Would You Fight For Thailand?

[Jingthing]

I would not fight in any war, on any side. All these wannabie rambos are just children with bigger toys and no consequences!! Name ONE war that ended well ????

A bigger question. Of course many wars are fought that never should have been started in the first place. But to suggest there is never such a thing as a good and NECESSARY reason to fight for your country is rather Pollyanna.

Thailand expats ... is Thailand REALLY your country? Perhaps if you think so, you're deluding yourself, because in my view, as a NON-immigrant, "Thailand" is just not that INTO you.

If you're a Thai citizen, you're now a Thai ... so totally different.

Permanent resident ... more of a grey area.

NON-immigrant ... not a grey area.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[ZAKY]

Definitely i would : IF -

- Thai people look at me as a Thai

- That i am granted citizenship of Thailand on the ground that my wife is Thai

But unfortunately The difference in Thailand is not against the farangs only but against neighbourhood nationalities like the Laotian, Cambogian, burmese, vietnamese, Chinese, Malay etc... Even these people i mentionned form part of the Thai nation.

So how can this be true

[CharlieH]

Off topic posts removed

[thailiketoo]

Why?

This is an expat forum.

Most members here are foreigners who are not permanent residents or citizens.

Thailand isn't very open to actual immigrants anyway.

Why would it be logical for such FOREIGNERS to fight for a FOREIGN country? Thailand, or anywhere?

Do you think Thais expect that of FOREIGNERS?

Thailand makes treaty's with foreign governments that commit those governments to fight for Thailand. Why would you find this unusual?

Oh please, are you havin' a laugh?

The question has NOTHING to do with treaties.

It's directed OBVIOUSLY at independent expats here in Thailand. Would THEY personally fight. Nothing about their governments or their government's armies. Of course if you're in a non-Thai army and your government gives orders, you go anywhere including Thailand.

The question does touch on foreigners who are not immigrants here in the legal sense LOYALTY to the abstraction of the Thai nation. I have none and would expect NONE from foreigners with my legal status in my home country towards there as well. It's only LOGICAL.

Duh and double duh.

You wrote, "Oh please, are you havin' a laugh?"

I know a lot of Farangs who work for the Thai military today. I knew a lot more who worked with the Thai military in the past. Only a few years ago I worked for the Thai military.

See your Duh and double duh and raise you one. I know an Aussie who works 8 hours a day for the Thai Navy and has for a few years. Nothing unusual going on here.

[jpinx]

I would not fight in any war, on any side. All these wannabie rambos are just children with bigger toys and no consequences!! Name ONE war that ended well ????

A bigger question. Of course many wars are fought that never should have been started in the first place. But to suggest there is never such a thing as a good and NECESSARY reason to fight for your country is rather Pollyanna.

Thailand expats ... is Thailand REALLY your country? Perhaps if you think so, you're deluding yourself, because in my view, as a NON-immigrant, "Thailand" is just not that INTO you.

If you're a Thai citizen, you're now a Thai ... so totally different.

Permanent resident ... more of a grey area.

NON-immigrant ... not a grey area.

==========================================

Am I reading you correctly when I say that you discriminate between *starting* a war as opposed to a defending action ?

The answers lie in the history of many civilisations. Even those who were thoroughly "defeated" soon rose again to supremacy. Look at Germany today

If Thailand gets sucked into some alliance with Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, etc, in a defence against China over the South China Sea - then the treaties with several countries, including many expats home countries, will kick in and there'll be expats nations involved anyway -- making the OP a moot point.

[Jingthing]

Thailiketoo: I actually don't see your point. So, a big so what?

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I would not fight in any war, on any side. All these wannabie rambos are just children with bigger toys and no consequences!! Name ONE war that ended well ????

A bigger question. Of course many wars are fought that never should have been started in the first place. But to suggest there is never such a thing as a good and NECESSARY reason to fight for your country is rather Pollyanna.

Thailand expats ... is Thailand REALLY your country? Perhaps if you think so, you're deluding yourself, because in my view, as a NON-immigrant, "Thailand" is just not that INTO you.

If you're a Thai citizen, you're now a Thai ... so totally different.

Permanent resident ... more of a grey area.

NON-immigrant ... not a grey area.

==========================================

Am I reading you correctly when I say that you discriminate between *starting* a war as opposed to a defending action ?

The answers lie in the history of many civilisations. Even those who were thoroughly "defeated" soon rose again to supremacy. Look at Germany today

If Thailand gets sucked into some alliance with Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, etc, in a defence against China over the South China Sea - then the treaties with several countries, including many expats home countries, will kick in and there'll be expats nations involved anyway -- making the OP a moot point.

Again, the OP was clearly asking this question to INDEPENDENT expat people. If you want to start a thread about treaties and national commitment, totally different topic.

Anyway, I am reading this attempt to HIJACK this thread away from the question to INDEPENDENT EXPATS towards questions of national treaties to be a kind of admission that there is no good and rational reason for non-immigrant foreign expats in Thailand to feel any nationalistic loyalty to Thailand to the point of fighting for it as it is clearly NOT THEIR COUNTRY. Exceptions may indeed be foreigners with THAI ancestry who would be rational to feel Thai nationalism and probably eligible to become Thai if they chose that path.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[thailiketoo]

Thailiketoo: I actually don't see your point. So, a big so what?

Normally when responding to a post you quote the other post so people can follow the discussion.

You wrote, "It's directed OBVIOUSLY at independent expats here in Thailand. Would THEY personally fight. Nothing about their governments or their government's armies. "

I wrote many Farangs work for the Thai military (fighting or whatever it's all the same in the military because that is the purpose of the military) today and in the past including myself both with the US army and after as a civilian and I'm not unusual. Many people work for the Thai military as contractors or under many other names but the purpose is fighting or being prepared to fight the countries enemies.

[jdinasia]

Why?

This is an expat forum.

Most members here are foreigners who are not permanent residents or citizens.

Thailand isn't very open to actual immigrants anyway.

Why would it be logical for such FOREIGNERS to fight for a FOREIGN country? Thailand, or anywhere?

Do you think Thais expect that of FOREIGNERS?

Thailand makes treaty's with foreign governments that commit those governments to fight for Thailand. Why would you find this unusual?

Oh please, are you havin' a laugh?

The question has NOTHING to do with treaties.

It's directed OBVIOUSLY at independent expats here in Thailand. Would THEY personally fight. Nothing about their governments or their government's armies. Of course if you're in a non-Thai army and your government gives orders, you go anywhere including Thailand.

The question does touch on foreigners who are not immigrants here in the legal sense LOYALTY to the abstraction of the Thai nation. I have none and would expect NONE from foreigners with my legal status in my home country towards there as well. It's only LOGICAL.

Duh and double duh.

You wrote, "Oh please, are you havin' a laugh?"

I know a lot of Farangs who work for the Thai military today. I knew a lot more who worked with the Thai military in the past. Only a few years ago I worked for the Thai military.

See your Duh and double duh and raise you one. I know an Aussie who works 8 hours a day for the Thai Navy and has for a few years. Nothing unusual going on here.

I know several (other than myself) who work for one of the branches of the Thai military. I don't work for a branch, I work for RTARF.

[Jingthing]

Thailiketoo: I actually don't see your point. So, a big so what?

Normally when responding to a post you quote the other post so people can follow the discussion.

You wrote, "It's directed OBVIOUSLY at independent expats here in Thailand. Would THEY personally fight. Nothing about their governments or their government's armies. "

I wrote many Farangs work for the Thai military (fighting or whatever it's all the same in the military because that is the purpose of the military) today and in the past including myself both with the US army and after as a civilian and I'm not unusual. Many people work for the Thai military as contractors or under many other names but the purpose is fighting or being prepared to fight the countries enemies.

Again, so what? You're citing a weird exception that really has NOTHING to do with the actual general question. But if you actually think you have proven there is a good reason for NON-immigrant foreigners in general to fight for Thailand, enjoy the feeling.

[jpinx]

No attempt to hijack anything -- it's a valid thought for expats that if they are here maybe teaching and there's a call-up or opportunity to join-up in his own country when some alliance kick in as I described -- will he join up voluntarily or will he hide in deepest Issan?

[Jingthing]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

[jpinx]

What about people who hold multiple nationalities .. especially if two of his nationalities fall on opposite sides of a conflict? What happens to an expat who's married to a chinese lady and working in Thailand?

Really war screws everything -- just don't do it !!!!!!

[HooHaa]

would i fight for any country?

NO.

Do i fight in general?

NO.

[thailiketoo]

Thailiketoo: I actually don't see your point. So, a big so what?

Normally when responding to a post you quote the other post so people can follow the discussion.

You wrote, "It's directed OBVIOUSLY at independent expats here in Thailand. Would THEY personally fight. Nothing about their governments or their government's armies. "

I wrote many Farangs work for the Thai military (fighting or whatever it's all the same in the military because that is the purpose of the military) today and in the past including myself both with the US army and after as a civilian and I'm not unusual. Many people work for the Thai military as contractors or under many other names but the purpose is fighting or being prepared to fight the countries enemies.

Again, so what? You're citing a weird exception that really has NOTHING to do with the actual general question. But if you actually think you have proven there is a good reason for NON-immigrant foreigners in general to fight for Thailand, enjoy the feeling.

It is only a weird exception to you because you are uninformed. Hundreds if not thousands of Farang work for the Thai military; they do it for money. Why do you think non conscripted soldiers fight? Money. It's a job. It has everything to do with the question. Would you fight for Thailand? Soldiers get paid so the money is assumed, I assume. Do you know of any soldiers that fight for free? I don't. There are countries that I would not fight for regardless of how much they paid me Syria for example or Russia but not Thailand or Canada.

Look at it in another way. Lets say you are a computer expert and the Thai military offers you a million dollars to find a trojan virus in their system. Would you?

Edited November 9, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Jingthing]

OK, you win, not so weird, still exceptions.

[thailiketoo]

OK, you win, not so weird, still exceptions.

I edited after you posted sorry. Would you do computer work for the Thai military for a million dollars if they asked for your expertise? Maybe they needed restaurant reviews written to pass coded messages to secret operatives.

[Jingthing]

OK, you win, not so weird, still exceptions.

I edited after you posted sorry. Would you do computer work for the Thai military for a million dollars if they asked for your expertise? Maybe they needed restaurant reviews written to pass coded messages to secret operatives.

You're just playing games now. Not interesting.

Next ...

[thailiketoo]

OK, you win, not so weird, still exceptions.

I edited after you posted sorry. Would you do computer work for the Thai military for a million dollars if they asked for your expertise? Maybe they needed restaurant reviews written to pass coded messages to secret operatives.

You're just playing games now. Not interesting.

Next ...

No I was serious. Many of us have specialties that can be weaponized. If you had a skill that the Thai army needed would you be available for a price?

[Jingthing]

I find the question irrelevant to the intent of the question in the OP. So not playing this game. Cheers.

[thailiketoo]

I have an acquaintance who teaches a skill to Thai naval officers (it is a skill not very much used in the modern navy). They pay him good money to do this. I'm also qualified to teach this subject and would do it if he ever quits. Like I said before I would not do this for Russia or Syria or Iran or ISIS but I would for Thailand. I think this gets at the real motivation of the OP and adds some reality to the question. Only 1 out of 8 or so actually fight in any army anyway; the rest are support troops. Support troops are just as important as the combat guys in the end analysis.

Edited November 9, 2014 by thailiketoo

[jdinasia]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

As a large number of us do indeed have families here, many of us would have an excellent reason to defend Thailand.

People who have been here years and don't have type of connection to the country, I honestly feel a little pity for.

[Jingthing]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

As a large number of us do indeed have families here, many of us would have an excellent reason to defend Thailand.

People who have been here years and don't have type of connection to the country, I honestly feel a little pity for.

Funny. I "honestly" feel people who think they are Thai when the government of Thailand doesn't agree are delusional.

BTW, derisive and Insincere fake "pity" is never welcome.

Reminds me when U.S.A. southerners say "Bless their hearts" when they're insulting people.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

Absolutely nothing fake in my pity for people that live somewhere for years and don't have deep and abiding feelings for the place and the people. The worst thing I could imagine would be life without the love I feel for the people in my life and the love that they freely give me

BTW I don't think I am Thai, though maybe someday.

[Mossfinn]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

As a large number of us do indeed have families here, many of us would have an excellent reason to defend Thailand.

People who have been here years and don't have type of connection to the country, I honestly feel a little pity for.

Funny. I "honestly" feel people who think they are Thai when the government of Thailand doesn't agree are delusional.

Show me where JD says he thinks he is Thai?

[rayongchelsea]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

As a large number of us do indeed have families here, many of us would have an excellent reason to defend Thailand.

People who have been here years and don't have type of connection to the country, I honestly feel a little pity for.

Please stop with this nonsense. Been here longer than most,family, business the whole nine yards.

Very successful..came as a 21 year old now later 50's. I am very rare in that sense.

I wouldn't defend Thailand ever. I like living here, and the people are generally very nice,but as previous posted said you've got to be delusional, or lacking. I am a foreigner I speak thai well enough..but I am not thai I am not emotionally attached to this country, my family yes, my friends, ex work colleagues , my employees yes,my neighbors yes..

I am pleased to be a foreigner..as I have gotten older I have reverted back to being more and more western....loyalty is earned..it's too one sided.

My opinion of your comment is that it is quite sad..as it is as if you have disowned your own

Identify, and almost a dislike from where you are from.

I have a very strong connection to this country..it's where I have lived my whole adult life near enough..but with that comes experiences and this is country not worthy of an outsiders loyalty.

As say someone who emigrated to Canada or Australia or America at a young age.

I could have pr, declined it.It would make no difference, if they didn't want foreigners regardless of visa status they would ask us to leave.

How's your yearly renewal..must make you very cherished by the country you would defend.

I accept your opinion but please do not pity me or others..I suspect I am in the majority..not the many as you seem to think.

Having a family with children isn't a reason....best thing would be take them back home than defend thailand..the kids would probably be better off..

I like Thailand and the thai people in general..but never.

[mrtoad]

Fine ... there are always exceptions ... but the general question is there is no good reason for foreigners to feel nationalist loyalty to a country that is not their own.

As a large number of us do indeed have families here, many of us would have an excellent reason to defend Thailand.

People who have been here years and don't have type of connection to the country, I honestly feel a little pity for.

Please stop with this nonsense. Been here longer than most,family, business the whole nine yards.

Very successful..came as a 21 year old now later 50's. I am very rare in that sense.

I wouldn't defend Thailand ever. I like living here, and the people are generally very nice,but as previous posted said you've got to be delusional, or lacking. I am a foreigner I speak thai well enough..but I am not thai I am not emotionally attached to this country, my family yes, my friends, ex work colleagues , my employees yes,my neighbors yes..

I am pleased to be a foreigner..as I have gotten older I have reverted back to being more and more western....loyalty is earned..it's too one sided.

My opinion of your comment is that it is quite sad..as it is as if you have disowned your own

Identify, and almost a dislike from where you are from.

I have a very strong connection to this country..it's where I have lived my whole adult life near enough..but with that comes experiences and this is country not worthy of an outsiders loyalty.

As say someone who emigrated to Canada or Australia or America at a young age.

I could have pr, declined it.It would make no difference, if they didn't want foreigners regardless of visa status they would ask us to leave.

How's your yearly renewal..must make you very cherished by the country you would defend.

I accept your opinion but please do not pity me or others..I suspect I am in the majority..not the many as you seem to think.

Having a family with children isn't a reason....best thing would be take them back home than defend thailand..the kids would probably be better off..

I like Thailand and the thai people in general..but never.

Excellent post. Totally agree with the points you raise.

[SlyAnimal]

I wouldn't want to fight, I enjoy life and would prefer to not risk death as a soldier when I would provide minimal benefit to the cause.

As Thailand has millions of 18-40 year olds with military training. A Farang with no military training would be of limited use.

However, I would likely be happy to serve in another way if I had skills that Thai people lacked (e.g. Teaching English to officers/army translators) or to contribute financially within my community in order to ease the burden of the war (e.g. Give money to the families of fallen soldiers, or pay to hire harvesters for the nearby rice fields since manual labour would be scarce).

Although if it ever looked like there might be even a small risk of soldiers overrunning into the area of Thailand where I live, I'd be on the first plane back to NZ with my family.

[Ws93]

Jingthing:

You said something curious to me and I like you to explain more please:

"Exceptions may indeed be foreigners with THAI ancestry who would be rational to feel Thai nationalism and probably eligible to become Thai if they chose that path"

What do you mean by foreigners with Thai ancestry would be rational to feel Thai nationalism?

This is a strange comment but I do agree with it, it's a strange feeling. Do you know why half Thais like mysel would feel like this?

[Jingthing]

Blood.

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