Would You Fight For Thailand?

[David48]

OK..... so let's change the rules a little.

Let's say that Thailand just happens to be at war with your home country.

Would you find it tough to make a decision?

Would you go back to your country and fight against Thailand?

Why would I want citizenship, as per your OP, of as country I was fighting against.

Confused ...

.

[RustBucket]

OK..... so let's change the rules a little.

Let's say that Thailand just happens to be at war with your home country.

Would you find it tough to make a decision?

Would you go back to your country and fight against Thailand?

Why would I want citizenship, as per your OP, of as country I was fighting against.

Confused ...

.

Because I sensed a resounding 'NO' vote across the board, or at least that was how it was emerging.

So I thought I would spice it up a bit to generate a debate.

Some people may be adamant in their refusal to fight for Thailand at any cost. So I spun around the formula to see if they were feeling a much bigger sense of loyalty to fight for their own country even if it was against Thailand.

Obviously the offer of full citizenship is removed from the second scenario.

I am sure after all that many Germans living in England before the outbreak of the 2 great wars would have put on a uniform and picked up a weapon. (the would have been made to in a lot of cases).

Just trying to stimulate debate.

[neverdie]

I would fight only for my own country.

And why limit it to age 30's? For those of us who have handled rifles all of our lives and hunted and practiced many, many thousands of rounds, know how to disguise ourselves, know how to move around without been seen or smelled even by cagy wild animals...

I could kill 20 of them before they even knew where I was.

It's one thing to shoot innocent unarmed animals for sport and another to engage an armed person in a fire fight. Unarmed wildlife does NOT shoot back.

You seemed to have underestimated the fact that you might be up against a trained army or military with firepower a bit heavier than a 308 lever action rifle. Soldiers undergo extensive training in some instances, they have backup, co-ordinated support and weaponry to vaporise you and your little weapon.

Most gun hoe gun slingers would run from the fields squealing like little biatches, when the real game started....but who am I to get in the way of your Rambo fantasy!

55555555.

Thanks for the laugh neversure, you are funny.

Edited November 6, 2014 by neverdie

[Beetlejuice]

I definitely wouldn't fight for Thailand, and would treat their offer of citizenship with the disdain it deserves.

I have already saved the life of two Thais by paying hundreds of thousands in hospital bills, am raising two and supporting others.

They should probably consider me a national hero, but alas....

Why did you pay hundreds of thousands in hospital bills for two Thais, are raising two and supporting others? Just curious as that would be a strange attitude to have if they were members of your own family, because I certainly would not considering raising my kids as raising three Thais and I do not understand what you mean by supporting others? In which way are you giving them support? Just curious because it all sounds rather weird.

Well, both were relatives of my wife, and no one else on the family was running around dipping into their cash to solve the problem.

Most other countries make it considerably simpler to obtain citizenship after being married and contributing millions of baht in taxes. Thailand chooses another path with very limited paths to citizenship.

I lived there for 18 years, learned the lingo, made many friends, got hurt by a couple that taught me quite a lesson.

To this day, I still fund members of the family who have no pension to speak of. I won't worry where the taxes I spent have ended up, but as a son in law, I think I have more than done my bit.

Yes I am raising my own children who are Thai. We will complete this in the UK, where my wife won't have to scrabble her way to immigration every 90 days, will be free to work with discriminination and will become British in just a few years.

There are many aspects of Thailand I love, but am awful lot I dislike, not the least of which is the legal attitude to long staying foreigners who contribute.

Last week I was shopping at Tops supermarket in Robinson inside the Airport Plaza in Chiang Mai. 2 Thai ladies approached me and asked if I would contribute some money towards the refugees? I did not bother asking who are these refugees and responded by saying; the Thais would never let me stay in Thailand as a refugee or as anything else if I had no money and if i did fall down on my luck like so many other farangs who have been in the news lately and only saw one way out by committing suicide such as jumping off high buildings, would anyone give a rat`s behind about me, my welfare and whether I could survive or not? I think not. The 2 ladies looked at me in astonishment and failed to understand my attitude as most Thais do.

Over the years I stopped being the Mr kind and considerate guy and now place only the welfare of myself and immediate family as priority, only giving to who I want to give to of my own free will, my philosophy now being, charity starts at home, so in other words what farangs decide to give and to whom is up to them, no one is forcing their hand and it will not give them stronger rights to remain here with Immigration and the authorities, also in actuality I have found that people respect me more for being who I am rather than some soft, too good hearted schmuck there to be taken advantage off. .

[Thai at Heart]

I definitely wouldn't fight for Thailand, and would treat their offer of citizenship with the disdain it deserves.

I have already saved the life of two Thais by paying hundreds of thousands in hospital bills, am raising two and supporting others.

They should probably consider me a national hero, but alas....

Why did you pay hundreds of thousands in hospital bills for two Thais, are raising two and supporting others? Just curious as that would be a strange attitude to have if they were members of your own family, because I certainly would not considering raising my kids as raising three Thais and I do not understand what you mean by supporting others? In which way are you giving them support? Just curious because it all sounds rather weird.

Well, both were relatives of my wife, and no one else on the family was running around dipping into their cash to solve the problem.

Most other countries make it considerably simpler to obtain citizenship after being married and contributing millions of baht in taxes. Thailand chooses another path with very limited paths to citizenship.

I lived there for 18 years, learned the lingo, made many friends, got hurt by a couple that taught me quite a lesson.

To this day, I still fund members of the family who have no pension to speak of. I won't worry where the taxes I spent have ended up, but as a son in law, I think I have more than done my bit.

Yes I am raising my own children who are Thai. We will complete this in the UK, where my wife won't have to scrabble her way to immigration every 90 days, will be free to work with discriminination and will become British in just a few years.

There are many aspects of Thailand I love, but am awful lot I dislike, not the least of which is the legal attitude to long staying foreigners who contribute.

Last week I was shopping at Tops supermarket in Robinson inside the Airport Plaza in Chiang Mai. 2 Thai ladies approached me and asked if I would contribute some money towards the refugees? I did not bother asking who are these refugees and responded by saying; the Thais would never let me stay in Thailand as a refugee or as anything else if I had no money and if i did fall down on my luck like so many other farangs who have been in the news lately and only saw one way out by committing suicide such as jumping off high buildings, would anyone give a rat`s behind about me, my welfare and whether I could survive or not? I think not. The 2 ladies looked at me in astonishment and failed to understand my attitude as most Thais do.

Over the years I stopped being the Mr kind and considerate guy and now place only the welfare of myself and immediate family as priority, only giving to who I want to give to of my own free will, my philosophy now being, charity starts at home, so in other words what farangs decide to give and to whom is up to them, no one is forcing their hand and it will not give them stronger rights to remain here with Immigration and the authorities, also in actuality I have found that people respect me more for being who I am rather than some soft, too good hearted schmuck there to be taken advantage off. .

I draw the line at direct relatives. I don't consider myself strange for contributing to save a life of someone I have become close to. I can call it expedient but supporting my mother in law is a necessity because without me, nothing works.

I find it incredibly weird in their attitude to foreigners who are actively raising children in Thailand. Presuming that many are providing the finance to enable educating and caring for Thai citizens, they still make it hard for father's to stay, and largely impossible to work.

And I hold this against the British rules for immigration now, which can separate a family due to financial problems. Families should be together, and parents allowed to work to provide for their family. That is a basic right I believe.

[AYJAYDEE]

I definitely wouldn't fight for Thailand, and would treat their offer of citizenship with the disdain it deserves.

I have already saved the life of two Thais by paying hundreds of thousands in hospital bills, am raising two and supporting others.

They should probably consider me a national hero, but alas....

Why did you pay hundreds of thousands in hospital bills for two Thais, are raising two and supporting others? Just curious as that would be a strange attitude to have if they were members of your own family, because I certainly would not considering raising my kids as raising three Thais and I do not understand what you mean by supporting others? In which way are you giving them support? Just curious because it all sounds rather weird.

Well, both were relatives of my wife, and no one else on the family was running around dipping into their cash to solve the problem.

Most other countries make it considerably simpler to obtain citizenship after being married and contributing millions of baht in taxes. Thailand chooses another path with very limited paths to citizenship.

I lived there for 18 years, learned the lingo, made many friends, got hurt by a couple that taught me quite a lesson.

To this day, I still fund members of the family who have no pension to speak of. I won't worry where the taxes I spent have ended up, but as a son in law, I think I have more than done my bit.

Yes I am raising my own children who are Thai. We will complete this in the UK, where my wife won't have to scrabble her way to immigration every 90 days, will be free to work with discriminination and will become British in just a few years.

There are many aspects of Thailand I love, but am awful lot I dislike, not the least of which is the legal attitude to long staying foreigners who contribute.

Last week I was shopping at Tops supermarket in Robinson inside the Airport Plaza in Chiang Mai. 2 Thai ladies approached me and asked if I would contribute some money towards the refugees? I did not bother asking who are these refugees and responded by saying; the Thais would never let me stay in Thailand as a refugee or as anything else if I had no money and if i did fall down on my luck like so many other farangs who have been in the news lately and only saw one way out by committing suicide such as jumping off high buildings, would anyone give a rat`s behind about me, my welfare and whether I could survive or not? I think not. The 2 ladies looked at me in astonishment and failed to understand my attitude as most Thais do.

Over the years I stopped being the Mr kind and considerate guy and now place only the welfare of myself and immediate family as priority, only giving to who I want to give to of my own free will, my philosophy now being, charity starts at home, so in other words what farangs decide to give and to whom is up to them, no one is forcing their hand and it will not give them stronger rights to remain here with Immigration and the authorities, also in actuality I have found that people respect me more for being who I am rather than some soft, too good hearted schmuck there to be taken advantage off. .

so refugees from other countries pay for your dislike of the way thailand treats you?? wow!! and you say you get respect for this??

[MAJIC]

I suggest you read this,before continuing with your pointless argument!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

I suggest you consider this before you further embarrass yourself.

Just ONE country!

Of the 27 million draft-age men between 1964 and 1973, 40% were drafted into military service, and only 10% were actually sent to Vietnam.

Go to bed! there's a good chap!

lol! no answer I see!! need more??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Australia

You are writing rambling nonsense, stabbing at totally irrelevant articles,which have no connection to the subject: so what is your answer:would you "fight for Thailand" so there is your question,focus and ??? think carefully and decide your answer?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This topic is not about WW2, baby boomers or Vietnam.

[RustBucket]

OK... so let's say at the current situation of peacetime.

If the Thai authorities for example offered full Thai citizenship with full voting rights and everything else that comes part and parcel with being a Thai such as land ownership etc. But they made you sign an agreement that if at any time in the future Thailand found itself in a state of war, then you must be available to be conscripted into active service.

Would you reach for the carrot?

[kannot]

id be reluctant to fight for any country let alone Thailand, often these so called " wars" are a total waste of time, Iraq is doing so well now isnt it.

[draftvader]

No, I would not fight for Thailand. Our daughter (British - British) was born in Thailand to parents on back-to-back non-immi visas. She has no rights here at all, nor do we. If Thailand was to give rights in our situation (as is the case in England after 5 years of good behaviour, paying tax and not breaking the law) and we decided to take them up on that then I would fight if the country was invaded.

The Thailand/UK fight? If the UK invaded Thailand I would leave and move to another country (not back to the UK). If Thailand invaded the UK you had better believe I would be back in Blighty to defend, but that is true of any country who decided to invade the UK.

[kannot]

After you had fought in "their" war doubtless they would then start removing your privileges just like the Thai Elite card.

[Thai at Heart]

OK... so let's say at the current situation of peacetime.

If the Thai authorities for example offered full Thai citizenship with full voting rights and everything else that comes part and parcel with being a Thai such as land ownership etc. But they made you sign an agreement that if at any time in the future Thailand found itself in a state of war, then you must be available to be conscripted into active service.

Would you reach for the carrot?

This always begs the question that Thailand would be fighting the good fight.

Thailand's only fight recently is Phraer Viharn, and that is infinitely more bogus than despotism or any other reason Thailand could find to go to war.

I couldn't find myself any person in Thailand to give a principled argument why to fight, let alone to fight for them.

[Soutpeel]

OK... so let's say at the current situation of peacetime.

If the Thai authorities for example offered full Thai citizenship with full voting rights and everything else that comes part and parcel with being a Thai such as land ownership etc. But they made you sign an agreement that if at any time in the future Thailand found itself in a state of war, then you must be available to be conscripted into active service.

Would you reach for the carrot?

No...

and why would they even offer something like this, giving you citizenship on the promise of of something that may never happen, or even if it did a person may renege on the agreement and bugger off any way with your citizenship and come back when its safe. your wanting something up front

If someone truly believed they had the a moral duty to fight for Thailand on the basis that it was the "right" thing to do or for the love of the country one wouldn't need to be offered the carrot of citizenship as a precondition, you would fight anyway and if at the end of it Thailand gave you citizenship in recognition of "services" rendered/contribution to the country then that's well and good

your posts is a case of "whats in it for me" so your being rather mercenary

[Thai at Heart]

OK... so let's say at the current situation of peacetime.

If the Thai authorities for example offered full Thai citizenship with full voting rights and everything else that comes part and parcel with being a Thai such as land ownership etc. But they made you sign an agreement that if at any time in the future Thailand found itself in a state of war, then you must be available to be conscripted into active service.

Would you reach for the carrot?

No...

and why would they even offer something like this, giving you citizenship on the promise of of something that may never happen, or even if it did a person may renege on the agreement and bugger off any way with your citizenship and come back when its safe. your wanting something up front

If someone truly believed they had the a moral duty to fight for Thailand on the basis that it was the "right" thing to do or for the love of the country one wouldn't need to be offered the carrot of citizenship as a precondition, you would fight anyway and if at the end of it Thailand gave you citizenship in recognition of "services" rendered/contribution to the country then that's well and good

your posts is a case of "whats in it for me" so your being rather mercenary

Precisely.

From a UK point of view, this encapsulates why Tony Blair damaged the UK so much by lying over WMD.

Fighting the good fight makes it easy to support. Who would anyone trust in Thailand to fight for. A politician? An army general?

Now excuse me while I giggle a little.

[CraigSchuler]

I would fight my way to the airport....After that, they are on their own!....

[bkkjames]

I would because of my sons and wife. However I would probably need a work permit to do so and couldn't qualify cause it's a profession reserved for Thais.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

What is Thailand, the general, or the former democracy?

Just who would we be fighting for?

And if I were to declare who I would fight for, the mods would have to delete my post, as anything counter to the Junta is illegal.

Edited November 7, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[namdocmai]

No, i would only fight for a country that i really like and which respects me as well. That would be Australia in my case and no i'm not an aussie and still young enough to fight.

In Thailand i have the feeling that nobody at all cares wether i die or get scammed. They only want my money and i even have to show that to them (cash) before they let me go to my wife.

[Seastallion]

I'm Thai, and interested in this topic , no wonder for the answers... seem fair

but if all your family here what you guys will do?

Join the fight

Back to your homeland

or just get away from the battlefield

this is just question... feel free for it

As Beetlejuice said, it would have to be the good fight, not something that if I were sitting in my home country observing I would criticise as immoral.

The reality is that we would be used as cannon fodder, so I think I would only volunteer as an officer and only in a support role. Honorary citizenship would be fair.

If all those conditions were the case, I'd be proud to serve.

(And the scenario of if the war was with my home country...as has been said, we'd be all rounded up. And that is quite proper.)

Dad's Army with a Thai twist.

Or would it be more like It Aint Arf Hot Mum.

[Seastallion]

OK... so let's say at the current situation of peacetime.

If the Thai authorities for example offered full Thai citizenship with full voting rights and everything else that comes part and parcel with being a Thai such as land ownership etc. But they made you sign an agreement that if at any time in the future Thailand found itself in a state of war, then you must be available to be conscripted into active service.

Would you reach for the carrot?

No...

and why would they even offer something like this, giving you citizenship on the promise of of something that may never happen, or even if it did a person may renege on the agreement and bugger off any way with your citizenship and come back when its safe. your wanting something up front

If someone truly believed they had the a moral duty to fight for Thailand on the basis that it was the "right" thing to do or for the love of the country one wouldn't need to be offered the carrot of citizenship as a precondition, you would fight anyway and if at the end of it Thailand gave you citizenship in recognition of "services" rendered/contribution to the country then that's well and good

your posts is a case of "whats in it for me" so your being rather mercenary

I take your mercenary point, however,it's not as if I am signing up to fight in Angola for a side that I may have no idea who's right and who's wrong, Also, Thailand does need to recognise it's good farangs.

[Soutpeel]

Also, Thailand does need to recognise it's good farangs.

Exactly, therefore if said farang had done their "duty" for Thailand without the carrot on a stick incentive, then yes Thailand would be recognizing its "good" farang's by giving them citizenship

as they have done their duty for the country because they believed it was the right thing to do.

[Beetlejuice]

I draw the line at direct relatives. I don't consider myself strange for contributing to save a life of someone I have become close to. I can call it expedient but supporting my mother in law is a necessity because without me, nothing works.

I find it incredibly weird in their attitude to foreigners who are actively raising children in Thailand. Presuming that many are providing the finance to enable educating and caring for Thai citizens, they still make it hard for father's to stay, and largely impossible to work.

And I hold this against the British rules for immigration now, which can separate a family due to financial problems. Families should be together, and parents allowed to work to provide for their family. That is a basic right I believe.

Once had an argument with a Thai over this issue. He said that it is easy for me to get into Thailand but extremely difficult for a Thai to get into Britain. My response to him was; it maybe more difficult for a Thai to go to Britain, but once in they are in, and for farangs it maybe easier for them to get into Thailand, but once in the trick then becomes being able to stay here.

My personal opinion is and it is just my opinion not saying I am right, that as regards Immigration, Britain has got it wrong and Thailand has got it right because the Thais put the interests of their own people first plus I would hate to see Westerners given any footholds in Thailand, having been married to Thais and with families or not. The more difficult it becomes for farangs to stay here for the long term, the more I like it for various reasons, which now leads me back to the original topic of this thread that if Thailand ever offered westerners Thai citizenship for fighting in a Thai war the cons would out weight the pros because if the country fell to western influences it would eventually destroy Thai culture, Pattaya being a typical example how how Thailand would be shaped by influxes of farangs into the country.

I was shocked to learn some years ago that there is such a thing as war tourists, war torn countries that actually invite westerners to fight for them. They don`t get paid, just armed and they actually fight for fun. Difficult to believe but it`s fact. My point being that if Thailand did invite farangs to fight on their behalf than it would mostly attract the nutters rather than those fighting for a cause loyal to Thailand.

[h90]

No way I would risk my life for some politicians or lines on the map.

I would fight for my way of life. If say radical Muslims (no Muslim bashing intended, just as easy to understand example) would take over my country and insisting on Sharia in the more extreme way, I would be ready to fight.

But if the letters on the map say Thailand/China/Cambodia doesn't really interest me as long as I continue my life somehow.

[Chwooly]

This is funny, Most of those that answered probably have never fought for anything in their lives except when they think they are being overcharged for a Chang. And how many of the "Shhhh I can tell you but I would have to kill you crowd" think they still have the skills needed if they ever had them at all.

Just think Vietnam vs France, Vietnam vs USA.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Chwooly

[bkkjames]

This is funny, Most of those that answered probably have never fought for anything in their lives except when they think they are being overcharged for a Chang. And how many of the "Shhhh I can tell you but I would have to kill you crowd" think they still have the skills needed if they ever had them at all.

Just think Vietnam vs France, Vietnam vs USA.

Speaking from experience?

[Chwooly]

This is funny, Most of those that answered probably have never fought for anything in their lives except when they think they are being overcharged for a Chang. And how many of the "Shhhh I can tell you but I would have to kill you crowd" think they still have the skills needed if they ever had them at all.

Just think Vietnam vs France, Vietnam vs USA.

Speaking from experience?

From the looks of things I must have been channeling you

[jdinasia]

BTW,

If needed I would fight to protect my family in Thailand against a foreign invader.

I would do so without any incentives.

Edited November 7, 2014 by jdinasia

[lust]

"Falang, go clear trench".

lol

[MobileContent]

If I would fight for Thailand and join a foreign army I will have problems with the German government.

The Southerner wouldn't fight for Thailand, the Northeast might too not fight for Thailand and the Chinese in Bangkok would move to Singapore or Western countries and bring their money with them.

Thailand would be knocked years back. My guess is that Thai's will fight each other as they have been done for centuries.

I would bring my lassie and little boy to Singapore.

Edited November 7, 2014 by MobileContent