Koh Tao murders: Influential island figure vows to clear his son's name

[BoristheBlade]

Again...Why has Mr Nomsod had a DNA Test when he and his lawyer stated he was not on Koh Tao on the day of the murders.

Was he lying?

Were the CCTV images of him at his halls of residence fake?

If they were fake, why has his University not mad a complaint to the police or Mr Nomsod? Because IF Mr Nomsod is involved in the murders or in the rape, they ( University and his Girlfriend alibi) become accessory to Murder

If they were why have the police not charged him with wasting police time at the very least?

Why was the DNA test done under the media spotlight?

This test has brought even more suspicion on Mr Nomsod

Why does Mr Nosod just release his Mobile Phone data on or about the time of the murder....this would clear him unequivocally IF he was in Bangkok

MR Nomsod. were you on Koh Tao at the time of the murders????? A Very simply question,,,,and an even simpler answer YES or NO...why have the RTP not asked this

Edited October 30, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[jdinasia]

What If he did not want to give DNA because he was scared of being a scapegoat? Has anyone thought of that? If people are saying DNA is being switched maybe he was just scared the same would happen to him?

I do not know the facts only theories same as everyone else, please do not say I am defending I am just turning it around to another theory.

An influential person's son a scapegoat?

In Thailand?

The following is NOT something I believe. I am not a conspiracy theorist.

It is as easy to believe that one group of people with influence can go after another as it is to not believe that. Whatever happens from now on, the influence of at least 1 family on Koh Tao has been diminished.

I

[mcm991]

Doctors collected DNA samples from village chief Woraphan Tuwichian' son to prove that he is not involved in the Koh Tao murders. /Bangkok Post

Well. if they took samples to prove that he was not involved.......

- my guess is that is what they will indeed find.

[BoristheBlade]

The Red Bull Case brings even more shame of the RTP.

Not to prosecute, when one of there own was slain and the person that did it made a pathetic attempt to get one of his servants to take the rap.

[BoristheBlade]

Whatever the outcome of this investigation, the Headman and his family will NEVER have the life they led before..

I think in time he they will leave Koh Tao and never return

We will see in time

What If he did not want to give DNA because he was scared of being a scapegoat? Has anyone thought of that? If people are saying DNA is being switched maybe he was just scared the same would happen to him?

I do not know the facts only theories same as everyone else, please do not say I am defending I am just turning it around to another theory.

An influential person's son a scapegoat?

In Thailand?

The following is NOT something I believe. I am not a conspiracy theorist.

It is as easy to believe that one group of people with influence can go after another as it is to not believe that. Whatever happens from now on, the influence of at least 1 family on Koh Tao has been diminished.

I

[slipperylobster]

Why did he not just do this in the first place...???? Cannot blame others for being suspicious if you refuse to participate in testing, while every single other person has to. No wonder all the attention !!!

[DarloKnight]

Now the samples been taken have they said when they will report the results?

[joebrown]

What If he did not want to give DNA because he was scared of being a scapegoat? Has anyone thought of that? If people are saying DNA is being switched maybe he was just scared the same would happen to him?

I do not know the facts only theories same as everyone else, please do not say I am defending I am just turning it around to another theory.

Children of influential people in Thailand are never made scapegoats. You should read-up on the 'Son of Red Bull' hit/drag and run case.

I know the story and there is no comparison when it comes to wealth on that one. I was just trying to turn the scenario round and ask if it was possible?

I have no idea how wealthy the Headman of KT is compared to Mr Red Bull, but he is an INFLUENTIAL person through his Thai political connections which go way upstairs in the Thai elite structure. Also, consider FACE and how this crime affects the connections in that structure and then hopefully you might see the big picture.

[jdinasia]

Dear god, yap yap yap, has anyone bothered to click on this link http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/ of todays date saying the police have already arrested Mon, the headman's brother and they are now seeking the headman's son who has fled to Bangkok

Head lines from said piece..................................One tourist murder suspect now arrested, another on the run

in General |September 23, 2014

(14,149 views)

History....they have been cleared since...................

Things in the past are history but the terminology of the statement cannot be changed.

"evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved"

" both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

What changed? How can a Police Commisioner use the words "evidence," examined", "proved", and then state they were caught on CCTV and then these statements brushed aside.

Many posters complain about people using theories and insist posters use proper news and police statements to confirm or bolster their posts. This is from a commanding officer using words that accuse people of crimes and claims to have evidence to support it but now its brushed off as history.

How could a statement delivered to the press be so wrong? Maybe saying we believe or its possible then I could understand the confusion.

Maybe the "Evidence" they had in the beginning that the commander was so confident about should be observed by the UK Police.

If you accept "proved" here, surely you have to accept proved in other statements, as well as disproved

How can I accept it on both statements? That would mean both parties did it? Are you throwing your own conspiracy theories out there? Or they both didn't do it?

Please be a bit clearer in your statements. Maybe your too clever for me but it seems you just threw a quick retort out rather than answered my questions!

Exculpatory evidence disproved that statement. There were statements before and after. You are being disingenuous in taking only one as immutable.

exculpatory exculpable police police...............................you have no proof that that the Burmese did it - unanswered questions prove your fiends involvement. You have not posted one link that these two are innocent - http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/ someonw who knows far better than YOU!!!

A blog filled with innuendo. ( interesting read though)

Let us look at your logical fallacy. Unanswered questions not only don't prove guilt, they do exactly the opposite. (if they are actually Unanswered) most things that you have mentioned have been answered.

[ParadiseLost]

I'm going to answer without going back and finding the links to verify, but this is my understanding based on police statements over time (I'm sure I'll be quickly corrected if I'm wrong):

The initial tests to identify the DNA found on Hannah's body must have been done in Thailand--probably the forensic hospital where the autopsy was performed (I'm guessing)--because they were quickly able to compare samples from the initial 12 suspects against that first test (and I believe this happened before Singapore was mentioned as an option).

Afterwards, the police said they wanted to use the DNA to identify race but were unable to do so with their own technology, so they were going to send a sample to Singapore. They did identify the DNA as belonging to an "Asian", so it may well be they sent a portion of the original DNA sample to a Singapore lab at that time in order to determine race, not to do matching analysis.

After that, the police said that they had a backlog of DNA matching tests to perform, so they sent a portion of the original DNA sample (or perhaps just the results of earlier tests?) to several places in Thailand, including Chiang Mai, to perform the matching analysis.

So it's possible the the original sample was divided up and sent to several different places, or at least that the test results from the original sample was sent to several different places.

Nobody in the public knows the facts, so anything we say about this is pure speculation ... I don't even think reasonable inferences from what is known are possible here.

But both the prosecution and the defense should want to verify that any and all tests that were performed met the proper standards for reliable accuracy. That means tracking and verifying that the chain of custody was maintained and the proper standards were adhered to in gathering, handling, testing, analyzing, and storing all samples and test results.

Again, this would be true in any criminal investigation and prosecution, anywhere in the world, not just Thailand.

DNA testing was first mentioned in this report. Then again here. The FBI suggestion was here.

Reference was made here to a third DNA trace (hopefully the UK police have found it)...

Edited October 30, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[wilcopops]

So one can be pretty sure that any DNA submitted and any DNA compared won't match?

As has been said, the initial samples of DNA have to be reliable as does the donor and those performing the tests and comparisons.

If I were an influential criminal, I would have been spending my time making sure that all these questionable factors were settled in my favour.

Of course the current situation is much more likely to be a simple misunderstanding?

Conspiracy theory

hardly - as it is simply put forward as one of several plausible situations - and I think anyone with a knowledge of Thai society would agree it was pretty damn plausible at that too.....

Edited October 30, 2014 by wilcopops

[jdinasia]

Dear god, yap yap yap, has anyone bothered to click on this link http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/ of todays date saying the police have already arrested Mon, the headman's brother and they are now seeking the headman's son who has fled to Bangkok

Head lines from said piece..................................One tourist murder suspect now arrested, another on the run

in General |September 23, 2014

(14,149 views)

History....they have been cleared since...................

Things in the past are history but the terminology of the statement cannot be changed.

"evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved"

" both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

What changed? How can a Police Commisioner use the words "evidence," examined", "proved", and then state they were caught on CCTV and then these statements brushed aside.

Many posters complain about people using theories and insist posters use proper news and police statements to confirm or bolster their posts. This is from a commanding officer using words that accuse people of crimes and claims to have evidence to support it but now its brushed off as history.

How could a statement delivered to the press be so wrong? Maybe saying we believe or its possible then I could understand the confusion.

Maybe the "Evidence" they had in the beginning that the commander was so confident about should be observed by the UK Police.

If you accept "proved" here, surely you have to accept proved in other statements, as well as disproved

How can I accept it on both statements? That would mean both parties did it? Are you throwing your own conspiracy theories out there? Or they both didn't do it?

Please be a bit clearer in your statements. Maybe your too clever for me but it seems you just threw a quick retort out rather than answered my questions!

Exculpatory evidence disproved that statement. There were statements before and after. You are being disingenuous in taking only one as immutable.

Im not trying to win an argument here. I just want the right people charged. I am aware Mon attended the Police station and gave DNA and we were told he was not a match.

Im trying to get to the bottom of this and for the Police to use these words and to claim they have CCTV evidence of Nomsod on the island and then retract it is very strange in my eyes.

You seem 100 % percent convinced in your decision which i find a little strange considering the way this case has been handled. Even the prosecution isn't happy with it seeing all the evidence so i why are you so convinced when you are not privy to the evidence they have seen.

I think its important to explore all avenues.

Ever since this case started with all the things the Police said "Like a Thai could never do this" and then the gay smear against Davids friend this case has been a joke.

Im not sure we will get to the bottom of this case but lets live in hope!!

CCTV at night and an accusation from someone that he ran was the basis for the initial accusation.

I assume you have seen the CCTV still from the night. It is not clear enough to prove he was present.

Add to that the CCTV footage from BKK. The class records. Etc and you can exclude him. People are upset that all they had was a still from the BKK footage. They are ignoring that BKK police (not the 7 cops posted on the island) did the investigation. Everything else comes from anonymous claims from social media.

[jdinasia]

Whatever the outcome of this investigation, the Headman and his family will NEVER have the life they led before..

I think in time he they will leave Koh Tao and never return

We will see in time

What If he did not want to give DNA because he was scared of being a scapegoat? Has anyone thought of that? If people are saying DNA is being switched maybe he was just scared the same would happen to him?

I do not know the facts only theories same as everyone else, please do not say I am defending I am just turning it around to another theory.

An influential person's son a scapegoat?

In Thailand?

The following is NOT something I believe. I am not a conspiracy theorist.

It is as easy to believe that one group of people with influence can go after another as it is to not believe that. Whatever happens from now on, the influence of at least 1 family on Koh Tao has been diminished.

I

No chance of that.

[BoristheBlade]

The result will be negative, just look at the smug look on the Police Chief.....What the hell is going on, 2 horrific murders and a gang rape, and a public dna test...laughing and joking....during this charade did any one on that front table send any message of condolences or sympathy to the families of the deceased??

Thailand hang your heads in shame....you reputation is falling by the second

Now the samples been taken have they said when they will report the results?

[JohnThailandJohn]

What If he did not want to give DNA because he was scared of being a scapegoat? Has anyone thought of that? If people are saying DNA is being switched maybe he was just scared the same would happen to him?

No different then them taking select police statements and running with those as fact despite the police uncovering further evidence which they say disproved their original suspicions and statements. They use the first to form conspiracies and they deny the second by saying everything police say cannot be trusted.

They say police are scared of this powerful family but then point to the fact police took them into custody, interrogated them and publicly accused them early on in the case.

They are so quick to jump from on conspiracy to another they don;t even stop to see what they are saying making no sense and would almost be comical if they were not hurting people and causing undue burdens on the police and state to bring justice to the victims.

[Balance]

He will "present" a sample. Someone needs to let him know that is not the way it is done. He needs to present himself and a qualified, independent, person takes the sample.

The British investigators are at Kho Tao now. Let them take a sample and run the DNA testing. If negative, good, his son is cleared.

may I add.... IF the Brits have DNA data taken from the victim.

However, even if DNA doesn't match (using Brit expertise, no Thai) then there could be a possibility that Nomsod (and his buddies) may have been involved with the assault, if other clues point to that. In other words, a person can be a murderer without also being a rapist. A key factor in this case is the scenario in the nearby backpacker bar(s) in the hours prior to the crime. Cops haven't said anything about it (haven't investigated that?) but social media has, and social media could have some nuggets of truth to add to the mix.

But so even if he is cleared he is still guilty.. That is what I mean no proof is ever good enough it seems.

I hope for DNA testing and preferably by the Brits, but as you demonstrated for some its never enough.

A reputation or a name can be destroyed so easy as one of the users here just demonstrated.

I am not saying don't keep pressure here or don't follow it but seems like some have convicted the guy already.

I can understand comments and speculation about public figures (they choose the job) but normal people there other standards apply. This is why normal police forces don't give out too much details about investigations.

To your point, yes, there were two assumptions embedded in my comments: 1) the Brits have seaman samples from the young lady; and 2) It is improbable that someone other than the murderer raped her, that is the rapist is the murderer. The police and the PM's office made a huge mistake by not handing over the investigation to the chief forensic scientist at the Institute for Forensic Science (sorry, I am blanking on her name). Control would have remained in Thailand and there would have been a much higher level of competence, transparency, and credibility.

[BoristheBlade]

No chance of What???? business as usual? NEVER

Edited October 30, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[FrankOff]

But many farangs hate rich Thais with a vengeance because then they cant feel superior. Admit it its much nicer if some HISO is guilty instead of some lowly worker. So there is prejudice too.

...what 'farangs' hate more is rich,self-entitled sociopathic little pricks getting a way with murder.....if the case may be.

However, this is NOT an uncommon occurrence in this country.

Edited October 30, 2014 by FrankOff

[BoristheBlade]

The Brits have at the very least 2 eye witness statements, at least 2 people whom WERE with the deceased that night, and BOTH those people WILL be AWARE if Mr Nomsod was in or around the AC Bar that evening.

Maybe thats why Mr Nomsod has rushed to have a DNA test.

But DNA is just one minor part of an investigation, hence why the Thai courts will not start procedings against the 2 Burmese.....lack or no eveidence.

The Brits....do they have the said evidence....alll will become apparent soon

Edited October 30, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[DarloKnight]

The Brits have at the very least 2 eye witness statements, at least 2 people whom WERE with the deceased that night, and BOTH those people WILL be AWARE if Mr Nomsod was in or around the AC Bar that evening.

Maybe thats why Mr Nomsod has rushed to have a DNA test.

But DNA is just one minor part of an investigation, hence why the Thai courts will not start procedings against the 2 Burmese.....lack or no eveidence.

The Brits....do they have the said evidence....alll will become apparent soon

Boris are the British police still in Thailand?

[Digitalnomade]

case is now closed.. judge says he has enough proves to condemn the 2 Burma guys.

again, thanks to thai police and his incorruptible justice , Thailand is now safe!

[TPI]

What's really wierd is that both of the accused are/were employee's of the headman! My isn't it convienent? One million baht each for the families, 25 years in jail, cut in half for the confession....is 12 years, time off for every Royal birthday....say 4 years total, maybe 3 ?

Everybody happy, headman happy, his sons happy, their uncle happy, police chief happy, victims parents happy! What's the problem??

[BoristheBlade]

Yes, I beleive they are, and I would also think they are using British Inteligence resourses aswell.

The electronic trails the murders and rapists left would have been extensive.

Koh Tao is a very small location, electronic surveillance would be very easy, results quickly obtained.

Britain is a fading power, but still a big player when is comes to International Intelligence.

The Brits have at the very least 2 eye witness statements, at least 2 people whom WERE with the deceased that night, and BOTH those people WILL be AWARE if Mr Nomsod was in or around the AC Bar that evening.

Maybe thats why Mr Nomsod has rushed to have a DNA test.

But DNA is just one minor part of an investigation, hence why the Thai courts will not start procedings against the 2 Burmese.....lack or no eveidence.

The Brits....do they have the said evidence....alll will become apparent soon

Boris are the British police still in Thailand?

[Thai at Heart]

He will "present" a sample. Someone needs to let him know that is not the way it is done. He needs to present himself and a qualified, independent, person takes the sample.

The British investigators are at Kho Tao now. Let them take a sample and run the DNA testing. If negative, good, his son is cleared.

may I add.... IF the Brits have DNA data taken from the victim.

However, even if DNA doesn't match (using Brit expertise, no Thai) then there could be a possibility that Nomsod (and his buddies) may have been involved with the assault, if other clues point to that. In other words, a person can be a murderer without also being a rapist. A key factor in this case is the scenario in the nearby backpacker bar(s) in the hours prior to the crime. Cops haven't said anything about it (haven't investigated that?) but social media has, and social media could have some nuggets of truth to add to the mix.

But so even if he is cleared he is still guilty.. That is what I mean no proof is ever good enough it seems.

I hope for DNA testing and preferably by the Brits, but as you demonstrated for some its never enough.

A reputation or a name can be destroyed so easy as one of the users here just demonstrated.

I am not saying don't keep pressure here or don't follow it but seems like some have convicted the guy already.

I can understand comments and speculation about public figures (they choose the job) but normal people there other standards apply. This is why normal police forces don't give out too much details about investigations.

To your point, yes, there were two assumptions embedded in my comments: 1) the Brits have seaman samples from the young lady; and 2) It is improbable that someone other than the murderer raped her, that is the rapist is the murderer. The police and the PM's office made a huge mistake by not handing over the investigation to the chief forensic scientist at the Institute for Forensic Science (sorry, I am blanking on her name). Control would have remained in Thailand and there would have been a much higher level of competence, transparency, and credibility.

Nowhere has it said that the Brits have a DNA sample.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, I beleive they are, and I would also think they are using British Inteligence resourses aswell.

The electronic trails the murders and rapists left would have been extensive.

Koh Tao is a very small location, electronic surveillance would be very easy, results quickly obtained.

Britain is a fading power, but still a big player when is comes to International Intelligence.

The Brits have at the very least 2 eye witness statements, at least 2 people whom WERE with the deceased that night, and BOTH those people WILL be AWARE if Mr Nomsod was in or around the AC Bar that evening.

Maybe thats why Mr Nomsod has rushed to have a DNA test.

But DNA is just one minor part of an investigation, hence why the Thai courts will not start procedings against the 2 Burmese.....lack or no eveidence.

The Brits....do they have the said evidence....alll will become apparent soon

Boris are the British police still in Thailand?

Indeed every one should try it

Google location services. Minute by minute about where your phone is. If he wasnt on the island at the times of the murder, the video evidence from bangkok means nothing. This might be one time a hiso will be very sad that he has a iPhone or other smart phone.

[Mudcrab]

Why does it matter? Conspiracy nuts will just not believe and demand more proof only to then go on and disbelieve that.

.

What kind of results are these people thinking will happen ... that somehow the two DNA samples collected at the scene will somehow match a third person making two people who don't even share the same heritage having identical DNA. THEY ALREADY MATCHED THE DNA and this kid was not even on the island at the time of the murders. At least their is tough defamation laws in Thailand and this is a perfect example of when they should be used.

If the matches are so certain, why has the prosecutor sent the docket back THREE times?

I think the only DNA match is between the cigarette butts on the beach and the 2 Myanmar guys, and they have already admitted they were on the beach. This is why the prosecutor keeps asking for more evidence - I have never read that they have a match between the Myanmar and from inside Hannah . Big man will have paid the local police to make sure that any DNA that is tested isn't actually from the son. There is no point in the Myanmar guys denying it if they did it, because they would know that their DNA was inside Hannah. Only the son of the big boss would rape and expect to get away with it.

No, I think there was a DNA match claimed between the cigarette and the semen. Whether the claim by police that this DNA matches the Burmese suspects is a true claim is the big question.

Unless the Brits have already been remarkably influential themselves and forced this test, why do it? Isn't the likely answer that the influential person knows that there will not be a match (and needs to get everyone off his back).

This doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be some sinister orchestration of a dishonest non-match, with his friends in the RTP playing games with either the base DNA samples from that night or the new sample from him. (Although everyone will naturally want to see how public, transparent and independently supervised is this new test.)

I think the test (still assuming it's entirely voluntary) can go sweetly without any new skulduggery, and that requires either that he is totally innnocent or simply that he is assured that the DNA on the cigarette that matches the semen is the only DNA his will be tested against and is not his. Doesn't mean he didn't participate, but helps him bolster that assertion. Good move, long awaited, way too late and too many other issues to remove all suspicion, but good move.

Haven't kept up to date on this but the last I read there was no semen on the inside of the condom. Happy to be corrected.

[BoristheBlade]

I genuinely want to believe Nomsod is not involved, but if he is worried by the damage to his reputation and his fathers, after all his father has a multi million baht business....just release your phone data....end of story....then go after the internet detectives, press and tv.

The same go's for Mon his Uncle, if you have nothing to hide and the rumors are affecting your life and business do a DNA test......again end the rumours

[Digitalnomade]

What's really wierd is that both of the accused are/were employee's of the headman! My isn't it convienent? One million baht each for the families, 25 years in jail, cut in half for the confession....is 12 years, time off for every Royal birthday....say 4 years total, maybe 3 ?

Everybody happy, headman happy, his sons happy, their uncle happy, police chief happy, victims parents happy! What's the problem??

parents of Hanna and the other killed brit, are not going to be happy.

[BoristheBlade]

If DNA can be obtained from a 300 million year old Dinosaur fossil...........

[Bung]

This is the police having a effort at ending this once and for all.

The son will be cleared with his DNA submitted. (Does anyone actually believe that his DNA will match? Hahahaha)

The two Burmese are having their DNA re tested. This will match and they will reconfirm their guilt.

All the testing will be done in house in Thailand, the British investigators will not be involved nor will they get their own samples. Most important!

The police will crow about how these new tests confirm their initial findings. The investigation is closed and the two Burmese will meet their fate.

No sod will go underground or leave the country "to avoid the limelight" and will return once the dust has settled.

His Dad will be keeping a wary eye on things and putting pressure on any speculative social media chatter will stop through threats and payments. (The only way these people know how to deal with something like this)

This pantomime isn't going to help those two Burmese, it is only being played out to affirm Nomsods innocence and reconfirm the polices initial findings that they had the right culprits in custody. That's all.