Merkel 'would accept UK exit from EU'

[iamariva1957]

I am so glad to be reading this.... My coffee tastes that much better this morning.

So Misery Merkel is 'threatening' to stop supporting Britain's membership of the EU?..... Lol.... Farage must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once.

Cameron will have nothing to put on the table to get the people of the UK to vote 'in' ..... Something he was banking on. The bare minimum would have had to be more flexibility in the movement rules. That won't happen now and he is going to have to resort to pure scaremongering, and Clegg already tried that in a head to head debate with Farage back in March/April..... and failed miserably.

Way to go Merkel. Help us out of the EU by all means. Because the way things are looking, once the UK is out, France won't be too far behind because their people have also had enough and the right wingers are on the march there too. So it will be France probably next, and after that Germany will be left to shore up 25 under-performing economies.

You got to hand it to the Germans... They have managed to turn the once 'common market' into the 'German Empire' and all without firing a single shot. I wonder what Germany is going to look like in 10 years?....... Probably bankrupt.

No... Germany will be again in charge. Hell Poland has never stopped being nervous! France pull out of the EU? Don't think so. They hate everyone, even their our countrymen... it is so much better to hate outside your own borders. makes you look better somehow. Germany will just do what China can do to the US and the rest of us... call in the loans and if they are not paid... take over.

Just remember when that happens raise your right arm up and say "This is how high my dog can jump"!

[F430murci]

Immigration to developed economies is a common sense issue. Eventually, developed economies will stop permitting immigration from developing economies and establish a means test. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a wide open gate for freeloading, losers from undeveloped economies to be edit off the hard work of others. This easy immigration stuff just is not working anymore from both a cultural and economic perspective.

Tomorrow, the tides will start shifting in the US and we will start seeing changes and I expect other countries will soon follow. Enough is enough and there would be no need for the endless, mindless debates or further overburdening on government systems that should be set in place for its own people.

I would tend to believe that most immigrants from developed economies, US, UK and Germany, have means and are not leaving the US, UK or Germany to freeload off another country's system and people.

It is not all "freeloading". It is a simple matter of the British Pound being stronger in the exchange markets than the Euro or anyone else. Work in say, France and you are paid in Euros. Do the same work in the UK and you are paid in Pound Sterling. You do the math. I certainly would prefer to earn in Pounds even over Dollars. The same is true for our friends south of the border in the US. Yes, there are more 'opportunities' in the US over Mexico, but that is not the only driving force. For the Dollar is worth a hell of a lot more than the Peso and so what would you do? Where would you rather earn a living, or to follow you train of thought, "freeload"? The same is true for the European Nanny State... the UK.

I was referring to 7by7's comments about immigration and all those Brits in other countries having to return home.

[iamariva1957]

Immigration to developed economies is a common sense issue. Eventually, developed economies will stop permitting immigration from developing economies and establish a means test. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a wide open gate for freeloading, losers from undeveloped economies to be edit off the hard work of others. This easy immigration stuff just is not working anymore from both a cultural and economic perspective.

Tomorrow, the tides will start shifting in the US and we will start seeing changes and I expect other countries will soon follow. Enough is enough and there would be no need for the endless, mindless debates or further overburdening on government systems that should be set in place for its own people.

I would tend to believe that most immigrants from developed economies, US, UK and Germany, have means and are not leaving the US, UK or Germany to freeload off another country's system and people.

It is not all "freeloading". It is a simple matter of the British Pound being stronger in the exchange markets than the Euro or anyone else. Work in say, France and you are paid in Euros. Do the same work in the UK and you are paid in Pound Sterling. You do the math. I certainly would prefer to earn in Pounds even over Dollars. The same is true for our friends south of the border in the US. Yes, there are more 'opportunities' in the US over Mexico, but that is not the only driving force. For the Dollar is worth a hell of a lot more than the Peso and so what would you do? Where would you rather earn a living, or to follow you train of thought, "freeload"? The same is true for the European Nanny State... the UK.

I was referring to 7by7's comments about immigration and all those Brits in other countries having to return home.

Sorry did not pick that up. But it is a good question about the Brits in other EU countries. I would think that they would be allowed to stay where they are though. Think of it as Grandfathered in. At worst they would have to get a visa and if not then return home to the drizzle, the cold and the not so great sounding address somewhere in London or the Shires. For lets face it having a Paris, Rome, or even Berlin address (even in a crap part of town... as long as no one visits you) is so much better than say Elephant And Castle or Plymouth, or anywhere other than Mayfair!

[Dirk_brijs]

Who benefits from free immigration from poor countries to rich countries..... large corporations do so they get cheap labor for free without any paper work or headaches required.

those immigrants who come over to abuse the social benefits of their new host country why would that bother those large corporations they don't pay any tax and or social security in any European nation as they all have their 2 foot head offices abroad so don't fall under the host nations tax and or social laws.....

So whoever thinks this is a political decision made by politicians is rather naive as all world decisions now are made by banks and large corporations. Or we stll think the Iraq war was to free the Iraqi people YEAH RIGHT.....

[RustBucket]

Freedom of movement within the EU is a two way street; British citizens benefit from it as well.

If the UK were to restrict the freedom of movement rights of other EU nationals into the UK, and especially if the UK were to leave the EU altogether; what would happen to the two million plus British citizens currently exercising their freedom of movement rights in other EU countries?

Two million British people emigrated to EU, figures show

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.

Those figures, as the article says, are from 2010; I accept they may be different four years later, but doubt that the ratio has changed much.

<snip>

Under the present system of free handouts by the PC tw*ts (< that has an "a" in it) in government, and the lack of common sense in which countries should be allowed entry to the EU, this is bound to fail, and is already doing so - witness: the scenes at Calais...

Any EU national migrant coming to the UK expecting to get free handouts from the UK tax payer is going to be sorely disappointed!

Q&A: What benefits can EU migrants get?

The myth of migrants ‘flocking’ to Britain’s ‘soft touch’ benefits system

You will see from those two links that EU migrants need to have lived in the UK for at least three months before they can make a claim, and then, among other requirements, have to pass an habitual residency test to receive anything.

As for the people at Calais; they are non EU national asylum seekers. If they were EU nationals they could easily enter the UK any time they wished; just as British citizens can easily enter another EU country anytime they wish.

Edited for typos.

Your analysis is wrong on quite a few levels.

The 2.3 million UK citizens that are living in the other EU countries happen to be retirees living out their final days in the sun. They own their own properties in those coutries and have their own pensions to live on. The number working in those countries is a minute fraction of that number. If you were british, you would know this.

A lot of them have left as a direct result of seeing their country swallowed up and ruined by immigration and can no longer stand to be there. They are retired and no longer need to live there at all. It is one of the main reasons I live here in Thailand.

These retirees actually bring revenue to the countries they settle in, (mainly Spain, Portugal and France). They are not a burden on the welfare systems, education systems and they don't take away jobs and drive down salaries for the natural citizens. They will never have a problem staying where they are. They will be given retirement visas (probably 5 to 10 years at a time). Any Brit working abroad will simply go through that respective countries visa and WP system to continue to work there... They are unlikely to be sent packing.

Regarding the three month buffer on benefits,

1... It is not hard to wing it for 3 months staying with friends in their overcrowded rental accommodation before they can start claiming. 3 month food money is all they need.

2... They can take a very low paid part time job, they will pay no tax, they will get working tax credits, they will be able to claim partial housing benefit, they can go on the housing waiting list, they can claim child benefit, they can put their kids straight into our schools, they can use the NHS services.

3... Because the massive influx of cheap labour, it has driven down wages across the mainstream jobs spectrum. This means they are almost certainly under the £10,200 tax threshold. So the vast majority of these workers pay no tax whatsoever into the system. It also means a lot of Brits no longer pay tax, this is one of the reasons there are things like 30 Bn shortfalls in the NHS. Expenses are zooming up while revenue is dropping fast.

I have only scratched the surface on why mass immigration is bad for ANY country. Destruction of culture, race inequality, dangerous growth in nationalism, crime, racial hatred leading to violence....

Those are just some of the problems faced by the EU 'immigration' issue alone. There are many other reasons it is bad for the UK to be part of a political union where Britain has zero influence. It is no secret that Britain has no friends in Europe. So we will just leave them to their devices and we will take our chances.

With regards to 'asylum seekers'.... Britain has been the world's soft touch on that policy too. International 'asylum' rules state that a person MUST claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they arrive in....But they have been ushered through several countries by other governments all the way to the English Channel ports so they can claim it in Britain.

This will be stopped by UKIP, they will be sent straight back to the country they came from which will be France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

I am not saying that UKIP will win the next election.... far from it, they have at least a decade before they can aspire to that, but come next May 22nd, they could well finish third under a lab minority win which will put them in the position of being able to keep Millipede out and put the Cons back in with a coalition with UKIP. We all know what the demands will be, and this coalition will be very different to a Con/Lib partnership. Farage is not wussy Clegg.... he will kick Cameron's arse for 5 years.

[attento]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

Even if/when the UK leaves the EU, the UK government would be unlikely to restrict immigration.

They are not able to define what would be an appropriate level and nature of immigration..

They don't have the financial resources that would be required to police the borders and coastline effectively, despite having the real advantage of being an island nation.

[RustBucket]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

Even if/when the UK leaves the EU, the UK government would be unlikely to restrict immigration.

They are not able to define what would be an appropriate level and nature of immigration..

They don't have the financial resources that would be required to police the borders and coastline effectively, despite having the real advantage of being an island nation.

I absolutely disagree.

They have the financial resources to do this easily.

They have a coastguard service, they have police, immigratin officers in place. they have the ability to never have to give access to benefits for these illegals, they already fine employers £10,000 for every illegal they employ and they do it as well.

They can easily force landlords to insist on a 'green card' style permit of residency before renting out property to them with a £10,000 fine if they don't conform.

There are entire seasons of this TV show, that shows just how difficult it is to get into the country. The biggest failing is that they don't ship 'so called' asylum seekers back to the place they entered from. That will change though when we are out of the EU.... When.... not if.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMnxrlmpl4

The time has come to stand up..... no more being tied to the European Court of Human Rights meaning we have to hold onto 'so called' asylum seekers.

Start handing out these £10K fines to a wider audience, make their life hell for assisting illegals to melt into the black economy.... they will get the hint eventually.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RustBucket

[mango66]

I am so glad to be reading this.... My coffee tastes that much better this morning.

So Misery Merkel is 'threatening' to stop supporting Britain's membership of the EU?..... Lol.... Farage must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once.

Cameron will have nothing to put on the table to get the people of the UK to vote 'in' ..... Something he was banking on. The bare minimum would have had to be more flexibility in the movement rules. That won't happen now and he is going to have to resort to pure scaremongering, and Clegg already tried that in a head to head debate with Farage back in March/April..... and failed miserably.

Way to go Merkel. Help us out of the EU by all means. Because the way things are looking, once the UK is out, France won't be too far behind because their people have also had enough and the right wingers are on the march there too. So it will be France probably next, and after that Germany will be left to shore up 25 under-performing economies.

You got to hand it to the Germans... They have managed to turn the once 'common market' into the 'German Empire' and all without firing a single shot. I wonder what Germany is going to look like in 10 years?....... Probably bankrupt.

Stupporn British thinking !!

Germanys economy would be better without EU !!

That any economist says, except britains- as of fact - if you say yes,

a Brit have only one chance , to say NO !

I dont know at all why in the british vocabulary you find the word : AGREE ???

[RustBucket]

I am so glad to be reading this.... My coffee tastes that much better this morning.

So Misery Merkel is 'threatening' to stop supporting Britain's membership of the EU?..... Lol.... Farage must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once.

Cameron will have nothing to put on the table to get the people of the UK to vote 'in' ..... Something he was banking on. The bare minimum would have had to be more flexibility in the movement rules. That won't happen now and he is going to have to resort to pure scaremongering, and Clegg already tried that in a head to head debate with Farage back in March/April..... and failed miserably.

Way to go Merkel. Help us out of the EU by all means. Because the way things are looking, once the UK is out, France won't be too far behind because their people have also had enough and the right wingers are on the march there too. So it will be France probably next, and after that Germany will be left to shore up 25 under-performing economies.

You got to hand it to the Germans... They have managed to turn the once 'common market' into the 'German Empire' and all without firing a single shot. I wonder what Germany is going to look like in 10 years?....... Probably bankrupt.

Stupporn British thinking !!

Germanys economy would be better without EU !!

That any economist says, except britains- as of fact - if you say yes,

a Brit have only one chance , to say NO !

I dont know at all why in the british vocabulary you find the word : AGREE ???

I haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about.

But one thing is for sure.

Brussels needs the UK a hell of a lot more than the UK needs Brussels.

We will leave that is 100% guaranteed, then Germany and France can have our 3 million EU immigrants, then France will follow, and then that will be the lot landing on German soil.

Then there will be an almighty uprising by the German people if Germany stay in.

Their empire will come at a very high cost. I just hope and pray that the Euro project is destroyed by the markets before that happens.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RustBucket

[Richard W]

They have a coastguard service, they have police, immigratin officers in place. they have the ability to never have to give access to benefits for these illegals, they already fine employers £10,000 for every illegal they employ and they do it as well.

They can easily force landlords to insist on a 'green card' style permit of residency before renting out property to them with a £10,000 fine if they don't conform.

The employers fine is now £20,000, not £10,000. There are complaints that they are not very effective at collecting the fines.

The current landlord scheme (starting in December 2014 in the West Midlands) has the drawback that it applies to all adult residents in a tenancy. I still think this will cause problems for people bringing foreign spouses in to rented accommodation. A big problem is that the Home Office takes too long to process applications for change and recording of status. Even big companies have problems - how do you think buy-to-let landlords will cope?

The time has come to stand up..... no more being tied to the European Court of Human Rights meaning we have to hold onto 'so called' asylum seekers.

That's nothing to do with the EU.

[RustBucket]

They have a coastguard service, they have police, immigratin officers in place. they have the ability to never have to give access to benefits for these illegals, they already fine employers £10,000 for every illegal they employ and they do it as well.

They can easily force landlords to insist on a 'green card' style permit of residency before renting out property to them with a £10,000 fine if they don't conform.

The employers fine is now £20,000, not £10,000. There are complaints that they are not very effective at collecting the fines.

The current landlord scheme (starting in December 2014 in the West Midlands) has the drawback that it applies to all adult residents in a tenancy. I still think this will cause problems for people bringing foreign spouses in to rented accommodation. A big problem is that the Home Office takes too long to process applications for change and recording of status. Even big companies have problems - how do you think buy-to-let landlords will cope?

The time has come to stand up..... no more being tied to the European Court of Human Rights meaning we have to hold onto 'so called' asylum seekers.

That's nothing to do with the EU.

There are 47 countries signed up to the European Court of Human Rights.

These are not all individual signees, the EU has a block agreement with the court in Strasbourg. If you are in the EU, you are tied to the ECHR. Blair threatened to pull out and was told in short order that he couldn't.

The problem that gives us is that illegal immigrants know how to abuse the system. They make sure they have no documents with them at all. If they can't enter Britain legally, they enter illegally either on a tourist visa then post their passport etc back to their country and merely overstay indefinitely, or they make it to France and post their docs back home from there before climbing into the back of a truck or whatever.

Under this act, the British can only remove them from the UK if they have documents confirming their country of origin.... no documents, then they can't remove them. So instead must allow them temporary stay with weekly signing on at a police station until they are processed another way which takes a long time. They hardly ever turn up to sign on and just melt back into the system.

Buy to let Landlords?.....

They will just have to be very careful as to who they let their properties out to in the first place. A loophole i the system would be for a property to be let in the name of a legal immigrant with rights to stay in the UK.... Then the onus should be put onto whoever's name is on the tenancy agreement. That is my opinion.

Good to hear that they doubled the fines. The employers should be given a month to pay it or the bailiffs sent into both their business and the owner's home to collect. That is what a High Court Sheriff is for. If they simply up-sticks and move to another shop, the case should be handed to the police to pursue it as a criminal case...... Don't forget, a lot of these employers actually started as immigrants themselves and citizenship can be removed at any time.

There are 25,000 immigration officers in the UK and they also have teams that stop people in the street, I watched one show of UK border force, where they nabbed seven illegals in one shift..... Not a single one with papers, all had to be set free, none ever turned up at the local police station.

Get out of the EU, and we will be able to detain the lot of them until their home of origin can be established and they will be on the first plane out.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RustBucket

[bkkcanuck8]

If you want to get rid of the influx of "illegal aliens" the quickest way to do it is to cut off the reason why they would come to the UK.... and that has little to do with individual enforcement -- but has a lot to do with any benefits that they would receive while in the UK. Introduce that national ID card that caused such a fuss years ago, where anyone wanting to work in the UK requires one (everyone over 15 years of age). Any EU citizen working there has to show up with their passport and they are issued one within a few days or so. Anyone hiring someone that does not have an ID (and ID checked - with biometrics) receives penalties stiff enough that makes doing so a very unpleasant experience when caught (high fines, income tax surcharge for 5 years, potential loss of business licenses etc.). Any illegal entering the UK through another EU nation would have NO right to declare asylum.

As far as the UK and the EU... if they vote to leave then they should leave and any trade negotiations will of course have to be approved by each individual member state of the EU. This means that each one is trying to get the best deal for that country. The illusion that the UK can leave the EU and retain trade ties as they are are likely mistaken since those were negotiated for member states and were negotiated to favour the members that are part of the EU as a whole.... this is quite different than the process of negotiating a trade agreement. There might be a transition period where there is the status quo for 2 or so years before the exit actually is implemented.

All those retirees that own property in other EU nations would require the appropriate visas after that point.... which means if the country or EU has a retirement visa then they can apply to stay under that.... otherwise they have to abide by the new regulations (it could mean for some nice sale properties).

All current trans-national employees would have to apply under the new visa application - which is generally bogged down in red tape and generally favours certain professions but excludes most of the other people.

The belief that there will be a grandfathered trade arrangements with current employees and trade is silly -- everyone will be out for their own self-interest -- and will likely get messy.

[daveAustin]

Merkel 'would accept UK exit from EU'

Who does she think she is? While this is no doubt all for the papers, her thoughts are utterly immaterial. Whether the UK exits the bl**dy EU or not is all down to the British people. She personally has less say-so in the matter than I.

[daveAustin]

Stupporn British thinking !!

Germanys economy would be better without EU !!

That any economist says, except britains- as of fact - if you say yes,

a Brit have only one chance , to say NO !

I dont know at all why in the british vocabulary you find the word : AGREE ???

To be fair, you are lucky that you have even been allowed to have a voice. Go on, keep pushing those buttons again!

[superal]

Your analysis is wrong on quite a few levels.

The 2.3 million UK citizens that are living in the other EU countries happen to be retirees living out their final days in the sun. They own their own properties in those coutries and have their own pensions to live on. The number working in those countries is a minute fraction of that number. If you were british, you would know this.

A lot of them have left as a direct result of seeing their country swallowed up and ruined by immigration and can no longer stand to be there. They are retired and no longer need to live there at all. It is one of the main reasons I live here in Thailand.

These retirees actually bring revenue to the countries they settle in, (mainly Spain, Portugal and France). They are not a burden on the welfare systems, education systems and they don't take away jobs and drive down salaries for the natural citizens. They will never have a problem staying where they are. They will be given retirement visas (probably 5 to 10 years at a time). Any Brit working abroad will simply go through that respective countries visa and WP system to continue to work there... They are unlikely to be sent packing.

Regarding the three month buffer on benefits,

1... It is not hard to wing it for 3 months staying with friends in their overcrowded rental accommodation before they can start claiming. 3 month food money is all they need.

2... They can take a very low paid part time job, they will pay no tax, they will get working tax credits, they will be able to claim partial housing benefit, they can go on the housing waiting list, they can claim child benefit, they can put their kids straight into our schools, they can use the NHS services.

3... Because the massive influx of cheap labour, it has driven down wages across the mainstream jobs spectrum. This means they are almost certainly under the £10,200 tax threshold. So the vast majority of these workers pay no tax whatsoever into the system. It also means a lot of Brits no longer pay tax, this is one of the reasons there are things like 30 Bn shortfalls in the NHS. Expenses are zooming up while revenue is dropping fast.

I have only scratched the surface on why mass immigration is bad for ANY country. Destruction of culture, race inequality, dangerous growth in nationalism, crime, racial hatred leading to violence....

Those are just some of the problems faced by the EU 'immigration' issue alone. There are many other reasons it is bad for the UK to be part of a political union where Britain has zero influence. It is no secret that Britain has no friends in Europe. So we will just leave them to their devices and we will take our chances.

With regards to 'asylum seekers'.... Britain has been the world's soft touch on that policy too. International 'asylum' rules state that a person MUST claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they arrive in....But they have been ushered through several countries by other governments all the way to the English Channel ports so they can claim it in Britain.

This will be stopped by UKIP, they will be sent straight back to the country they came from which will be France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

I am not saying that UKIP will win the next election.... far from it, they have at least a decade before they can aspire to that, but come next May 22nd, they could well finish third under a lab minority win which will put them in the position of being able to keep Millipede out and put the Cons back in with a coalition with UKIP. We all know what the demands will be, and this coalition will be very different to a Con/Lib partnership. Farage is not wussy Clegg.... he will kick Cameron's arse for 5 years.

Hi Rustbucket ,

I agree with everything you write 100% ( could have been me posting this ) . It also appears that some of the die hard traditional lab/con/lib are starting to wake up, removing their blinkers to realise the awful state that the UK is in and that there is an alternative vote with the up and coming UKIP party .I would pay money to watch Cameron take on Farage in a televised debate. The loss of culture and customs is the saddest thing but not beyond recovery I believe . The advocates of multiculturalism make me cringe . Birds of a feather flock together ( almost ) as can be seen throughout some of the cities and towns ( along with some no go areas that even the police will not venture ) . On my return to the UK ( Heathrow ) I often think have I arrived at the wrong country. Then to be questioned by a person whose English language is difficult to understand , is disturbing . Please do not think I am a racist as I have true Asian friends and relatives who command decent jobs plus truly integrate within my community.

To finish , have you ever thought why the likes of Cameron / Clegg * have taken up political careers when they could be earning big bucks in the private sector ? The truth of the matter is they have been groomed and educated from an early age for such roles . Their brief is to maximise profits for big businesses ( foreign labour at cheap rates ) who are the puppeteers and to try and appease/con the general public.

*Not to mention Tony Blair

[teatree]

The EU is fundamentally undemocratic. The executive arm of the EU, its most powerful group by far, is unelected by the people of Europe.

We don't vote them in, we can't lobby them and we can't vote them out.

The UK wants to 'spread democracy around the world', how about starting at home and leavig the EU.

[uptheos]

If Brits working and living in the EU need to return home then so be it, the good of the country comes first.......or they can stay and accept whatever changes take place, just like we accept Thailand's rules. The UK is 64 million people and we shouldn't give our country away because a very small percentage of that number will be inconvenienced.

Sometimes life is tough and just not fair.

[bkkcanuck8]

Your analysis is wrong on quite a few levels.

The 2.3 million UK citizens that are living in the other EU countries happen to be retirees living out their final days in the sun. They own their own properties in those coutries and have their own pensions to live on. The number working in those countries is a minute fraction of that number. If you were british, you would know this.

A lot of them have left as a direct result of seeing their country swallowed up and ruined by immigration and can no longer stand to be there. They are retired and no longer need to live there at all. It is one of the main reasons I live here in Thailand.

These retirees actually bring revenue to the countries they settle in, (mainly Spain, Portugal and France). They are not a burden on the welfare systems, education systems and they don't take away jobs and drive down salaries for the natural citizens. They will never have a problem staying where they are. They will be given retirement visas (probably 5 to 10 years at a time). Any Brit working abroad will simply go through that respective countries visa and WP system to continue to work there... They are unlikely to be sent packing.

Regarding the three month buffer on benefits,

1... It is not hard to wing it for 3 months staying with friends in their overcrowded rental accommodation before they can start claiming. 3 month food money is all they need.

2... They can take a very low paid part time job, they will pay no tax, they will get working tax credits, they will be able to claim partial housing benefit, they can go on the housing waiting list, they can claim child benefit, they can put their kids straight into our schools, they can use the NHS services.

3... Because the massive influx of cheap labour, it has driven down wages across the mainstream jobs spectrum. This means they are almost certainly under the £10,200 tax threshold. So the vast majority of these workers pay no tax whatsoever into the system. It also means a lot of Brits no longer pay tax, this is one of the reasons there are things like 30 Bn shortfalls in the NHS. Expenses are zooming up while revenue is dropping fast.

I have only scratched the surface on why mass immigration is bad for ANY country. Destruction of culture, race inequality, dangerous growth in nationalism, crime, racial hatred leading to violence....

Those are just some of the problems faced by the EU 'immigration' issue alone. There are many other reasons it is bad for the UK to be part of a political union where Britain has zero influence. It is no secret that Britain has no friends in Europe. So we will just leave them to their devices and we will take our chances.

With regards to 'asylum seekers'.... Britain has been the world's soft touch on that policy too. International 'asylum' rules state that a person MUST claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they arrive in....But they have been ushered through several countries by other governments all the way to the English Channel ports so they can claim it in Britain.

This will be stopped by UKIP, they will be sent straight back to the country they came from which will be France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

I am not saying that UKIP will win the next election.... far from it, they have at least a decade before they can aspire to that, but come next May 22nd, they could well finish third under a lab minority win which will put them in the position of being able to keep Millipede out and put the Cons back in with a coalition with UKIP. We all know what the demands will be, and this coalition will be very different to a Con/Lib partnership. Farage is not wussy Clegg.... he will kick Cameron's arse for 5 years.

Hi Rustbucket ,

I agree with everything you write 100% ( could have been me posting this ) . It also appears that some of the die hard traditional lab/con/lib are starting to wake up, removing their blinkers to realise the awful state that the UK is in and that there is an alternative vote with the up and coming UKIP party .I would pay money to watch Cameron take on Farage in a televised debate. The loss of culture and customs is the saddest thing but not beyond recovery I believe . The advocates of multiculturalism make me cringe . Birds of a feather flock together ( almost ) as can be seen throughout some of the cities and towns ( along with some no go areas that even the police will not venture ) . On my return to the UK ( Heathrow ) I often think have I arrived at the wrong country. Then to be questioned by a person whose English language is difficult to understand , is disturbing . Please do not think I am a racist as I have true Asian friends and relatives who command decent jobs plus truly integrate within my community.

To finish , have you ever thought why the likes of Cameron / Clegg * have taken up political careers when they could be earning big bucks in the private sector ? The truth of the matter is they have been groomed and educated from an early age for such roles . Their brief is to maximise profits for big businesses ( foreign labour at cheap rates ) who are the puppeteers and to try and appease/con the general public.

*Not to mention Tony Blair

Worked and lived in London (lived near Waterloo Station, worked in St. Albans for the first month; then Hemel Hempstead for the rest) for 1 year and 1 day in 2001/2002. It may be a great place to visit for 3 weeks or so -- but never want to live there again. We use to tease our Project Manager who was a local and thought London was the best place in the world, and would never want to live anywhere else. He could not quite figure out our point of view... but then he visited another contractor friend around Dallas Texas on his "estate".... and he was completely floored. Yes you can get some high-paying jobs in comparison to other places, but the cost of living there is just astronomical and your standard of living tends to be lower once everything is balanced in. No matter how much you want to blame immigrants for this -- it is not immigrants that were the cause of this lack of liveability. We had lots of immigrants in Toronto (probably half or a bit more are foreign born) -- but Toronto was way more affordable and liveable than London was. The only reason to slog through life there is because you cannot immigrate to somewhere more liveable, or you have decided to work there saving money (maybe property) until retirement and then running away to live somewhere else (with hopefully more saved up due to the cost difference with regards to property).

The project manager that I mentioned who would never live anywhere else... immigrated to Australia... where his nice paying salary gives him a much better standard of living.

I assume that your anti-immigration stand that you have you have taken to heart and have remained in the UK and only post on this board for fun -- because you would not want to be hypocritical and have immigrated to Thailand -- destroying their culture, raising their crime rate etc.

Edited November 4, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[7by7]

RustBucket and superal, your posts are so full of myths and inaccuracies that to correct them all would take up far too much space here.

Doing so would also be a complete waste of my time as you have obviously swallowed Farage's spin hook line and sinker.

Maybe you should try some research for yourselves; Factsheet 2: Benefits of EU membership outweigh costs and EU elections 2014: What has the European Union done for us? being a good places to start.

At least then you may be able to produce some facts to back up your arguments.

BTW, yes I am British, and therefore I say 'pensioners' not the American 'retirees!'

Edited November 4, 2014 by 7by7

[samran]

Your analysis is wrong on quite a few levels.

The 2.3 million UK citizens that are living in the other EU countries happen to be retirees living out their final days in the sun. They own their own properties in those coutries and have their own pensions to live on. The number working in those countries is a minute fraction of that number. If you were british, you would know this.

A lot of them have left as a direct result of seeing their country swallowed up and ruined by immigration and can no longer stand to be there. They are retired and no longer need to live there at all. It is one of the main reasons I live here in Thailand.

These retirees actually bring revenue to the countries they settle in, (mainly Spain, Portugal and France). They are not a burden on the welfare systems, education systems and they don't take away jobs and drive down salaries for the natural citizens. They will never have a problem staying where they are. They will be given retirement visas (probably 5 to 10 years at a time). Any Brit working abroad will simply go through that respective countries visa and WP system to continue to work there... They are unlikely to be sent packing.

Regarding the three month buffer on benefits,

1... It is not hard to wing it for 3 months staying with friends in their overcrowded rental accommodation before they can start claiming. 3 month food money is all they need.

2... They can take a very low paid part time job, they will pay no tax, they will get working tax credits, they will be able to claim partial housing benefit, they can go on the housing waiting list, they can claim child benefit, they can put their kids straight into our schools, they can use the NHS services.

3... Because the massive influx of cheap labour, it has driven down wages across the mainstream jobs spectrum. This means they are almost certainly under the £10,200 tax threshold. So the vast majority of these workers pay no tax whatsoever into the system. It also means a lot of Brits no longer pay tax, this is one of the reasons there are things like 30 Bn shortfalls in the NHS. Expenses are zooming up while revenue is dropping fast.

I have only scratched the surface on why mass immigration is bad for ANY country. Destruction of culture, race inequality, dangerous growth in nationalism, crime, racial hatred leading to violence....

Those are just some of the problems faced by the EU 'immigration' issue alone. There are many other reasons it is bad for the UK to be part of a political union where Britain has zero influence. It is no secret that Britain has no friends in Europe. So we will just leave them to their devices and we will take our chances.

With regards to 'asylum seekers'.... Britain has been the world's soft touch on that policy too. International 'asylum' rules state that a person MUST claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they arrive in....But they have been ushered through several countries by other governments all the way to the English Channel ports so they can claim it in Britain.

This will be stopped by UKIP, they will be sent straight back to the country they came from which will be France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

I am not saying that UKIP will win the next election.... far from it, they have at least a decade before they can aspire to that, but come next May 22nd, they could well finish third under a lab minority win which will put them in the position of being able to keep Millipede out and put the Cons back in with a coalition with UKIP. We all know what the demands will be, and this coalition will be very different to a Con/Lib partnership. Farage is not wussy Clegg.... he will kick Cameron's arse for 5 years.

Hi Rustbucket ,

I agree with everything you write 100% ( could have been me posting this ) . It also appears that some of the die hard traditional lab/con/lib are starting to wake up, removing their blinkers to realise the awful state that the UK is in and that there is an alternative vote with the up and coming UKIP party .I would pay money to watch Cameron take on Farage in a televised debate. The loss of culture and customs is the saddest thing but not beyond recovery I believe . The advocates of multiculturalism make me cringe . Birds of a feather flock together ( almost ) as can be seen throughout some of the cities and towns ( along with some no go areas that even the police will not venture ) . On my return to the UK ( Heathrow ) I often think have I arrived at the wrong country. Then to be questioned by a person whose English language is difficult to understand , is disturbing . Please do not think I am a racist as I have true Asian friends and relatives who command decent jobs plus truly integrate within my community.

To finish , have you ever thought why the likes of Cameron / Clegg * have taken up political careers when they could be earning big bucks in the private sector ? The truth of the matter is they have been groomed and educated from an early age for such roles . Their brief is to maximise profits for big businesses ( foreign labour at cheap rates ) who are the puppeteers and to try and appease/con the general public.

*Not to mention Tony Blair

Worked and lived in London (lived near Waterloo Station, worked in St. Albans for the first month; then Hemel Hempstead for the rest) for 1 year and 1 day in 2001/2002. It may be a great place to visit for 3 weeks or so -- but never want to live there again. We use to tease our Project Manager who was a local and thought London was the best place in the world, and would never want to live anywhere else. He could not quite figure out our point of view... but then he visited another contractor friend around Dallas Texas on his "estate".... and he was completely floored. Yes you can get some high-paying jobs in comparison to other places, but the cost of living there is just astronomical and your standard of living tends to be lower once everything is balanced in. No matter how much you want to blame immigrants for this -- it is not immigrants that were the cause of this lack of liveability. We had lots of immigrants in Toronto (probably half or a bit more are foreign born) -- but Toronto was way more affordable and liveable than London was. The only reason to slog through life there is because you cannot immigrate to somewhere more liveable, or you have decided to work there saving money (maybe property) until retirement and then running away to live somewhere else (with hopefully more saved up due to the cost difference with regards to property).

The project manager that I mentioned who would never live anywhere else... immigrated to Australia... where his nice paying salary gives him a much better standard of living.

I assume that your anti-immigration stand that you have you have taken to heart and have remained in the UK and only post on this board for fun -- because you would not want to be hypocritical and have immigrated to Thailand -- destroying their culture, raising their crime rate etc.

If the Brits decide to leave the EU, then I guess that is their democratic right.

My thoughts are that they won't when the issue comes up and people really have a good hard think about it. At which point the UKIP have become a one trick pony.

As to your last point, it does amaze me that people here moan about low labour costs, while at the very same time they have moved to a country where their pension goes futher, due exactly to low labour costs here.

But they have the cheek to deny other middle income people in the UK the right not to have to have cheaper (nb not cheap) input costs into their supply chains so that their income get stretched that little bit further!

These blokes are arguing for higher wages which means higher inflation, which means higher interest rates, which means more expensive mortgages for middle britain. Hardly the stuff of good economic policy isn't it?

But as they said, if they choose to leave, it is their perogative.

[7by7]

Plus many immigrants to the UK from the EU, especially the newer members such as Poland, take on the jobs which Brits don't want.

A few years ago I asked the man in charge of street cleaning in a London borough why most of his cleaning staff were Polish.

He replied that it wasn't most, it was all; because Brits wouldn't take the job as they deemed it beneath them!

[casualbiker]

Plus many immigrants to the UK from the EU, especially the newer members such as Poland, take on the jobs which Brits don't want.

A few years ago I asked the man in charge of street cleaning in a London borough why most of his cleaning staff were Polish.

He replied that it wasn't most, it was all; because Brits wouldn't take the job as they deemed it beneath them!

That's what HE might think but in fact it's the fact that when a job becomes available it goes out on the Polish grapevine. Similar to Filipino teachers here in Thailand!

[7by7]

No.

Whenever he had a vacancy he advertised it in the local press and at the Job Centre.

No Brits responded to the press adverts and Brits sent along by the local Job Centre either refused an offer of employment or, more usual, behaved so badly at interview that no offer was made.

Edited November 4, 2014 by 7by7

[samran]

Plus many immigrants to the UK from the EU, especially the newer members such as Poland, take on the jobs which Brits don't want.

A few years ago I asked the man in charge of street cleaning in a London borough why most of his cleaning staff were Polish.

He replied that it wasn't most, it was all; because Brits wouldn't take the job as they deemed it beneath them!

That's what HE might think but in fact it's the fact that when a job becomes available it goes out on the Polish grapevine. Similar to Filipino teachers here in Thailand!

I always find it funny how people think these people have an advantage. They are new to a country, no friends no network and very little base and worse language skills competing with people who have all those things.

To me they get these jobs in spite of their comparative disadvantage.

[iamariva1957]

Immigration to developed economies is a common sense issue. Eventually, developed economies will stop permitting immigration from developing economies and establish a means test. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a wide open gate for freeloading, losers from undeveloped economies to be edit off the hard work of others. This easy immigration stuff just is not working anymore from both a cultural and economic perspective.

Tomorrow, the tides will start shifting in the US and we will start seeing changes and I expect other countries will soon follow. Enough is enough and there would be no need for the endless, mindless debates or further overburdening on government systems that should be set in place for its own people.

I would tend to believe that most immigrants from developed economies, US, UK and Germany, have means and are not leaving the US, UK or Germany to freeload off another country's system and people.

It is not all "freeloading". It is a simple matter of the British Pound being stronger in the exchange markets than the Euro or anyone else. Work in say, France and you are paid in Euros. Do the same work in the UK and you are paid in Pound Sterling. You do the math. I certainly would prefer to earn in Pounds even over Dollars. The same is true for our friends south of the border in the US. Yes, there are more 'opportunities' in the US over Mexico, but that is not the only driving force. For the Dollar is worth a hell of a lot more than the Peso and so what would you do? Where would you rather earn a living, or to follow you train of thought, "freeload"? The same is true for the European Nanny State... the UK.

The same is true for the European Nanny State... the UK.

Would the same be true for the USSRA (Union of soviet socialist states of America).

The same country that had to write a taxpayers check to bail out Gov't Motors, or maybe the biggest welfare check in history 250 billion dollars to bail out the "too big to fail" failed capitalist enterprises.

Yeah Gawd bless the nanny state, poor pensioners in Europe and elsewhere are still paying for American Greed and Excess, and not one of these effers has ever seen jail time.

Jeez they slaughtered poor ole Bernie and left him out to dry, his ponzi scheme was more profitable than Uncle Sams. <deleted>.

How Kalifornia is allowed to keep going is beyond me, St Detroit another bastion of captialism at its finest.

Used to make me laugh when my American friends talked about supporting the Good Ole Usa , buying GM cars made in Mexico, not paying American taxes, and shutting down plants in Detroit.

I asked why dont you buy BMW made in America and employing Americans?

Join the dots, they couldnt get it.

Ah... just another US hater filled with erroneous information and willing to shout from their roof tops about how the US has destroyed the world.

What do you think would have happened if those firms saved with OUR (we US citizens) money had been allowed to "fail"? Where do you think the EU would have wound up? The amount was well above the figure you stated by the way, showing that your information is based upon emotion rather than fact.

Yes, we have a good number of issues in the US that we as a nation have to come to grips with and repair, not just for ourselves but also for those other nations that base their own economies on the US Dollar and our strength (military or otherwise). So to say that it is only our "greed" that is an issue, well, have a closer look at the rest of EU. For their 'hands' are in the same 'cookie jars' but without the combined leadership or centralized government as the EU is a 'collective'.

Referring to cars... the best selling cars in the the US and elsewhere in the world are Toyota, Honda, Ford, and GM (UN Commission on Commerce). Cars made in the US are built by American workers. Though not only in the State of Michigan but rather spread out throughout the rest of the country and each of these companies pay taxes in the US. Then there are those other nations that make those very same cars with their own work force and pay their own taxes.The shutting down of the plants in Detroit, has nothing to do with any of it. It is as if you are suggesting that cars in the US should only be made in Detroit and nowhere else.

Take another industry that has moved away from its historic base... Hollywood.That community has been able to adapt so why do we have to compensate those communities that have not been able to? Though this is certainly a financial issue for many, in the US there are no laws that keep you from traveling somewhere else to work. Nor do we as a nation consider that, as a nation, we owe anyone a living. Now, maybe we are wrong. I can accept that. But it is the only system that we have and one that has worked not only for our benefit in the Long Run, but also to the benefit of other nations. For "You get out what you put in". That might be too simple, but never once have we, as a nation, turned our backs on the EU (or those individual 'states') in times of crisis. Or is it that you want to blame us for those times as well?

But remember that the US companies mentioned herein are also the number one car makers in the EU (remember that Vauxhal is GM, Opel is GM... even Holden in Australia is GM... and Ford is Ford). On top of that, there are US companies (working in the US and employing US workers and paying US taxes) working as suppliers for the various manufacturers for not only car makers but also for other manufacturers in a myriad of markets from cars to aircraft to kitchen appliances to gardening tools.

Remember we are now and have been for sometime in a Global Economy. That means that each and every nation's economy has an impact upon the global stage. Yes, some countries are stronger, richer, and/or more capable than others. The US is at the top of the list right now and UK is somewhere around number 6 (in my opinion... no letters please) coupled with a possible vote to pull out of the EU... well I lived in the UK from 1964 to 1976 (before the EU and the Nanny State) and I remember the strikes, the fuel shortages, the taxes, the general unrest, and the change from Shillings to the decimal system (the first move towards complying to the then proposed 'European Common Market'). So to expect that one nation can stand alone in this market place is myopic.

As for California... the "Kalifoornia" days are gone. The State (my State) was badly run for a long time and we are doing what we can to fix that problem. We like to blame DC and those idiots for all of our troubles, but the fact is that we are responsible for them and as matter of fact for 'our idiot' representatives. So I hear you on that score.

But, perhaps you should connect the "dots". Blame the US all you want to for you have that right. But just try and remember that there is no one nation that can be blamed for everything that you might see as being wrong in the world. Oh, and "USSRA"? That is cute, but wrong. For the Republicans will soon be in charge. Whether that will be good or bad has yet to be seen.

Edited November 5, 2014 by iamariva1957

[7by7]

Plus many immigrants to the UK from the EU, especially the newer members such as Poland, take on the jobs which Brits don't want.

A few years ago I asked the man in charge of street cleaning in a London borough why most of his cleaning staff were Polish.

He replied that it wasn't most, it was all; because Brits wouldn't take the job as they deemed it beneath them!

That's what HE might think but in fact it's the fact that when a job becomes available it goes out on the Polish grapevine. Similar to Filipino teachers here in Thailand!

I always find it funny how people think these people have an advantage. They are new to a country, no friends no network and very little base and worse language skills competing with people who have all those things.

To me they get these jobs in spite of their comparative disadvantage.

It's also funny that someone living in Thailand (an anti immigration immigrant?) thinks he knows more about the recruitment of street cleaners in London than the man whose job includes recruiting street cleaners for the London borough who is his employer.

[casualbiker]

Plus many immigrants to the UK from the EU, especially the newer members such as Poland, take on the jobs which Brits don't want.

A few years ago I asked the man in charge of street cleaning in a London borough why most of his cleaning staff were Polish.

He replied that it wasn't most, it was all; because Brits wouldn't take the job as they deemed it beneath them!

That's what HE might think but in fact it's the fact that when a job becomes available it goes out on the Polish grapevine. Similar to Filipino teachers here in Thailand!

I always find it funny how people think these people have an advantage. They are new to a country, no friends no network and very little base and worse language skills competing with people who have all those things.

To me they get these jobs in spite of their comparative disadvantage.

It's also funny that someone living in Thailand (an anti immigration immigrant?) thinks he knows more about the recruitment of street cleaners in London than the man whose job includes recruiting street cleaners for the London borough who is his employer.

Who's anti immigration? Me? Nope, wrong there! I have no problem with immigration into the UK. Unregulated immigration into the UK is a different matter though!

As for the street cleaner cliche .. right!

[Jay Sata]

The mass immigration that the last Labour government encouraged is the root of a lot of the ant immigration politics we see today.

Blair and his left wing cronies opened the floodgates in an attempt to gerrymander a lot of marginal constituencies.

The result is the many millions of extra people in the UK have inflated house prices and swamped schools and hospitals etc which

were not built to accommodate a huge population increase.

It has all backfired of course because we not have immigration at the forefront of UK politics.

Milliband was seen throwing a few coins at a 14 year old Romanian beggar in all the national press a few days ago. Apart from the fact she should be in school why are there Eastern European beggars on UK streets?

The country is seen as a soft touch hence the debacle at Calais.

The forthcoming by election in Rochester will rattle a few cages for sure and underline one of the key issues of the next election. The opinion polls put UKIP in the lead at between 40% and 48%.

Despite calls for a referendum on EU membership no British prime minister has had the courage to hold one because they know the UK electorate will vote to leave.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Mosha]

Now she's told Cameron, if the UK can't accept the EU's immigration rules. Quit.

[Thongkorn]

My Thai wife works In a factory in the UK, along with 10 other Thai girls, She is a supervisor, She says a lot of Polish workers and other nationality's, come for work just long enough to be able to claim social money, some are good workers but a lot are not, along with some British workers, some do play the Game, and some don't, Near where we live In the North East of England its now called Bostonia use to be Boston. Because they are that many Eastern Europeans there now, Local people want jobs, but the wages have been driven down because a lot of immigrant workers live 10 plus to house, not an exaggeration. they dont have to pay as much for Utility bills because theirs is split 10 ways, also they are only here to save enough money to go back home with, all this is doing is keeping the wages down , that's what the Government wants,, So tell me how is this helping the working man to get a job , The government says they are good for the Economy, why are they mostly from the lower end of skilled people, and why are most single men.