Merkel 'would accept UK exit from EU'

[Jay Sata]

You can blame the last Labour government Samran for ditching that scheme while at the same time allowing massive unskilled immigration.

The next election will be a springboard for a referendum on UK membership of Europe under the current rules.

[bkkgooner]

Many schools in the UK have the situation where native English speakers are a tiny minority of the pupils.

i agree with most of your points but this one is just not true

[PAWNEESE]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11195219/Britains-schools-need-support-for-influx-of-immigrant-children-chief-schools-inspector-warns.html

The above link has a paragraph saying in some schools near London are three quarters pupiks who first language is not English. Perhaps the Telegraph lies.

[samran]

You can blame the last Labour government Samran for ditching that scheme while at the same time allowing massive unskilled immigration.

The next election will be a springboard for a referendum on UK membership of Europe under the current rules.

Shmozzle start to finish. Cost me a greencard for the UK which till they changed the rules I had kept and put paid to a business idea which I was trying to develop cause I no longer had work rights in the UK.

I really blame the home office. A bunch of incompetent fools if I have ever seen in a government department, and that includes Thai comparisons. They literally held onto my mates aussie passport for an entire year as he was being considered for another category of visa.

[jpinx]

Many schools in the UK have the situation where native English speakers are a tiny minority of the pupils.

i agree with most of your points but this one is just not true

How long since you visited a school in some of the midlands areas ?

[7by7]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

Yes, a big difference between the Nordic immigrants, i.e. Vikings, and their Germanic predecessors the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who first came to Britain to rape and pillage and then stayed after stealing the land of the indigenous, Celtic/Romano British population!

BTW, you should check up on exactly what benefits immigrants to the UK, both from the EU and outside it, are actually entitled to; it's far less than you seem to believe.

[PAWNEESE]

Ha ha ... sorry about my very bad English in the reference to those of whom English is not their first language.

Ironic and embarrassing in a way.

But hey ho ... I was rushing to go out.

When I googled the subject, there was pages of different reports and facts. The Telegraph article was the first one concentrating on London but

"up north" things are similiar.

[7by7]

I do not know how many EU nationals live in the UK as pensioners, as you do in Thailand, and can't be bothered to look it up.

I will give you a clue, there will not be many EU Nationals that have the UK as their retirement destination.

Most, if not all the EU Nationals that head for the UK shores are economic migrants looking for work.

Most will use UK Services.

Most will be looking for a UK Passport.

Nothing like me at all.

The above post nothing except baseless assumption.

However, I will see if there are any figures and post them when I have the time (I do have a life, and it is calling me right now).

Meanwhile, I suggest that you peruse The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

Yes, most EU migrants to the UK do come to work. They either already have a job in the UK or come to look for one. If they are a job seeker then, as you would have seen if you read the link provided, they will not be able to claim any benefits and will have to leave after three months if they haven't found work. Those that do have a job and then lose it have three months in which to find another one, if they don't they have to leave.

Yes, all migrants, no matter where they are from, can use certain UK services; just as you use services in Thailand.

Most looking for a British passport?

The following table comes from the independent Migration Observatory; so I assume you will accept their figures.

Table 1 - Top ten nationalities as share of total, 2012

Country of previous nationality, share of total

India 15%

Pakistan 9%

Nigeria 5%

Philippines 4%

China 4%

South Africa 4%

Sri Lanka 3%

Bangladesh 3%

Zimbabwe 3%

Somalia 3%

No EU country in the top ten.

You will see from table 2 that the Europe, with a total of 22,520, was third behind Asia and Africa as the region where those who naturalised as British in 2012 came from.

22,520 out of a total, according to the 2011 census, of approximately 2.7 million EU nationals, 42% of whom came from countries who joined the EU in 2004, living in the UK (source).

Plus, of course, that figure is for Europe as a whole; both EU states and non EU states.

So, the notion that most EU migrants into the UK will naturalise as British is totally unfounded.

You said earlier

Of course it comes down to intent. I currently live here because it suits me and the Law allows it.

I put it to you that the intent of those from other EU countries who currently live in the UK is exactly the same; it suits them and the law allows it!

Edited November 9, 2014 by 7by7

[japsportscarmad]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

You can trace your family tree back over 3000 years (probably close to 80 generations)? That is pretty incredible, do you have names for all the people in between? At a certain point (UK it was under 1000 years ago) they did not have last names so it makes it pretty difficult. About the only ones that I thought could do that were some Chinese. I only have one line that I can trace back about 1000 years - France (from Viking origin) who came to England (yes an immigrant) with William the Conqueror.... most of the rest of my lines only go back to maybe the early 1700s at most

There's no need to be so rude.

Sorry bc was added by the spell checker and I didn't notice. I can trace back to the doomsday book so about 1000 years, also there is a thing called DNA which shows your ancestral line. That's in the last paragraph I say 1000 years which is accurate.

[japsportscarmad]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

Yes, a big difference between the Nordic immigrants, i.e. Vikings, and their Germanic predecessors the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who first came to Britain to rape and pillage and then stayed after stealing the land of the indigenous, Celtic/Romano British population!

BTW, you should check up on exactly what benefits immigrants to the UK, both from the EU and outside it, are actually entitled to; it's far less than you seem to believe.

Hi thanks I have:

As to benefits any EU migrant can claim up to £ 26,000 in benefits that's the cap. It includes housing benefits and they don't even need to work to get it. Plus access to services such as doctors, police, social services, schools. It's a lot of benefits for someone who has just arrived and not contributed a single penny in tax. They can also and do claim child benefit even when their children are not even in Britain.

We only need so many people to wash cars and sweep the streets, but when UKIP win there will be a lot shuffling off home as they won't be allowed to work unless we want or need them. And we will then be able to take the skilled Australians, Canadians, and South Africans we need (and want).

As to the Celtic Romano people as you know the countries heritage has always been invasion and war, where did your French ancestor come from he was allegedly a Viking? now we fund the invasion and can't even fight back. O we can we can vote UKIP :-)

[7by7]

You obviously have not read up on what benefits EU migrants can claim from any official source! Where did you get your information from; UKIP spin?

Benefits for non-UK nationals from NI Direct.

Public Funds from the Home Office.

Of course, British nationals living in other EU countries have similar restricted access to those countries' welfare systems as EU nationals in the UK have.

Plus similar access to the other public services you listed.

Also, the majority of EU nationals living in the UK do work and do pay tax, or are family members of someone who does.

Are you another of those who want to kick out all the EU nationals living in the UK without giving any thought to those British nationals living in other EU states?

The UK does have a skill shortage in some areas, and many skilled jobs are filled by EU nationals. Why would you prefer Australians, Canadians and South Africans to EU nationals, or people from other Commonwealth countries come to that?

[mitsubishi]

This is beacuse Cameron is running scared of UKIP and his own back bench MP's, it's a combination of posturing and cynical political expediency. There is no way Cameron wants out of the EU or, given his past track record, managing a sucessful renegotiation of the UK's membership of the EU.He is held in thrall to the Euro Sceptics in his party to which he has to pander

He recently used language like 'applying the hand brake' with regards to immigration, despite the fact that levels of immigration from EU countries are the same as they were during Labour.

TBH, I am sick and tired of this old re-fried, re-hashed immigration red herring, It dominates every discussion about UK domestic politics. It's a disraction from the 'real issues' in the UK i.e. housing, 30 bn sterling shortfall in NHS funding, wealth inequality, the break up of the UK, jobs and salaries, etc.

I agree with all your points, the UK is sinking into a debt spiral, half the newly borrowed funds are now going to pay the interest on the existing loans. The UK's % of debt to GDP is actually slightly higher than France's. There is a severe housing crisis, the NHS can not possibly continue to exist etc.

I really wanted to point out I did a driving tour of 15 European countries of a 23 week period this summer and I can day on my mums grave I never met anyone who had anything good to say about the EU and everyone wanted out and I do mean 100%, that included every German I met. The open door immigration was the number one issue, far fewer were worried about the EU being essential bust. As the debts continue to rise debt will become the number one issue. let's not forget the EU's auditors have refused to sign off the books for the last 19 years, what does that tell us?

I agree, the EU was all about the upper-elites, the big corporations and so on that want cheap labor, out-sourced abroad. The lower-ranks didn't even get a look in, there was no recent EU referendum (that I know of) it was one-day we were independent countries trying to get along despite an apocalyptic duo of wars decimating folks, then along came EU-land!

The Europeans want their currency back, their free-markets back (without Brussels interfering) and most of all their countries back!

[mitsubishi]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

Yes, a big difference between the Nordic immigrants, i.e. Vikings, and their Germanic predecessors the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who first came to Britain to rape and pillage and then stayed after stealing the land of the indigenous, Celtic/Romano British population!

You are aware there was a war going on between non-Christian Europe and Heathen / Pagan Europe right? The reason they were putting them to the sword was because their own kindred were being slaughtered by Charlemagne's cronies. You are aware also that you didn't bother with the P. Correct BS they are trying out now (which is pretty much a failure in the long-term).

They were probably much more humane and less bloodthirsty than the nonsense you've been taught at school about them.

To summarize, EU will hopefully breakup and Europe will go it's separate ways while keeping true to one-another with trade and prosperity.

[Publicus]

The talk of wars, genetics as in DNA, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, invasions, bloodthirsty, the Normans, gives testimony to lessons learned and of a better civilization and society, but let me say for the vast majority of people in the USA that we are much more comfortable with all the warring tribes close in together on such a small continent living now as a European Union rather than without this union, or without some sort of common bond that goes beyond a reliance on civility or a balance of powers. The facts over 2000 years are that neither have worked out very well over there. Peace and tranquility by any means have not come easily for you folk.

Indeed, I worked over here on a small foreign staff that included three Brits, three French, three Americans and a few assorted others and everyone worked together okay, but the Brits would regularly confide in me their deep feelings about their cross channel neighbors. The feelings and emotions, to include Germany and Germans but so many others too, were still medieval raw and acutely revived by the two world wars of the 20th century, the 2nd war in particular.

I suspect the UK's migration problems are nowhere near as bad as the UKIP says, but are still in need of serious and significant attention. That the European elites have benefitted more from the EU and the EMU than the people have benefitted should be expected, given the history of elites and class privileges and restrictions across the continent.

Enuff said for now in a post too long and dense for any direct impact it might have on me, but I do consider the direct impact on the US of the UK getting the boot from the EU. The US military still has the long standing joke about why the Champs Elysees is lined with trees -- so the Germans can march in the shade, but I'm afraid that brings a laugh in the USA only....well, maybe in Berlin too which makes it all the more weird. .

[japsportscarmad]

No, it brings a laugh here as well :-)

[Mosha]

The talk of wars, genetics as in DNA, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, invasions, bloodthirsty, the Normans, gives testimony to lessons learned and of a better civilization and society, but let me say for the vast majority of people in the USA that we are much more comfortable with all the warring tribes close in together on such a small continent living now as a European Union rather than without this union, or without some sort of common bond that goes beyond a reliance on civility or a balance of powers. The facts over 2000 years are that neither have worked out very well over there. Peace and tranquility by any means have not come easily for you folk.

Indeed, I worked over here on a small foreign staff that included three Brits, three French, three Americans and a few assorted others and everyone worked together okay, but the Brits would regularly confide in me their deep feelings about their cross channel neighbors. The feelings and emotions, to include Germany and Germans but so many others too, were still medieval raw and acutely revived by the two world wars of the 20th century, the 2nd war in particular.

I suspect the UK's migration problems are nowhere near as bad as the UKIP says, but are still in need of serious and significant attention. That the European elites have benefitted more from the EU and the EMU than the people have benefitted should be expected, given the history of elites and class privileges and restrictions across the continent.

Enuff said for now in a post too long and dense for any direct impact it might have on me, but I do consider the direct impact on the US of the UK getting the boot from the EU. The US military still has the long standing joke about why the Champs Elysees is lined with trees -- so the Germans can march in the shade, but I'm afraid that brings a laugh in the USA only....well, maybe in Berlin too which makes it all the more weird. .

There is one about the Arc de Triomphe only being used 3 times. Once by the Fermans and twice by the allies..

[bkkcanuck8]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

You can trace your family tree back over 3000 years (probably close to 80 generations)? That is pretty incredible, do you have names for all the people in between? At a certain point (UK it was under 1000 years ago) they did not have last names so it makes it pretty difficult. About the only ones that I thought could do that were some Chinese. I only have one line that I can trace back about 1000 years - France (from Viking origin) who came to England (yes an immigrant) with William the Conqueror.... most of the rest of my lines only go back to maybe the early 1700s at most

There's no need to be so rude.

Sorry bc was added by the spell checker and I didn't notice. I can trace back to the doomsday book so about 1000 years, also there is a thing called DNA which shows your ancestral line. That's in the last paragraph I say 1000 years which is accurate.

I did not think I was being rude, but maybe I did not have enough emoticons in there

I am well aware of DNA and it's uses in "DNA genealogy" -- and although it can be used for trying to bridge a gap or give you generalities - it is still only statistics and best guesses based on current population concentrations and documented lines. I actually was trying to get a DNA sample to see where our Hamilton line (commoner Hamiltons most likely) plugged in and offered to pay for the genetic fingerprint used..... I had my aunt contact contact them (since I don't keep in contact), and apparently it freaked the person out that I was trying pass along to her son..... My aunt said after that there were "rumours" that the only surviving male Hamilton that I was requesting a sample from.... was not really of Hamilton blood A long buried family secret that my request was threatening to dig up

[japsportscarmad]

I guess we will all have some family secrets

[siampolee]

Well it is a change from Germany wanting England so much in the not too distant past I suppose

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9YdtArQfwIsKgs73RnnHvr7MITe9RwHEm-kZ1_59W89cwQjki

[japsportscarmad]

You obviously have not read up on what benefits EU migrants can claim from any official source! Where did you get your information from; UKIP spin?

Benefits for non-UK nationals from NI Direct.

Public Funds from the Home Office.

Of course, British nationals living in other EU countries have similar restricted access to those countries' welfare systems as EU nationals in the UK have.

Plus similar access to the other public services you listed.

Also, the majority of EU nationals living in the UK do work and do pay tax, or are family members of someone who does.

Are you another of those who want to kick out all the EU nationals living in the UK without giving any thought to those British nationals living in other EU states?

The UK does have a skill shortage in some areas, and many skilled jobs are filled by EU nationals. Why would you prefer Australians, Canadians and South Africans to EU nationals, or people from other Commonwealth countries come to that?

No I wouldn't kick out all EU nationals only the ones who have no real skills, de value the wages of British people and claim benefits. We should be training our own people.

Your link proves what I said after only 3 months they can claim everything I said they could best if you read the content of your own link. And please there's no need to be rude, and yes I would rather have commonwealth countries than EU workers certainly, much better in all respects.

Edited November 10, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[samran]

You obviously have not read up on what benefits EU migrants can claim from any official source! Where did you get your information from; UKIP spin?

Benefits for non-UK nationals from NI Direct.

Public Funds from the Home Office.

Of course, British nationals living in other EU countries have similar restricted access to those countries' welfare systems as EU nationals in the UK have.

Plus similar access to the other public services you listed.

Also, the majority of EU nationals living in the UK do work and do pay tax, or are family members of someone who does.

Are you another of those who want to kick out all the EU nationals living in the UK without giving any thought to those British nationals living in other EU states?

The UK does have a skill shortage in some areas, and many skilled jobs are filled by EU nationals. Why would you prefer Australians, Canadians and South Africans to EU nationals, or people from other Commonwealth countries come to that?

No I wouldn't kick out all EU nationals only the ones who have no real skills, de value the wages of British people and claim benefits. We should be training our own people.

Your link proves what I said after only 3 months they can claim everything I said they could best if you read the content of your own link. And please there's no need to be rude, and yes I would rather have commonwealth countries than EU workers certainly, much better in all respects.

All commonwealth countries?

[japsportscarmad]

You obviously have not read up on what benefits EU migrants can claim from any official source! Where did you get your information from; UKIP spin?

Benefits for non-UK nationals from NI Direct.

Public Funds from the Home Office.

Of course, British nationals living in other EU countries have similar restricted access to those countries' welfare systems as EU nationals in the UK have.

Plus similar access to the other public services you listed.

Also, the majority of EU nationals living in the UK do work and do pay tax, or are family members of someone who does.

Are you another of those who want to kick out all the EU nationals living in the UK without giving any thought to those British nationals living in other EU states?

The UK does have a skill shortage in some areas, and many skilled jobs are filled by EU nationals. Why would you prefer Australians, Canadians and South Africans to EU nationals, or people from other Commonwealth countries come to that?

No I wouldn't kick out all EU nationals only the ones who have no real skills, de value the wages of British people and claim benefits. We should be training our own people.

Your link proves what I said after only 3 months they can claim everything I said they could best if you read the content of your own link. And please there's no need to be rude, and yes I would rather have commonwealth countries than EU workers certainly, much better in all respects.

All commonwealth countries?

Yes

[7by7]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

Yes, a big difference between the Nordic immigrants, i.e. Vikings, and their Germanic predecessors the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who first came to Britain to rape and pillage and then stayed after stealing the land of the indigenous, Celtic/Romano British population!

You are aware there was a war going on between non-Christian Europe and Heathen / Pagan Europe right? The reason they were putting them to the sword was because their own kindred were being slaughtered by Charlemagne's cronies. You are aware also that you didn't bother with the P. Correct BS they are trying out now (which is pretty much a failure in the long-term).

They were probably much more humane and less bloodthirsty than the nonsense you've been taught at school about them.

To summarize, EU will hopefully breakup and Europe will go it's separate ways while keeping true to one-another with trade and prosperity.

Maybe you should turn your irony filter off.

[japsportscarmad]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

Yes, a big difference between the Nordic immigrants, i.e. Vikings, and their Germanic predecessors the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who first came to Britain to rape and pillage and then stayed after stealing the land of the indigenous, Celtic/Romano British population!

You are aware there was a war going on between non-Christian Europe and Heathen / Pagan Europe right? The reason they were putting them to the sword was because their own kindred were being slaughtered by Charlemagne's cronies. You are aware also that you didn't bother with the P. Correct BS they are trying out now (which is pretty much a failure in the long-term).

They were probably much more humane and less bloodthirsty than the nonsense you've been taught at school about them.

To summarize, EU will hopefully breakup and Europe will go it's separate ways while keeping true to one-another with trade and prosperity.

Maybe you should turn your irony filter off.

?

[7by7]

<snip>

No I wouldn't kick out all EU nationals only the ones who have no real skills, de value the wages of British people and claim benefits. We should be training our own people.

Odd that you talk of kicking out unskilled EU workers, then say we should be training our own people! Training for the unskilled jobs which they don't want and the unskilled EU migrants you want to kick out do?

Training is available for British people but there is still a serious skills shortage in the UK, and it's getting worse. Skilled EU workers can, and do, help to fill that shortage.UK businesses 'facing skills crisis'

Your link proves what I said after only 3 months they can claim everything I said they could best if you read the content of your own link.

It is you who should read the links thoroughly; then you will see that EU nationals have, among other requirements, to pass the habitual residency test (see also What is the habitual residence test? from the CAB) before they can claim; except for contribution based benefits for which they have paid sufficient NICs.

You will also see from those links that even if an EU national does pass the test and can claim income related benefits that they can only do so for 6 months, unless they provide compelling evidence that they will be starting work within a short period.

The myth that EU nationals can waltz into the UK and live on the state indefinitely is just that; a myth.

<snip>

yes I would rather have commonwealth countries than EU workers certainly, much better in all respects.

So you are saying that it's OK for people from the Commonwealth to come to the UK and take British jobs, but not people from the EU?

Despite the fact that British nationals have far more rights to live and work in other EU countries than they do in any Commonwealth one?

Finally; EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive

[Jay Sata]

Well the last time I was in Bucharest I did not see one single Brit begging or selling the magazines on the streets.

Of course they would not qualify for all the benefits that this county hands out.

What the mass migration from Poland etc has done is control the UK labour market to the point where wages are kept down and profits go up.

It has also opened the gates for the criminals that see the UK as easy pickings.

Just look at these figures from the Metropolitan Police.

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2013/feb_2013/2013010000160.pdf

[JockPieandBeans]

What the mass migration from Poland etc has done is control the UK labour market to the point where wages are kept down and profits go up.

It has also opened the gates for the criminals that see the UK as easy pickings.

Just look at these figures from the Metropolitan Police.

http://www.met.polic...13010000160.pdf

And even these official figures are a load of crap.

The MPs’ critical report – Caught red-handed: Why we can’t count on Police Recorded Crime statistics - has followed a series of scandals and investigations into the recording of crime that the MPs said had exaggerated falls in crime over the last decade.

The two official measures for recording crimes have seen the overall volume of crime falling by 38 per cent in the ten years to 2013. However, the scrapping of a regular audit of police figures in 2007 and changes in recording practices has raised questions over the accuracy of the figures. The UK Statistics Authority stripped the police recorded crime figures of its stamp of approval earlier this year.

Lord Stevens, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, told MPs earlier this year that “ever since I have been in the police service, there has been a fiddling of figures” and that it was still going on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics-calls-for-change-to-target-junkie-culture-at-metropolitan-police-that-has-led-to-underreporting-of-serious-offences-9247074.html

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

[Jay Sata]

Those figures from the Metropolitan Police are only up to 2012.

One can only guess what the numbers look like now but judging by the quantity of newspaper reports I read ,where Romanian Criminals are involved ,I would suggest they have shot up since they were allowed free access last January.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Jay Sata

[JockPieandBeans]

Those figures from the Metropolitan Police are only up to 2012.

I know.

2007 seen the scrapping of Police Audit figures due to changes in how crime was recorded and reported and inaccurate figures.

The recorded figures up until 2012 are a load of crap.

2014 seen the Police Authority for recorded crime stripped of its " Stamp of Approval "

One can only guess what the numbers look like now but judging by the quantity of newspaper reports I read ,where Romanian Criminals are involved ,I would suggest they have shot up since they were allowed free access last January.

Wont argue with that except that it wont just be Romanian figures.

[Jay Sata]

Those figures from the Metropolitan Police are only up to 2012.

I know.

2007 seen the scrapping of Police Audit figures due to changes in how crime was recorded and reported and inaccurate figures.

The recorded figures up until 2012 are a load of crap.

2014 seen the Police Authority for recorded crime stripped of its " Stamp of Approval "

One can only guess what the numbers look like now but judging by the quantity of newspaper reports I read ,where Romanian Criminals are involved ,I would suggest they have shot up since they were allowed free access last January.

Wont argue with that except that it wont just be Romanian figures.

Agreed.