Buddhism being forced upon my half Thai daughter..,.

[slipperylobster]

I used to enjoy religious instruction at my old school. My old reacher and I had some very interesting discussions in class. Made me see what a heap of crap it was and turned me into a lifelong atheist.

All the Kids I knew at school,had Cristianity foisted on them,when they grew up they made up their own mind,I don't know of one pupil or church goer that believes it now!

Prime example...you get to learn and choose. Nobody forces you to be Christian or anything. You simply are offered the experience. Live the way you like...but at least you know where somebody is coming from, if you learn their side.

[slipperylobster]

Nope.....

http://www.alternet.org/story/155985/5_reasons_america_is_not_--_and_has_never_been_--_a_christian_nation

1. The Text of the Constitution Does Not Say the United States Is a Christian Nation

If a Christian nation had been the intent of the founders, they would have put that in the Constitution, front and center. Yet the text of the Constitution contains no references to God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity. That document does not state that our country is an officially Christian nation.

it is never too late to add a little education/knowledge. here some facts for you:

-"In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum...

-I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God...

-since 1864 every U.S. coin minted says "In God we trust"...

Which God? The coin has not cross or any reference to Christianity. Founding fathers intention was to separate religion from state. Freedom. Not Christianity. Nothing against that choice, on my part...but no...our Government does not endorse any religion, nor does it proclaim Christian God as being the only one we believe in...as a Nation. Jewish religion worships the same God....for example. The bible has one God for Christians, Same for Jewish, and same (God of Abraham) for islam.. believe what you will

[slipperylobster]

America's founding fathers were from the Enlightenment age.... I will not go into it. They believed an Ordered Universe..but not religion made by man, nor priests , nor missionaries.

[slipperylobster]

Religions should be banned for the sake of mankind.

So...the idea you have is police enforcement...any kid that prays to a statue, or blesses his mom and dad before going to sleep, or mentions a belief...gets snuffed out?

Isn't that nice.

[slipperylobster]

Kids are not as dumb as you think they are. Even when taught one religion, they can rationalize out whether that religion is the one they want to keep. The idea is, to have some kind of rationale....

let me explain it simply.

Without darkness...what is the meaning of light?

Same for coldness...what then is warmth?

Take away the good...what is left? Does it always have to be only the bad?

You see the difference... The last idea is philosophical...not physical...as the first two are.

One step further....Religion can be philosophical as well. It can be a series of analogies, ideas, moralities..intangibles.

Without a reference point (a philosophy of life and death...from no matter which perspective/religion) a mind is empty. Full of physical ideas...but a vacuum of philosophical ones.

Science, Math, Language Biology, etc....all good...but meaningless without a philosophy of life.

Even worse is to deny them the understanding of their peers...those who receive that philosophy, that your child must one day tolerate. They must understand why others follow that religion/idea. I think it is critical that they do.

How about Einstein weighing in on this matter.....

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion

"In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

Looked at that link you gave us.. Einstein also said (first line of first paragraph usually summarizes the whole point of the article....)

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." So said Albert Einstein

[robblok]

I am sorry but I really don't understand the OP problem. He moved to a Buddhist country and had a child and is now expressing surprise that she is being exposed to Buddhism

Move back to your home country and you won't have this problem

So if a Thai family moved to America , and they found out their child was

being indoctrinated into Christianity at school, you would advise them to

move back to Thailand ?? Nice one......

If a Thai family enrolled their daughter in a private school in the US then i would not be surprised if it had a Christian agenda. If they did not like that then I would suggest they locate another school with a compatible agenda. I would be quite surprised if they were shocked an american private school had a Christian influence.

I would also be surprised if they cam onto a forum and started criticizing the Christian religion since the US has always been considered founded in Christian principles and they would likely realize it is in rather poor taste to insult other peoples' religions.

Its unfortunate you are hoping to raise your child in your likeness. The last thing humanity needs is more intolerance of other peoples' religions.

Funny guy religion is poison. The last thing the world needs is religion. There is no such thing as a god rational people dont believe. So many people are dying because of religion its a purely evil creation made to control the masses.

I am truly happy i was raised without it. I can't understand why intelligent people would believe in something that cant be proven and isnt likely.

I guess it came from indoctrination when they were younger. Sects are good at it and its used to control people.

Let people grow up without it and then let them choose the majority will laugh at you because its irrational.

[robblok]

Kids are not as dumb as you think they are. Even when taught one religion, they can rationalize out whether that religion is the one they want to keep. The idea is, to have some kind of rationale....

let me explain it simply.

Without darkness...what is the meaning of light?

Same for coldness...what then is warmth?

Take away the good...what is left? Does it always have to be only the bad?

You see the difference... The last idea is philosophical...not physical...as the first two are.

One step further....Religion can be philosophical as well. It can be a series of analogies, ideas, moralities..intangibles.

Without a reference point (a philosophy of life and death...from no matter which perspective/religion) a mind is empty. Full of physical ideas...but a vacuum of philosophical ones.

Science, Math, Language Biology, etc....all good...but meaningless without a philosophy of life.

Even worse is to deny them the understanding of their peers...those who receive that philosophy, that your child must one day tolerate. They must understand why others follow that religion/idea. I think it is critical that they do.

How about Einstein weighing in on this matter.....

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion

"In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

You sure you want to use Einstein as a moral compass?

No but as an intelligent person who knows religion is a fraud. Its should not be taught to children its a crime.

Let them decide when older, but religious people dont want that as because they know no rational intelligent adult will believe in it without indoctrination at early age.

Granted there are a few exceptions but most wpuld not. I can only think of what a good place the world would be without religion and how many lives would be saved from religious conflict.

[Langsuan Man]

Why not have a little faith in your child to be able to make her own mind up about beliefs when she gets older? She will then also be able to assist you with your own understanding.

I do have faith. So I wish for her to be older and be able to reason before she is presented

with the concept of religion. Then she can decide for herself.

You should be more concerned about the here and now

How is this child going to explain why she is not going to be with her classmates since you will take her late to school to avoid the intense Buddha half hour

Even at the age of four there is going to be peer pressure and since she is already "half Thai" the pressure may be enormous

[NanLaew]

As near as I can tell, the Thai " educational" system is designed to keep the lower

class in a condition of permanent ignorance. Not a problem for the wealthy elite,

as they all send their children abroad for a real education. And as you say,

sort of a result of the feudal system of sakdina. And religion in the form of

Buddhism is a part of the process to make the peasants happy with their

lot in life. Meaning the concept of reincarnation. Yeah as a peasant you have

a crappy life now, but just put up with it, and you will come back as something else

that is much better.

No, I have no intention of allowing the school system here to put mindless

tripe in the head of my daughter. So I am planning on going back to America

within the next couple of years so she can receive a real education, and

attend a real university. And then go onto to a real job. The income of Thai

university graduates here is so low as to be astonishing. Many of my friends

here with children are making the same choice. Thailand was fun as a single

man, but no place to raise a child......

OK, you explained the issue and how the school administration have accommodated your plan for your daughter to avoid attending this class.

You have also indicated your commendable longer term plans for her better overall education in the US.

So I would assume that we are done here?

I can only go by what I was told by the administrator at the school. She told me

that Buddhist teaching was 30 minutes on Friday morning from 8:00 to 8:30. I am

not a party to what exactly happens during the course of the day, so perhaps a

farang teacher here could chip in to this thread with a better idea of what actually

happens during the course of the school day....

But... your daughter doesn't need to attend any more, no? Why the ongoing concern?

So if a Thai family moved to America , and they found out their child was

being indoctrinated into Christianity at school, you would advise them to

move back to Thailand ?? Nice one......

Ahhh, I see now. You're on your own personal beliefs soapbox... with a value-added Thai bash with that "five tenets of Buddhism" post.

I hope you will permit your daughter to read up on Buddhism in her own time though.

[thailiketoo]

You sure you want to use Einstein as a moral compass?

No but as an intelligent person who knows religion is a fraud. Its should not be taught to children its a crime.

Let them decide when older, but religious people dont want that as because they know no rational intelligent adult will believe in it without indoctrination at early age.

Granted there are a few exceptions but most wpuld not. I can only think of what a good place the world would be without religion and how many lives would be saved from religious conflict.

I agree with you. Why do you think the OP is so upset? Because he does not like any religion or the indoctrination into Thai culture. It's no secret that Buddhism is a major part of Thai culture the religious aspect is a small part of the larger philosophy. Either way I can understand his plight. My parents tried to indoctrinate me into a Catholic Western culture that I rejected and came to Thailand. I've never seen any monks beat kids or abuse children I have seen children abused and beaten in the West by priests and nuns.

But I can understand the cultural traditions of the OP are now being questioned in Thailand. Rich people in Thailand send their kids to the West to be educated why would the OP not avail his children of that opportunity? I don't think one needs religion as a crutch. Just admit education is better in the West and act on that fact.

[Bkungbank]

A little girl will learn life way of living and nature loving not religion as she has right to choose when she grow up later, everything that's good should be accepted, Christain also teaching to respect others and love the world.

Don't be too serious about what she believe but more what she is a good person or not? School nowdays are failed to educate way of life some students get low grade commit suicide Japan, Korea etc which no goal of life. It's good to learn many aspect of religion then decide what she really wants.

[Mrjlh]

For the lighter side both George Carlin and Dave Allen has some takes on religion:

[slipperylobster]

I was six years old, and placed in a private catholic school for 8 years. This was hard corps, Franciscan. (Strict adherence to humility and poverty). We never were taught aggression. We were taught only to love and honor. We were not taught to fight other religions, but to tolerate them. In our church, we held hands and prayed for peace.

There was no training for war, no lessons on how to disarm and kill an aggressor, no kickboxing, not even fighting amongst ourselves was tolerated.

The only harm done....I was like a lamb in the Australian outback, when I left that school. Unprepared for the real world. The Marine Corps took away the sheep skin and underneath, there was ...something of a man left. I consider myself balanced...now.

Bottom line.....Religion never made me stupid and never made me a killer.

[robblok]

You sure you want to use Einstein as a moral compass?

No but as an intelligent person who knows religion is a fraud. Its should not be taught to children its a crime.

Let them decide when older, but religious people dont want that as because they know no rational intelligent adult will believe in it without indoctrination at early age.

Granted there are a few exceptions but most wpuld not. I can only think of what a good place the world would be without religion and how many lives would be saved from religious conflict.

I agree with you. Why do you think the OP is so upset? Because he does not like any religion or the indoctrination into Thai culture. It's no secret that Buddhism is a major part of Thai culture the religious aspect is a small part of the larger philosophy. Either way I can understand his plight. My parents tried to indoctrinate me into a Catholic Western culture that I rejected and came to Thailand. I've never seen any monks beat kids or abuse children I have seen children abused and beaten in the West by priests and nuns.

But I can understand the cultural traditions of the OP are now being questioned in Thailand. Rich people in Thailand send their kids to the West to be educated why would the OP not avail his children of that opportunity? I don't think one needs religion as a crutch. Just admit education is better in the West and act on that fact.

There are Thai monks that have abused kids but catholic priests still win this contest.

I do agree the OP does not like the thai culture if i had kids id have to accept that here they would get Buddhist education here its hard to avoided.

Funny to see that all religions offer a better place after dead a great way to keep the poor resigned in their faith. Its well thought out rational people see this. That is why they need to atart the brainwashing young. They would not date to let people make their own choices when they are an adult.

Religions often alao want you to convert others or to have many children. This is only to atrenghten the power of religious leaders.

Its so clear to those of us that have not been brainwashed.

[robblok]

I was six years old, and placed in a private catholic school for 8 years. This was hard corps, Franciscan. (Strict adherence to humility and poverty). We never were taught aggression. We were taught only to love and honor. We were not taught to fight other religions, but to tolerate them. In our church, we held hands and prayed for peace.

There was no training for war, no lessons on how to disarm and kill an aggressor, no kickboxing, not even fighting amongst ourselves was tolerated.

The only harm done....I was like a lamb in the Australian outback, when I left that school. Unprepared for the real world. The Marine Corps took away the sheep skin and underneath, there was ...something of a man left. I consider myself balanced...now.

Bottom line.....Religion never made me stupid and never made me a killer.

Believing in something that cant be proven hmmmm. I call that stupidity. Sorry to be blunt but if someone tells you he believes in the great spaghetti monster in the sky you call him a fool and ask for proof. Just because there are more of you that believe in this imaginary friend in the sky does not make it true.

As for denying religious violence please read the newspaper and study history. Inquisition anyone ?

[slipperylobster]

your point is taken. my point is... learn whatever you can about religion. it does not take away...it adds ... to awareness.

[slipperylobster]

and your is simple

the world is better off without religion. But that is like saying ...apples are better off without trees.

It just is not going to happen. good luck with it. I am an atheist..by the way.

I study religion because I need to know why.

You presumed I believed in the same God as in the Bible...right? lol

You were fighting a friend...I was fighting ignorance.

Edited November 16, 2014 by slipperylobster

[metisdead]

The topic is not about religious wars or atheism, posts and replies have been removed.

[NanLaew]

anyways...go on and discuss this for eternity...because it will obviously go nowhere.

Religion fighting religion.

Non-Religion fighting all religion.

I would wonder who the last man standing will be. A man who studies...or one who does not.

Religion is the topic. You cannot fight a shadow. You need to know the opponent.

Have a nice day. See you when there are only two left.

Last man standing is usually Chuck Norris.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I teach some here. I have the freedom in teaching to discuss anything.

I can think of at least one subject you can't discuss in class, unless you like Thai jail.

And you can't discuss it here either.

[jdinasia]

I teach some here. I have the freedom in teaching to discuss anything.

I can think of at least one subject you can't discuss in class, unless you like Thai jail.

And you can't discuss it here either.

You would be wrong about class.

[slipperylobster]

Tons of Buddhists in the world.

If my child were here, I would certainly be happy that he got a chance to learn, firsthand, what it is all about.

Perhaps, in the future, this knowledge will be a benefit. Especially if his mom/relatives were both Thai (and Buddhists)

Believer or not.

Edited November 16, 2014 by slipperylobster

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I teach some here. I have the freedom in teaching to discuss anything.

I can think of at least one subject you can't discuss in class, unless you like Thai jail.

And you can't discuss it here either.

You would be wrong about class.

I was talking legality, break the laws at your own risk, in this case 20 years in jail.

Let's hope none of them ever resent a grade you gave, or tell mom and dad about your discussions.

Edited November 16, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[jdinasia]

I teach some here. I have the freedom in teaching to discuss anything.

I can think of at least one subject you can't discuss in class, unless you like Thai jail.

And you can't discuss it here either.

You would be wrong about class.

I was talking legality, break the laws at your own risk, in this case 20 years in jail.

And again wrong.

[Thai at Heart]

This is interesting. My kids having come back to the UK are both undergoing a course called ethics and philosophy . they obviously haven't got to the Aristotle bit because the first year has been about faiths.

Which has ironically served only to highlight the differences in people to minds too young to notice it. So now. We have talk of Jews and Muslims when there was a certain naive bliss before about religion.

[jdinasia]

I teach some here. I have the freedom in teaching to discuss anything.

I can think of at least one subject you can't discuss in class, unless you like Thai jail.

And you can't discuss it here either.

You would be wrong about class.

I was talking legality, break the laws at your own risk, in this case 20 years in jail.

Let's hope none of them ever resent a grade you gave, or tell mom and dad about your discussions.

I see you added an edit. Still not an issue

[iancnx]

I am sorry but I really don't understand the OP problem. He moved to a Buddhist country and had a child and is now expressing surprise that she is being exposed to Buddhism

Move back to your home country and you won't have this problem

So if a Thai family moved to America , and they found out their child was

being indoctrinated into Christianity at school, you would advise them to

move back to Thailand ?? Nice one......

If a Thai family enrolled their daughter in a private school in the US then i would not be surprised if it had a Christian agenda. If they did not like that then I would suggest they locate another school with a compatible agenda. I would be quite surprised if they were shocked an american private school had a Christian influence.

I would also be surprised if they cam onto a forum and started criticizing the Christian religion since the US has always been considered founded in Christian principles and they would likely realize it is in rather poor taste to insult other peoples' religions.

Its unfortunate you are hoping to raise your child in your likeness. The last thing humanity needs is more intolerance of other peoples' religions.

Nope.....

http://www.alternet.org/story/155985/5_reasons_america_is_not_--_and_has_never_been_--_a_christian_nation

1. The Text of the Constitution Does Not Say the United States Is a Christian Nation

If a Christian nation had been the intent of the founders, they would have put that in the Constitution, front and center. Yet the text of the Constitution contains no references to God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity. That document does not state that our country is an officially Christian nation.

I always assumed the US was a Jewish nation, it's just the really really rich important guys haven't told the masses yet. That is why the constitution is seemingly so vague.

[iancnx]

Tons of Buddhists in the world.

If my child were here, I would certainly be happy that he got a chance to learn, firsthand, what it is all about.

Perhaps, in the future, this knowledge will be a benefit. Especially if his mom/relatives were both Thai (and Buddhists)

Believer or not.

Totally agree. From what the OP has shared I wonder if the four year old is benefitting from being excluded from the experience. She can make up her own mind later. As for no Santa..... That's really very sad.

[robblok]

Tons of Buddhists in the world.

If my child were here, I would certainly be happy that he got a chance to learn, firsthand, what it is all about.

Perhaps, in the future, this knowledge will be a benefit. Especially if his mom/relatives were both Thai (and Buddhists)

Believer or not.

Totally agree. From what the OP has shared I wonder if the four year old is benefitting from being excluded from the experience. She can make up her own mind later. As for no Santa..... That's really very sad.

Learning about or learning to be one is totally different. I have learned about religions but as a study not forced upon me as a belief system. I doubt this is how it is done on Thai schools. I know Christian schools also teach it as if its the truth and teach you to be a good follower. Not to ask questions.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As for no Santa..... That's really very sad.

Off topic,

Reminded me of the old joke about the gang of dyslexic devil worshippers who sold their souls to Santa.