A Thai police officer says he is ready to face consequences for his man's suicide

[webfact]

A police officer says he is ready to face consequences for his man’s suicide

BANGKOK: -- The superintendent of Chanuworalakburi district police in Kamphaeng Phet province said today that he was ready to face any consequences from his boss over the suicide of one of his subordinates on November 10.

Acting Sub-Lt Natthee Kuansingh shot himself in the head in his apartment room with his 9mm automatic pistol on November 10. He was pronounced dead after he was rushed to Chanuworalakburi hospital.

Pol Col Pairoj Kanthabun, the superintendent of Chanuworalakburi district police said that the victim suffered from stress due to his chronic illness. He said he had instructed his men to keep watch on the victim but still he could not prevent him from committing suicide.

The colonel said however that he was willing to any punitive measure against him for failing to prevent or stop the suicide.

He disclosed an initial amount of financial help totaling 27,000 baht had been given to the victim’s widow and a cremation would be held on Thursday at Wat Khu Yang.

Earlier, Pol Gen Somyos Poompanmuang, the national police chief, warned that he would hold police commanders, especially chiefs of police stations, accountable if any of their subordinates commit suicide. The warning came after a report shows high rate of suicides among police officers.

(Photo : Thai PBS File)

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-officer-says-ready-face-consequences-mans-suicide/

-- Thai PBS 2014-11-11

[ClutchClark]

That is quite a responsibility to place on a supervisor--make certain your staff do not commit suicide or you will face a reprimand and punishment.

[cassde]

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

[fstarbkk]

In western countries, including the US, the rate of suicide among police officers is way above the national average. In those countries there are usually elaborate support systems, starting from psychological screening to mandatory counselling after certain incidents. I cannot see that, without al these tools, a commander can be held liable for the personal choices his officers make.

[ClutchClark]

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Law enforcement is a high-stress job the world over. There are several stages of stress and numerous stages of coping strategies.

It is not typical for a victim to share with others just how much they are losing control and suffering--especially an employer. This is true with the vast majority of suicides, those close to the victim were seldom aware of just how much suffering the victim was going through or obviously intervention would occur all the time and we would not see suicides.

Its not reasonable to shift blame onto a supervisor for the personal decision one makes to end their own life.

If there were proof that the employee approached the supervisor and told him he was considering taking his own life then one could argue culpability and a failure to respond accordingly but absent that, then this supervisor has just lost a possible friend and comrade and deserves the same sympathy we would extend to any suicide victims co-workers.

But then this is the suicide of the RTP so will be met with some glee here on TVF.

Edited November 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Toknarok]

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Pistols carried by Thai Police are the personal property of the officer, they have to buy their own guns. Could a commanding officer legally remove his firearm, possibly I don't know, but even if he did there are so many ways of taking one's own life if you are so determined.

What would be a dereliction of duty would be if the officer had suspected he was suicidal and neglected to get his man psychiatric help.

[MediaWatcher]

cassde, on 11 Nov 2014 - 15:35, said:

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Because legally he can not take it away, the police buy their own guns.

[CharlieH]

A number of posts have been removed.

Please show a little respect and sensitivity when posting. A man has died and deserves a little respect as I hope you would show for any person.

Do not use this as an opportunity for petty snipes and sarcastic comment aimed at the RTP.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[fstarbkk]

cassde, on 11 Nov 2014 - 15:35, said:

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Because legally he can not take it away, the police buy their own guns.

Ownership of the weapon is irrelevant. Usually, a law enforcement officer's permission to carry a firearm is contingent on his duties/ service status and as such, can be limited or revoked by his employer.

That being said, a seriously suicidal person would probably find another way to end their life.

[MAJIC]

That is quite a responsibility to place on a supervisor--make certain your staff do not commit suicide or you will face a reprimand and punishment.

Well perhaps he couldnt prevent him from committing suicide,but sending him on long term sick leave,would have been in the right direction!

Edited November 11, 2014 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

A number of posts have been removed.

Please show a little respect and sensitivity when posting. A man has died and deserves a little respect as I hope you would show for any person.

Do not use this as an opportunity for petty snipes and sarcastic comment aimed at the RTP.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

NO. A man has not died and is deserving of respect. A man killed himself and deserves no respect. He has abandoned all who knew him, and he is a coward. he deserves no respect. His Family, and those who knew him deserve the respect.

I have heard this argument many times before. You or any of us,do not know the extent of this mans,problems or suffering,and indeed his state of mind,or his state of health,

I guess you are at the stage of life of a young man,not too experienced, but still think they know it all! who deserves the respect is debatable,there was no one

there to help him,so no prizes or bunches of flowers are necessary, personally I don't think it's cowardly to commit suicide,but you or I wouldn't know that ,unless

you tried it! at that point cowardice may take on a whole new meaning.

And there are also some justifications,i.e incurable illness,a slow painful death,nothing or nobody left to live for, and finally would a person being tortured: also be

a coward for choosing suicide? life is more complex than forming macho opinions!

Edited November 11, 2014 by MAJIC

[The stuttering parrot]

Some very misinformed uneducated and heartless people stalk forums and try and get maximum effect by mocking a tragedy.

It's a big deal these days depression and how to deal with it and for someone to reach the point of suicide is really the last card in the pack.

We now have are you ok day so you can check on your mates or they can check on you and talk about any problems that might lead you down that track.

For the poster who says the man deserves no respect I suggest you rethink your post and I hope you or your family and friends never have to face depression.

[chooka]

Why are ALL Thai police wearing shirts that are 3 sizes too small for them ? Must be a nightmare in the heat

My 1st thought was, they all eat well at the top.

[ClutchClark]

That is quite a responsibility to place on a supervisor--make certain your staff do not commit suicide or you will face a reprimand and punishment.

Well perhaps he couldnt prevent him from committing suicide,but sending him on long term sick leave,would have been in the right direction!

MAGIC,

You are making assumptions about how much this supervisor knew of the subordinates condition.

It would be a challenging protocol that everytime an officer is stressed out he should be given long-term sick leave?

Is that with pay or without pay?

If its with pay then every employee in Thailand would sign up and if its without pay then no officer would ever volunteer any information about stressload.

As it is, I can think of countless times I had co-workers and employees I was responsible for who were going through stressful periods in their life--divorce, death of a loved one, financial issues, etc that warranted my keeping a closer eye on how it was affecting job performance or their safety; however, short of a clear example an employee was a danger to himself or others, I would not have considered sending them on some long-term leave without a request by the employee themself --and you and I both know a suicidal person does not often share the level of their pain with anyone and especially their boss. Even a call from a concerned spouse would, legally speaking, allow me to bring the concern up to HR and to advise the employee of our health insurance coverage for mental health counseling but anything more than that would be a violation of the employees rights. After all, an employee has a right to privacy concerning personal health matters. I would have no right to send them on long-term leave without a formal hearing.

Edited November 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[DaveE13]

Why are ALL Thai police wearing shirts that are 3 sizes too small for them ? Must be a nightmare in the heat

I have always thought this too. Far too many look overweight.

[chooka]

Doesn't the Thai Police have a welfare branch staffed by qualified people such as psychologists as well as welfare services in each region? I thought all police forces would have such a thing considering the stressful nature of the work. Whenever we attend a major incident or a death such as suicides, murder or a fatal car collision welfare are straight on the phone asking how we are if we want to talk and that is then followed up weeks after to see how you are coping. Welfare even stop by the station just to say hello and speak to the troops. They are available 24/7 free service.

[slipperylobster]

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Why? I will not elaborate...but it seems likely he would have committed suicide with, or without the pistol.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[Thaimaishoe]

A number of posts have been removed.

Please show a little respect and sensitivity when posting. A man has died and deserves a little respect as I hope you would show for any person.

Do not use this as an opportunity for petty snipes and sarcastic comment aimed at the RTP.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

NO. A man has not died and is deserving of respect. A man killed himself and deserves no respect. He has abandoned all who knew him, and he is a coward. he deserves no respect. His Family, and those who knew him deserve the respect.

I have heard this argument many times before. You or any of us,do not know the extent of this mans,problems or suffering,and indeed his state of mind,or his state of health,

I guess you are at the stage of life of a young man,not too experienced, but still think they know it all! who deserves the respect is debatable,there was no one

there to help him,so no prizes or bunches of flowers are necessary, personally I don't think it's cowardly to commit suicide,but you or I wouldn't know that ,unless

you tried it! at that point cowardice may take on a whole new meaning.

And there are also some justifications,i.e incurable illness,a slow painful death,nothing or nobody left to live for, and finally would a person being tortured: also be

a coward for choosing suicide? life is more complex than forming macho opinions!

I must admit my level of vitriol is usually reserved for PARENTS who commit suicide prior to completing their commitments. However, that still does not completely absolve individuals without commitments. I acknowledge those with chronic conditions, and/or painfull paths to an assured grave, and indeed I am in favor of euthenasia laws.

But without mitigating circumstances, suicide is a cowardly path.

I will not avail myself of your proffered path of absolution, I am not a young man unknowing of lifes complexities. Alas I am also not a wizened geriatirac with the patience of Job. I am left to navigate the unknown, with what I have been taught, and what I can learn, but these are not "Macho Opinions", these are the results of the surety that 'you only live once'! Those that insult that trueism, by killing themselfs, inspire reaction.

[MAJIC]

A number of posts have been removed.

Please show a little respect and sensitivity when posting. A man has died and deserves a little respect as I hope you would show for any person.

Do not use this as an opportunity for petty snipes and sarcastic comment aimed at the RTP.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

NO. A man has not died and is deserving of respect. A man killed himself and deserves no respect. He has abandoned all who knew him, and he is a coward. he deserves no respect. His Family, and those who knew him deserve the respect.

I have heard this argument many times before. You or any of us,do not know the extent of this mans,problems or suffering,and indeed his state of mind,or his state of health,

I guess you are at the stage of life of a young man,not too experienced, but still think they know it all! who deserves the respect is debatable,there was no one

there to help him,so no prizes or bunches of flowers are necessary, personally I don't think it's cowardly to commit suicide,but you or I wouldn't know that ,unless

you tried it! at that point cowardice may take on a whole new meaning.

And there are also some justifications,i.e incurable illness,a slow painful death,nothing or nobody left to live for, and finally would a person being tortured: also be

a coward for choosing suicide? life is more complex than forming macho opinions!

I must admit my level of vitriol is usually reserved for PARENTS who commit suicide prior to completing their commitments. However, that still does not completely absolve individuals without commitments. I acknowledge those with chronic conditions, and/or painfull paths to an assured grave, and indeed I am in favor of euthenasia laws.

But without mitigating circumstances, suicide is a cowardly path.

I will not avail myself of your proffered path of absolution, I am not a young man unknowing of lifes complexities. Alas I am also not a wizened geriatirac with the patience of Job. I am left to navigate the unknown, with what I have been taught, and what I can learn, but these are not "Macho Opinions", these are the results of the surety that 'you only live once'! Those that insult that trueism, by killing themselfs, inspire reaction.

Hmmm! "and indeed I am in favor of euthenasia laws" so in your view assisted suicide is alright then,but not suicide unassisted! how strange!

Edited November 29, 2014 by MAJIC

[chooka]

cassde, on 11 Nov 2014 - 15:35, said:

We do not know what chronic illness the man had, but if the Supervisor told his men to look after him and he knew he suffered stress, why did he allow the poor man to still retain his duty pistol?

Because legally he can not take it away, the police buy their own guns.

In Australia police have the power to seize firearms from people. They are obligated to and if they don't then they can be held accountable.

[falangjim]

No Thai accepts consequences for ineptness legit or not. Everyone just smiles and accepts the weakest link.

[MJP]

A quite vile post and replies to it has been removed. I wish you lot would learn to use the report button. It would really help sometimes.

[Thaimaishoe]

I have heard this argument many times before. You or any of us,do not know the extent of this mans,problems or suffering,and indeed his state of mind,or his state of health,

I guess you are at the stage of life of a young man,not too experienced, but still think they know it all! who deserves the respect is debatable,there was no one

there to help him,so no prizes or bunches of flowers are necessary, personally I don't think it's cowardly to commit suicide,but you or I wouldn't know that ,unless

you tried it! at that point cowardice may take on a whole new meaning.

And there are also some justifications,i.e incurable illness,a slow painful death,nothing or nobody left to live for, and finally would a person being tortured: also be

a coward for choosing suicide? life is more complex than forming macho opinions!

I must admit my level of vitriol is usually reserved for PARENTS who commit suicide prior to completing their commitments. However, that still does not completely absolve individuals without commitments. I acknowledge those with chronic conditions, and/or painfull paths to an assured grave, and indeed I am in favor of euthenasia laws.

But without mitigating circumstances, suicide is a cowardly path.

I will not avail myself of your proffered path of absolution, I am not a young man unknowing of lifes complexities. Alas I am also not a wizened geriatirac with the patience of Job. I am left to navigate the unknown, with what I have been taught, and what I can learn, but these are not "Macho Opinions", these are the results of the surety that 'you only live once'! Those that insult that trueism, by killing themselfs, inspire reaction.

Hmmm! "and indeed I am in favor of euthenasia laws" so in your view assisted suicide is alright then,but not suicide unassisted! how strange!

Not strange at all. Euthenasia laws require you to convince at least one other person (perhaps even a court) that you should die. If you do not see that as enough distinction between the two situations so be it. I am not here to persuade you, and indeed I do not care if you agree.