the new thai goverment bonds.

[meatboy]

the wife just caught some of the details for the sale of the bonds to cover the losses in the rice scam.

they are to go on sale january i think 12th-19th.over 10yrs.paying arround 4%.

so can anyone with the bond knowledge,give us the low down,its the wife that is interested as long as interest is

paid yrly.

tax?

[meatboy]

typical to release the date of sale on the day that all the banks are closed.

this is in todays thai newspaper.

first sale 12th to 16th with a limit of 2million per.customer.

second sale 19th to 20th with no limit.

there will be a 10yr.bond [gov]

and a 5yr.bond through the b.a.a.c.bank. [bank of agriculture]

[falang07]

4% for 10 years is not competitive compared with 3.5% at CIMB for just 14 months. 10 years is a long commitment.

[meatboy]

4% for 10 years is not competitive compared with 3.5% at CIMB for just 14 months. 10 years is a long commitment.

interest is i think compouned but we are not greedy so 4% will do,already got over a dozen accs.so as its the wife she will be happy to get 4%interest every yr.then invest that.makes sense?

[Boycie]

I've also heard about these bonds in past years.

Understand it as they have a prize draw each month as well as pay interest on maturity.

Never looked into further at the time, but if someone has more details, please share.

[meatboy]

I've also heard about these bonds in past years.

Understand it as they have a prize draw each month as well as pay interest on maturity.

Never looked into further at the time, but if someone has more details, please share.

i to with knowledge of bonds,never been involved with them.wife is going in to the banks to try and find out who will be authorized to sell them.

as for a prize draw each month the only ones that i know about[we have 4,000tickets] are a 3yr.investment with the thai gov.savings bank. there is a draw on the 16th.of each month.you get a fixed % for 1yr.2yrs.and 3yrs.plus any winnings which are non taxable.

WHERE ARE CM.HELP

Edited December 10, 2014 by meatboy

[meatboy]

I've also heard about these bonds in past years.

Understand it as they have a prize draw each month as well as pay interest on maturity.

Never looked into further at the time, but if someone has more details, please share.

i to with knowledge of bonds,never been involved with them.wife is going in to the banks to try and find out who will be authorized to sell them.

as for a prize draw each month the only ones that i know about[we have 4,000tickets] are a 3yr.investment with the thai gov.savings bank. there is a draw on the 16th.of each month.you get a fixed % for 1yr.2yrs.and 3yrs.plus any winnings which are non taxable.

WHERE ARE CM.HELP

anyone interested in these bonds dont be suprised if your bank staff knows nothing about them,the wife went into one of the big three and they new nutting.the other banks said to go in at the end of the month.

[mikemellow]

thats funny a bond in a country that does not have a constitution or a stable government that need a prize drawing each month attached to it to get people to buy it.

[TerryLH]

"thats funny a bond in a country that does not have a constitution or a stable government that need a prize drawing each month attached to it to get people to buy it."

What's funny is that you didn't read the answer about the prize drawing. It's not for this type of account.

[lil fluffy clouds]

Did somebody say government?

[akentryan]

Krung Thai Bank recently had a 4% fixed deposit for 5 years with interest monthly, don't know what the December rate is. I owned one government bond and it paid interest twice a year. I think it was a 5% . Not a problem with interest or collecting on maturity

[JacChang]

If you understand how the bonds work, you would not buy them.

Government out of money --> issue bonds ----> some Charlie gives the money to the government with promise of 4% interest rates ---> government returns with inflated money without any loss or costs at all for the government ----> Inflation bypasses all.

From Point A to Point B? No gain, waste of 10 years time.

Go ahead try it, 2 million. Which car can you buy with it right now. Then after 10 years with all the 4% interest, see if you can buy the same equivalent car. 10 years of inflation is very very scary. Don't do it.

Get some property funds instead, most are paying 5-8%.

[meatboy]

If you understand how the bonds work, you would not buy them.

Government out of money --> issue bonds ----> some Charlie gives the money to the government with promise of 4% interest rates ---> government returns with inflated money without any loss or costs at all for the government ----> Inflation bypasses all.

From Point A to Point B? No gain, waste of 10 years time.

Go ahead try it, 2 million. Which car can you buy with it right now. Then after 10 years with all the 4% interest, see if you can buy the same equivalent car. 10 years of inflation is very very scary. Don't do it.

Get some property funds instead, most are paying 5-8%.

[NeverSure]

Never invest more in Thailand than you are willing plan to lose. For me that means nada, zip, zeeero.

The baht seems artificially high to me right now. What if it tanks?

[meatboy]

Never invest more in Thailand than you are willing plan to lose. For me that means nada, zip, zeeero.

The baht seems artificially high to me right now. What if it tanks?

yes i agree ns.but its the wifes money and she is fed up having to go from bank to bank trying to get a decent fixed rate,the last 5yrs.thats all we have done and from memory the best we have had was 3.67% over 18months,

scb.stepped acc.she does have quite a few fixed accs.so a long term is ok.for her.

[beechguy]

Never invest more in Thailand than you are willing plan to lose. For me that means nada, zip, zeeero.

The baht seems artificially high to me right now. What if it tanks?

And that's your choice, but you seem to think along the lines of a tourist, versus an expat. Do the people in the U.S. never lose money? Real estate, divorce, pension funds cut because of underfunding, or cities going bankrupt? Not to mention, the IRS ripping people off, by seizing their funds without being convicted in court.

Thanks, I'll just take my chances in Thailand. As to exchange rates, I hardly ever send any money back to the U.S. so if the baht weakens against the dollar, I don't really care, if anything, it would just encourage me to transfer more to Thailand. I just doubt that I would use it, to get involved in these particular bonds.

Edited December 13, 2014 by beechguy

[mikemellow]

If your wife is willing to gamble in Thai government bonds maybe a safer gamble would be for her to diversify into a few Thai stocks that pay dividends on the SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand).

[NeverSure]

These bonds are to cover debt the Thai government has for the rice scheme. This debt isn't carried on Thailand's books as national debt because with head planted firmly in sand it pretends it has collateral to cover the loans. We all know that's ridiculous for two reasons. The government borrowed the money and paid way more for the rice than its worth, and much of the rice is missing or rotten. If that weren't the case they'd just sell the rice and pay off the loans.

In the meantime the Ag Bank is technically bankrupt if anyone honest audited it. Those auditors would mark the rice to market and show what it's really worth as a ratio of the loans in the Ag Bank's "revolving fund." The rice value would be a tiny fraction of the amount owed to the bank and the Ag Bank would have to charge that loan off as a loss.

So here come the guys on white horses with another scheme. Get the little people who don't know anything to collectively lend them billions to pay off the bank before its true balance sheet becomes common news.

The Thai government doesn't show this debt as national debt even though it's obvious they have to find the money to cover it and they don't have it.

Some people haven't even been paid for their rice or for their new car scheme rebates. And now they want to go out there ten years and bet they'll be paid back for bailing out the rice scheme losses which amount to at least 700 billion baht?

[meatboy]

These bonds are to cover debt the Thai government has for the rice scheme. This debt isn't carried on Thailand's books as national debt because with head planted firmly in sand it pretends it has collateral to cover the loans. We all know that's ridiculous for two reasons. The government borrowed the money and paid way more for the rice than its worth, and much of the rice is missing or rotten. If that weren't the case they'd just sell the rice and pay off the loans.

In the meantime the Ag Bank is technically bankrupt if anyone honest audited it. Those auditors would mark the rice to market and show what it's really worth as a ratio of the loans in the Ag Bank's "revolving fund." The rice value would be a tiny fraction of the amount owed to the bank and the Ag Bank would have to charge that loan off as a loss.

So here come the guys on white horses with another scheme. Get the little people who don't know anything to collectively lend them billions to pay off the bank before its true balance sheet becomes common news.

The Thai government doesn't show this debt as national debt even though it's obvious they have to find the money to cover it and they don't have it.

Some people haven't even been paid for their rice or for their new car scheme rebates. And now they want to go out there ten years and bet they'll be paid back for bailing out the rice scheme losses which amount to at least 700 billion baht?

yep that is how i see it,next on the cards is the RUBBER money, then ?

i have asked the wife to invest in 50cases of cider for the next 10yrs.and i will give her 5% return her answer was the same as yours ns.YOU DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY ME.

[mikemellow]

These bonds are to cover debt the Thai government has for the rice scheme. This debt isn't carried on Thailand's books as national debt because with head planted firmly in sand it pretends it has collateral to cover the loans. We all know that's ridiculous for two reasons. The government borrowed the money and paid way more for the rice than its worth, and much of the rice is missing or rotten. If that weren't the case they'd just sell the rice and pay off the loans.

In the meantime the Ag Bank is technically bankrupt if anyone honest audited it. Those auditors would mark the rice to market and show what it's really worth as a ratio of the loans in the Ag Bank's "revolving fund." The rice value would be a tiny fraction of the amount owed to the bank and the Ag Bank would have to charge that loan off as a loss.

So here come the guys on white horses with another scheme. Get the little people who don't know anything to collectively lend them billions to pay off the bank before its true balance sheet becomes common news.

The Thai government doesn't show this debt as national debt even though it's obvious they have to find the money to cover it and they don't have it.

Some people haven't even been paid for their rice or for their new car scheme rebates. And now they want to go out there ten years and bet they'll be paid back for bailing out the rice scheme losses which amount to at least 700 billion baht?

Good post

Asian financial crisis #2 Anyone?

Maybe Thailand can be #1 again, at starting another Asian meltdown.

[meatboy]

so far what i know is that kasikorn bank are starting selling the low end[ 2million limit] bonds,12jan-16thjan.

and no limit on the 19th and 20th.

interest rate will be anounced on the 5th.jan.

[samran]

These bonds are to cover debt the Thai government has for the rice scheme. This debt isn't carried on Thailand's books as national debt because with head planted firmly in sand it pretends it has collateral to cover the loans. We all know that's ridiculous for two reasons. The government borrowed the money and paid way more for the rice than its worth, and much of the rice is missing or rotten. If that weren't the case they'd just sell the rice and pay off the loans.

In the meantime the Ag Bank is technically bankrupt if anyone honest audited it. Those auditors would mark the rice to market and show what it's really worth as a ratio of the loans in the Ag Bank's "revolving fund." The rice value would be a tiny fraction of the amount owed to the bank and the Ag Bank would have to charge that loan off as a loss.

So here come the guys on white horses with another scheme. Get the little people who don't know anything to collectively lend them billions to pay off the bank before its true balance sheet becomes common news.

The Thai government doesn't show this debt as national debt even though it's obvious they have to find the money to cover it and they don't have it.

Some people haven't even been paid for their rice or for their new car scheme rebates. And now they want to go out there ten years and bet they'll be paid back for bailing out the rice scheme losses which amount to at least 700 billion baht?

Perhaps a better way is to look at the MOFs history of default.

Unless I am mistaken, they don't have one. My secretary was still getting payments a few years ago of the 15% yield bonds she invested in during the 90's.

The current minister is a public debt expert. The PDMO aren't a bunch of idiots either. I suspect the issuance will be snapped up.

[meatboy]

yes samran unless you have a brown nose we peasants wont get a look in.

[samran]

yes samran unless you have a brown nose we peasants wont get a look in.

I have no idea what you are on about there meaty.

These are bonds available to any tom dick and somchai over the counter at any bank. I've seen the ads for them the last time i walked into the bank in mid december.

I'm no bond expert but the interest rate will be determined when the MOF issues the bonds insitutional market, presumably on the 5th by the OP, at which point the banks will pass on that rate less their cut.

My secretary was hardly one of the elites, she just liked buying bonds, as does your wife

[manarak]

I've also heard about these bonds in past years.

Understand it as they have a prize draw each month as well as pay interest on maturity.

Never looked into further at the time, but if someone has more details, please share.

i to with knowledge of bonds,never been involved with them.wife is going in to the banks to try and find out who will be authorized to sell them.

as for a prize draw each month the only ones that i know about[we have 4,000tickets] are a 3yr.investment with the thai gov.savings bank. there is a draw on the 16th.of each month.you get a fixed % for 1yr.2yrs.and 3yrs.plus any winnings which are non taxable.

WHERE ARE CM.HELP

anyone interested in these bonds dont be suprised if your bank staff knows nothing about them,the wife went into one of the big three and they new nutting.the other banks said to go in at the end of the month.

555

Frontdesks' knowledge of financial products is nearly zero everywhere in the world.

I see it as a benefit if the frontdesks can't explain - in western countries they recite the sales pitch they learn, but still don't know anything but try to sell them to you anyway.

That's a job for honest financial advisors.

The first step is to get hold of the prospect - if the bond is to be made available to foreign investors, there should be an English version of it.

The prospect is the document explaining everything about the bond issue, redemption plan, coupon payments, etc.

To all investors: If you don't understand the prospect, then the investment decision should not be yours to make - find a honest advisor you trust, explain to him your financial situation and risk appetite and pay him adequately for his advice.

About the bond itself - all I know is 4%, 10 years, Thai Sovereign and lottery redemption.

My opinion is that 4% is not a high interest.Also, I don't know about the liquidity of the bond after issue - will it be traded on the Thai exchange and have market makers been appointed?

As was already said in this thread, investment in Thai stocks will probably be far more profitable.

Also I have to agree with Neversure that the investment might be risky for tourists of for people whose life center is not in Thailand and therefore calculate their yield in another currency than Thai baht - there might be significant variance in both directions.

I would rather invest in stocks - but hey, the Swiss Central Bank recently introduced negative interest rates !

[meatboy]

yes samran unless you have a brown nose we peasants wont get a look in.

I have no idea what you are on about there meaty.

These are bonds available to any tom dick and somchai over the counter at any bank. I've seen the ads for them the last time i walked into the bank in mid december.

I'm no bond expert but the interest rate will be determined when the MOF issues the bonds insitutional market, presumably on the 5th by the OP, at which point the banks will pass on that rate less their cut.

My secretary was hardly one of the elites, she just liked buying bonds, as does your wife

hey mate havent you ever heard the saying[ a brown nose] its the noses of those people that like to lick the arse of them in power.

last time the wife tried to buy some gov.bonds at bbk.bank they told her they all went in 20minutes.

trouble for us would be,we have never had any dealings with kasikorn,so there wont be any under the counter

KEEP FOR ME

[uptheos]

IMO the country is still not stable enough to ties money up for 10 years at 4% minus tax.

You are taking a very long term risk for poor interest (considering the situation).

[samran]

yes samran unless you have a brown nose we peasants wont get a look in.

I have no idea what you are on about there meaty.

These are bonds available to any tom dick and somchai over the counter at any bank. I've seen the ads for them the last time i walked into the bank in mid december.

I'm no bond expert but the interest rate will be determined when the MOF issues the bonds insitutional market, presumably on the 5th by the OP, at which point the banks will pass on that rate less their cut.

My secretary was hardly one of the elites, she just liked buying bonds, as does your wife

hey mate havent you ever heard the saying[ a brown nose] its the noses of those people that like to lick the arse of them in power.

last time the wife tried to buy some gov.bonds at bbk.bank they told her they all went in 20minutes.

trouble for us would be,we have never had any dealings with kasikorn,so there wont be any under the counter

KEEP FOR ME

Of course I've heard off the saying...

No doubt the bonds are popular with Thai retail investors. Like anything else, try and get in early if you want them that much...

[meatboy]

here it is the bonds are named "LETS BE HAPPY"

over 10yrs.first lot, 3yrs x 3%

4-7yrs x4%

8-10yrs x 5%

maximum invest.2million bht.

available to granny,grandad,aunty,uncle,and anyone else who got 2million bht.

[Tep]

These bonds are to cover debt the Thai government has for the rice scheme. This debt isn't carried on Thailand's books as national debt because with head planted firmly in sand it pretends it has collateral to cover the loans. We all know that's ridiculous for two reasons. The government borrowed the money and paid way more for the rice than its worth, and much of the rice is missing or rotten. If that weren't the case they'd just sell the rice and pay off the loans.

In the meantime the Ag Bank is technically bankrupt if anyone honest audited it. Those auditors would mark the rice to market and show what it's really worth as a ratio of the loans in the Ag Bank's "revolving fund." The rice value would be a tiny fraction of the amount owed to the bank and the Ag Bank would have to charge that loan off as a loss.

So here come the guys on white horses with another scheme. Get the little people who don't know anything to collectively lend them billions to pay off the bank before its true balance sheet becomes common news.

The Thai government doesn't show this debt as national debt even though it's obvious they have to find the money to cover it and they don't have it.

Some people haven't even been paid for their rice or for their new car scheme rebates. And now they want to go out there ten years and bet they'll be paid back for bailing out the rice scheme losses which amount to at least 700 billion baht?

You persist in commenting on Thailand's state agencies with no understanding, data or information. The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) is not bankrupt. BAAC is a state owned enterprise supervised by the Fiscal Policy Office (FPO) and State Enterprise Policy Office (SEPO). It is classified as a Specialised Financial Institution (SFI) and acts as a direct policy tool of the government. As such it is explicitly guaranteed by the government. It cannot go bankrupt. Since the sovereign debt rating for the Thai government is BAA1 according to Moody's http://countryeconomy.com/ratings/thailand and state enterprises are rated equivalent to the government, then BAAC's credit rating is quite strong.

BAAC, like all Thailand's state agencies are audited by the Office of the Auditor General (OAG). There are many issues about the audit system in Thailand. I have discussed these in depth directly with former Auditors General. The OAG's honesty in auditing state agencies is not one of these issues.

You may see the audited financial statements of BAAC for 2013 at http://www.baac.or.th/baac_en/content-report.php?content_id=000131&content_group=0002&content_group_sub=0003&inside=1

You may see the State Enterprise Review (SER) for BAAC done by SEPO for 2013 at http://www.sepo.go.th/state-enterprise-review-ser/state-enterprise-review-ser-2557-2.htm

Please provide evidence that the Thai government does not show all debts in its reporting as required under standard GFMIS procedures.

For bond information, you can see notifications of future auctions and results of previous auctions at http://www.thaibma.or.th/PriceYield.html

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread the current Finance Minister is a debt expert having established and led the Public Debt Management Office www.pdmo.go.th since before its formal creation in the October 2002 government reorganisation. This is the guy on the white horse that the government needs to fund its programs which is why he was appointed Deputy Minister of Finance by the 2006 Coup Government and Finance Minister by the 2014 Coup Government. Retail bond issues have been very popular with the general public for many years given the low savings rates and historic lack of alternative investment instruments for retail savers. Debt raised in this manner has been an integral part of the government's funding program since the 90's.

If you wish to comment on matters relating to Thailand's state agencies please inform yourself of the policy details and facts.