Laptop Computer just for online banking ... ?

[JDGRUEN]

Another "rationalization" for doing this is to have a backup computer for finance stuff for times that my main PC is on the fritz, and that happens.

Doing such stuff in an internet cafe would be very bad ... and sometimes you need to do stuff right away, like credit card payments.

On the tablet vs. laptop, just how cheap could I go for this basic function WITHOUT windows?

Also, would the banking sites need to be the special mobile versions of the sites for the tablet?

At this point if I do this, cheapest sounds best if it does what I want.

Tablets - Android operating system Tablets - do not have to have a SIM ... just connect via WiFi. Some Tablets come as a combo -- phone and tablet computer and you use a SIM card if you want the phone feature turned on.

Samsung is outstanding in the Tablet field - you can get a fairly large screen and it is expensive. If I had the extra money - I would buy one of the bigger model Samsung tablets... Maybe an Asus or Acer - or others. But -- I can't justify it. Samsung Tablets and Google Maps/Earth -- is amazing.

Asus, ACER and Lenovo (formerly IBM) make nice Tablets and Mini Laptops. These brands do have some models with large screens... There are some good bargains from time to time.

The Tablets are touch screen and have a virtual keyboard that can be made to appear on the screen. Most do not have a cable connection (Cat 5) for connecting to a Internet Router - some do. For most tablets you would have to get a USB to Ethernet - Cat 5 cable connection adapter if you want to not use WiFi. You can get a wireless keyboard/mouse. But if you do - you may have to get a USB port multiplier / expander device -- one port on your Tablet then has several USB ports... you may need this if you want to plug in a lot of USB gadgets. Most tablets have few USB ports (the ones I have examined).

The many brands of Tablets and Smartphones using the Android operating system combined have the largest market share for these devices.

There are Tablets using the Windows operating system -- they do not seem to have much market share.

Then there are the Apple iPads running the Apple IOS.. many people love them ... I find no need for Apple Products - although I do respect their technology.

I access my Bank Accounts - two banks - using my Android Smartphone -- using the Bank supplied Apps. Everything works well and seems quite secure.

I have a username, password, pin and challenge words that I have to use. And only I know them. They are not written down anywhere. My Windows 8.1 Laptop is protected from downloaded intrusive malware. For financial use - one could easily have alternate passwords, pins and challenge words - then change them periodically. This can be done without getting crazy complicated.

One thing I like about one of my accounts -- the AMEX Bluebird Pre-Paid Debit / ATM card (which is actually a full checking account) is that I can change my ATM card PIN in about 30 seconds ... This can come in real handy in protecting a misplaced or stolen ATM Card... Change PIN immediately and then contact the bank by phone to suspend the card or have it deactivated - canceled. I can change the PIN using the phone app or my PC.

The Financial Institution / Bank supplies a secure Smartphone / Tablet App for connecting... They all offer Android and Apple IOS Apps and some offer Windows Mobile Apps.

Just some more thoughts on the subject.

Edited December 4, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[loloal]

All you have to do is to get a usb drive, make it bootable with your favorite OS (Google it, takes 5 minutes) and enable USB BOOT in your BIOS (usually F2/F12/del keyboard keys at startup depending on your computer)

Again, correct me guys if I'm wrong.

I used to do that on some of my computers when I needed a neutral environment for some reasons.

[jpinx]

Download Linux Tails and make a bootable USB stick. Boot ANY computer from that, and do your banking. When you shut down there will be no hint of your presence on the computer you used, and Tails is about as secure as you are going to find for the actual connection.

Read further here...

https://tails.boum.org/

and act accordingly.

Interesting but doesn't seem good for banking. Bank sites notice when you change computers. They expect the same "home computer" every time and if they don't see it, they demand additional authentication each time.

Not an issue -- your USB system *is* your home computer. It'll contain everything the bank expects.

[RKASA]

Download Linux Tails and make a bootable USB stick. Boot ANY computer from that, and do your banking. When you shut down there will be no hint of your presence on the computer you used, and Tails is about as secure as you are going to find for the actual connection.

Read further here...

https://tails.boum.org/

and act accordingly.

Interesting but doesn't seem good for banking. Bank sites notice when you change computers. They expect the same "home computer" every time and if they don't see it, they demand additional authentication each time.

Not an issue -- your USB system *is* your home computer. It'll contain everything the bank expects.

It is the cache of the browser - if you clear it you get the same authentication request - it is just a cookee. Most bank account hacks (rare) don't involve you or your PC. Credit and debit card account information hacks happen at places you give information to in the course of activities. Tails, tor and the like are way over the top just for banking. If you want real backup you need a stand alone system - you can't boot usb if your PC is not working nor can you run a vertual mech in a broken drive or without a monitor - the idea is to have a working back up for banking and files.

A laptop with working free OS and a browser. A device that can make a connection to the internet. I would have gone nuts years ago without a full functional backup. If not just for trouble shooting the broken windows system which is the most often seen PC problem on the planet.

[rakman]

It is highly recommended using a computer dedicated to just banking. No browsing except the banking site, don't even open mail on it.

Ubuntu is very easy to "learn", it has a gui with a lot of automated features, similar to Windows alerting you to run the patch manager. It is about as easy to learn as windows XP. Wifi is easily supported so there is little to fear in using it, and/or can use wired connection. Internal firewall is also a feature.

You may find it good and / or fun enough to use on the regular PC/laptop as well.

ClamAV is a decent way to check for viruses, just in case.

Note: No virus scanner is 100% accurate. It is always best to manually check the files you delete, if you are not totally sure that this is what you want to do.

[JDGRUEN]

For the people who want to go to all the trouble to get to a on line bank account ... in my opinion are making a mountain out of a mole hill - over blown threat fear. My backup is a Smartphone, My primary is a general use PC Laptop. I know people who have this plus an Android Tablet... So where is the lack of backup?

Mind you - I am not accessing stock/bond markets - nor using Swift to move tens of thousands of dollars, nor doing large bank wires. No high dollar activity going on.

I worked in a Bank IT Department for almost four years before retiring. We had about 150 Windows computers acting as the interface to 6-8 different servers. We had connections to the Federal Reserve and other banks for wire transfer, All the computers had simultaneous access to the Internet and to the private WAN to the branch banks. We had very robust anti-virus and anti-malware software/hardware. And we had a high level Firewall server. The Firewall server showed reports of attempts of intrusions by Chinese and Russian and other hackers each month - by the thousands. Banks attract that -- individuals do not.

I am only accessing two banks -- 3 checking accounts, a credit card, and a savings account. The triple layers of -- unique user account ID (not my known email account), password, and several rotating challenge words work quite well. Maybe keyloggers could get this ... but that kind of malware has never been on my computer. With windows 7 - now 8.1 and a good anti-virus / anti-malware and Windows firewall. I simply do not see the problem.

I suppose that there is a Internet site that keeps track of the incidents of people getting their individual computers hacked and their banking records stolen... Please point me to the site ... (serious question). I would like to see / read the stories.

One is more likely to lose information on a credit/debit card via a major merchandiser getting their servers hacked - example Target - (plus several major players in the news lately - many millions of customer accounts info stolen).

Going back to my bank work experience - the best way to use the internet for banking or anything else is to purchase and install a top rate 3rd. party Firewall software/device. This is available in the form of a separate hardware box - hard wire to it and then to the router. Top rated 3 party Firewall software would be a good solution too.

If one is living with a 'mate' who is computer/internet savvy - then you had better trust them. But better yet ... develop and use a set of passwords that you can remember - and never write them down. Plus do not let them use your computer. Buy them their own.

To keep my money safe using ATM - here is what I do. Note: potential of loss at an ATM is greater than someone hacking your computer to get your bank records.

- ATM Cards that accesses my accounts with the most money in them are not carried - rather are locked up. My accounts do not have automatic overdraft protection. The Debit/ATM card I carry (I call it 'Travel Card') has little to no money in it. When I need to get cash - I go on line with PC laptop or Smartphone -- move money to the Travel Card. Then pull almost all of it out at a Bank ATM within 10 minutes or so. Since my accounts do not have automatic overdraft protection - they are not connected.

Should a skimmer in an ATM gets my Travel Card info - they cannot get but $20.00 or so and cannot pull money from the Primary or Savings accounts. With my smartphone I can change PIN numbers via the Bank App and I can call and have the Card Suspended or Canceled - once a problem is noticed. This has not happened yet...

I have had reports via local FB Groups of Farangs who have been skimmed and thousands of dollars stolen. They didn't use the methods I describe above.

[jpinx]

..................

To keep my money safe using ATM - here is what I do. Note: potential of loss at an ATM is greater than someone hacking your computer to get your bank records.

- ATM Cards that accesses my accounts with the most money in them are not carried - rather are locked up. My accounts do not have automatic overdraft protection. The Debit/ATM card I carry (I call it 'Travel Card') has little to no money in it. When I need to get cash - I go on line with PC laptop or Smartphone -- move money to the Travel Card. Then pull almost all of it out at a Bank ATM within 10 minutes or so. Since my accounts do not have automatic overdraft protection - they are not connected.

Should a skimmer in an ATM gets my Travel Card info - they cannot get but $20.00 or so and cannot pull money from the Primary or Savings accounts. With my smartphone I can change PIN numbers via the Bank App and I can call and have the Card Suspended or Canceled - once a problem is noticed. This has not happened yet...

I have had reports via local FB Groups of Farangs who have been skimmed and thousands of dollars stolen. They didn't use the methods I describe above.

Thanks for your insights from the other side of the counter

Your comments regarding online banking are spot-on. Given sensible and often-changed passwords, it is unlikely to be the main threat. ATM cards, on the other hand, are fair game and you - like some others who have discussed this in here previously -- have hit on the same solution - and ATM card with no money in it. It's just a holding account while you walk from computer to ATM machine.

The OP is worried that his computer is vulnerable to malware of whatever kind and the only way to prevent that is to install decent malware protection and keep it up to date. Having said that - I'm using linux so I have little knowledge of modern windows viruses

If the OP wants an independent computer for banking, the best option is probably to use the same hardware but boot it from a LIVE usb stick. These are available free and have easily enough room for someone's banking requirements on a browser. It can be bbooted from any computer once you know the keystrokes to trip the BIOS -- sounds technical but usually is just a matter of hold a key down while you switch on, then select with the arrows for the USB to boot.

Note that the USB stick "becomes" the computer OS and the browser will retain passwords etc, so the USB stick will always be recognised by the bank, even when it's plugged into a different desktop or laptop. I think this was a specific concern for the OP..

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/debian-live-7.7.0-i386-kde-desktop.iso

[ToddinChonburi]

I use FireFox by Mozila and AVG has a free antivirus that works great. you can get any name brand computer for cheap. Just depends on processor and memory you want.

Toshiba has good low grade computers for school age kids. Window has good security and fire fox as your browser also has. Stay away from Tablets and anything that does not work with internet websites. Get something that works with your main internet banking website . No phone app or tablet app.

[ToddinChonburi]

Malwarebytes anti malware is also free.

[ToddinChonburi]

Do a search for Kim Kamando. she is a Tech women that has great advice on her website.

[JDGRUEN]

Those of you who suggest OP buy a memory stick, download a Linux system, make a bootable device, and use it are not paying attention to OP's level of computer sophistication. Read his words... One has to be a little bit techie to do this or have someone do it for them... then coach them how to use it and re-coach them after they forgot a step....

And amazingly enough some people still have older computers where the BIOS does not have a feature for using external boot devices - except the built in CD/DVD.

What is routine about what you suggest - to you - is simple - to others it is a mountain of confusion to climb.

I threw my ATM usage information in because for most people it is a far greater risk liability that what is actually happening with on line banking. And even with on line banking risks... Keeping checking/savings accounts separate from each other is a better idea (not having automatic overdraft protection turned on).

Until I can see some believable statistics showing real personal on line losses to keyboard logging, and other malware - with numerous 1st. person accounts of individuals suffering computer hacking - hijacking of bank accounts - remotely... AND have had bank / financial account losses -- then I remain skeptical.

I was in the computer/networking/Internet business for 25 years and witnessed consultants and vendors offering and even pushing over engineered solutions to problems that didn't actually exist. Great way to make money I suppose.

Example -- I had customers fear that their computer would be hacked at night when they were gone (never mind it could be done in the daytime also) ... So to calm their fears - I sold them a $15.00 A/B manual switch - an extra CAT 5 cable... put it in line to the wall jack -- and instructed them -- Daytime = ON ... Night Time = Off... Problem solved.

By the way... PC Laptop or MAC security is better served by a hard wire connection - rather than WiFi ... incorrect settings on a computer using WiFi can be a real vulnerability. Plus having correct settings that control shared access to File (hard drive) and devices are a must

[jpinx]

Here's another option to bypass keystroke loggers -- a virtual keyboard Some banks use this already, but I believe you can adapt this...

One example here

http://free-virtual-keyboard.en.softonic.com/

but there's lots more....

[slipperylobster]

Linux small Distros (that can load into RAM from a bootable USB stick, and save their settings and files back on the usb stick.

I use Precise Puppy.

Everything is saved on the USB stick. You do not have to install it on a hard drive. You can use this stick from Laptop to Laptop.

A Linux Program called "Wine" lets you run some windows software like you are actually on windows. I use Keepass on wine. (for bank passwords, logins..etc.). No traces left on the laptop when you shut down. It is wife proof. protect your usbstick...put you can put a login password on that as well.

You do not even need another laptop for banking....just your usb stick

Edited December 6, 2014 by slipperylobster

[NanLaew]

The bootable unix USB stick is a good idea. While you are at it, take a look at portableapps.com and get some of the utilities that you would want to use if you were forced to use a PC at an internet cafe. Install that on the bootable stick as well. These applications run standalone from the USB stick and when you are finished and remove the stick, it's like you were never there.

[jpinx]

The bootable unix USB stick is a good idea. While you are at it, take a look at portableapps.com and get some of the utilities that you would want to use if you were forced to use a PC at an internet cafe. Install that on the bootable stick as well. These applications run standalone from the USB stick and when you are finished and remove the stick, it's like you were never there.

That doesn't avoid the issue of keyloggers - a favourite with internet cafe bad guys.

Unless there's a virual keyboard on the usb stick system.

[NanLaew]

The bootable unix USB stick is a good idea. While you are at it, take a look at portableapps.com and get some of the utilities that you would want to use if you were forced to use a PC at an internet cafe. Install that on the bootable stick as well. These applications run standalone from the USB stick and when you are finished and remove the stick, it's like you were never there.

That doesn't avoid the issue of keyloggers - a favourite with internet cafe bad guys.

Unless there's a virual keyboard on the usb stick system.

How about this?

Run it from your portable USB flash drive

Free Virtual Keyboard is a totally portable application, meaning that you can put it on any USB stick and run it directly from there. In this way, your interactive keyboard will always be with you.

The settings are stored in the FreeVK.ini file located in the program installation folder. If it's impossible, settings are stored in the registry.

[jpinx]

The bootable unix USB stick is a good idea. While you are at it, take a look at portableapps.com and get some of the utilities that you would want to use if you were forced to use a PC at an internet cafe. Install that on the bootable stick as well. These applications run standalone from the USB stick and when you are finished and remove the stick, it's like you were never there.

That doesn't avoid the issue of keyloggers - a favourite with internet cafe bad guys.

Unless there's a virual keyboard on the usb stick system.

How about this?

Run it from your portable USB flash drive

Free Virtual Keyboard is a totally portable application, meaning that you can put it on any USB stick and run it directly from there. In this way, your interactive keyboard will always be with you.

The settings are stored in the FreeVK.ini file located in the program installation folder. If it's impossible, settings are stored in the registry.

Looks good! No need to use it all the time, just for log in information and other sensitive stuff.

P.S. There's one for linux too -- called florence

Edited December 9, 2014 by jpinx

[JDGRUEN]

7 out of 10 post here have exceeding OP's level of computer sophistication -- read his OP... OP is looking for something he can deal with ... OP does not seem 'geeky' ... so --- maybe some suggestions that people like OP and others can actually deal with... And before any condescending posts come jumping out... please take into account -- not everyone is like you - who can download obscure sounding software and put it on a memory stick and have any idea how to properly use it...

Yes it is simple -- for some ... so is flying a Lear Jet - for some...

[jpinx]

7 out of 10 post here have exceeding OP's level of computer sophistication -- read his OP... OP is looking for something he can deal with ... OP does not seem 'geeky' ... so --- maybe some suggestions that people like OP and others can actually deal with... And before any condescending posts come jumping out... please take into account -- not everyone is like you - who can download obscure sounding software and put it on a memory stick and have any idea how to properly use it...

Yes it is simple -- for some ... so is flying a Lear Jet - for some...

Agreed -- and the simple advice was given earlier. Get decent malware protection that self-installs and self-updates

Now we're just shooting the breeze on "advanced options"

[WitawatWatawit]

7 out of 10 post here have exceeding OP's level of computer sophistication -- read his OP... OP is looking for something he can deal with ... OP does not seem 'geeky' ... so --- maybe some suggestions that people like OP and others can actually deal with... And before any condescending posts come jumping out... please take into account -- not everyone is like you - who can download obscure sounding software and put it on a memory stick and have any idea how to properly use it...

Yes it is simple -- for some ... so is flying a Lear Jet - for some...

For some reason, simple logic fails people when they start to talk about computers (or other geek stuff). The key words here are "simple logic". They should be tatooed on the eyebrows of every geektard . KISS - keep it simple, stupid. Thank you JD. I hope you will join my revolution against the geektards.

Sorry JT for hijacking your thread. I was going to suggest something (a very sound techie guy who could help you by building a basic PC for dirt cheap), but I think you have some great suggestions here already. And at little cost. Not a bad thread all round.

[NanLaew]

7 out of 10 post here have exceeding OP's level of computer sophistication -- read his OP... OP is looking for something he can deal with ... OP does not seem 'geeky' ... so --- maybe some suggestions that people like OP and others can actually deal with... And before any condescending posts come jumping out... please take into account -- not everyone is like you - who can download obscure sounding software and put it on a memory stick and have any idea how to properly use it...

Yes it is simple -- for some ... so is flying a Lear Jet - for some...

For some reason, simple logic fails people when they start to talk about computers (or other geek stuff). The key words here are "simple logic". They should be tatooed on the eyebrows of every geektard . KISS - keep it simple, stupid. Thank you JD. I hope you will join my revolution against the geektards.

Sorry JT for hijacking your thread. I was going to suggest something (a very sound techie guy who could help you by building a basic PC for dirt cheap), but I think you have some great suggestions here already. And at little cost. Not a bad thread all round.

Nobody being condescending here is there? The OP wants an opinion on his non-geek solution to his online security concerns and had been civil in his responses to many practical suggestions, all of which are manifestly cheaper than his original solution. I would wager that these responses have been couched in a fair bit of computer savvy, aided by appropriate google searches.

So why this ugly name calling? You are frustrated that some jargon has gone over your head, is that it? Nobody here has proposed anything that requires more than the ability to buy a USB stick, plug it into a computer or laptop, surf to maybe 3 or 4 different websites, download several small programs and, get this as it's probably the bit that's causing you so much grief, FOLLOW THE SIMPLE ON SCREEN INSTRUCTIONS.

The OP has suggested a (approximate) 20,000 baht solution that is bulky but manageable. He can carry that laptop or tablet on the baht bus, headed to his nearest Starbucks to do his online banking. It can get dropped, broken or stolen.

You have suggested maybe a 12,000 baht solution that is hardly portable and makes someone you know a bit of money. He does it all at home on small chunk of space-eating hardware that can't be used for anything else but online banking.... and collecting dust.

I, with the help of a few others "shooting the breeze" have offered a totally free, totally portable, personal USB stick solution that fits in the pocket. He can hang the stick on his key ring and walk to anywhere he wants, any time he wants to pay the bills online.

Hey! I will even offer to do one for free that he can try out at no-risk. All he needs to provide is a USB stick and I am pretty sure he's tech head enough to have some of those already.

I am not even calling anyone dumb but all you really need to do is ask.

KISS... Keep It Simple Stupid? How about KICK... Keep It Civil Knobhead.