ahead of myself, or bite off more than I can initially chew, but if it is as valuable as you say then it would be silly to overlook it. I guess I need to think carefully about what level I want to teach at. I am really curious about how others came to that decision...

Go with the elementary education license, it's much more in demand. If you want to work international schools, often they don't pay the ESL instructors so much and in fact often they don't care so much about qualifications of those fellas. Having said that, sort of pointless to do the elementary license if you don't want to teach K - 6.

On a side note, many states allow you to add on an additional endorsement by sitting the exam and having the relevant degree. You may be able to add on an endoresment to teach your bachelors degree subject once you have your initial license.

I see that the program offers a PYP captsone course for the IB curriculum. I've not experince there, but have heard from others that experience with that is highly valued by many international schools. May be worth doing the extra course for that as well...

[TimBKK]

That's a really important point jacksam, thanks for bringing it up. I think I'll be ok financially as I've been thinking about and planning something like this for a long time - will have about 13 million baht to help me get through the 9 or 10 years until I can access retirement savings without penalty, then will eventually have 401k, pension, social security to ease myself into retirement. Believe me, I have heard about and read of too many who are in dire financial straits in Thailand, rightly or wrongly, to want to let this happen to me.

Starting teaching in Thailand at 46?

How much money do you think you will have behind you upon arrival. I may sound negative but if your coming here at that age with little funds, what's the long term plan?

Teaching jobs don't pay a lot in Thailand

[TimBKK]

I would be more than happy to live comfortably and let my current savings sit untouched while teaching pays the bills...if there is anything extra at the end of the month, all the better

Temper my expectations - done. Expect the unexpected - done.

Good advice, thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In Thailand you earn enough as a teacher to live comfortably but not additional for retirement.

Being older and no experience I wouldn't expect to work at an international school.

But private schools pay is enough.

Thailand is a great place to be a teacher but be relatively in your expectations and long term needs.

[benj005]

Brian, thanks for your thoughts and feedback, I do appreciate it. Good tip on observing a class, I had not thought of that but will definitely look into it. I have always had a notion that I might take up teaching some day, just didn't think it would be this late in life. All good things come to those who wait? Or be careful what you (I) wish for? Let's hope it's the former...

Usually a school will allow you to observe a class if you tell them you are going into the teaching profession.

In California you are required to observe the age level you plan to teach about 20 hours before starting the program.

Thailand is requiring long term teachers to be licensed. May create more competition at the better schools. Teaching experience in America is valuable but at 46 might not be worth the delay in coming to Thailand.

Teaching a subject at private schools in Bkk you might get 50,000 to 70,000 baht per month.

I hear international schools pay a lot better but expect a lot more.

I would expect a degree on elementary education would be more valuable.

Being a native English speaker is enough to get Esl jobs.

Teaching elementary school takes a lot of energy but the kids are adorable.

Teaching Jr. High and high school is dealing with teenagers but rewarding when they mature.

Starting at age 46 you might find the endless energy of primary kids wears you down.

I came to Thailand 4 years ago when I was your age (but no education degree ). I started teaching English to K1, P4. Enjoyable and lost weight.

I now teach high school math to teenagers.

It is exciting when they get accepted to good universities.

I feel happy being asked to write letters of recommendation for them.

If you have the heart for teaching and love helping others then you will enjoy teaching in Thailand.

My parents were in their late 50s when they started their business. They went on for 12 successful years until my mom passed away. I've always believed that age is only a number. Yes, there are obstacles but never use age as an excuse. There was a teacher who just turned 100 last week. Still teaching at 100!

Most people who are trying to discourage you are talking from their own biographies. Just because they retired at 65 doesn't mean everyone has to follow the same path. I want to own a small store when I'm in my 70s. I want to be active and stay active when I get older. I've seen too many older people die after retiring.

Edited October 28, 2014 by benj005

[TimBKK]

Haha...I hear ya, but sometimes intercedes. I do appreciate the comments though, trust me.

Brian ....geez mate... This is my point... You did the hard yards from 21 till 48...

Anyway. The OP hasn't even poked his nose in since his op. Clearly doesn't have a lot of interest.

My advise to anyone starting another start in life is ....

GET WITH THE PROGRAME.

otherwise know as contribute!

[jacksam]

TMACDADI..... good luck with your plans and Thailand is a great place. You will enjoy it. Also remember there is a big demand for NET teachers through Asia. Vietnam and as I understand it China has some attractive "deals" for some postings such as accommodation etc. Good luck.

[brianp0803]

I don't think people were discouraging him.

There are many foreigners here without the finances to qualify for extension based on retirement asking what they can do to get an extension to stay.

Good to be prepared.

It seems the OP has prepared financially, preparing academically, and polite.

I think subject teachers are more likely to work longer than English teachers.

Schools consider English teachers easily replaceable.

I wouldn't teach math to teenagers in America, but the Thai students in private schools are fairly polite. Not sure about private schools.

Once I gave a lazy student (7th grade) some additional work and he replied "arai wa" instead of "arai na".

"Arai wa" is normal with friends but inappropriate to be used with someone older and definitely not with a teacher. I asked the class if his words were appropriate and the whole class was silent and stunned. He said i said by mistake. Thai students don't may protocol errors by mistake.

He got additional punishment.

If you have lots of energy then younger students are fun.

Older students take more mental energy and more technical.

Good history and social study teachers are hard to find.

The higher the level then the harder to fill the position.

There are lots of jobs teaching English and lots of people looking for those jobs.

[brianp0803]

I am planning a move to teaching overseas in 2-3 years and am trying to best figure out what I can do to ensure a smooth and successful transition. I am pretty well committed to teaching as a second career, not a 2 or 3 year diversion, and have decided that a M.Ed in education with state licensure (I am in the U.S.) is probably a good move. This is the program that I am most interested in, by the way:

http://fasttrain.gmu.edu

At this point I am not planning on teaching in the U.S. once I have the degree and state license, as I'm inclined to head right overseas. I understand that this may preclude me from being competitive for teaching jobs at the better (or best) international schools. Is this a fair assessment? I want to be as compelling a candidate as possible (more so as I'll be 46 by the the time I start teaching) but also don't want to waste time and money on a degree that may turn out to be overkill for the type of position and job that I will most likely end up in. I sometimes think that a Celta along with my bachelors degree (history, not education) and being a NES might be just as good...

The program I noted above has a track for pre k - 12 with state licensure in ESL, and a program for just elementary education. I don't know yet what level of student I would most like to work with - what should I be thinking about as I contemplate which of these two tracks to go with?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Are you aware of the various websites used to find teaching jobs?

Can we post here?

You could get an idea of jobs, salaries, requirements, areas with openings.

Most schools won't respond unless they believe you are living in the area. Too much risk non local teachers will actually move.

Thai schools start in May. Looking for teachers in February - April.

International schools follow the same schedule worldwide.