Anyone In Chiang Mai whom Speak Phayanak Language

[gp6863]

Dear Chiang Mai Friends,

I'm just wondering if anyone whom can speak or understand Phayanak's Language (so called, the old Thailand language). And able to translate into Mandarin or English..

If possible, can you give me your contact number or mobilepnohe number, I would like to call you and better understand...

You may also wish to drop me a PM <personal email deleted>

Hope to hear from you soon..

Regards,

Peter

Edited November 13, 2014 by CharlieH

[CMHomeboy78]

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Phayanak Language"; but maybe you know something I don't.

Phaya Nak is a Naga, a mythical creature believed to live in the Mekong River. The Naga fireballs are said to come from Phaya Nak every year when he is in the Mekong near Vientiene.

Do you mean Kahm Muang, the Lanna T'ai language? It is still spoken all over Northern Thailand and is very close to the language of the Lao people.

If it is Kahm Muang you are referring to, then Chiang Mai has many native speakers.

Welcome to the forum.

Edited November 13, 2014 by CMHomeboy78

[gp6863]

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Phayanak Language"; but maybe you know something I don't.

Phaya Nak is a Naga, a mythical creature believed to live in the Mekong River. The Naga fireballs are said to come from Phaya Nak every year when he is in the Mekong near Vientiene.

Do you mean Kahm Muang, the Lanna T'ai language? It is still spoken all over Northern Thailand and is very close to the language of the Lao people.

If it is Kahm Muang you are referring to, then Chiang Mai has many native speakers.

Welcome to the forum.

Hi CMH,

I guess you're right, even you mentioned about the fireball... I belief you know Phayanak more than me...! Yes, basically is more of a native speaker.. do you know where can I get contact of these people, or whom or where can I reach them to better understand on this language..

Can you please help or advise.. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Peter

[CMHomeboy78]

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Phayanak Language"; but maybe you know something I don't.

Phaya Nak is a Naga, a mythical creature believed to live in the Mekong River. The Naga fireballs are said to come from Phaya Nak every year when he is in the Mekong near Vientiene.

Do you mean Kahm Muang, the Lanna T'ai language? It is still spoken all over Northern Thailand and is very close to the language of the Lao people.

If it is Kahm Muang you are referring to, then Chiang Mai has many native speakers.

Welcome to the forum.

Hi CMH,

I guess you're right, even you mentioned about the fireball... I belief you know Phayanak more than me...! Yes, basically is more of a native speaker.. do you know where can I get contact of these people, or whom or where can I reach them to better understand on this language..

Can you please help or advise.. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Peter

Native speakers of Kahm Muang are mostly in the neighbourhoods of Chiang Mai.

The condos, gated communities, ban setees, and posh flats have some, but not many.

In the latter part of the 19th century Lanna T'ai - and Chiang Mai which was its capital - lost its sovereignty to the central government in Bangkok. Since then Pa-sah Glahng, or Central Thai, which was the language of the new government, has been used as the medium of instruction in schools and as the language of the bureaucracy.

To learn Kahm Muang, my advice to you is to "go native", at least for a while, and have as much contact and social intercourse as you can with the locals.

Chiang Mai is becoming a city of many languages, but it is still possible to find native speakers of Kahm Muang... you just have to look for them.

Good luck in your quest.

Edited November 13, 2014 by CMHomeboy78

[cmsally]

oo muh hoo liang. Phayanak cuh ayang ?

[CMHomeboy78]

oo muh hoo liang. Phayanak cuh ayang ?

Sounds like phonetic Kahm Muang... hang on Sally, I'll get my wife to translate...

My roo reu-ung? that makes two of us.

Maybe Thai Visa Chiang Mai is entering a strange new incarnation.

He mentioned Mandarin [!]

[cmsally]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

[daoyai]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

[dru2]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

[Mekong Bob]

thanks, dru2, for your "mueang" reference.

"kam mueang" is taught at AUA Language Center in Chiang Mai, upon request.

[hml367]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

Do you know if there is a different dialect spoken in Chiang Rai outside of the city? More precisely in the area near Chiang Saen?

[Briggsy]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

Do you know if there is a different dialect spoken in Chiang Rai outside of the city? More precisely in the area near Chiang Saen?

Yunnanese accented Chinese

[Mekong Bob]

Tai Lu is spoken in some parts of Chiang Saen area.

[cmsally]

Chiang Rai seem to have an upward inflection on a lot of the end syllables.

They definitely do sound a bit different as do those from Nan. Then you have some people that still speak Yong and I think its Thai Khoen as well as Thai Lue.

[Puwa]

Maybe Pa-O? Chiang Rai has a lot of ethic diversity because of migration from Burma.

[millwall_fan]

Still none the wiser about what the OP is looking for. If you want to learn 'Lanna' or Kham Meuang there are several million speakers - my son and wife's family amongst them. You should have no difficulty finding speakers to help you.

[CMHomeboy78]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

Regarding Nagas...

You're no doubt familar with Sumet Jumsai, prominent architect, writer, and young protege of Buckminster Fuller in the early '70s.

His book, Naga: Cultural Origins in Siam and the West Pacific [Oxford 1988. Reprint Chalermnit 1997] is a study of the prehistoric Naga mythology of water symbolism and how it relates to the Hindu-Buddhist cosmological models for art, architecture, and town planning that were introduced to Southeast Asia in historical times.

As someone who follows your work with considerable interest, I think this book - if you don't know about it already - might be relevant to some of your projects.

Best wishes for continued success.

[dru2]

Chiang Rai seem to have an upward inflection on a lot of the end syllables.

They definitely do sound a bit different as do those from Nan. Then you have some people that still speak Yong and I think its Thai Khoen as well as Thai Lue.

Many Chinese resident in Chiang Rai (and Chiang Mai) are "Overland", not "Overseas" Chinese. They hail from Yunnan and speak a Yunnanese variant of Mandarin. The Thais call them "Jin Haw" to distinguish them from the Overseas Chinese who hail from the coast between Guangzhou and Fujian. I speak (...increasingly spoke as I have little practice) Beijing Mandarin and can communicate with the Yunnanese. Coastal Chinese is quite, quite different, in whatever variant (Cantonese, Teochiu, Hakka, Fujianese), and means nothing to me. I have to write to them to communicate.

At which point what I hope is an amusing diversion. The first time I visited Thailand, in 1976, I stayed at a flop house called the Sri Hualampong Hotel in Bangkok. I couldn't speak a word of Thai, but the proprietor looked Chinese to me. I spoke to him in Beijing Mandarin (now called "putonghua" or "common speech"), but no luck. So I wrote to him using Chinese characters, which are universally comprehensible across China (as well as Kanji in Japan). He understood perfectly. To my "Do you understand Chinese?" he responded immediately and fluently: "Yes: Do you want a Thai girl?".

Yong differs from Thai Khoen, but is very close indeed to Tai Lu'. The Tai Yong migrated from Sipsongpanna, the Tai Lu' homeland in Yunnan, to Mueang Yong in Burma c. 1550. I am married to one.

As for Kham Mueang, it all sounds the same to me (I speak some), but native speakers say there is a marked difference between Kham Mueang accents in the west (Chiang Mai, Lamphun, Lampang) and the north, east and south (Chiang Rai, Phayao, Nan, Phrae), which they detect immediately just as I can tell a Londoner from a Yorkshireman and a Liverpudlian.

Hope this is of help.

Edited November 14, 2014 by dru2

[dru2]

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

Regarding Nagas...

You're no doubt familar with Sumet Jumsai, prominent architect, writer, and young protege of Buckminster Fuller in the early '70s.

His book, Naga: Cultural Origins in Siam and the West Pacific [Oxford 1988. Reprint Chalermnit 1997] is a study of the prehistoric Naga mythology of water symbolism and how it relates to the Hindu-Buddhist cosmological models for art, architecture, and town planning that were introduced to Southeast Asia in historical times.

As someone who follows your work with considerable interest, I think this book - if you don't know about it already - might be relevant to some of your projects.

Best wishes for continued success.

Yes, I have the book thank you.

Sorry for the long silence - I have been busy building a house and moving office. Will be in touch soon - A

[Mekong Bob]

Not all Yunnan Chinese in Northetn Thailand and Northwestern Laos are known as "Jin Haw".

Those in Northern Burma are known as "Kokang" Chinese.

[dru2]

Not all Yunnan Chinese in Northetn Thailand and Northwestern Laos are known as "Jin Haw".

Those in Northern Burma are known as "Kokang" Chinese.

Unless they are Hui Muslims, in which case they are called "Panthay".

[hml367]

Thanks, Dru2!

[Mekong Bob]

thanks again dru2. The term "Panthay" maybe limited to Hui Muslims in Burma (only), if I am not mistaken. I thunk the Thai, Khon Mueang, and Lao would use "Kokang"or "JinHaw".

[dru2]

thanks again dru2. The term "Panthay" maybe limited to Hui Muslims in Burma (only), if I am not mistaken. I thunk the Thai, Khon Mueang, and Lao would use "Kokang"or "JinHaw".

You are quite right. The etymology of Panthay is obscure. 'Jin Haw' don't like being called 'Jin Haw'... They prefer 'Chinese' (Zhongguo ren, Huaren) and only make a distinction between Han (non-Muslim) and Hui (Muslim). Interestingly Hans wishing to disparage Chinese Muslims sometimes call them 'chan-tou hui-hui" or "turban heads' (!). Just like at home.....