Buddhism_A Serious Discussion

[VincentRJ]

Can practice mindfulness/ observation of the breath even with a busy life. Many meditation master monks who have great insight and ability are also quite busy disseminating the dharma, meeting people and supporting meritous projects.

What holds people back in "normal" life is the idea that can only be mindful at a special "peaceful time" ; when really ever time can be a peaceful time in ones mind by applying the mindfulness practice at all times busy busy busy same % to practice. 80-90- aim for 100%

Its help with everything. Not hinder.

Takes a bit of practice but after not too long it will become second nature and make life so much easier and enjoyable no matter what we must be doing.

It's a nice idea, but scientific research indicates that only a small percentage of the population (maybe 2%) are able to efficiently multitask.

The master monks you refer to might be a part of this 2%, and/or they might have spent a few years meditating in a forest hut or peaceful monastery prior to their busy life meeting people and disseminating the dharma.

However, that is not to say one shouldn't do one's best to be mindful, whatever the circumstances. Practice should always improve matters, but practice may not always make perfect.

[mccw]

2% maybe. Multi tasking and mindfulness is quite different though.

But any how, for the sake of debate, how does any one know they are part of the 2% or not unless they try, whole heatedly and diligently?

Maybe the 2 % are just those that actually seriously applied themselves and the rest gave up because of their own mental conditioning of "can't" or other doubts of personal ability- which are not helped at all by writing people or oneself off before even got going.

[mccw]

I know the analogy of the lotus. 4 stages etc.

But all can try and benefit from such a practice. I really think almost all people could do it if they really set their minds to it. Just the results of opening out to enlightened levels would be different depending on the person. Some just a more relaxed and happy life but little insight or understanding, this is the muddy stage I think, while others would develop further with different degrees of insights etc; like the lotus analogy.

I don't think it's mean most people can not decent practice at all.

They say every human is blessed to be born as such because they have the chance to develop mindfulness practice also.

[mccw]

I think the mindfulness practice is a way for humans to break themselves out of these "scientific" averages.

I dare say a person out side the 2% when tested could practice training in mindfulness and multi tasking and then be retested and found to be capable of doing so.

It's akin to stating that because 98% of Europe could not read in the Middle Ages it would mean it equals people are limited to not reading for ever. Clearly it's not the case.

Humans can advance with training.

[VincentRJ]

2% maybe. Multi tasking and mindfulness is quite different though.

I agree it's differrent if there are no other tasks competing with one's attention. But then of course that's simply not multitasking. All multitasking is different in accordance with the the different nature of the tasks being attempted. I'd say that multitasking, when one of the tasks is the act of meditation, is probably the most difficult situation of all. At least one of the tasks is likely to be performed very poorly.

For example, as I write this I cannot simultaneously pay attention to a broadcast on TV at precisely the same time as I write, but I can switch my attention back and forth, interrupting my writing every few seconds to follow the TV program, then back to the writing.

At the end of both the TV program and my writing task, I might have a fair idea of what the TV program was about, although I will probably have missed a few details, perhaps even important details. My writing might be 'okay', but probably not as good, or as correct and as well-expressed as it might have been if I hadn't also tried to follow what was being broadcast on TV as I was writing.

Now, imagine the situation of a person with a busy schedule who has been give the task, by his boss at work, to watch a particular TV program in the evening, which happens to be particularly relevant to a report that is currently being prepared at the office. The TV program coincides with the period in the evening that the employee usually sets aside for quiet meditation. However, on this occasion, because of a prearranged dinner schedule and meetings etc, he is unable to find the time to meditate, so attempts to do his regular meditation practice while watching the TV program.

Do you think this is sensible? I don't. The result will almost certainly be that the meditation will serve little purpose and the employee's understanding of the TV program will be found to be very lacking when his boss asks for his input the next day. He might even get the sack.

The point I'm making is that generally one should give one's full attention to whatever task is being performed, in order to achieve the best results.

But any how, for the sake of debate, how does any one know they are part of the 2% or not unless they try, whole heatedly and diligently? Maybe the 2 % are just those that actually seriously applied themselves and the rest gave up because of their own mental conditioning of "can't" or other doubts of personal ability- which are not helped at all by writing people or oneself off before even got going.

We're all different to some degree with regard to our innate talents and capabilities which are genetically based. The great Socrates, who might even have been a contemporary of Gautama Buddha who's actual birthdate is not certain, gave the very sound advice, "Know thyself".

[mccw]

Hi

I am not talking about the "quiet meditation time" - sitting practice or whatever at the same time as another task.

I am talking about maintaining awareness of the breath at all times. It's not like watching TV and writing at the same time- these use intellect to pay attention. Awareness of the breath is simply awareness- no intellect; awareness is the point before all other (things, senses, thinking, emotion, etc) come in to ones awareness.

Awareness being clear and void/ empty- this is the "non-self". So unless Socrates was talking about a non self like Buddha then I wouldn't pay too much attention to "know thy self" because knowing self would be to realise there is no fixed self at all.

Back to the "multitasking" point though. Awareness being the mental point before the task at hand means really the doing of any task with awareness is not multi tasking but rather being more aware while doing it. It's like a magnifying glass and should actually make one better at the task not worse. With higher awareness one can see more detail and think more clearly- see through to the future likely effects of what one is doing at the present and act, say writing the report, in the present moment free of stress or pressure or any other emotions and so should actually do a better job - maybe quicken his road to promotion

[trd]

Isn't 'want' another word for desire? Isn't there a paradox here? I've always been a bit suspicious of expressions of desires and yearnings to achieve a state of Nirvana or bliss. Could it be that the desire itself, to achieve such states of mind, is an obstacle?

To have a desire to achieve nirvana is to want something without knowing what it truly is. Prior to achieving it, I must have some idea of what the goal is, and it must be desirable enough to motivate me to strive for it even though the achieving of it may not be what I imagined. All desire happens for one reason only. All human beings, as well as other creatures, are continually striving for happiness and/or the avoidance of pain or discomfort. There is no one on this earth who would avoid taking steps, given the opportunity, to increase their own personal happiness. It is universal.

The basis of Buddha's teachings regarding desire is that identification with and attachment to desires and the fruits of desire causes suffering. So the obstacle of having a desire for nirvana is that the goal may be seen as just another object rather than the complete surrender of all objects which includes the mind as the experiencer of objects. So although it may appear as a paradox, the desire for happiness is required to facilitate a shift from object orientated happiness to the knowledge that the unconditioned state is true happiness itself and is independent of objects.

[trd]

There is no such thing as multitasking. Thoughts appear in the mind sequentially. It is just the switching back and forth from one thought to another quickly which makes it appear you are doing two things at the same time.

Edited December 2, 2014 by trd

[VincentRJ]

Hi

I am not talking about the "quiet meditation time" - sitting practice or whatever at the same time as another task.

I am talking about maintaining awareness of the breath at all times. It's not like watching TV and writing at the same time- these use intellect to pay attention. Awareness of the breath is simply awareness- no intellect; awareness is the point before all other (things, senses, thinking, emotion, etc) come in to ones awareness.

Awareness being clear and void/ empty- this is the "non-self". So unless Socrates was talking about a non self like Buddha then I wouldn't pay too much attention to "know thy self" because knowing self would be to realise there is no fixed self at all.

Back to the "multitasking" point though. Awareness being the mental point before the task at hand means really the doing of any task with awareness is not multi tasking but rather being more aware while doing it. It's like a magnifying glass and should actually make one better at the task not worse. With higher awareness one can see more detail and think more clearly- see through to the future likely effects of what one is doing at the present and act, say writing the report, in the present moment free of stress or pressure or any other emotions and so should actually do a better job - maybe quicken his road to promotion

And I'm making the point that this is not possible for the average person who has multiple tasks to perform throughout the day.

There are certain routine activities, such as walking along a clear path, folding the laundry, washing the dishes, sitting on the toilet, and so on, which need not interfere with one's attempt to be aware of one's breath. However, many of the activities of a modern, intelligent person throught the day, require some degree of intellectual attention.

To repeat a previous analogy, try walking along a dangerous, slippery path with disguised potholes, whilst simultaneously maintaining awareness of one's breath. I would prefer to direct my awareness to each step that I carefully take. However, I would agree that directing one's attention to each step could be described as 'mindfulness'. But not mindfulness on the breath.

The point I'm trying to get across here, is that mindfulness in relation to whatever task one is performing, is recommended. But mindfulness on the breath whilst simultaneously trying to perform some other task which is not routine, is not recommended.

[trd]

I am talking about maintaining awareness of the breath at all times.

I'm sorry mccw, but this is just plain bad advice.

[mccw]

The treacherous becomes become more easy.

With awareness of the breath all in puts of sense etc are slowed through the breathing cycle; can move like slow motion ; super aware and super careful to most high degree you didn't think possible. Not only careful but will see detail in the rocks and earth, the bugs crawling by and pollen on the air, feeling the breeze on face and maybe even notice the heart rate, blood pumping around the body, all skin and organs, feel the breeds of sweat roiling down the back, all at once, with out being disturbed by it, but simple aware of it through the breath cycle.

First the breath cycle ; then the awareness expands and keeps on expanding, to be aware of many things, to see through the human condition and the world; can see other plains of existence even.

Most people are not born with such a high state of awareness; it takes training; awareness of the breath at all times is like the first few steps on the path, the stabilisers on ones first bike perhaps. It's developing the base, the foundation, strong clear centre from which mind can expanding and return to safely.

I suggest you practice diligently and see where it can take you; not close your mind to your own potential.

Hi

I am not talking about the "quiet meditation time" - sitting practice or whatever at the same time as another task.

I am talking about maintaining awareness of the breath at all times. It's not like watching TV and writing at the same time- these use intellect to pay attention. Awareness of the breath is simply awareness- no intellect; awareness is the point before all other (things, senses, thinking, emotion, etc) come in to ones awareness.

Awareness being clear and void/ empty- this is the "non-self". So unless Socrates was talking about a non self like Buddha then I wouldn't pay too much attention to "know thy self" because knowing self would be to realise there is no fixed self at all.

Back to the "multitasking" point though. Awareness being the mental point before the task at hand means really the doing of any task with awareness is not multi tasking but rather being more aware while doing it. It's like a magnifying glass and should actually make one better at the task not worse. With higher awareness one can see more detail and think more clearly- see through to the future likely effects of what one is doing at the present and act, say writing the report, in the present moment free of stress or pressure or any other emotions and so should actually do a better job - maybe quicken his road to promotion

And I'm making the point that this is not possible for the average person who has multiple tasks to perform throughout the day.

There are certain routine activities, such as walking along a clear path, folding the laundry, washing the dishes, sitting on the toilet, and so on, which need not interfere with one's attempt to be aware of one's breath. However, many of the activities of a modern, intelligent person throught the day, require some degree of intellectual attention.

To repeat a previous analogy, try walking along a dangerous, slippery path with disguised potholes, whilst simultaneously maintaining awareness of one's breath. I would prefer to direct my awareness to each step that I carefully take. However, I would agree that directing one's attention to each step could be described as 'mindfulness'. But not mindfulness on the breath.

The point I'm trying to get across here, is that mindfulness in relation to whatever task one is performing, is recommended. But mindfulness on the breath whilst simultaneously trying to perform some other task which is not routine, is not recommended.

[mccw]

There is no such thing as multitasking. Thoughts appear in the mind sequentially. It is just the switching back and forth from one thought to another quickly which makes it appear you are doing two things at the same time.

Or actually ones awareness might see many things at the same. Like a picture comes to the eye at once, not in parts.

[mccw]

I am talking about maintaining awareness of the breath at all times.

I'm sorry mccw, but this is just plain bad advice.

Based on what? Have you tried it?

My personal experience is that it's has done wonders for. I can catch the mental phenomena and dissipate my attachment to them consciously. I no long suffer physical pains I did before, I can keep cool and not loose to anger, I am not stressed or worried about biz- rather I can see everything more clearly and everything is much the better for it. My whole life has improved. Also my insight meditation has raised through to new levels.

This is from the teaching of the Master monk. Not my imagination. I am aim to share this method so it can be of use to other people.

I think maybe you have filled your proverbial cup toooo much full , there is no space for new tea, and it's limited your intake of such a simple method. You are hunting for answers in books and debate instead of direct practice of an expanded awareness.

I suggest you put the books aside, stop intellectualising everything and just try to live with higher awareness; then all the answers will come by nature , and you will know by direct experience - mind , heart, body and soul, realisation , insight, not intellect.

Chock dee

[trd]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about mindfulness. What is the purpose of putting the attention on breath? Or on a mantra. Or on the simple process of walking. If you keep the attention rigidly and unshakeably on breath you will achieve nothing. The whole point of mindfulness is to put the attention on one thing and allow the natural tendency of the mind to gradually let go of the object of attention as it experiences finer and finer levels of thinking until it becomes still or relatively still with fewer thoughts rising up. It is best practised sitting, but it can also be practised while engaged in activity of the type that is inconsequential.

To try and maintain this practice while doing something which requires a lot of mental or physical attention is not productive. You will do neither task well. But if it is done, while not particularly engaged in anything critical and in shorter periods, this is most beneficial. For to do it properly, one has to become attentive to just awareness and when that happens world momentarily disappears. You do not want the world to disappear while you are driving!

This oscillation between silence and activity is the correct approach. The mind and nervous system become gradually purified as it becomes more and more clear that pure awareness is the only reality. The unconditioned state is when both silence and activity forever coexist without effort or intent. This is peace of mind.

[mccw]

Tdr

On you point of "wanting" to achieve enlightenment.

In my experience of seeing / forming the light in first step meditation.

And then when finding the point in the 3 part breath cycle where the phenomena leaves ones attention. I found that "wanting" or "trying" too much do it was actually a hinderance, when I stopped trying too hard and simply relaxed and maintained focus through the breath cycle then the awareness softly expanded to discover / see these things on it's own. The wanting or trying hard, make the mind strong and close, the no trying but seeing with relaxed and soft mind allows the expansion to take place naturally.

Hope this helps.

[trd]

Tdr

On you point of "wanting" to achieve enlightenment.

In my experience of seeing / forming the light in first step meditation.

And then when finding the point in the 3 part breath cycle where the phenomena leaves ones attention. I found that "wanting" or "trying" too much do it was actually a hinderance, when I stopped trying too hard and simply relaxed and maintained focus through the breath cycle then the awareness softly expanded to discover / see these things on it's own. The wanting or trying hard, make the mind strong and close, the no trying but seeing with relaxed and soft mind allows the expansion to take place naturally.

Hope this helps.

Practice should never be done with effort. You are already that which you are. There is no path. Your true nature is revealed and realised when the mind is still. Edited December 2, 2014 by trd

[mccw]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about mindfulness. What is the purpose of putting the attention on breath? Or on a mantra. Or on the simple process of walking. If you keep the attention rigidly and unshakeably on breath you will achieve nothing. The whole point of mindfulness is to put the attention on one thing and allow the natural tendency of the mind to gradually let go of the object of attention as it experiences finer and finer levels of thinking until it becomes still or relatively still with fewer thoughts rising up. It is best practised sitting, but it can also be practised while engaged in activity of the type that is inconsequential.

To try and maintain this practice while doing something which requires a lot of mental or physical attention is not productive. You will do neither task well. But if it is done, while not particularly engaged in anything critical and in shorter periods, this is most beneficial. For to do it properly, one has to become attentive to just awareness and when that happens world momentarily disappears. You do not want the world to disappear while you are driving!

This oscillation between silence and activity is the correct approach. The mind and nervous system become gradually purified as it becomes more and more clear that pure awareness is the only reality. The unconditioned state is when both silence and activity forever coexist without effort or intent. This is peace of mind.

Your point and my point are very different.

I suggest this way I talk of so can improve every moment of ones life. To expand awareness to have some useful insights at all times. We are alive and operating day to day so I think this is really a very useful practice.

If can remove all attachments at all times then this is make the soul pure and more lasting than a fleeting glimpse.

Combined with time for focused sitting, walking , standing and lay down practice too when want / have time to do so.

[trd]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about mindfulness. What is the purpose of putting the attention on breath? Or on a mantra. Or on the simple process of walking. If you keep the attention rigidly and unshakeably on breath you will achieve nothing. The whole point of mindfulness is to put the attention on one thing and allow the natural tendency of the mind to gradually let go of the object of attention as it experiences finer and finer levels of thinking until it becomes still or relatively still with fewer thoughts rising up. It is best practised sitting, but it can also be practised while engaged in activity of the type that is inconsequential.

To try and maintain this practice while doing something which requires a lot of mental or physical attention is not productive. You will do neither task well. But if it is done, while not particularly engaged in anything critical and in shorter periods, this is most beneficial. For to do it properly, one has to become attentive to just awareness and when that happens world momentarily disappears. You do not want the world to disappear while you are driving!

This oscillation between silence and activity is the correct approach. The mind and nervous system become gradually purified as it becomes more and more clear that pure awareness is the only reality. The unconditioned state is when both silence and activity forever coexist without effort or intent. This is peace of mind.

Your point and my point are very different.

I suggest this way I talk of so can improve every moment of ones life. To expand awareness to have some useful insights at all times. We are alive and operating day to day so I think this is really a very useful practice.

If can remove all attachments at all times then this is make the soul pure and more lasting than a fleeting glimpse.

Combined with time for focused sitting, walking , standing and lay down practice too when want / have time to do so.

You are focussing your attention on objects, on phenomena. This is duality. You need to dispense with this and all concepts and go back to the source. It is the only way.

[trd]

There is nothing to improve in every moment of your life. Just be as you are in this moment without conditions. That is all.

[mccw]

I am alive and living in the day to day word of phenomena. All of us are. The practice of total awareness means that one can walk in the word and see all things as they are, phenomena, causes and conditions and maintain ones awareness in a clear undisturbed state with out attachment to them.

"Only way" - that's funny

[trd]

Of course there is phenomena as there is mind and body. This is always changing and is impermanent. But that is not who you are. Look for that which is unchanging. Do you want to try it?

[mccw]

There is nothing to improve in every moment of your life. Just be as you are in this moment without conditions. That is all.

Your not talking practically at all.

Most people suffer emotions, senses etc.

The practice I talk of is a way to be free of that suffering in the day to day.

[trd]

You have a notion about this person called you who does things to expand "your" awareness. You need to let that idea go. It is an illusion.

[mccw]

Of course there is phenomena as there is mind and body. This is always changing and is impermanent. But that is not who you are. (I KNOW THIS ALREADY THANKS)

Look for that which is unchanging.

"""""Do you want to try it?"""""

Not right now thanks- must be off out to bank. 55 you see?

[mccw]

You have a notion about this person called you who does things to expand "your" awareness. You need to let that idea go. It is an illusion.

No no

I'm just talking practically.

I have seen the true nature of non self . As well as other things. Please; I not be bothered right now to talk about every detail of existence. I have things to do today.

[VincentRJ]

There is no such thing as multitasking. Thoughts appear in the mind sequentially. It is just the switching back and forth from one thought to another quickly which makes it appear you are doing two things at the same time.

Now you are contributing to the confusion, Trd.

It's true that one cannot literally focus one's attention on two different tasks at the same precise moment of time. As you've noted, and as I mentioned in post #65, there is a switching back and forth that takes place and this switching between tasks of a different nature can introduce inefficiencies, so it is not recommended.

However, if one of the tasks is routine and easily performed, such as walking at a normal pace, then it's possible to accomplish another task during the period of the walk, such as composing a poem if one is a poet, or solving a mathematical problem if one is a mathematician, or listening to a program on the radio with earphones, or learning a foreign language from a recording on one's portable recorder, and so on. That's also a type of multitasking which can be quite efficient.

One can also safely talk whilst driving a car, if one is familiar with the route. If one isn't familiar with the route, one might miss a turn-off due to talking.

[rockyysdt]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about mindfulness. What is the purpose of putting the attention on breath? Or on a mantra. Or on the simple process of walking. If you keep the attention rigidly and unshakeably on breath you will achieve nothing. The whole point of mindfulness is to put the attention on one thing and allow the natural tendency of the mind to gradually let go of the object of attention as it experiences finer and finer levels of thinking until it becomes still or relatively still with fewer thoughts rising up. It is best practised sitting, but it can also be practised while engaged in activity of the type that is inconsequential.

To try and maintain this practice while doing something which requires a lot of mental or physical attention is not productive. You will do neither task well. But if it is done, while not particularly engaged in anything critical and in shorter periods, this is most beneficial. For to do it properly, one has to become attentive to just awareness and when that happens world momentarily disappears. You do not want the world to disappear while you are driving!

This oscillation between silence and activity is the correct approach. The mind and nervous system become gradually purified as it becomes more and more clear that pure awareness is the only reality. The unconditioned state is when both silence and activity forever coexist without effort or intent. This is peace of mind.

Hi TRD.

I'm trying to learn from what you teach.

In terms of attention on breath and mindfulness you have left me confused.

I need to discuss this further in order to comprehend your teaching and the teaching I and some others have already adopted.

In the eightfold path, under Concentration, the Buddha taught "right effort", "right mindfulness" & "right concentration".

Right Concentration covers things such as meditation or sitting.

Right Mindfulness covers what MCCW practices.

You mentioned by doing this there is duality.

I/We/You observe I/We/You without attachment.

You've now created another I,We/You which assumes the role of observer.

Comment:

Although there is duality, observing the breath whilst unawakened has many benefits.

The breath acts as an anchor or base from which to develop mindfulness (of mind, of feelings, of body, & of the external world and ones relationship with it).

Living in a busy world, this allows the development of concentration whilst going about ones daily life.

It allows one to stop a chain of thoughts/feelings and possibly negative action as a consequence.

It also allows one to limit resultant negative feelings as well as tension in the body.

It allows one to work on reducing negative actions/negative kharma and is a practical way of complying with the 5 precepts.

It also facilitates Concentration (Sitting/Meditation).

Rather than abandon it due to its duality isn't the answer that it serves its purpose up until personal experience and insights are gained, and then it and its accompanying duality is abandoned.

It is the canoe which helps us across the river and is eventually discarded.

This is what has been written about Mindfulness:

Right mindfulness (samyak-smṛti / sammā-sati), also translated as "right memory", "right awareness" or "right attention". Here, practitioners should constantly keep their minds alert to phenomena that affect the body and mind. They should be mindful and deliberate, making sure not to act or speak due to inattention or forgetfulness. In the Pali Canon, it is explained thus:

And what, monks, is right mindfulness?

(i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in and of itself—ardent, aware, and mindful—putting away greed and distress with reference to the world.

(ii) He remains focused on feelings in and of themselves—ardent, aware, and mindful—putting away greed and distress with reference to the world.

(iii) He remains focused on the mind in and of itself—ardent, aware, and mindful—putting away greed and distress with reference to the world.

(iv) He remains focused on mental qualities (dhammesu) in and of themselves—ardent, aware, and mindful—putting away greed and distress with reference to the world.

This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

Bikkhu Bodi, a monk of the Theravada tradition, further explains the concept of mindfulness as follows:

The Maha Satipatthana Sutta also teaches that by mindfully observing these phenomena, we begin to discern its arising and subsiding and the Three Characteristics of Dharma in direct experience, which leads to the arising of insight and the qualities of dispassion, non-clinging, and release.

The mind is deliberately kept at the level of bare attention, a detached observation of what is happening within us and around us in the present moment. In the practice of right mindfulness the mind is trained to remain in the present, open, quiet, and alert, contemplating the present event. All judgments and interpretations have to be suspended, or if they occur, just registered and dropped.

How does this fit in with your thoughts on Mindfulness?

Edited December 3, 2014 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

There is nothing to improve in every moment of your life. Just be as you are in this moment without conditions. That is all.

If you are speaking of that which is the absolute then we are agreed.

In terms of the relative (conditioned and impermanent) why would you limit yourself by acting out who you are?

I personally am endowed with a myriad of personality flaws which not only cause pain to myself but I'm sure cause pain in the lives of those I come in contact with.

As well as practicing to become awakened, whilst living as conditioned and impermanent entities, shouldn't we strive to better ourselves (improve) and the world we find ourselves in?

[trd]

Rocky, please give me time to craft a considered reply deserving of your questions.

[mccw]

Just a quick comment on duality:

There is no duality

all is one.

That doesn't mean pointing at the void or the place after "the world disappear " and say that state is the true reality; by doing that you are actually creating duality in your mind - because clearly we are here right now, experiencing the world around us.

The insight I gain from such states is that there are indeed other states existing too. And- It means that this and that are certainly states existing; and there are many others too one can see through insight practice - mostly in flux and impermanent; and all are part of the "One" the system.

No duality ; all is one- and the position all things and of the observer in side the one is subject to laws like karma; and dependent on individuals states of mind.

Thought , action, effect. Pushing motion forward.

Impermanent nature of all this is translate to mean nothing; but it doesn't mean literally nothing; it means nothing fixed - nothing permanent in my view and experience.

So

By releasing our attachments to the phenomena day to day / circle system we are in now, plus practice walking, sitting, lay down too. It is a way to release ourselves to be see and actually BE across wider areas of the system. Like expanding ones consciousness / soul outside of the circle and some times space time ; and eventually being completely at one with the "One" would be the ultimate point I think, - a state of total enlightenment. When can view all the everything and nothing parts with out attachment to any of it. No longer on circle.

(Not looking to debate this and I keep it short and simple; this is my view from my insights so far)

Also : I have read that it's been described some places as "both neither existing and not existing"

Or as an "illusion" - which might be what's confusing tdr (maybe this description is because of how the realities are working like different vibrational densities or frequencies, or light spectrum.)

I think it's best not to get stuck intellectualising these things; try not to have an experience / a state of mind and then use intellect linking it to what one has read and making conclusions from blending the two together ; because All words are severely limited!

Where as experience of expanded awareness is a pure state before the intellect, thinking or language; these things then break down and try to explain what is beyond them. Further - translations of text and the subjective minds of each reader changes and imbues meanings upon the words. Like illusion for example; which could be meant or taken in many different ways.

The best is to simple practice and see for ones self ; observation - direct experience of the soul/ consciousness free from thinking, intellect, emotion and all other things.

Purifying day to day actions. How many lives and good Karma did the Buddha need to purify to reach a point where he could free himself? He never denied the system of life and karma.

All is one