Thailand to 'allow' second DNA test for British murder accused

[IslandLover]

Gonzo the Face, on 29 Oct 2014 - 12:28, said:

Does anyone recall if the bodies were sent back to the UK before or after the two Burmese workers were arrested?

Before ..... as many other posters have already said.

[loonodingle]

Lets hope that the UK police can take a sample and observe. Also that the coroners officer in Great Yarmouth has samples from the post mortem. Then we will know the real truth and not all this bluster and posturing people who lie do. Concocting alibis etc etc. Lets just get the plain facts.

[loonodingle]

The BIB couldn't have planted sperm DNA prior to the repatriation of the bodies. So I don't think we should worry about that.

[loonodingle]

I dont understand why the police dont use other evidence(if hes really innocent!) to clear Nomsod instead of suggesting he now do a dna which of course anything can be sent to the lab as we already know to give whatever result they want..........surely they can show phone records as to his whereabouts the whole weekend which would be a good start to clear him or even how about a few witnesses go on tv to say he was in class or with them that night,if he was in Bangkok then surely he went out and so can find other cctv evidence as to his whereabouts if actually there.....if 10 classmates went on tv and declared he was there bright and early then that would help him or show doubters or even how about a few independent Koh Tao people testify to journalists that he was 100% not seen anywhere on the island that weekend..........seems to me like he cant get any other evidence as an alibi apart from that cctv footage.....if an injustice is happening to him then surely someone impartial to him can help him but nothing seems to come out on that front anywhere......if i was his mate and was REALLY with him that weekend then i would go on Tv or whatever and declare it!......if the Police have real evidence apart from the cctv he produced that he wasnt there then why not show it...shut everyone up!!!

Did David and Hannahs friends see Nomsod at the bar,if they did then should say somewhere to bring it to light..if they didnt see him then tell us as all this speculation is crazy and easily put to bed.......if Davids or Hannahs friends or other Farangs inn that bar scene say they never saw this guy at any time then i for one would be happier in my opinion of this investigation,there must have been quite a few foreigners in that bar between 2 and 4 am and if he wasnt seen there at all that weekend then odds are he didnt wake up at 4 am and decide to get a gang together and rape and kill some strangers...but if he was there then game over in my mind,strange Shaun says he dont know,why not just say you never see him so probably he was not there or he can check with other friends still on the island as to was he really there even if he didnt see him.......by the way running man does seem to look very very similar to Nomsod,if its not him and isnt a suspect anymore as isnt a Burma guy they got already then why have police not mentioned this innocent guy is now found and was nothing to do with it...anyone who thinks this case is not a cover up must be crazy...yes we dont have the real facts and never will hence why people Thai and Farang have to speculate so much and the Thai believe its a cover up more than any Farang because they ARE Thai and DO know what really happens at the Cop shops and with influential people already paying the Cops good money.........anyway as i see it he dont have to say Nomnuts will do another dna if public dont believe as could clear him much easier if had any real sensible alibi and when he has relatives claiming he was with them not in Bangkok and in Pattaya then makes him look worse!!! why would they say that! ..there is so many conflicting stories and Police statements that has made it a farce and quite hard to cover up fully now and is impossible even to make people believe what they say from now on is anything like the truth but looks like they are trying as hard as they can.

I believe 100% that the Police know exactly what happened and who is involved within a few days to a week after the tragic murders but the payment to cover it up must be going up astronomically by the day now due to the external pressure but they wont give the money back now so will just "plod" on till it quietens down which it will unfortunately but at the end then maybe a consolation will be that they will be skint and hopefully no one will visit any bars owned by them for a long long time...problem is any other businesses not owned by them on the Island will suffer greatly too through no fault of there own.

Rob Has Raised some Very Important issues here.

Hannah's friends have said nothing? Other people there have said nothing. Does this suggest that they have been told by the UK police to shut up while a behind the scenes they prove Nomsod was there and part of it all. I have read somewhere that Chris Ware has provided police with vital information.

It will all come out. Now its like a Thai movie scene with dramatic statements and over played expressions of innocence. The Final Outcome will be a twist that we don't expect..

Bide your time people. Its coming.. this will not get washed away.

[DarloKnight]

Now on evening news in UK regarding OP.

[IslandLover]

joebrown, on 29 Oct 2014 - 13:40, said:

I think it might be worth checking because I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't the internet petition handed in to 10 Downing Street the day after Cameron said he'd spoken to PM Thailand about sending UK police to assist/observe in the KT investigation. Either way, please stop the bickering. Far more intersting things are afoot at present.

In any event, Cameron wasn't there the day the petition was handed in to No. 10 - he was in Italy. I feel sure that it was not (only) the petition that caused Cameron to speak to the Thai PM. There's more to it than that. Don't forget that the FCO "summoned" (diplomatic-speak but most people know what that means!) someone from the Thai Embassy in London to discuss their misgivings about the way the case was being handled before the petition was handed in.

[retsdon]

While we're all speculating....it's not unreasonable to speculate that the British might have arrived with their own DNA data. And it's not unreasonable to speculate that it is this which has prompted the current flurry of testing and re-retesting.

To say that Scotland Yard almost certainly has access to better forensic expertise in Britain that the RTP do in Thailand is not to denigrate Thailand at all. Nevertheless, it's almost certainly true. So Scotland Yard might want to test what they have against fresh samples from the Burmese. If the RTP believe that they are holding the right people, they'll naturally go along with the idea because British agreement of a match would support or even strengthen their case. In any event, it would be hard for the RTP to refuse without appearing obstructive.

And while they're at it, the Brits would appear to have managed to persuade the RTP to rope in Nomsod too. You have to wonder where the benefit is in that, and why Nomsot is offering to go along with it if he's guilty. Could it be that Brit forensics have managed to find additional DNA deposits that were overlooked in Thailand? Ones that were not sexual, but nonetheless indicative of bodily contact or violence?

All will be revealed in due time, I suppose.

[Exsexyman]

Methinks this is merely part of the dog and pony show to try to confirm no corruption.

To an intelligent person, this retest will mean nothing unless it is done completely without any assistance of the Thai authorities, and I mean ALL Thai authorities.

"

To an intelligent person, this retest will mean nothing unless it is done completely without any assistance of the Thai authorities, and I mean ALL Thai authorities"

Well, after reading some of your hysterical and silly Thai bashing posts that probably rules you out!

[SteveFong]

Everyone knows that Scotland Yard detectives are behind this latest "allowance"

Why are they dragging this out like this?

Why is the CCTV footage not also being "allowed" to become known?

[Lozza]

(Link to Thai PBS removed as mods will probably delete any posts including it as it is not in Thai.)

Thai PBS investigated the doubts that have been expressed about the CCTV evidence produced by Mon's lawyer placing him in Bangkok. While not conclusive, it does seem to show Mon leaving the dorm at 9:16 am and not entering between 3:00 am and that time. It also shows no injuries of the type that had been reported. There are still various ways this might have been faked, but I give his alibi more credence.

There appears to be a chap outside the door at around 4:21am and another at around 6am (stills attached).

Nomsod.jpg

Nomsod 2.jpg

Of course it may not be him at either time but there is clearly movement in that lobby throughout the period 3am-9am.

Problem here is the tables and chairs haven't been there since june-so it looks like the entire CCTV for that day has been dummied up.

As for the others in the photo it's normal in a thai condo building to have movement 24/7

Nomsod's photo shoot appeared unusual given that he was the sole person entering at 9.16 am, very unusual in a Thai Condo building.

Maybe someone could check the condo out at that time.

Still no Uni shots to date, couldn't see the Uni allowing any mismanagement of their CCTV.

Students have said he arrived late with scratches on his neck.

[Lozza]

Everyone knows that Scotland Yard detectives are behind this latest "allowance"

Why are they dragging this out like this?

Why is the CCTV footage not also being "allowed" to become known?

Is there new CCTV.

[smokie36]

Everyone knows that Scotland Yard detectives are behind this latest "allowance"

Why are they dragging this out like this?

Why is the CCTV footage not also being "allowed" to become known?

Is there new CCTV.

Well there is none of course.

Have you heard of photo shopping?

[Exsexyman]

DNA will reveal that Nomsod is a gutless little <deleted> ...

I didn't know you could prove that from a DNA sample, I thought you had to.....

Think I'll stop there.

Of course DNA might reveal that Johnsen has been making a fool of himself, pretending to have knowledge of things he knows nothing about! Think i'll stop there too!

[MobileContent]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A second test to compare with what. That is the key thing. No-one is doubting the tests. Everyone is doubting the samples which they were compared with. Where did these samples come from?

And where / who will conduct the second gathering of saliva or whatever from the two Myanmar boys, who will be present, will the media be present.

And who will be there to guarantee that it's not swapped or whatever in the laboratory?

For credibility it would be better if the officers from UK were present at every step. Will it happen? Will the UK police or the UK Gov't speak up and insist on being present? It's also an opportunity for them to try to get a clearer picture / get some (not all) answers.

Where's Khunying Porntip?

Please not her.

[Krenjai]

It is easy to manipulate CCTV footage..........just Google it a bit or have a look at this in depth video to get an idea, it is a bit long but have a look at the 48 second mark for example, it is easy to make people and objects appear and disappear.

http://www.privacylover.com/tag/how-to-manipulate-cctv-footage/

I have the feeling we are watching a Columbo movie which is 5 minutes to 12, everybody knows who did it and Peter Falk (Scotland Yard) is setting up the traps! Of course this is no movie or theater rather people trying to getaway with murder....

I will be watching till the end!

[Krenjai]

I may add that photoshop gets the job done as well changing date & time stamps, but apparently there is something called a watermark embedded in the original which can proof the authenticity of a tape.

On this note, what are we talking about, this TImber table must be somewhere right now, just ask the people who have it right now, since when they have it?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Krenjai

[Krenjai]

Ehhh......this should be impossible right? The system has only one time....or?

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10418310_1576360412582879_2904747433321385648_n.jpg?oh=e9a76143faf1ff3494047a8e4df84c7d&oe=54E978A4

[Japhrodisiac]

Dr. Pornthip was very clear that no Forensic physician was present during the initial investigation so under what circumstances were the original DNA samples taken from the victims, and under what circumstances were they taken from the suspects?

Has a Forensic physician ever been involved in the case at all? The procedures of this case at bare minimum raise strong questions about any evidence procured so far. Not to mention the manner in which the police have ignored key issues and decided on others.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Japhrodisiac

[jdinasia]

Interesting,both shots he's looking at the camera. Is the denim jacket used to hide his disability.

Can anyone interpret this story..

According to others who live there, those wooden chairs have not been there since June. Doctored video?

It took almost two months to get this and it's confirmed the set up ain't been like is shown for months

Long enough to get some film professionally doctored for sure

Another conspiracy theory.

It took time for 3 to see it.

[DennisF]

I may add that photoshop gets the job done as well changing date & time stamps, but apparently there is something called a watermark embedded in the original which can proof the authenticity of a tape.

On this note, what are we talking about, this TImber table must be somewhere right now, just ask the people who have it right now, since when they have it?

Watermarks, if present, and not all systems have them, can also be removed as well mas added to footage, usually using a programme called after effects or other similar programmes.

The later versio0ns of photoshop have a semi automatic function that allows you to remove people or objects from photos or video stills very easily.

Can be done in 2 minutes. Not perfectly but, for a fuzzy cctv image, good enough to fool most people.

The same can be done with a video clip but, to be perfect it has to be done frame by frame. If we assume a 30frame per second video and a 3 minute clip then

we are looking at 5400 frames.

[jdinasia]

Everyone knows that Scotland Yard detectives are behind this latest "allowance"

Why are they dragging this out like this?

Why is the CCTV footage not also being "allowed" to become known?

Hmm another "everyone knows"

[jdinasia]

Dr. Pornthip was very clear that no Forensic physician was present during the initial investigation so under what circumstances were the original DNA samples taken from the victims, and under what circumstances were they taken from the suspects?

Has a Forensic physician ever been involved in the case at all? The procedures of this case at bare minimum raise strong questions about any evidence procured so far. Not to mention the manner in which the police have ignored key issues and decided on others.

I suggest you go back and see what Pornthip actually said.

[DennisF]

Sorry, not finished and hit the post button!

Multiply that number of frames by however many cameras are involved and you will grasp

the enormous task of doctoring.

The process to alter a video clip is not difficult but very, very time consuming.

Once altered it is difficult to detect, but can be done.

5 weeks on, the time is sufficient for doctoring, given the expertise, and that is a concern.

I would expect the video tapes, if any are produced to be examined by experts who will be able to detect alterations.

Hope this clears up the photoshop concerns.

[jdinasia]

(Link to Thai PBS removed as mods will probably delete any posts including it as it is not in Thai.)

Thai PBS investigated the doubts that have been expressed about the CCTV evidence produced by Mon's lawyer placing him in Bangkok. While not conclusive, it does seem to show Mon leaving the dorm at 9:16 am and not entering between 3:00 am and that time. It also shows no injuries of the type that had been reported. There are still various ways this might have been faked, but I give his alibi more credence.

There appears to be a chap outside the door at around 4:21am and another at around 6am (stills attached).

Nomsod.jpg

Nomsod 2.jpg

Of course it may not be him at either time but there is clearly movement in that lobby throughout the period 3am-9am.

Problem here is the tables and chairs haven't been there since june-so it looks like the entire CCTV for that day has been dummied up.

As for the others in the photo it's normal in a thai condo building to have movement 24/7

Nomsod's photo shoot appeared unusual given that he was the sole person entering at 9.16 am, very unusual in a Thai Condo building.

Maybe someone could check the condo out at that time.

Still no Uni shots to date, couldn't see the Uni allowing any mismanagement of their CCTV.

Students have said he arrived late with scratches on his neck.

Nothing you are saying has come from a reliable news story.

[jdinasia]

JOC, on 29 Oct 2014 - 11:14, said:

harleyclarkey, on 29 Oct 2014 - 10:57, said:

I really hope this brings and end to all the speculation. This should be conclusive.

It seems that the unfortunate woman was raped before being brutally murdered. If so this is where the DNA sample of the perpetrator(s) will come from.

I doubt if the Myanmar guys "fluids" can be placed after the event.

I also doubt the British police will allow any sample to be analysed outside their control. Otherwise why bother?

Allow me a stupid question!!

Would there any difference in the DNA tested from fluids, skin or hair??

What I mean is, would it be possible to get a DNA swab from the suspects saliver and claim it was retrived from the sperm found in the victim??

DNA is DNA (i.e. the same) wherever it is taken from, even from bones. Experts can establish the familial relationships of 4,000 year old Egyptian skeletons through DNA from the bones. It's how it is tested and compared which is important.

For all those asking again, yes, post-mortems were carried out on Hannah, and presumably David, as soon as the bodies were returned to the U.K., by a "Home Office" pathologist no less (source: BBC News), in other words, a forensic specialist. I have no idea whether the bodies were embalmed or not before repatriation, or what effect that would have had on these 2nd post-mortems, as there has been no official statement on this.

You are saying DNA from semen and from somatic cells are the same. This is not true.

[MJP]

A post hoping for another members' imminent departure from the living world has been removed.

[aussieinthailand]

How very strange that happens on the very same day, that the Headmans son has agreed to give his DNA!!

Anyone else smell a rat here??

The British officers need to have eyes on the DNA samples AT ALL TIMES to avoid any chance of a swap, and a second set of samples sent to UK for independent testing, then we may have the truth? The question is will this be done?

[chrischronic]

Its well past the time that anyone can accept any DNA evidence.

There is just to many things pointing to the son That need to be answered.

DnA alone does not make a case.

If he would have tested right away before all the researchers posted compelling evidence against him he may of not been called out.

Many of the people who have brought forth evidence are professionals in there fields.

Can I start a thread with the various photographic evidence against this individual and where would I post it?

To all the people that think the police would never cover up Foreigner murder cases or love to throw the words conspiracy theory around

I suggest everyone read this article.

<snip>

Edited October 30, 2014 by Jai Dee
Link to Drummond website deleted as per forum rules

[glasswort]

Sadly all that is being posted now has all been aired before. Much as I agree with what is and has been said I do not think anyone with influence over the matter gives a damn about TV posters or anybody else for that matter. We are all getting stressed out over something we cannot control.

[MikePhuket1970]

Its well past the time that anyone can accept any DNA evidence.

There is just to many things pointing to the son That need to be answered.

DnA alone does not make a case.

If he would have tested right away before all the researchers posted compelling evidence against him he may of not been called out.

Many of the people who have brought forth evidence are professionals in there fields.

Can I start a thread with the various photographic evidence against this individual and where would I post it?

To all the people that think the police would never cover up Foreigner murder cases or love to throw the words conspiracy theory around

I suggest everyone read this article.

<snip>

Yes,a really great summary of thainess at his best.

And these are the cases which are recorded.

Wonder how many tragedies are unknown,how many balcony jumps are murder cases,

how many real killers are still walking on the street unharmed with that ugly smile on their face.