Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[Puccini]

nonsense, they cannot tell you to go home, they can ony refuse entry...

Interesting legal point.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post. It is the following post that I thought was an interesting legal point:

I am not sure,but I would say it's illegal to refuse entry if you have a reentry permit. You have a reentry permit because obviously you have possessions and an address in Thailand. I would contact a lawyer if you can.

[ldiablo]

What is amazing about this whole situation is that Thai immigration expects a foreigner to be able to speak,read and write Thai in as little as 6 months whereas it takes a Thai about 6 years to be able to speak basic English. Seems a bit silly to me.

[thailiketoo]

What is amazing about this whole situation is that Thai immigration expects a foreigner to be able to speak,read and write Thai in as little as 6 months whereas it takes a Thai about 6 years to be able to speak basic English. Seems a bit silly to me.

I don't think we know that. Unless I missed something. 2nd hand information from one poster does not make a statement from Thai immigration.

[chrisinth]

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Just because you have a visa , you can still be refused entry. I don't understand why some people still try to argue the point. Anyone, when travelling between countries will always have a risk that they could be refused entry - however small.

What would happen if you already had permission to stay (extension) and you came back in on a re-entry permit? As the OP claimed to have.......................

Edit: That's the way I read it, perhaps wrongly.

Edited November 29, 2014 by chrisinth

[Soutpeel]

What is amazing about this whole situation is that Thai immigration expects a foreigner to be able to speak,read and write Thai in as little as 6 months whereas it takes a Thai about 6 years to be able to speak basic English. Seems a bit silly to me.

No, I believe root of this comments rests in the fact the OP had lived and been married in Thailand for 8 years prior to taking an Ed visa, in other words it was perceived the op was taking the piss

[Soutpeel]

Just because you have a visa , you can still be refused entry. I don't understand why some people still try to argue the point. Anyone, when travelling between countries will always have a risk that they could be refused entry - however small.

What would happen if you had permission to stay (extension) and you came back in on a re-entry permit? As the OP claimed to have.......................

They can still refuse you entry If there is cause, on an extension/visa/ re-entry permit, there is no automatic right of entry, only citizens and PR have that right

[Mario2008]

It is nonsense that immigration can deny someone at will. There must be a ground and you have the possibility of appeal against that reason.

This case shows that, in that the OP was given an official reason for him being denied entry. He could have appealed that decision, which would have been a waiste of time (waiting in the IDC). Op stated he had 9,000 baht and that is not enough to be allowed to enter.

OP was being interrogated because he was suspected of not being a genuine tourist and failed to convince immigration. Till o far nothing new in the OP's story. Others have posted being questioned. in the past.

What is new is that according to the OP they now expect people to be able to not only speak but also read and write Thai in 6 months time. If this is indeed a new policy remains to be seen.

After all, the OP was already a long time in Thailand before he started studying, so that he was able to speak Thai was in itself not enough and would have been normal. To show he really studied they wanted to see if he could also read and write.

That he couldn't, in combination with his visa history, made them suspect that he was not a real student. As OP has admitted, immigration was correct in that assumption.

[balo]

Interesting! Since the ED visa is not only issued to learn Thai, What happens to the Brit that is enrolled in a Japanese course or the Japanese person that is enrolled in an English course?

You need a letter from the language school that shows the student is learning another language than Thai. My friend who is learning intermediate English in Pattaya was asked to carry the letter with him every time he leaves the kingdom. The immigration can not deny any student learning other languages.

Yes, they can deny, revoke your permission of stay for any reason they like.

Not if you're attending classes, have a legal visa and no history of abusing visas or a criminal record.

[paz]

Not if you're attending classes, have a legal visa and no history of abusing visas or a criminal record.

No, not really. They just need a good reason, and if want they will always find one.

[wooloomooloo]

What is amazing about this whole situation is that Thai immigration expects a foreigner to be able to speak,read and write Thai in as little as 6 months whereas it takes a Thai about 6 years to be able to speak basic English. Seems a bit silly to me.

Best quote of the day. Though, by the OP's own admission, he didn't attend any lessons, as in none, ever and was unlikely to see the inside of a Thai language class if it was the last thing he did on this planet.

[Maestro]

From the little information JohnnyBKK has given it appears that he was refused entry under the following clauses of the Immigration Act:

Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the

Kingdom :

...

2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.

3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by

using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.

...

If this was the case, he now has this type of stamp in his passport, with different dates, of course:

[Mario2008]

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Just because you have a visa , you can still be refused entry. I don't understand why some people still try to argue the point. Anyone, when travelling between countries will always have a risk that they could be refused entry - however small.

What would happen if you already had permission to stay (extension) and you came back in on a re-entry permit? As the OP claimed to have.......................

Edit: That's the way I read it, perhaps wrongly.

Extension of stay and re-entry permit or not, they can still deny you entry if you do not meet the criteria for entry, mentioned in the immigration act.

Even when you are in the country on an extension of stay they can deport you, again based on the criteria mentioned in the immigration act.

Even a PR holder can still be deported, although the criteria for that are much more strict.

[Soutpeel]

It is nonsense that immigration can deny someone at will. There must be a ground and you have the possibility of appeal against that reason.

This case shows that, in that the OP was given an official reason for him being denied entry. He could have appealed that decision, which would have been a waiste of time (waiting in the IDC). Op stated he had 9,000 baht and that is not enough to be allowed to enter.

OP was being interrogated because he was suspected of not being a genuine tourist and failed to convince immigration. Till o far nothing new in the OP's story. Others have posted being questioned. in the past.

What is new is that according to the OP they now expect people to be able to not only speak but also read and write Thai in 6 months time. If this is indeed a new policy remains to be seen.

After all, the OP was already a long time in Thailand before he started studying, so that he was able to speak Thai was in itself not enough and would have been normal. To show he really studied they wanted to see if he could also read and write.

That he couldn't, in combination with his visa history, made them suspect that he was not a real student. As OP has admitted, immigration was correct in that assumption.

Well let's phrase it this way a visa, or extension of stay does not grant a person the automatic right of entry into country as some people believe it does

[brianp0803]

Someone read the reason for me it says insufficient funds. But the officer really got angry when i couldnt read thai. I had 9k baht on me a business world mastercard fully loaded and a kasikorn atm. I believe only cash counts. If i had enough cash i believe he would have said something else.

I find it highly suspicious that after a previous poster mentioned the insufficient funds stamp placed in his passport, that turned up as your stamp. That stamp does not bar a person from future entry. Also after having gone to a similar caliber language school myself when I first got here (as most real language school students do), it is highly suspicious the OP couldn't have at least read, and spoken most of the names of the Thai letters shown to him after 6 months in school, and spoken some (formal, not bar) Thai to the agent, that a person learns in school. I doubt the immigration agent expected the OP to be fluent, just show him enough basic formal school Thai fluency that a question of actually going to school was erased.

I think there is more going on here to make the immigration agent suspicious of long term stay on improper visas than is being reported by the OP. He has a car, and a Thai bank account after-all? How long has he actually been in Thailand before he went to Thai language school? He says he speaks Thai, so why go to school to learn to speak Thai, and not learn the basics of reading and writing Thai, that he doesn't understand?

I am confused about one thing when he exited Thailand. He states that he never went to school because he already spoke Thai, so he seemed to not be aware he had to extend the visa every 90 days, with paperwork from the school saying he was attending, and in fact the visa had been expired for quite some time after 7 months, and no 90 day extensions. With no extensions the agent seems correct in denying him entry under that visa, and given his length of stay, refused him entry on an exemption stamp. What I'm confused about is why he never was charged overstay fees when he left for HK, as his visa had been expired for about 4 months at that point. It might have been a costly oversight by immigration, but hard to believe.

He was not overstay

He said he was not attending classes

The obvious conclusion is he got 2 extension already.

My friends attending the same school told me it was common to see a new face every couple weeks.

Old students would come to class only on the day to renew paperwork.

Their paperwork work would show perfect attendance.

They had no problem not attending and getting extension paperwork.

My friends finished classes 3 months ago but that was their comments from their observation

[ATF]

but it does seem to be a troll post.

Who posted in: Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

Member name Posts

ATF 38

Great first post are you my new stalker? A Digital Pikey no doubt.

[Soutpeel]

Just because you have a visa , you can still be refused entry. I don't understand why some people still try to argue the point. Anyone, when travelling between countries will always have a risk that they could be refused entry - however small.

What would happen if you already had permission to stay (extension) and you came back in on a re-entry permit? As the OP claimed to have.......................

Edit: That's the way I read it, perhaps wrongly.

Extension of stay and re-entry permit or not, they can still deny you entry if you do not meet the criteria for entry, mentioned in the immigration act.

Even when you are in the country on an extension of stay they can deport you, again based on the criteria mentioned in the immigration act.

Even a PR holder can still be deported, although the criteria for that are much more strict.

Strictly speaking a PR can't be deported until they have been stripped of their PR and this process goes beyond the remit of an immigration officer at a border, until the PR status is removed the person has right of abode in country, they are a legal migrant, we shouldn't be confusing PR and visa's/extensions of stay completely different things, PR grants legal right of abode, the others don't

[aZooZa]

Interesting! Since the ED visa is not only issued to learn Thai, What happens to the Brit that is enrolled in a Japanese course or the Japanese person that is enrolled in an English course?

You need a letter from the language school that shows the student is learning another language than Thai. My friend who is learning intermediate English in Pattaya was asked to carry the letter with him every time he leaves the kingdom. The immigration can not deny any student learning other languages.

Yes, they can deny, revoke your permission of stay for any reason they like.

Not if you're attending classes, have a legal visa and no history of abusing visas or a criminal record.

They can refuse admission for any reason that they care to. It's the same in Australia, the UK and USA etc. - the fact that you've got valid paperwork matters not. It's entirely up to the IO when you present your passport. Of course you can argue the toss as best you can, but they have complete discretion as to where literally your next step will be.

[Fatty123]

Whether or not the OP was genuine is secondary. Thailand wants legit visa holders only.

The non B only route was closed. Then the tourist visa in/out route. Degrees from diploma mills were then rejected. For those with Khao San 'degrees', the new requirement is that you need your uni to send a letter to DOE (or maybe Kruspaha) unopened to them. So good luck with the permit renewal next time. Ed visa is being clamped down on. How many Thai language courses in Pattaya? Wonder why? The message is clear. Get the right visa or leave.

Before anyone says I'm an 'all right Jack', I'm anything but. I was ducking and diving in LOS for a few years. Married to a Thai. Then, with all the doors closing for visas, I left, I didn't have the 400k but could get the one year multi entry non O from Laos. But, I couldn't get a work permit anymore(I used a well known legal route that has now closed...not a fake degree btw).

So, I returned to the UK and started a full time degree in Education at an English uni. It's a massive pain in the backside being away from the Mrs and the degree course (which I am really enjoying) means I can't afford to bring wifey over while I'm doing it (finances are tight). So, no. I'm not gloating at all. I will finish the degree in about 18 months time. I could then easily get work permits for LOS or other nations. Although it's a real pain being apart from wifey, we've got a brighter future ahead and aren't worrying (and arguing).

I'm no Einstein, but I could see this coming a mile off (proper and legit visas only). If you're still out there ducking and diving and don't have an exit strategy...you could end up in big bother. I know the stress some of you are under (the married ones). I was too. It's not worth it and it only gets worse. If it's a degree you need, return home and do it. Or do it in LOS if possible. If it's money...then you'll need to return home to make it.

And yes, it will be your own fault as the signs are all there. If you're one of these people..sort things out while you still can.

[ukrules]

Yes, they can deny, revoke your permission of stay for any reason they like.

Not if you're attending classes, have a legal visa and no history of abusing visas or a criminal record.

They can refuse admission for any reason that they care to. It's the same in Australia, the UK and USA etc. - the fact that you've got valid paperwork matters not. It's entirely up to the IO when you present your passport. Of course you can argue the toss as best you can, but they have complete discretion as to where literally your next step will be.

It's not up to the immigration officer, it's up to the person in charge at the time. This will be someone of a much higher rank.

[aZooZa]

Yes, they can deny, revoke your permission of stay for any reason they like.

Not if you're attending classes, have a legal visa and no history of abusing visas or a criminal record.

They can refuse admission for any reason that they care to. It's the same in Australia, the UK and USA etc. - the fact that you've got valid paperwork matters not. It's entirely up to the IO when you present your passport. Of course you can argue the toss as best you can, but they have complete discretion as to where literally your next step will be.

It's not up to the immigration officer, it's up to the person in charge at the time. This will be someone of a much higher rank.

Okay, my meaning was the auspices of the immigration office of the port of entry as a collective entity - just to be clear. Sorry for the brevity.

Edited November 29, 2014 by aZooZa

[chrisinth]

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Just because you have a visa , you can still be refused entry. I don't understand why some people still try to argue the point. Anyone, when travelling between countries will always have a risk that they could be refused entry - however small.

What would happen if you already had permission to stay (extension) and you came back in on a re-entry permit? As the OP claimed to have....................... alt=rolleyes.gif>

Edit: That's the way I read it, perhaps wrongly.

Extension of stay and re-entry permit or not, they can still deny you entry if you do not meet the criteria for entry, mentioned in the immigration act.

Even when you are in the country on an extension of stay they can deport you, again based on the criteria mentioned in the immigration act.

Even a PR holder can still be deported, although the criteria for that are much more strict.

Thanks for that, as stated, it was a question only.

The reason I asked it was that, being approved for the extension would have meant that the OP had satisfied immigration in the first place that his stay was genuine. He left the country with a re-entry permit, on the initial permission to stay, and this has been overturned by another IO, without being privy to the documentation.

I know, I know, should be a little more sparing with the logic..................

[steve187]

Maybe you should have noticed that he has been back online around 3pm while at 9000 feet in the air,

the last post by johnnybkk was at 9.59am

where was he back on line at 3pm

[Anthony5]

Maybe you should have noticed that he has been back online around 3pm while at 9000 feet in the air,

the last post by johnnybkk was at 9.59am

where was he back on line at 3pm

Mouse over anyones username and you will see when he was last online.

[carter1882]

I bet you wished you had learnt to read and write Thai rather than working. You only have yourself to blame if you were unable to impress an immigration officer after six months.

[SRC]

If you are being refused entry, they can / will send you back to your last port of departure.

Thanks for your post. You've obviously in the know, you've been around for awhile. Sometimes it's really difficult to discern the truth. I use number of posts.

[meand]

Blessing in disguise. Lucky you.

[Maestro]

Mouse over anyones username and you will see when he was last online.

The time a member sees depends on the viewer's time zone setting in his profile. For example, on your above post I see the time stamp "Posted Today, 15:55". What time you you see?

[Maestro]

JohnnyBKK seems to have arrived a his destination. From screenshot taken about eight minutes ago:

[MacWalen]

Sorry but the point of an ED Visa is to attend classes, obviously you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classess

We have good attendance at all branches of Walen schools in Thailand. We encourage our students to attend and certainly would not do anything to harm any our our students so your point is totally missed.

Edited November 29, 2014 by MacWalen

[MacWalen]

Learning Thai for some is not easy. I tried learning for a very long time (almost 18 months) in a good school but in the end, it was not from a lack of trying, but the fact I have no abilities at all to learn Thai.

If you study at Walen School you will learn for sure. There is not such thing as "no ability at all to learn Thai". You will be able to speak and read Thai in no time, writing will take a bit longer.