Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[balo]

"But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them"

Yes, like who? Do you have any examples to share?

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since the one you want to pin the ID on was not on the island at the time, it leaves only two options, of the two, in my opinion Zaw Lin has a resemblance to the man on the CCTV footage more than Win Zaw, specially the hairstyle (since then he had it cut).

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

This is a photoshopped picture from CSI LA . What is your point ?

If you want me to I can make another picture of one of the Burmese guys and it would fit perfectly.

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

We have not only one but several cctv footage showing him in uni and his condo in Banglok. Some people (you ) claim they have been manipulated, theres no evidence of that. However it does not give him a 100% alibi so that's why he finally agreed to do a Dna test. These are the facts and he has been cleared.

[greenchair]

Metropolitan police had 'observer status only' on visit to Thailand

The Metropolitan police have confirmed that British detectives who travelled to Thailand to look into concerns that had been raised about the investigation into the murder of Jerseyman David Miller and a fellow Brit, had observer status only.

During their visit at no point were the detectives given access to any physical or forensic evidence or interviews and statements that had been collected.

The police will release a report detailing their observations in January 2015, but will be for internal use only and will not be shared with the Thai authorities

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-12-23/metropolitan-police-had-observer-status-only-on-visit-to-thailand/

Yes, observer status only....... never ever they questioned the integrity of the evidence ............they only observed. They might as well have used Skype. What was the point in going there in the first place? Never ever had they access to any physical or forensic evidence, they never interviewed one single witness nor did they meet with anybody from the defense team. What were they doing there? Eating Fried Rice with Som Tam? And the parents were happy with the results? C'mon! They will publish their findings in Jan, but only for internal use......yeah what else? There can't be lot in that report other than "we observed", "we were presented", "we read", "we were showed"..... and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing. Anybody knows the SkypeID from the RTP? I thought is was kohtaocoverup.

And does this also mean the coroner did not do a full investigation of dna

[mcm991]

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

Since I actually saw a video your point is moot.

The running man picture was also taken from a CCTV camera, the video can be seen clearly. Just type koh tao running man into youtube, google, bing or whatever. And Nomsod does that unmistakeable left hand tic. I hope you'll watch it but bet you won't

AleG has likely seen that footage. Yet for the 4 people on these threads who vehemently don't want to acknowledge any links from the crime to the Headman's people (including Nomsod), they won't see him in that clip, even though nearly everyone else following this case closely, sees him there. If I take a person outside and point out a bird sitting in a tree - That person won't see the bird if his eyes are closed tight, or if that person is fixated on refusing to acknowledge any bird could ever be sitting in that particular tree.

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

[Willy Eckerslike]

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

I agree.............. send them to Coventry

[djjamie]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

Edited December 25, 2014 by djjamie

[AleG]

Since I actually saw a video your point is moot.

The running man picture was also taken from a CCTV camera, the video can be seen clearly. Just type koh tao running man into youtube, google, bing or whatever. And Nomsod does that unmistakeable left hand tic. I hope you'll watch it but bet you won't

AleG has likely seen that footage. Yet for the 4 people on these threads who vehemently don't want to acknowledge any links from the crime to the Headman's people (including Nomsod), they won't see him in that clip, even though nearly everyone else following this case closely, sees him there. If I take a person outside and point out a bird sitting in a tree - That person won't see the bird if his eyes are closed tight, or if that person is fixated on refusing to acknowledge any bird could ever be sitting in that particular tree.

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

Are you saying I'm being paid to post here?

[Luang]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

And I can't believe after all this time and with all these threads that you still don't know that the UK Police did NOT investigate the case, which is a major development (or indeed lack of) and concern. It's been raised on this and other threads, numerous times. Christ man , did you open your eyes today or just your mouth?!

[Krenjai]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

"The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case." ????

The UK police did not investigate anything, you know full well they only observed the evidence the RTP showed them and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing to the family. The family never said they are confident the police have he right people. You are a word twister Koh Tao style!

[Krenjai]

Metropolitan police had 'observer status only' on visit to Thailand

The Metropolitan police have confirmed that British detectives who travelled to Thailand to look into concerns that had been raised about the investigation into the murder of Jerseyman David Miller and a fellow Brit, had observer status only.

During their visit at no point were the detectives given access to any physical or forensic evidence or interviews and statements that had been collected.

The police will release a report detailing their observations in January 2015, but will be for internal use only and will not be shared with the Thai authorities

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-12-23/metropolitan-police-had-observer-status-only-on-visit-to-thailand/

Yes, observer status only....... never ever they questioned the integrity of the evidence ............they only observed. They might as well have used Skype. What was the point in going there in the first place? Never ever had they access to any physical or forensic evidence, they never interviewed one single witness nor did they meet with anybody from the defense team. What were they doing there? Eating Fried Rice with Som Tam? And the parents were happy with the results? C'mon! They will publish their findings in Jan, but only for internal use......yeah what else? There can't be lot in that report other than "we observed", "we were presented", "we read", "we were showed"..... and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing. Anybody knows the SkypeID from the RTP? I thought is was kohtaocoverup.

And does this also mean the coroner did not do a full investigation of dna

No, I am convinced the UK coroner did a full investigation of the bodies & DNA (if still traceable), your question therefor should be, did the UK coroner obtain fresh independently collected DNA samples of the B2 and did he compare this against the DNA of the repatriated bodies (if still traceable)?

[Luang]

Just to clarify for anyone else who hasn't been keeping up on events and particularly those surrounding the visit of the UK Police:

The UK Police did NOT do any form of investigation whilst in Thailand. This they have confirmed themselves. They took back to the UK the information that was provided to them by the Thai Police. I don't think I need to go into to much dialogue regarding what that looked like. The UK Police by all accounts have questioned nothing. They returned to the UK with the info/BS/lies/deceit (take your pick) and regurgitated this same stuff to the families. No doubt the families trust their police force to do the right thing and therefore didn't question what they have been fed.

So, if you are happy with this situation and that the Thai's have done a transparent and professional job, they have their killers then no need to worry, all is well and justice is about to be served. On the other hand .....................................

Diplomacy procedures have been followed, governments have looked after their business interests and things will resume as normal soon enough. Sad world we live in people!! Merry Xmas.

[Luang]

Metropolitan police had 'observer status only' on visit to Thailand

The Metropolitan police have confirmed that British detectives who travelled to Thailand to look into concerns that had been raised about the investigation into the murder of Jerseyman David Miller and a fellow Brit, had observer status only.

During their visit at no point were the detectives given access to any physical or forensic evidence or interviews and statements that had been collected.

The police will release a report detailing their observations in January 2015, but will be for internal use only and will not be shared with the Thai authorities

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-12-23/metropolitan-police-had-observer-status-only-on-visit-to-thailand/

Yes, observer status only....... never ever they questioned the integrity of the evidence ............they only observed. They might as well have used Skype. What was the point in going there in the first place? Never ever had they access to any physical or forensic evidence, they never interviewed one single witness nor did they meet with anybody from the defense team. What were they doing there? Eating Fried Rice with Som Tam? And the parents were happy with the results? C'mon! They will publish their findings in Jan, but only for internal use......yeah what else? There can't be lot in that report other than "we observed", "we were presented", "we read", "we were showed"..... and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing. Anybody knows the SkypeID from the RTP? I thought is was kohtaocoverup.

And does this also mean the coroner did not do a full investigation of dna

No, I am convinced the UK coroner did a full investigation of the bodies & DNA (if still traceable), your question therefor should be, did the UK coroner obtain fresh independently collected DNA samples of the B2 and did he compare this against the DNA of the repatriated bodies (if still traceable)?

Not a chance by the look of things. The police came, scratched their <deleted> and fecked off back home with nothing!! Should be ashamed to call themselves crime detectives !

[djjamie]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

"The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case." ????

The UK police did not investigate anything, you know full well they only observed the evidence the RTP showed them and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing to the family. The family never said they are confident the police have he right people. You are a word twister Koh Tao style!

The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand said evidence against Myanmar migrants accused of the crime is convincing.

Can it not be left at that and then wait and see what the courts have to say?

I assume you think there were no planes involved in the 9/11 attacks as well.

Everything is a conspiracy to you guys.

[aimbc]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

Edited December 25, 2014 by aimbc

[Luang]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

"The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case." ????

The UK police did not investigate anything, you know full well they only observed the evidence the RTP showed them and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing to the family. The family never said they are confident the police have he right people. You are a word twister Koh Tao style!

The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand said evidence against Myanmar migrants accused of the crime is convincing.

Can it not be left at that and then wait and see what the courts have to say?

I assume you think there were no planes involved in the 9/11 attacks as well.

Everything is a conspiracy to you guys.

This has nothing to do with conspiracies. It's about justice for 2 people raped and murdered and 2 more who might be. It's about trust in the investigation and convicting the guilty. As has already been said (you just don't want to listen) the evidence provided to the families is the evidence of the Thai Police so of course it appears convincing, the police have decided who they want to be found guilty So convincing the prosecutors sent it back time after time to give them more of a chance to 'get it right'! Have you not a critical thinking bone in your body? Have you not seen the numerous and glaring inconsistencies from day one?

You talk of conspiracies. I think just of blind stupidity!

[aimbc]

Porntip, who is director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province, was weak and the results not fully trustworthy as police did not involve forensic specialists at the crime scene.

She added that since the police force handled the investigation on their own, the Thai public doubted the outcome of the case.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html

This is a very damning statement about the investigation. But as we know if it's in front of a jury, it may help to sway the defendant case. But I heard Thailand do not have a jury system. Does anyone know how the defense using that to their advantage? I hope they can as I feel the same way that the investigation was less than transparent.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

[aimbc]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Thanks...this is good development.

[Luang]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

What date was that recording from though Willy?

[Willy Eckerslike]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science.

The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case.

If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

"The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case." ????

The UK police did not investigate anything, you know full well they only observed the evidence the RTP showed them and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing to the family. The family never said they are confident the police have he right people. You are a word twister Koh Tao style!

The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand said evidence against Myanmar migrants accused of the crime is convincing.

Can it not be left at that and then wait and see what the courts have to say?

I assume you think there were no planes involved in the 9/11 attacks as well.

Everything is a conspiracy to you guys.

That evidence against the Myanmar migrants was given to the family's by the Office of State Attorney Region 8 (Prosecutors) not the Brit Police

[Willy Eckerslike]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

What date was that recording from though Willy?

Not Sure Luang, I did not post the original....but I think it was Mon 22nd

[Vejo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

What date was that recording from though Willy?

Not Sure Luang, I did not post the original....but I think it was Mon 22nd

I heard it via Iplayer it was three days ago, my guess is someone at the Met has been less than discrete with a reporter chum and has now had his wrist slapped and the story has been withdrawn. I would find it hard to believe that the investigators involved went to Thailand naively and just on a jolly. This is a double murder of British citizens with a high media profile, they would be more than aware of RTP reputations and the fact they were only "invited" after a few quiet words in the right ears. I'm convinced any persons of interest back in the U.K. will have been interviewed and politely but assuredly asked not to talk to anyone until after the inquiry releases it's findings. Next year is election year there is a lot of Kudos to be gained politically if the public desire for justice can be satiated

[Krenjai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786859-kho-tao-murders-bbc-news

BBC news item discussed

[draftvader]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786859-kho-tao-murders-bbc-news

BBC news item discussed

Thanks for doing that.

[draftvader]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

Just to clarify this transcript was done by me from the audio. There is no other record of this out there on the internet. Please read the thread that was opened then closed on this to see where we got to.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786859-kho-tao-murders-bbc-news/

[draftvader]

To save a lot of people going to the BBC website and trawling through I have extracted the whole news section, for context, here. The audio of interest starts at 01:35 as the 3rd item.

bbc_news_dec_22_3pm_radio_2.mp3

[boomerangutang]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science. The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case. If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

One doesn't have to be a part of a conspiracy to believe what police tell them. Brit experts were briefed by Thai police regarding the scenario which Thai police want everyone to believe. Brit experts took what they were told, and regurgitated it to the families. Brit authorities are inclined to think that that their counterparts in Thailand would tell them the truth. Similarly, victims' families are inclined to believe what Brit experts convey to them. It's like the ruse of the Piltdown Man: it only took ONE scammer at the source, to fool all the experts and the general public for years.

The DNA trail could be intentionally skewed by just one or two people at the top. After doing that, all the DNA evidence is skewed, including the comparisons which matter most:

>>> DNA from Burmese matches

>>> Nomsod's DNA doesn't match

The Brit coroner, if he did typing for DNA found on/in Hannah, could shed light on this. However, we don't know if the Brits did DNA testing, and if they did, would they risk diplomatic tsunami by announcing results, if the results differed from Thai claims. There is a way out for the Brits, in diplomatic perspective. They can simply say they don't have DNA typing from suspects, which is true, because Thai experts won't share suspects' DNA with the Brits. Thais won't share Nomsod's, and probably not Mon's. And Thai probably didn't even do DNA test on the Stingray Man or Mon's cop friend, even though all those mentioned should be suspects. In sum: Thai cops are likely allowing rapists and murderers to roam free on the island - to strike again, knowing they're untouchable.

[greenchair]

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

I agree.............. send them to Coventry

And stop reposting them. So nobody gets to see the important information. Like the Brits coppers not doing any investigating, but the family giving a carefully worded press release, that led people to believe the brit cops supported the Thai cop investigation. Which we now know is not true .

[greenchair]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Thanks...this is good development.

I don't understand. When I go to the sight it just talks about some guy Steve wright.

Did I miss something. What news are you talking about.

[falangjim]

In the eyes of the public, Win and Zaw are already perceived as innocent. Unfortunately in this case, that is not enough. I've read the trail starts today, the 26th. I sincerely pray that justice is not perverted again, that the international attention this case has received will be enough of an edge to set the two scapegoats free. Forget about justice for David and Hannah. The Thais have fcked this up so royally, there's no chance of catching the real killers. But save two Burmese innocent lives must be the objective here.

[StealthEnergiser]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Thanks...this is good development.

I don't understand. When I go to the sight it just talks about some guy Steve wright.

Did I miss something. What news are you talking about.

it is definitely there just play and wait until 01:01:48