Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[jdinasia]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

You missed out the Bit.........between but ... they........since that date back in early October when our clients were still suffering from their ordeal at the hands of the RTP, our investigation has moved forward and now we have witnesses and proof that .......

I didn't miss that at all.

The conspiracy theorists have indeed missed that the case moved forward.

You are right when you said........"The conspiracy theorists have indeed missed that the case moved forward"..............whilst the majority of posters on here are now discussing the press conference of yesterday you are still discussing confessions that were recanted months ago........................The majority of the posters are focused on people that they want to be guilty. Not on the facts

[Willy Eckerslike]

Nothing new here

I believe this thread has probably ran it's course as the two accused no longer require Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's intervention as the Myanmar Government have now stated they believe the two accused to be innocent....

[007cableguy]

I see one of the glee club is still around but seems to be avoiding the main and current thread!........Keep those blinkers on!

[jimmybkk]

Remember the blond hair that was hair found in Hannah's hand and then it was said that the tests on the hair were inconclusive? Well, there was a murder case in the UK in 2002 and the victim was found with hair in her hand which had been placed there by the killer. In 2006 an expert was able to determine the following based on his analysis of the hair:

"According to Dr. Black, he and his team were able to determine that the strands of hair represented nine months' growth and belonged to a person who lived in the United Kingdom. The person, however, had traveled abroad on two occasions, and had changed their diet twice in the three months prior to the hair being cut. According to a Dorset Police document, the person in question had traveled to "the Valencia-to-Almeria area of eastern Spain and/or the Marseille-to-Perpignan area of southern France for up to six days," approximately eleven weeks before the strands were cut. Afterward, the person visited an urban area of Tampa, Florida., for eight days, approximately two to two and a half weeks before the hair was cut."

(http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/hair_in_hand_murders/5.html)

I would suggest Dr. Stuart Black or someone with similar skills be asked to take a look at the hair found in Hannah's hand, assuming it hasn't been thrown in the trash or "misplaced"..

[wellred]

I know it's off topic but could people here please consider others when quoting? Honestly the Russian doll effect here is a nightmare sometimes. I'm obviously not trying to tell the mods how to do their job but a rule of no more than 2 quotes should be implemented. Would make things so much tidy.

[boomerangutang]

So, all 3 confessions were false?

The first 'confession' was contrived and under duress. Note, the B2 mentioned using the broken bottle, even though no official except the deputized pancake vendor mentioned that. And the pancake vendor was the one person the B2 said they were most afraid of - stemming from their traumatic experience at the inquisition. The HRC commissioners were repeatedly turned down by Thai officials, when asking to look in to the scenario around the first confession. Plus, if there is a video of that, we (and the defense team) aren't going to be able to see it.

The 2nd confession, a day or 2 later, was again facing stern-faced older Thai men. The B2 were probably still spooked by their hairy experience hours earlier with stern-faced older Thai men.

Note: in neither 'confession' mentioned above - did the B2 have attorneys. There is no 'Miranda' in Thailand. And Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder. One the one hand, a rich well-connected 20 yr old can refuse to be DNA tested. On the other hand, poor non-connected Burmese don't have that option. They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match. Second time, it supposedly matched, though under very dubious circumstances.

The 3rd so-called 'confession' to Burmese attorneys is in doubt. Even so, the attorneys came away from that meeting claiming the B2 were innocent.

[AleG]

So, all 3 confessions were false?

The first 'confession' was contrived and under duress. Note, the B2 mentioned using the broken bottle, even though no official except the deputized pancake vendor mentioned that. And the pancake vendor was the one person the B2 said they were most afraid of - stemming from their traumatic experience at the inquisition. The HRC commissioners were repeatedly turned down by Thai officials, when asking to look in to the scenario around the first confession. Plus, if there is a video of that, we (and the defense team) aren't going to be able to see it.

The 2nd confession, a day or 2 later, was again facing stern-faced older Thai men. The B2 were probably still spooked by their hairy experience hours earlier with stern-faced older Thai men.

Note: in neither 'confession' mentioned above - did the B2 have attorneys. There is no 'Miranda' in Thailand. And Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder. One the one hand, a rich well-connected 20 yr old can refuse to be DNA tested. On the other hand, poor non-connected Burmese don't have that option. They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match. Second time, it supposedly matched, though under very dubious circumstances.

The 3rd so-called 'confession' to Burmese attorneys is in doubt. Even so, the attorneys came away from that meeting claiming the B2 were innocent.

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

[stephen terry]

So, all 3 confessions were false?

The first 'confession' was contrived and under duress. Note, the B2 mentioned using the broken bottle, even though no official except the deputized pancake vendor mentioned that. And the pancake vendor was the one person the B2 said they were most afraid of - stemming from their traumatic experience at the inquisition. The HRC commissioners were repeatedly turned down by Thai officials, when asking to look in to the scenario around the first confession. Plus, if there is a video of that, we (and the defense team) aren't going to be able to see it.

The 2nd confession, a day or 2 later, was again facing stern-faced older Thai men. The B2 were probably still spooked by their hairy experience hours earlier with stern-faced older Thai men.

Note: in neither 'confession' mentioned above - did the B2 have attorneys. There is no 'Miranda' in Thailand. And Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder. One the one hand, a rich well-connected 20 yr old can refuse to be DNA tested. On the other hand, poor non-connected Burmese don't have that option. They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match. Second time, it supposedly matched, though under very dubious circumstances.

The 3rd so-called 'confession' to Burmese attorneys is in doubt. Even so, the attorneys came away from that meeting claiming the B2 were innocent.

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

No it doesn't make it true, but that's what the first RTP general reported on the initial tests that all possible suspects were cleared. Refer back to the news report about 200 posts previously on this thread. There is also a picture of the B2 waiting in a testing queue, see CSI link. The samples were sent to BKK who farmed out a proportion to 5 Chiang Mai hospitals; that has also been reported in a news item.

So I would reason that Boom is not falsifying information. Maybe the RTP General was...and maybe his timely promotion saw a more honest General who immediately re-tested the B2 positive. Case solved.

[AleG]

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

No it doesn't make it true, but that's what the first RTP general reported on the initial tests that all possible suspects were cleared. Refer back to the news report about 200 posts previously on this thread. There is also a picture of the B2 waiting in a testing queue, see CSI link. The samples were sent to BKK who farmed out a proportion to 5 Chiang Mai hospitals; that has also been reported in a news item.

So I would reason that Boom is not falsifying information. Maybe the RTP General was...and maybe his timely promotion saw a more honest General who immediately re-tested the B2 positive. Case solved.

I'm not going to go through this again, you go and read the rebuttals to that misinformation.

Long story short, they conflated a report of one group of Burmese men being cleared with the actual suspects having been teste AND cleared.

I'm not going to argue the point again unless you bring back a citation stating unequivocally that the men currently on trial were tested and the results of the test gave a negative match BEFORE they were arrested.

[berybert]

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

No it doesn't make it true, but that's what the first RTP general reported on the initial tests that all possible suspects were cleared. Refer back to the news report about 200 posts previously on this thread. There is also a picture of the B2 waiting in a testing queue, see CSI link. The samples were sent to BKK who farmed out a proportion to 5 Chiang Mai hospitals; that has also been reported in a news item.

So I would reason that Boom is not falsifying information. Maybe the RTP General was...and maybe his timely promotion saw a more honest General who immediately re-tested the B2 positive. Case solved.

I'm not going to go through this again, you go and read the rebuttals to that misinformation.

Long story short, they conflated a report of one group of Burmese men being cleared with the actual suspects having been teste AND cleared.

I'm not going to argue the point again unless you bring back a citation stating unequivocally that the men currently on trial were tested and the results of the test gave a negative match BEFORE they were arrested.

You know this for a fact because you were there ?

[thailandchilli]

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

No it doesn't make it true, but that's what the first RTP general reported on the initial tests that all possible suspects were cleared. Refer back to the news report about 200 posts previously on this thread. There is also a picture of the B2 waiting in a testing queue, see CSI link. The samples were sent to BKK who farmed out a proportion to 5 Chiang Mai hospitals; that has also been reported in a news item.

So I would reason that Boom is not falsifying information. Maybe the RTP General was...and maybe his timely promotion saw a more honest General who immediately re-tested the B2 positive. Case solved.

I'm not going to go through this again, you go and read the rebuttals to that misinformation.

Long story short, they conflated a report of one group of Burmese men being cleared with the actual suspects having been teste AND cleared.

I'm not going to argue the point again unless you bring back a citation stating unequivocally that the men currently on trial were tested and the results of the test gave a negative match BEFORE they were arrested.

Thats your opinion, that's not the opinion of most others on this forum including myself. Just too hard to believe this is not the case. I would hazard a guess that this is also a reason why the UK authorities wanted independent testing of the DNA.

[stephen terry]

"They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. It does tell though that you are perfectly happy to use false information in your arguments.

No it doesn't make it true, but that's what the first RTP general reported on the initial tests that all possible suspects were cleared. Refer back to the news report about 200 posts previously on this thread. There is also a picture of the B2 waiting in a testing queue, see CSI link. The samples were sent to BKK who farmed out a proportion to 5 Chiang Mai hospitals; that has also been reported in a news item.

So I would reason that Boom is not falsifying information. Maybe the RTP General was...and maybe his timely promotion saw a more honest General who immediately re-tested the B2 positive. Case solved.

I'm not going to go through this again, you go and read the rebuttals to that misinformation.

Long story short, they conflated a report of one group of Burmese men being cleared with the actual suspects having been teste AND cleared.

I'm not going to argue the point again unless you bring back a citation stating unequivocally that the men currently on trial were tested and the results of the test gave a negative match BEFORE they were arrested.

I haven't read any rebuttals that indicate anything other than the B2 were among the suspects being tested (with a picture as evidence) and those were cleared of any involvement. It's a moot point now that they have been indicted as not being cleared, and it's up to the defence to prove otherwise.

[AleG]

I'm not going to go through this again, you go and read the rebuttals to that misinformation.

Long story short, they conflated a report of one group of Burmese men being cleared with the actual suspects having been teste AND cleared.

I'm not going to argue the point again unless you bring back a citation stating unequivocally that the men currently on trial were tested and the results of the test gave a negative match BEFORE they were arrested.

You know this for a fact because you were there ?

Why don't you ask boomerangutang that question?

After all he is the one stating "They were tested twice. First time, their DNA didn't match.", the burden of proof is on him to support his claim.

He didn't and he couldn't before, still makes the same claim; so much for wanting to find the truth...

[boomerangutang]

100 to 200 Burmese migrants were tested (while one of the prime suspects was avoiding being tested). ALL THOSE MIGRANTS WERE CLEARED by RTP. None had matching DNA. There is no reasonable way the B2 or B3 weren't among that initial group, because the B3 would have been among the people most sought after. And, as some have noticed, the B2 were shown in a queue of guys being DNA tested, in that initial batch. I repeat: All were cleared. If AleG wants to argue it to death, that's his choice. It merely shows how desperate he is to nail the B2 which, in turn, further clears those who really should be prime suspects.

[AleG]

100 to 200 Burmese migrants were tested (while one of the prime suspects was avoiding being tested). ALL THOSE MIGRANTS WERE CLEARED by RTP. None had matching DNA. There is no reasonable way the B2 or B3 weren't among that initial group, because the B3 would have been among the people most sought after. And, as some have noticed, the B2 were shown in a queue of guys being DNA tested, in that initial batch. I repeat: All were cleared. If AleG wants to argue it to death, that's his choice. It merely shows how desperate he is to nail the B2 which, in turn, further clears those who really should be prime suspects.

Up to 200 hundred being tested about one week before the arrest, no citation that the results came back with a negative match for the suspects before the arrest. You can't back your claim up, give it up already.

[boomerangutang]

100 to 200 Burmese migrants were tested (while one of the prime suspects was avoiding being tested). ALL THOSE MIGRANTS WERE CLEARED by RTP. None had matching DNA. There is no reasonable way the B2 or B3 weren't among that initial group, because the B3 would have been among the people most sought after. And, as some have noticed, the B2 were shown in a queue of guys being DNA tested, in that initial batch. I repeat: All were cleared. If AleG wants to argue it to death, that's his choice. It merely shows how desperate he is to nail the B2 which, in turn, further clears those who really should be prime suspects.

Up to 200 hundred being tested about one week before the arrest, no citation that the results came back with a negative match for the suspects before the arrest. You can't back your claim up, give it up already.

There was a blanket claim, by your beloved RTP, that none of the Burmese migrants tested matched DNA from victims. I know that sort of statistic annoys you to no end, but that's what the RTP claimed. Look it up, or don't. If you want to stay fixated with doing all you can to shield the Headman's people, that's your choice.

[greenchair]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

No speculation in my post. Just cannot link to the source published in Thai and English.

But the cherry picking remark was to the attempt to diminish the fact that their own lawyers stated that they confessed.

Really, you honestly believe the B2 lawyers came out and told the world they had confessed the the murders? Exactly how many defense lawyers do you know that would do that? Wether the B2 confessed to them or not?

Same goes for the human rights guy, there to protect their rights, why would he do that?

Think about that for a minute.

BTW this supposed confession happened on the 7th, I believe these two kids where finally brought to a police station on the 2nd, they had no council from the time of arrest/interrogation until then?

I am pretty sure I read reports they actually didnt receive council until after the 10th of October.

Yes, indeed I believe that the lawyers admitted publicly their clients confessed to them.

It was announced in 3 different languages

Yes, the b2 did confess many times. It was already explained, they were threatened and intimidated. They did not trust anyone who went to interview them. Remember the translator who lied and said he was from the embassy. The one who slapped them. The boys only told truth when their parents were brought to them. As it turns out. That was the safest thing for them to do .

[boomerangutang]

Yes, the b2 did confess many times. It was already explained, they were threatened and intimidated. They did not trust anyone who went to interview them. Remember the translator who lied and said he was from the embassy. The one who slapped them. The boys only told truth when their parents were brought to them. As it turns out. That was the safest thing for them to do .

Allow me to re-write your initial sentence, "Yes, the b2 did confess initially, very likely under threat of torture. They may have confessed one or two added times immediately afterwards, but it's not clear."

It's very common, in Thailand for authorities, when they get hold of suspects accused of serious crimes, to say the following: "We know you did it. You confess now, and you get a lenient sentence. If you don't confess, and you're found guilty in a court (which you will be), you'll get the death penalty."

Simple choice, at the time, for two scared penniless kids with no lawyers, and no knowledge of law, when faced with a roomful of stern-faced older men with fists clenched: Confess and live in prison, or say 'not guilty' and die. The 3rd Burmese guy probably knew an inkling about the law, and wisely didn't confess. It pissed off Thai officials, but they had to let him go, even though, of all 3 Burmese suspects, the 3rd resembles the man in the KT cctv footage the most - though even he doesn't look nearly as much like the cctv image as Nomsod.

Edited December 21, 2014 by boomerangutang

[CharlieH]

Off topic post removed:

Please stay on the topic of the thread. That means addressing the issues presented in the post, not in making comments to or about other posters. Doing so is off-topic and your post will be removed and you could face a suspension.

[AleG]

removed

Oh, nevermind...

Edited December 21, 2014 by AleG

[boomerangutang]

removed

Oh, nevermind...

The most insightful (not inciteful) statement you've made in awhile.

[boomerangutang]

The majority of the posters are focused on people that they want to be guilty. Not on the facts

We're trying to discern what is useful info. And yes, you're nearly correct: the majority or us are focusing on those who should be prime suspects. However, we've got to address the issues surrounding the scapegoats, because Thai officials have thrust the B2 in the headlines. What we'd really like is for Thai officials to do their jobs. Granted, Thai cops aren't trained to do professional crime investigation, so we don't expect the sort of quality investigation we'd expect from the French or Americans (I've dropped the Brits from that comparison, because they've been 'out to lunch' on the Ko Tao investigation). Perhaps Thai investigators don't have tools as their European counterparts (they already admitted they can't properly process DNA in Thailand), yet foreign better-equipped officials would be glad to assist the Thais in the Ko Tao investigation. Yet, Thai officialdom has made it clear it doesn't want professional outside help. The reason fits with all else they've said and done since the replacement head cop showed up in the 3rd week of the investigation: Thais are dead-set against any evidence which might implicate the Headman's people.

[45slap]

I'm not the biggest guy in the world, but these two don't look capable of taking anyone over the age of twelve out, weapon or not.

[JLCrab]

Response (maybe) from ASSK courtesy UK (1965):

I see that worried look upon your face,

You've got your troubles, I got mine.

You need some sympathy, well so do I,

You've got your troubles, I got mine.

And it must seem to you, my friend

That I ain't got no pity for you,

Well, that ain't true ...

I'd help another place, another time,

You've got your troubles, I got mine.

,

Edited January 10, 2015 by JLCrab