Farming In Isaan

[RamdomChances]

Wow some good info here, thanks for that article tim, I'm a bit like TT, I read loads of articles but my understanding of the different types of protien as been limited.

Cassava- yep good idea, we actually used to give a kg of cassava chips as a suplement but this is going back a long while. We looked into it last year when we were having problems, but the price had shot up to around 5 bhat/kg making it about not much cheaper than just giving them alll another kg of concentrate. I've seen a few articles mentioning that it goes well with fang mak (something to do with by pass protiens)

Brewers grains- Again good if you can get them, also used that in the past when we first opened and where mixing our own concentrate mix, was buying it for a bhat/kg wet'n'bagged. It's bloody horible stuff to handle IMO, does'nt keep well at all and fly's love it

How about "lamb" the rice polishings, used that in the past as well, but that too has shot up in price.

I'm probably going to try the fang mak again this year and use the "suck it and see" method, if production drops too much I'll look at some sort of suplememt, but it's very much a cost/return calcalation, Using fang or fang mak is pretty much of a lose/lose situation over home grown forage anyway as I know I'm going to take a hit in production and additionaly I'll have to buy the stuff as well

[chownah]

Khunandy,

I think that the first thing you need to do is to estimate the amount of water you will need at different times.

For instance in hand watering....a person carrying two watering cans carries about 25 litres (25 kilograms) of water at one time. Assuming 10 trips per hour and 8 hours per day then one person can carry 25x10x8=2000 litres per day=2 cubic metres per day

For instance in the rice nursery...if you have 2 rai of rice nursery that is 3,200 square metres of land and if you need to flood it with water to a depth of 10 centimetres then you will need 3,200x0.10=320 cubic metres of water to do this.

Hand watering using a hose.....if you hand water using a hose with a flow rate of 20 litres per minute and you do this for 8 hours a day then you will use 20x60x8=9,600 litres per day=about 10 cubic metres per day.

I suggest that you estimate how much water you will be using on a week by week schedule ....... then you will have a better basis for determing the equipment needed for doing the pumping.

[Maizefarmer]

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

No pob's with feeding Fang Mak, but you need to add something to it to provide the UIP content for the small intestine - anything: it can be brewers waste, pure fishmeal, concentrate, cassava chips, cassava leaves (fresh or ensiled).

I note your comments regards the economic feasability versus increased milk yield - but still, even if you add just 25% of what you have caluclated as the right or ideal amount, adding just that little will result in both an increase in milk yield in lactating cows, and increased growth rate/body score for growing animals.

Do some homework and find some crop/product that you can get your hands on locally to add for UIP while waiting for your fresh/ensiled forage arrangements to come on line.

Tim

[khunandy]

Khunandy,

I think that the first thing you need to do is to estimate the amount of water you will need at different times.

For instance in hand watering....a person carrying two watering cans carries about 25 litres (25 kilograms) of water at one time. Assuming 10 trips per hour and 8 hours per day then one person can carry 25x10x8=2000 litres per day=2 cubic metres per day

For instance in the rice nursery...if you have 2 rai of rice nursery that is 3,200 square metres of land and if you need to flood it with water to a depth of 10 centimetres then you will need 3,200x0.10=320 cubic metres of water to do this.

Hand watering using a hose.....if you hand water using a hose with a flow rate of 20 litres per minute and you do this for 8 hours a day then you will use 20x60x8=9,600 litres per day=about 10 cubic metres per day.

I suggest that you estimate how much water you will be using on a week by week schedule ....... then you will have a better basis for determing the equipment needed for doing the pumping.

Thanks Chownah,

I appreciate your input. I still havent made my situation clear though my intention is to pump the water out of the bore and into the pond. Once in the pond the family can then pump it to wherever the farm needs it either by electrical pump or using the old iron buffalo pump and collapsable , roll up hose.

The pond is down hill a bit from where the bore will be and the fields and rice nursery and fairly close to the pond so I dont see it being a problem, much easier than the current method employed

(wait for the rain then work your guts out)

So I am thinking I will need a fairly good submersible pump (HP?) to transfer water into the pond and then the family can take care of it from there.

I am told that there is a good supply of good quality ground water and I hope this to be true , the farm and village are on a river flat between two medium mountain ranges with no industry for 50 kms so I do think it is feasable that there is good water.

While I am on the subject does anyway know how much I can expect to pay per metre for drilling and casing a bore?

And do I "have" to get permission from any departments to drill a bore?

I saw some really good portable units on American websites for $2700 , these look to be a good unit and will drill to over 100 metres, complete with mud pumps, drill string etc, I was tempted but assume taxes, freight etc lessen its attractiveness. (sometimes you just see a toy and want it)

I wish I was there now to kick start all this but I am stuck on an oil rig offshore from China and cant get there until October. The wife is going to be back in the village ahead of me but I find any enquiries she makes about something unfamiliar with the family the whole thing turns into a confusing mess. better for me to go in forewarned and forearmed

[Maizefarmer]

…. which is what I said in the first place (i.e. submersible pump).

Your description of “requirements” has taken on a very different picture since you first posted the question. Is there anything that needs to be added to the requirement?

I have a 92m hole that was sunk in 1994. All inclusive, except the Grundfoss submersible pump. Cost for hole was Baht 104 000. The guy turned up with a huge Ingersoll Rand truck mounted compressor and used water at around bar 600 to drill the 12” diameter hole, clearing it out with clay slurry. It was done and lined in 2 and a half days. Never had a problem with it – as good as the day it was sunk.

I would think hard before going down the DIY route. The theory of borehole drilling (as on the net) versus the practise is very different - and Thai conditions, if anything just make it that much more problematic. It’s going to be frustrating if you hit shale, sand stone or water indeed, before you get down to the depth you want to. You are going to use much more slurry than you budgeted for, you are going to have to have a big tank to settle it all out before reuse, you have to keep the slurry density just right – a big mess afterwards, lots of tubing. Then you have to get the lining down – not always easy. There will always be some complication or other that the theory didn’t explain. Let the pro’s deal with it.

Nice toy to have – but the cost of getting it done professionally should not be much different from what it would cost you to purchase a drill. Mind you, you may well be able to sell the drill afterwards to some local, who if he’s seen it drilled with may well want it – even if you “give it away” at half cost it will have saved you some cash.

Lots of guys around who can drill a borehole, fewer who can show you a hole they bored 10-12years ago that is still productive and or hasn’t silted up. And the silting up of deep holes is very much dependant on the quality of the bore casing/lining – which if the bore it wasn’t supported with the correct density slurry when been bored, will be great to start off with, but over time the soil will collaspse and tighten around the lining and reduce the flow rate down to potentially a trickle or nothing. And when that happens at 50m, it’s a nuisance to say the least.

The 2 sizes most drillers will offer you in Thailand will be 6”for domestic supplies or 12” diameter for agricultural/industrial supplies.

No – my opinion is get a guy in to do the job, with a garuntee (some garuntees): no water – no payment and that the well will produce all year round. The professionals will be able to give you graphs for water table levels for the last 20 years or so in your area, and will also be willing to offer you the above garuntee (in writing for what a written garuntee in Thailand may/may not be worth).

Also check what lining you are been offered

Check what hole diameter you are been offered

Check what flow rates you are been garunteed

Check what depth you are been offered and ensure its well bellow the driest w/table level experienced over the last 10 – 15 years (else the garuntee of water flow can’t be worth much).

Check that everything is included – i.e. slurry, taking away the mess afterwards (there will be a mess left after the hole is bored).

And lastly, for what it worth I can put you in touch with the guy who done my hole - he is still in business and will go anywher in the country.

Yes – you will have to go down to the local district office and get permission to sink it, but it’s a formality and you are not going to get turned down unless there is some known reason why the ground water in your area is not safe. In your case there are no industries so there will be no regional volume quotes, which sometimes are also a reason why holes can't be sunk in certain places. But in your area as you describe - there should be not reason why not.

Tim

[z21rhd]

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

No pob's with feeding Fang Mak, but you need to add something to it to provide the UIP content for the small intestine - anything: it can be brewers waste, pure fishmeal, concentrate, cassava chips, cassava leaves (fresh or ensiled).

I note your comments regards the economic feasability versus increased milk yield - but still, even if you add just 25% of what you have caluclated as the right or ideal amount, adding just that little will result in both an increase in milk yield in lactating cows, and increased growth rate/body score for growing animals.

Do some homework and find some crop/product that you can get your hands on locally to add for UIP while waiting for your fresh/ensiled forage arrangements to come on line.

Tim

RDC & MF

At the University of Khon Kaen in the Faculty of Agriculture

there are 2 research centres :-

The Tropical Livestock Feed Resource Research and Development Center

and, The Plant Breeding Research Center for Sustainable Agriculture

In the first, they have been researching local plants and

plant residues from industrial processes as supplements for treated rice

straw - including cassava amongst many others.

Well worth talking to them.

I have misplaced the name of the Professor heading up the projects

However, one good contact in the faculty would be to talk to Suwit Laohasiri...

His email [email protected]

The Tel Number 043 202 368

Good Luck !

Z21

[Maizefarmer]

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

No pob's with feeding Fang Mak, but you need to add something to it to provide the UIP content for the small intestine - anything: it can be brewers waste, pure fishmeal, concentrate, cassava chips, cassava leaves (fresh or ensiled).

I note your comments regards the economic feasability versus increased milk yield - but still, even if you add just 25% of what you have caluclated as the right or ideal amount, adding just that little will result in both an increase in milk yield in lactating cows, and increased growth rate/body score for growing animals.

Do some homework and find some crop/product that you can get your hands on locally to add for UIP while waiting for your fresh/ensiled forage arrangements to come on line.

Tim

RDC & MF

At the University of Khon Kaen in the Faculty of Agriculture

there are 2 research centres :-

The Tropical Livestock Feed Resource Research and Development Center

and, The Plant Breeding Research Center for Sustainable Agriculture

In the first, they have been researching local plants and

plant residues from industrial processes as supplements for treated rice

straw - including cassava amongst many others.

Well worth talking to them.

I have misplaced the name of the Professor heading up the projects

However, one good contact in the faculty would be to talk to Suwit Laohasiri...

His email [email protected]

The Tel Number 043 202 368

Good Luck !

Z21

Yup thats correct - my wife lectures there and is very much involved in various livestock projects. KK Uni is one of South East Asia's leading livestock/animal husbandry research centres.

Tim

[chownah]

Khunandy,

Do you know how well the pond performs?....has it ever been filled with water before in the season when you will rely on it for watering the various projects? A leaky pond can be almost impossible to "top up" and even one that has moderate leakage can be impractical to "top up".

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

You sure? your not confusing it with "grep" are you the rice husks. "Lamb" comes out like a powder looks like flour. It's used pretty extensivly around here by the guys that mix their own food

This is cut from this site http://www.beef-mag.com/mag/beef_feed_composition_tables_2/

Rice polishings

DM TDN NEM NEG NEL CP UIP CF ADF NDF eNDF EE ASH CA

90 90 100 68 94 14 4 5 14.0 9 0.05

P K CL S Zn

1.36 1.2 0.12 0.19 28

Sorry it's a bit all over the place. I was just talking to the wife she recons cassava has shot up even more this year

[chownah]

RandomChances,

I remember reading several articles on the internet about making silage with casava leaves. When they are ensiled it eliminates that poison which limits how much you can feed them fresh. The protein level in the leaves is quite high if I remember correctly. I'm wondering if it would be feasible to add a percentage of casava leaves to your fang mak brew and you could reduce the urea and if you used the right mix you could eliminate the urea altogether.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

RDC

Correct – no mistake, I am clear regards which rice processing by products you refer to.

It contains a high percentage of lipolytic enzyme. Result - it has to be fed fresh, or at the latest within a about 4 days of been seperated from the rice, otherwise it becomes to rancid (because of the lipoltic enzyme).

It means you can't buy bulk to store and use for feed or a feed mix - unless you can justify the incurred costs of cooled storage, or the extra cost associated with small volume purchase on a regular basis. In Thai conditions, the rancidity increases by as much as 1% per day.

Result: - you would be restricted to buying quantities for 3 or 4 days most, and be burdened with the hassle of ensuring that what you were getting in the first place was “fresh” - else after one or two days it would be a waste of money. To garuntee freshness, use smell and ask the miller how old it is and I would use a ph and moisture test each and every time. Again, I am honking on about the “practicality” issues, but I think they are valid considerations in this instance.

In a quick word with my other half I am told that it is used in certain formulated “finishing feeds” for up to 5 weeks before market/slaughter as the lipolytic enzme helps to add graininess to the fat and soften the meat.

You are correct – it is widely used by Thai feed-mills, and the reason why is simple: it is a good bulk creator to the volume of the feed (i.e. adds volume and weight economicly, and it is a good natural binder - the heat processes used in the manufacture of feedstock releases the fat and oil content of the polishings, binding all the seperate feed parts together – and as I am sure you would know – if the feed is a powder, it is because during production it was at one stage a solid pellet which has been dried and then crushed.

As a constituent in any feed ration you intend to mix yourself RDC, limit each animal’s intake of polishings to not more than 3.5kg for a dry cow and not more than 5.5kg for a lactating animal. If you want all the detail on the reasoning behind that, happy to share – but otherwise won’t bore you.

But while on the subject of rice and rice byproducts as a feed or feed additive, here is something else I think you should give some thought to.

Its called Rice Mill Feed – and I cannot think what the Thai colloquial word is – but I think you may have an option here.

It is a mixture of all the milled rice by products.

Some rules regarding its choice and usage.

Ensure what you get or are offered comes from a multistage rice mill, and not from a single stage rice mill. From a multistage mill the cost is nearly half what it is from a single stage mill in Thailand – its all to do with the rice production costs associated with the respective mill processing method(s).

For lactating cows you want a composition as follows:

Hull Content: 58 – 62%

Polishing Content: 5 – 9%

Bran Content: 30 – 40%

For a dry cow you want a composition as follows

Hull Content: 50 – 58%

Polishing Content: 8 – 12%

Bran Content: 35 – 45%

The Hulls stimulate appetite and are excellent for liver function. They can be used for “bulk” in concentrate mix or as added to silage or fresh forage at feed time.

The Bran is an excellent source of Vitamin B, and can be fed alone as a ration of lactating cows. For livestock going to market for meat processing, like polishings the Bran will help soften the meat if used as a standalone ration – but do not allow it to constitute more than around 35% of the entire daily feed ration, as the oil content will build up in the fat and meat excessively

Really what I am trying to do here RDC is offer a number of viable options based on what it sounds like is readily avaible in your part of the world. If formulated properly and feed properly, it will go a long way to filling in the gap.

Yup – cassava is well up this year, and there is every indication it will go even higher. Depending on the quantity you want you may consider getting an 8 or 10 wheeler down to Chon Buri/ Pattaya area where you could probably pick up a 10-20 ton load for about 15-20% cheaper than what it costs where you are. I am seriously thinking of getting about 100 tons this year - and will be buying it down there, as it is always.

So long as you keep it dry and keep the rats and mice out of it – it will keep long and well.

Tim

[RamdomChances]

Tim

I'll bow down to you supirior lipoltic enzyme related knowlage I have'nt actually used it for years, and am not seriusly thinking of it as an option now. I never noticed any degredation in the stuff we used to buy, seemed to keep quite well.

They grow cassava quite a bit around here, well about 10 km up the road, we used to buy it in bulk. If your looking for big quantities of the stuff, drop me a line I'll ask around here, my brother-in-law has a 10 wheeler although it's not a dumper.

As for whats avalible here, pretty much everything, we are on a bit of a raise, so not much rice. Usually Maize, Sugar, Peanuts with Sorgham, sunflower as secondary crops. Go up the road and the soil gets a bit drier and sandy, so a lot of cassava, down the road onto the plain and it's rice, all about 10km either way. The other thing I need to think about is infrastructure costs,if I have to fork out for storage or building a silo ect then It might work out cheaper to just take the hit in production this year

Chownah

Yea I've read quite a bit on that as well and am seriously considering it. I dont think it will mix with fang mak but I could do it just as a sialge. What is the poision in it ? I've run into a brick wall previously when talking about giving cassava leaves as everyone here recons it will kill the cows.....which would be bad The offshoot of that is I don't think anyone uses them for anything around here so the would probably be cheap....which would be good

RC

[chownah]

RandomChances,

There is some chemical in the cassava plant that creates cyanide when it decomposes. The leaves usually have more of this than the roots (I think). Drying or making silage reduces this problem. Here is a link to a site that talks about making silage from cassava tops:

http://www.mekarn.org/procKK/man.htm

I couldn't find much on making rice straw silage. I guess that's because you can store rice straw and feed it year round so no need to make silage of it.

There are references on the internet for feeding cassava leaves fresh to dairy cows but you have to limit it to some percentage because of the cyanide.....making silage reduces this by 2/3 or more.

You might want to check out the possibilities since you could probably get the tops very cheaply and cassava leaves are about 25% protein (on a dry matter basis) which seems really good....I don't know how much of this is DIP or UIP.......anyway it seems like a potentially cheap and nutritious feed source. Have you considered experimenting with one animal as a way to evaluate new feed ideas?

Chownah

[bina]

why dont the mods pin the agricultural profs' addresses that were posted recently; this thread has gotten so big its hard to search for things in it!!!!!! but i have to say, one of the more intelligent threads (and interesting ones too) here on the forums of thai visa...

sure beats 'sinsod' 'why thai girls...' 'etc etc...

[JungleBiker]

I may be wrong but I think RC and Tim have got their wires crossed. I think RC was talking about bran - but he gave it the wrong English name "rice polishings". So Tim was talking about rice polishings not bran. Here in Laos "ham" is the Lao word for bran, so I think the Thai word for bran is "lam", but I am not sure. Please forgive me if I am wrong.

[Maizefarmer]

Your'e quite right JB - Bran is "lam" is Loa/Isaan and Khmer and I was also I little confused because RDC said "rice polishings"

Anyway - as a feed or feed additive it has little differance: - a bit more lipolytic enzyme, so is worse to store. You can heat it up to dry it out - but then becomes useless as a binder, and looses most of its Vitiman B content. Its only use then is as a fiber additive - which from what I pick up from what RDC has said is not a problem.

Summary: Treat Bran & Polishings the same: same benefits, same problems.

Tim

[dukes]

Z21 it's the same here with electric fence, but you just buy a small control box and run it from the mains. They are fairly cheap about 1000 bhat I think , never seen any disappear.

Tim

Yea we used to buy in fresh Pangular (sp) grass, sell it localy as well when we used to have a lorry. It just got too expencive, people were stoping buying it and I could'nt really afford to keep the lorry going just for us, but the milk yields we're better. To be honest I'm probably not buying in the stock to get much over say about 14/kg a head. I'm not from a farming background and neither really is the misses so I've just had to learn everything myself. We dont really have the facilities for the really good milkers here, the medical back up is pretty poor as well.

I think the milk indistry here in Nakon is not as mature as in Korat, where you tend to find larger farms and probably better support.

Going from giving Pangular to just "fang" the milk production droped about 40%, but my cost's did come down a lot as well. Fang Mak initialy I was approching the levels of pangular say about 10% less, but after about 3 months it just started to drop off eventually ending up at the levels of straight "fang". Mabye you could help me out a bit here as i've done loads of internet searches trying to find any long term problems with fang mak, but have yet come up with anything.

I'll probably feed it this dry season as well, but before we were geared to growing cash crops and buying forage so at least this year I should be able to get away with just about 3-4 months of the stuff. Going back about 6 months we had staff problems i.e we did'nt have any. Me and the wife were milking about 50 and then I was hand cutting(not tractor) jumbo twice aday for them, right in the middle of hot season as well, good way to lose weight !!

climate controlled barn

I've got one of these....yes you've guest it, it controled by the climate

Maizefarmer - I find your info and all input on your posting very interesting. Would you know

which crop would be suitable to grow for poultry feed. I envisage my land area to no more than

5 rai and would need to sustane a flock of some 500 birds.

[Maizefarmer]

Sorry Dukes - can't help you on that, I know nothing about chicken/egg farming other than to say that my guess would be that if you are going to run such a farm on a commercial basis take careful note of the "cautions" expressed by others so far in response to your query.

I can see it sustaining a Thai family tuned into the economics of living in Thailand, but it looks like a fine line to sustain the sorts of lifestyles/expense(s) we farangs are accustomed to.

I can't see decent "margins" on a commercial basis with 500 fowls, after the mortagage is paid for, the car is paid for, living expenses, travel expenses (lot of eggs to sell for a plane ticket to the UK or USA!), and the old regular visa run (untill you get permanent residance).

I think the the question should be - will his really be a business that is going to give me what i want, what is my motive - yer, thats a big one, the motives are so often in the heart and not the head (have seen it so many times).

But don't let my cautionary opinion turn you off, it is after all just my opinion (with the hindsight of living and working here nearly half my life) - look at the practicalites very carefully, do your homework, get a business plan sorted out, sort out some objectives and financial forecasting - and if you feel you can make a success out of it - put your best effort into it and go for it.

No shoratage of advise about chicken and egg farming in Thailand - its a major sector of agriculture in the country. The smallest commercial egg farm I know of is a family about 5 km's from me - they are successful with somewhere between 2000 - 3000 layers. I'll ask the old boy next time tomorrow when I drive past what he reckons the cut-off point is (in terms of number of chickens required) to make egg farming comemrcialy viable.

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

Sorry - I put a reply here that should have been put elswhere - s Have moved it.

Tim

Edited August 17, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[khunandy]

…. which is what I said in the first place (i.e. submersible pump).

Your description of “requirements” has taken on a very different picture since you first posted the question. Is there anything that needs to be added to the requirement?

I have a 92m hole that was sunk in 1994. All inclusive, except the Grundfoss submersible pump. Cost for hole was Baht 104 000. The guy turned up with a huge Ingersoll Rand truck mounted compressor and used water at around bar 600 to drill the 12” diameter hole, clearing it out with clay slurry. It was done and lined in 2 and a half days. Never had a problem with it – as good as the day it was sunk.

I would think hard before going down the DIY route. The theory of borehole drilling (as on the net) versus the practise is very different - and Thai conditions, if anything just make it that much more problematic. It’s going to be frustrating if you hit shale, sand stone or water indeed, before you get down to the depth you want to. You are going to use much more slurry than you budgeted for, you are going to have to have a big tank to settle it all out before reuse, you have to keep the slurry density just right – a big mess afterwards, lots of tubing. Then you have to get the lining down – not always easy. There will always be some complication or other that the theory didn’t explain. Let the pro’s deal with it.

Nice toy to have – but the cost of getting it done professionally should not be much different from what it would cost you to purchase a drill. Mind you, you may well be able to sell the drill afterwards to some local, who if he’s seen it drilled with may well want it – even if you “give it away” at half cost it will have saved you some cash.

Lots of guys around who can drill a borehole, fewer who can show you a hole they bored 10-12years ago that is still productive and or hasn’t silted up. And the silting up of deep holes is very much dependant on the quality of the bore casing/lining – which if the bore it wasn’t supported with the correct density slurry when been bored, will be great to start off with, but over time the soil will collaspse and tighten around the lining and reduce the flow rate down to potentially a trickle or nothing. And when that happens at 50m, it’s a nuisance to say the least.

The 2 sizes most drillers will offer you in Thailand will be 6”for domestic supplies or 12” diameter for agricultural/industrial supplies.

No – my opinion is get a guy in to do the job, with a garuntee (some garuntees): no water – no payment and that the well will produce all year round. The professionals will be able to give you graphs for water table levels for the last 20 years or so in your area, and will also be willing to offer you the above garuntee (in writing for what a written garuntee in Thailand may/may not be worth).

Also check what lining you are been offered

Check what hole diameter you are been offered

Check what flow rates you are been garunteed

Check what depth you are been offered and ensure its well bellow the driest w/table level experienced over the last 10 – 15 years (else the garuntee of water flow can’t be worth much).

Check that everything is included – i.e. slurry, taking away the mess afterwards (there will be a mess left after the hole is bored).

And lastly, for what it worth I can put you in touch with the guy who done my hole - he is still in business and will go anywher in the country.

Yes – you will have to go down to the local district office and get permission to sink it, but it’s a formality and you are not going to get turned down unless there is some known reason why the ground water in your area is not safe. In your case there are no industries so there will be no regional volume quotes, which sometimes are also a reason why holes can't be sunk in certain places. But in your area as you describe - there should be not reason why not.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

Very helpful , it was on your advice that all future considerations will be based on the use of a submersible pump, I will just have to work out the HP required etc. I finally got off the offshore rig and I am now in Perth for 3 weeks so I might get some specs from the many pump manufacturers here.

I may contact you in regard to you driller if I can, there are a few local guys in my area and I shall give them the first opportunity to quote and your relevent comments about what sort of guarentees to persue are most helpful.

Chownah raised a point about the water retaining capabilities of the pond (thanks Chownah), this will be the first wet season for the pond so I will have to wait and see although judging from the neighbouring farms the retention properties are good, they are still holding water at the end of the dry season and have not have any clay lining etc to assist in this so I am assuming all will be ok.

Thanks again for the assistance and advice

Andy

[chownah]

Khunandy,

When thinking about a pump you need to consider how much water a well can supply....so you should develop the well first and test it before making any firm decision on type of pump.

Also, you seem to be interested in minimizing your power consumption so be advised that an axial flow pump is more effient than a radial flow pump. A radial flow pump is also called a centrifugal pump....an axial flow pump is more like a boat propeller. If you read about this on the internet it will be easier to understand...my description is not so good. I don't feel up to a lengthy discussion (lucky for you!!) right now so I'll just say that it might be good for you to go read up on axial flow pumps if you are interested in efficient pumping........also, if you are interested in efficiency, then be advised that the higher the velocity of the water the less the efficiency of pumping. This means that generally speaking pumps with larger diameter exit ports and pipes will be more efficient than those with smaller ones....also, pumping to a higher pressure than is absolutely necessary is a waste of energy too.

Chownah

P.S. An example of one type of axial flow pump is the long tube type pump that you see farmers using alot that they power with their two wheeled tractors...

Chownah