Why Does A Successful Intelligent Farang Marry A Bar Girl

[King Dong]

40 years my junior.

I called up a couple of my ilk this morning to discuss what dark path we were going to take tonight. It was a toss up between MBK or watch Cricket re runs.

Your a 60+ white guy right, and u reckon u can walk into MBK with 500 baht have your pick from 100's and leave with a 20 something uni girl for sex...

I've heard some sh1t in my time, u kinda given the game away there old man

[Mossfinn]

I think we need Erco or Smeg to weigh in on this subject.

What do you think brit?

Oh no, not Erco again and Smeg this time! ghosts of Christmas past and present who is the ghost of Christmas future.

Moss

[Donz]

Im sure the figure is not greater then 10% of the students being pro's.

50% is something someone who never been to thailand would say

[kerryk]

40 years my junior.

I called up a couple of my ilk this morning to discuss what dark path we were going to take tonight. It was a toss up between MBK or watch Cricket re runs.

Your a 60+ white guy right, and u reckon u can walk into MBK with 500 baht have your pick from 100's and leave with a 20 something uni girl for sex...

I've heard some sh1t in my time, u kinda given the game away there old man

I honestly don’t know. Plus I am not the one who suggested MBK in the first place. I would be hesitant to get involved with anyone that young. Nor would I feel comfortable propositioning a young woman in a public place such as MBK. I think that is better left to young Farangs who most Thai people would write off as football hooligans or some other youthful playboy types.

All the university students I have met have been in college where I was also a student or they have sought me out (normally to borrow money) or in part time jobs they held in night clubs, disco, or restaurants.

I have a couple of older male Thai friends who support uni students and they have volunteered to introduce me to friends of those students who are looking for a similar arrangement but I responded in the negative.

If I were to become involved with a uni student she would have to be over 20 and I would first approach her parents seeking their consent. I realize this is old fashioned but it is the only way I would be anything but a friend.

However I did not come to Thailand looking for 20 year old women. I had my mid life crisis in the States complete with cowboy boots, corvette and young stripper and I got the tee shirt. Being with a 20 year old US stripper for a man my age is fun for about 2 hours a day the other waking hours are like some sad soap opera. It is mandatory they have some kind of obnoxious little dog and new piercing in unusual places and grotesque tattoos that mar their perfect bodies. US Dancers also come equipped with dysfunctional parents, dysfunctional siblings and at least two deadbeat close friends. The music they like must be played at earsplitting levels at home and they all think they are latent lesbians. They all have had past life experiences, new wave eating habits and when they are not purging or binging they are taking some evil medication to cause diarrhea while they snack on inedible guru food. There has to be candles and incense in the house burning at all times and at least a thousand skin care remedies that prevent butt pimples. Not one of them is ever satisfied with their bodies and they think going to college means beauty school. To contrast them with Thai dancers would be like watching One Flew over the Cuckoo’s back to back with Bambi.

But, in general I think it is a mistake to write off the old guys as unacceptable companions for younger women. There is a lot to be said for grown up behavior and sophistication.

Some young Thai women appreciate good conversation like, “Have you ever been to Disneyland HK?” so I have heard.

[kerryk]

The denial on this thread and frankly in many other places on this forum is startling.Why can't it be accepted that there are major and sometimes crippling issues to deal with when marrying a prostitute? Whether Thai or not is probably not very relevant except for the additional burden of cultural misunderstanding.I'm not condemning and in fact I understand some of the reasons very well, particularly for those coming from a sexually repressive English background.

Incidentally am I alone in thinking that posters who constantly use the word "<deleted>" rarely have anything interesting to say?

University students in Thailand from 10 to 50% supplement their funds in the same way. That is not true in the West.

Absolute nonsense!! What are you basing your figures on? 10-50% of Thai university students are prostitutes - really! Is this what 'your lady' told you? and how many university students does she know in Thailand exactly to base this on?

I totally agree 100% with Kerry on this, and I would say its closer to the 50% mark, if not much higher ! A prostitute is not a girl that works in a bar, its a girl who sleeps with a guy for money, and trust me students are the number 1 for it !!

I never believed this until I seen it with my own eyes and how easy it was, a good friend of mine showed me and I couldnt believe it ! 1st time was in MBK Bangkok, for anyone who knows it theres a floor which has about 200+ shops selling mobile phones. On a weekend at its peak there are 500+ girls working there who are mostly students working for extra money. If you go to the stall and simply say "Ha Roy baht" (do not say 500 baht) MOST of them will go with you, if the person you ask says no her mate will ! Ridiculous you may say but im telling you, its true ! I did it myself.

Just in case it was just sheer pot luck (of course I didnt go asking the whole floor to confirm it) I asked a Thai friend of mine who is a well clued up business man in Bangkok and he clarified it was true, he actually laughed at me for my lack of basic common knowledge !

It is not just MBK, I have seen it everywhere in all the usual hangouts for students, Bangkok Uni, student discos where theres not a farang in site.... Prince of Songkla University in Phuket is another, bursting with students all available for a bit of extra money ! Rajabhat University in Udon Thani is the one that my mate ranks number 1 in Thailand for cheap sex, hes there now.

Now of course if you asked your TGF if this was true what is she going to say ? Is she going to say "Yes darling, any you want for 500 baht" or is she going to tell you its a load of rubbish ? Of course shes going to tell you its not true, if they didnt there would be farangs running around MBK and all the university hang outs looking for sex !!

You guys just dont know how much prostitution there is out there, you all think it circulates around the obvious places like girlie bars, you are so wrong !

Now our friend terry57 knows what im onabout dont you mate ?

I just asked my Thai girlfriend; she is a graduate of Mahanakorn University, Bangkok.

She said that yes, some girls did prostitute themselves, but they appeared to be very selective as to whom they made themselves available.

Typically, she said, they would target older Thai businessmen or those in positions of authority perceived to be well off.

When I asked her if they would go with farang, she was insistent that from what she had seen, they most certainly would not.

She actually looked incredulous as if to say: “what a ridiculous question!”

She also said that it was looked upon more in the ‘mia noi’ light, rather than hard core prostitution, although the practice was generally frowned upon.

She could not give me any idea of a percentage, restricting her answer to: “only some”, as she wryly scoffed at the figure of 50%.

She then went on to say that there were two distinct groups who would sell themselves.

Firstly, those struggling on a tight budget to pay for their course fees; secondly, those who were adequately funded but wanted to buy genuine designer label clothes and trappings, the latest mobile phones etc.

The above is hardly a representative sample for research purposes, and of course it could well be the case that behaviours differ between universities.

However, I found her almost indignant reaction to the notion of such girls going with farang interesting.

It was as if she was implying they would not stoop so low.

I let it go at that, as I could foresee one of those 'I can criticise Thai people if I want to, but you cannot!' exchanges coming...

I would agree with your girlfriend. I think I mentioned in one of my other posts that some schools had a reputation for that sort of behavior and as a result of that drew students of that type. I would think that the vast majority of Universities do not have that reputation and the figure is between 1 and 5%.

I think it is also very interesting that your girlfriend reacted with horror at a uni student going out with a Farang. I would also agree with that statement. And I would take it a little further to say that if a Thai student did go with a Farang she would not be likely to tell her friends.

I have noticed that when a student gets a part time job in a club they change their circle of friends to only include those girls that work in the club.

I assume you are a Farang. Does it bother you knowing your GF has such a low opinion of Farang? Does it effect your relationship?

[Lacoste]

People are people all over the globe. Can I ask a simple question? Why do you guys suddenly decide that a simple, uneducated, Asian girl will do... as a marriage partner... as opposed to ANY woman on the planet? Basic question... geograhically challenged I know!@.....

I would say that, in combination with the answer in my previous post, the reason would be convenience.

An hour’s walk around a place like Pattaya will give most men hundreds of easy opportunities to direct contact with a female of his choice. There are bars everywhere and the girls are eager and willing to talk to anyone.

You walk around for an hour in many places of Europe, especially in the winter, all you are going to see is an old man walking his dog. To find a girl outside Asia takes a lot of effort and time .

I guess it's the same as food then, Easy to just run out and get a cheap burger but a bit more effort to go get the full steak dinner. Thats why McDonalds is so popular eventhough most people agree that there product is substandard.

Personaly i would rather make the effort but everyone to there own.

[kerryk]

Im sure the figure is not greater then 10% of the students being pro's.

50% is something someone who never been to thailand would say

Well Donz you are up to 10%. That’s way more than me and I live in Thailand and have been to college in Thailand. I would think the top was 5% max for the total university student population.

Although I would add the caveat that in some universities it can rise as high as 50% and in others it might be non existent.

[kat]

Uhm, let's see Donz: I've lived here for 4 years, and I am not married or dating a Thai so I have no ulterior motive either way, my friend who quoted the survey IS a Thai woman, educated, and formerly a researcher for the U.N. on gender issues in Thailand, quoting a Thai study at the time ...... hmm - do YOU live in Thailand, Donz?

Typically, she said, they would target older Thai businessmen or those in positions of authority perceived to be well off.

When I asked her if they would go with farang, she was insistent that from what she had seen, they most certainly would not.

She actually looked incredulous as if to say: “what a ridiculous question!”

She also said that it was looked upon more in the ‘mia noi’ light, rather than hard core prostitution, although the practice was generally frowned upon.

She could not give me any idea of a percentage, restricting her answer to: “only some”, as she wryly scoffed at the figure of 50%.

Yes, your girlfriend's explanation of the type or composition of sexual trade occuring at universities is more in line with how it would occur there.

A lot higher than many people would believe!

I'd say 5% of female students actually have sex for money.

In terms of the numbers, let me say one last thing before the barrage of flames arrive that I'm sure are on their way:

First of all, the 50 percent figure I discussed was referring to university students, both MALE and FEMALE. Secondly, the terms of definitions most likely included multiple parameters that are culturally specific, rather than specific to the foreign commercial sex industry. That means it was referring to the trade of sexual favors for some type of remuneration among university students.

There are more than a few ways this can occur outside of the commercial sex sphere: exclusive Thai clubs, exclusive concubinage arrangements with older and/or wealthy Thai men, sexual favors/trades within the university population, as well as old-fashioned freelance work. The figures gave a ratio of 20-50 percent, and I believe it is probably somewhere in the middle when you include both female and male students.

Now, if you want to believe that the figures are lower, given all of these other hidden factors and combinations - including gender - in light of reliable figures from credible sources such as the ILO that every indicator points to an expansion of commercial sex work as an established employment sector, well then, up to you. Go ahead and run with the 1994 police statistic of 200,000, because it's there for exactly that purpose.

If you want to DISCUSS or THINK about how the TERMS of definition for prostitution differ among cultures, then that is a very viable and inexhaustible topic. If you want to brawl over a matter of statistics in a country that still does not accurately store birth data, then I cannot think of a bigger waste of time. Thailand is by all international accounts one of - if not the biggest - sex markets in the world. It is also one of the oldest international markets, with an even older Thai and Chinese tradition of concubinage and conventional prostitution. Naturally, the numbers here are going to contrast significantly with most comparisons elsewhere. This is quite logical, so I can only deduce that most of the outcry here is related to denial or cluelessness.

[kerryk]

People are people all over the globe. Can I ask a simple question? Why do you guys suddenly decide that a simple, uneducated, Asian girl will do... as a marriage partner... as opposed to ANY woman on the planet? Basic question... geograhically challenged I know!@.....

I would say that, in combination with the answer in my previous post, the reason would be convenience.

An hour’s walk around a place like Pattaya will give most men hundreds of easy opportunities to direct contact with a female of his choice. There are bars everywhere and the girls are eager and willing to talk to anyone.

You walk around for an hour in many places of Europe, especially in the winter, all you are going to see is an old man walking his dog. To find a girl outside Asia takes a lot of effort and time .

I guess it's the same as food then, Easy to just run out and get a cheap burger but a bit more effort to go get the full steak dinner. Thats why McDonalds is so popular eventhough most people agree that there product is substandard.

Personaly i would rather make the effort but everyone to there own.

I don’t know if you know much about cooking but it takes a long time create a French meal, or beef roast or Peking duck.

However I have never seen a common Thai meal take more than a few minutes to cook. And they use very inexpensive ingredients to put together something very tasty.

If you wander in any Thai market you will discover Thai’s will eat things that a Westerner would never imagine eating.

[t.s]

Well i married a bar girl and i did so because i'm obviously sad and desperate.

What is this bullshit stigma attached to "bargirls"?

hahahahahahah!!!!!!! rotfl.

what "stigma" indeed?

[Stephen Cleary]

Kat Quote

And, I am supposed to waste my time looking for links for you, am I? Here's a clue: first of all, READ and DISCUSS what people say,

Since you have stated that '20-50%' of Thai Uni. students 'sell sexual services' - were acquired from a Chula. Uni educated women in response to a study conducted a while ago - it is only right, for persons and former students, to ask for the source of such study.

You have defended yourself by asking me to READ and DISCUSS what people say!

Kat proudly goes on that she has lived in Thailand for an amazing FOUR years, that my friend, is just a small amount of time in comparison to some others. I have been here a lot lot longer....but it doesn't give me the right to start preaching lies to other foreigners who don't live here.

There you have it, such statistics are the results of too much imagination after READING and DISCUSSING too many Farang bar-girl threads in 4 years in LOS. BTW: Why be so suddenly afraid that Thai Uni. students hear of such statistics? Is not not fair that they too hear of 20-50% of Thai students prostituting themselves?

Edited August 6, 2006 by stevesuphan

[icecubes]

kat, Most Falang on this forum don't live in Thailand.

BTW i do.

No dig at you.

Last ever post from me.

Please don't all clap from your homes in the UK and USA at the same time.

Good bye..

[kat]

Im sure the figure is not greater then 10% of the students being pro's.

50% is something someone who never been to thailand would say

Well Donz you are up to 10%. That’s way more than me and I live in Thailand and have been to college in Thailand. I would think the top was 5% max for the total university student population.

Although I would add the caveat that in some universities it can rise as high as 50% and in others it might be non existent.

Yes, I think there is naturally going to be a preponderance of sexual trade at more unis than others, just given the opportunities or specific cultre of certain universities over others.

Another parameter that was not discussed here but most likely very significant are the number of international "students" plying the trade elsewhere. The numbers of transnational prostitution are growing rapidly and student visas are one definite avenue apart from marriage visas.

[jdinasia]

what would the margin of error be in a study that says 20-50%? ....

say ... maybe .... +/- 30%?

[mittheimp]

Im sure the figure is not greater then 10% of the students being pro's.

50% is something someone who never been to thailand would say

Well Donz you are up to 10%. That’s way more than me and I live in Thailand and have been to college in Thailand. I would think the top was 5% max for the total university student population.

Although I would add the caveat that in some universities it can rise as high as 50% and in others it might be non existent.

Can I suggest Kerryk that you are a little bit clearer with your actual meaning when you present your magic stats in future posts -

for example you originally say -

University students in Thailand from 10 to 50% supplement their funds in the same way. That is not true in the West.

This to me gives the impression that Thai student prostitution is somewhere between 10-50%!!

Then you clarify it by saying -

Sorry I should have been more specific. There are universities in Thailand that 10% of the students are available and some that 50% are available.

I am basing my estimates on professors from the universities that I have spoken with and students.

Most of the students can tell you which schools are which because they attract like students.

Ask a few from different universities and you will get the same information.

This to me reads pretty much the same - 10% minimum - 50% max - which you suggest will be supported by any research of our own!

comparing these two comments with your last assertion that I would think the top was 5% max for the total university student population. you have done one of three things 1) a big big back track 2) a deliberate wind-up 3) failed to proof read what you have posted to make sure it supports what you actually think!!

can i suggest you do check the actual meaning of future posts does support your opinion - as this may save a lot of time and effort of other TV members who enjoy pointing out the many inaccuracies and contradictions you produce!!

[Donz]

well I said not more then 10%, the figure is probaly alot less.

No i dont live in Thailand Kat, but i know many Thai uni students including my fiancee (former uni student)

[t.s]

"Virginity is still high on the list of values in Thai society. It is not like the West. A man can expect a good girl to be a virgin even at 30."

No, thanks at thirty I want a complete slut in bed. The importance of virginity in Thailand has also faded away long ago....Your views are outdated and inaccurate.

well put.

[kat]

Kat Quote

And, I am supposed to waste my time looking for links for you, am I? Here's a clue: first of all, READ and DISCUSS what people say,

Since you have stated that '20-50%' of Thai Uni. students 'sell sexual services' - were acquired from a Chula. Uni educated women in response to a study conducted a while ago - it is only right, for persons and former students, to ask for the source of such study.

You have defended yourself by asking me to READ and DISCUSS what people say!

Kat proudly goes on that she has lived in Thailand for an amazing FOUR years, that my friend, is just a small amount of time in comparison to some others.

There you have it, such statistics are the results of too much imagination after READING and DISCUSSING too many Farang bar-girl threads in 4 years in LOS. BTW: Why be so suddenly afraid that Thai Uni. students hear of such statistics? Is not not fair that they too hear of 20-50% of Thai students prostituting themselves?

Suit yourself, Steve. I asked you to read and discuss, because based on your reactionary comments I seriously wonder whether you have actually read my posts. I stated in the first post that I didn't have a link to this study, because it was based on what an informed and unbiased Thai researcher told me 3 years ago. I also told you that similar statistics resurface from time to time in the BKK Post. I also told you proven ways to find out more information if you so wish, and have provided you with an excellent source of information such as the ILO. I don't blame you for wanting more substantiated facts, but so far you have provided even less.

As far as posting this on Thai websites, by all means, how on Earth should that intimidate me? I've been on some of those websites, and have had varied discussions of the sort with educated Thais. I've learned a lot of additional things about Thai culture in these discussions, as well as discussing social issues in a classroom of graduate students at a very good Thai university. Suit yourself.

But, one caveat: simply adding the moral righteousnes of Thai nationalism and a Thai wife behind your argument really doesn't make it any more credible or true. It simply makes it easy.

Edited August 6, 2006 by kat

[Mr Jones]

Any man only has so much blood in his body.

There is not enough blood supply to operate his brain and his dcik at the same time.

Question answered.

Les

[kat]

One other thing stevesuphan:

about your quote: "Kat proudly goes on that she has lived in Thailand for an amazing FOUR years, that my friend, is just a small amount of time in comparison to some others."

I am not proudly stating anything, I'm simply stating it. The rest is your projection and innuendo, possibly, because you have little else. Four years is enough. Length of time is important, but so is what you've been doing during that time. I've been doing a lot more than simply reading and discussing bar threads, however in combination with several other factors, these threads on Thailand are not insignificant. And also, I'm not publishing work here, I'm merely a participant on a discussion thread, so what I've been doing is really not the primary point in this context. For me, one of the primary points is whether or not you have anything to lose or gain by doggedly pursuing or defending one point.

But the again, I suppose to those like you, nothing is ever enough as long as you oppose it.

And one other thing: you earlier made another snide comment about me being representative of one Thaivisa's "finest". I am just a poster on this forum, like you. If you have issues with TV those are your issues, and have little to do with me. As a matter of fact, statistically speaking, YOU are more representative of the overwhelming majority of Thai visa posters than me: Western male with a Thai spouse/partner.

Edited August 6, 2006 by kat

[Totster]

Western male with a Thai spouse/partner.

My word Kat... I could almost hear you spit that last bit out...

totster

[t.s]

Western male with a Thai spouse/partner.

My word Kat... I could almost hear you spit that last bit out...

totster

apparently it is easier to hear what you want to hear than what the poster actually intended.

[kat]

Right, and easier to project some assumptions over others. I guess when the going gets rough, the people with lesser arguments simply attack the messenger.

[jdinasia]

I'm still working on the "3 years ago I talked to someone that said.... " and basing anything on that!

[Totster]

Hey, no attack intended.. just an observation.

totster

[kat]

Well (JDinAsia), suit yourself. As I said earlier, I know it is an unspecified link and an unknown Thai person who was actually researching gender for the U.N. and quoting a Thai study, so I am not treating this discussion as published work. That statistic will reappear again, and then we can recycle the exact same discussion almost verbatium ad nauseum.

And in the realm of discussing numbers on gender and the sex trade, 3 years is actually quite current.

what would the margin of error be in a study that says 20-50%? ....

say ... maybe .... +/- 30%?

Actually, the study she quoted was closer to 50 percent with unspecified parameters which I acknowledged on a previous post. Personally, I think the range of somewhere in the middle of 20-50 percent of mixed genders is probably more realistic.

edit typos

Edited August 6, 2006 by kat

[TRIPxCORE]

I think we need Erco or Smeg to weigh in on this subject.

What do you think brit?

Oh no, not Erco again and Smeg this time! ghosts of Christmas past and present who is the ghost of Christmas future.

Moss

Well you just gave yourself away as a former member, banned maybe, since your current join date is in 2006.

[kat]

Hey, no attack intended.. just an observation.

totster

Ok Tots

[taxin]

Guys, you just dont listen !! Trust me, ive been here over 4 years and I know, over 50% of students WILL sleep with a punter for money, its fact ! Thats 50%+ that will sleep with me, not necessarily you !!!

Listen, you cant give an exact percentage, this percentage is determined by a multitude of things, and its you, not them ! Now if Gonz is 50 years old but has a fair bit of confidence hes going to say 20%, if Steve is half a looker, under 50 and oozes with confidence and wit then he might say 30%, as for me im under 40, handsome, confident and extremely witty therefore, im going to perceive this as 50% !

Now I will reiterate this, 50% (or over) of Thai students WILL sleep with me for money !!! As for terry, hes the kiddy no matter what so he will be right up there too !

Actually, im feeling good today, im going to say 70% !!!!

[Lacoste]

Guys, you just dont listen !! Trust me, ive been here over 4 years and I know, over 50% of students WILL sleep with a punter for money, its fact ! Thats 50%+ that will sleep with me, not necessarily you !!!

Listen, you cant give an exact percentage, this percentage is determined by a multitude of things, and its you, not them ! Now if Gonz is 50 years old but has a fair bit of confidence hes going to say 20%, if Steve is half a looker, under 50 and oozes with confidence and wit then he might say 30%, as for me im under 40, handsome, confident and extremely witty therefore, im going to perceive this as 50% !

Now I will reiterate this, 50% (or over) of Thai students WILL sleep with me for money !!! As for terry, hes the kiddy no matter what so he will be right up there too !

Actually, im feeling good today, im going to say 70% !!!!

Come back when you can get women to sleep with you without a financial transaction taking place.

PS. you and Terry57 are the same person. (freak)

Edited August 6, 2006 by Lacoste