Vinegar and orange juice

[Kanga Japan]

I notice that NAM SOM (น้ำส้ม) can be understood to be both of the following:

1. vinegar

2. orange juice

Is that correct?

Thank you for your help.

[AyG]

Yup. SOM can mean citrus or sour (amongst other things).

A more formal name for vinegar is น้ำส้มสายชู - NAM SOM SAY CHU.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for that information. I already have NAM SOM SAY CHU listed as vinegar (white, distilled rice).

I'm just wondering:

1. If someone said NAM SOM, what would be the first thing people think of?

2. Considering that it literally means 'sour liquid', could that be a generic term, covering orange juice, vinegar and other sour liquids?

3. Should I still keep NAM SOM as meaning 'orange juice' and 'vinegar' and add 'sour liquid' as well, just to provide a more comprehensive understanding?

Sorry to bother you. Just trying to explain this term in a way that everyone would understand.

Thanks for your help.

[AyG]

(1) It would depend upon context. If I ordered NAM SOM in a restaurant I'd expect a glass of orange juice, not vinegar. If it were a recipe, then I'd expect vinegar. (Can't think of any Thai recipes offhand that use orange juice as an ingredient. It's pretty much always lime.)

(2, 3) A native speaker will know better, but "sour liquid" is, I think, too literal a translation. I don't think you need to include it with what you're trying to do.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thanks for the explanation. It's all clear now.

I will follow your advice.

[CMBob]

I see that nam som (as in orange juice) uses either "gaew" or "kuat" as a classifier whereas nam som (as in vinegar) only seems to use "kuat" as a classifier. I agree with AyG that context would largely control any restaurant request....although I suppose saying "nam som nueng gaew" might make it crystal clear.

But what if I wanted to ask the grocery store if they had any bottles of orange juice, i.e., which aisle would they likely lead me to if I asked "me nam som neung kuat mai?" Just curious.

[AyG]

But what if I wanted to ask the grocery store if they had any bottles of orange juice, i.e., which aisle would they likely lead me to if I asked "me nam som neung kuat mai?" Just curious.

They would give you a funny look since you'd be asking "Do you have one bottle of orange juice?".

In such a situation, NAM SOM would be orange juice. If you wanted to be led to to the vinegar aisle you'd ask for NAM SOM SAY CHU.

[Mole]

Nowadays orange juice comes in tetrapak boxes and not bottles anymore. So you would have to say กล่อง instead.

Vinegar however still comes in glass bottles, so one would say ขวด.

But usually, if you say only น้ำส้ม it will be understood to be orange juice, even in recipes, you should write น้ำส้มสายชู.

ส้ม doesn't only mean "sour" but it also means the color orange as well as the fruit. So by saying just น้ำส้ม, some people may think of it as "juice from orange fruit". But น้ำส้มสายชู will not leave any ambiguity.

[ATF]

If you want fresh orange juice ask for NAM SOM CAN.

[Mole]

Yes น้ำส้มคั้น means orange juice which is newly pressed from fresh oranges.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear ATF and Mole,

I already had that information, but thank you anyway.

Much appreciated.